TZR Forum

TZR Specific => 3XV => Topic started by: Steveog on February 02, 2018, 08:51:35 PM

Title: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 02, 2018, 08:51:35 PM
I apologize in advance, as I'm sure this topic is covered somewhere here, but after many dead-end searches, I decided to accept the slings and arrows of distention and pose the the question once again. What are the details of dereresricting a Japanese 1991, 3XV? I am only wanting to bring the TZR-R up to Canadian or European standards. This model was never imported through Yamaha dealers here in the states, but as the 1991 Model is now over 25 years old, it is considered "classic", eligible for legal purchase and my team partner has one on a truck heading our way as I write this.

No real insight on details of derescriction anywhere on internet (that I could find).

I've heard we need a different black box and probably pipes, but that's only hearsay from an old TZ racer we know here.

Please help. 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 02, 2018, 09:29:28 PM
Minimum you need is pipes
Zeeltronic is a plug and play benefit
SP air box mod

Then you can go SP porting and SP crank (still available from Yamaha)

That's it

Have a look at my trials and tribulations (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=2317.0)

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 02, 2018, 09:57:26 PM
Mellorp -

Much Thanks. Huge Help.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: ybk on February 03, 2018, 12:33:52 AM
Porting, cdi and pipes. Have a look at this old archive thread for extra info..

http://pure2strokespirit.net/archive1/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboardd603.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=305
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 03, 2018, 09:01:07 AM
Porting, cdi and pipes. Have a look at this old archive thread for extra info..

http://pure2strokespirit.net/archive1/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboardd603.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=305
NSR World of Shite work out of GT Motorcycles. I know of at least one 2 stroke they have destroyed on a dyno .... You have been warned

BTW my Martin77 pipes made the biggest difference. You don't lose much lower down but give heaps more at the top end. You can dial most of the mid range back in with a programmable ignition. Rev counter can be adjusted to read correctly. I set the rev limiter on the zeeltronic at 12500 but still rev it based on the rev counter reading rather than until it splutters. I do have some (not much) mechanical sympathy
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 03, 2018, 10:06:24 AM

NSR World of Shite work out of GT Motorcycles. I know of at least one 2 stroke they have destroyed on a dyno .... You have been warned


Have you ever used the dyno at GT, Phil? And can you evidence that the dyno operator specifically was the cause of the failure you describe above? If not, your allegation is a bit unreasonable, isn't it?

In my own experience (quite a few hours on that dyno) the dyno service offered by Steve at GT was first rate, I have to say  :).

Anyway, yes, for the OP:

1. SP-ish porting
2. Pipes to match
3. Ignition to match

are the basic ingredients 8).
 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 03, 2018, 07:38:18 PM

NSR World of Shite work out of GT Motorcycles. I know of at least one 2 stroke they have destroyed on a dyno .... You have been warned

And can you evidence that the dyno operator specifically was the cause of the failure you describe above?


Yes and yes. The engine was built by them, and when taken back as it wasn't running correctly destroyed on the dyno. The owner was not allowed to witness the dyno runs.  They then denied any responsibility and gave the broken bike back to the owner blaming him for the problems......
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 03, 2018, 08:32:11 PM

Yes and yes. The engine was built by them, and when taken back as it wasn't running correctly destroyed on the dyno. The owner was not allowed to witness the dyno runs.  They then denied any responsibility and gave the broken bike back to the owner blaming him for the problems......

Blimey! I find that really surprising, Phil. GT's Dyno bloke Steve has always been an entirely sound bloke in my own experience.  What actually happened to the motor?
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 03, 2018, 10:03:41 PM
Thanks to you all for your expertise, insight and knowledge. Huge help in narrowing down our goals with this bike.

The TZR we're getting does have aftermarket pipes and we were told it was derestricted, but based on what's been said here, I doubt that it has SP barrels or has been ported to SP specs. I'm getting the build list, so can check the black box, too.

Concerning dyno pulls, we're fortunate to have a Dynojet here in Southern Indiana. The shop is owned by an WERA Superbike Expert. He races a new R-1. His parts guy raced TZ's back in the 70-80's. Believe we're in good hands. We plan a baseline session, right after shake down start and run.

Is there such a bible as an English version of the TZR 3XV Service Manual? All I can find is the promise of such a thing on "pay for" sites (they say its free and only want my email. That makes me nervous) or a Japanese text version.

Thanks again, gentlemen.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 03, 2018, 10:42:16 PM
No, there's no English language manual I'm afraid- the 3XV was only ever sold new in Japan. You'll find links to the Japanese manuals and parts books in the resources section. Main measurments, specs and part numbers etc. are in universal 'English' script so it's fairly easy to work with them really.

Good idea to get a base dyno reading as soon as you can. That way you will be able to clearly measure the effect of any mods as and when you make them  (-P).
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 03, 2018, 10:49:45 PM
Thanks, Warwick. Validation on dyno helps. Seems a translated version of the service manual might be a great entrepreneurial exercise.

Do you mind taking a look at the pic of our TZR chassis and help me identify the brand of pipes. Anyone else (Mellorp?) please offer an opinion.

Appreciation in advance.

Steve

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 03, 2018, 11:08:31 PM
Not 100% sure about the pipes from that pic. Are they stainless steel? If so, I'd think they're probably Jim Lomas?

 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: ybk on February 04, 2018, 12:26:07 AM
JL has that extra kink on the lower pipe I think, could be DFR? Paging Dan for confirmation. :))

Please document your dyno results here when you get round to it (-P)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Smithy3XVC on February 04, 2018, 07:01:09 AM
Look very much like Dog Fight Racing to me.

These are the stainless versions:
http://www.alphin.jp/muffler/dogfight/stntzr250rs.jpg

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 04, 2018, 08:50:50 PM
I think Karl and Smithy are probably on the ball here - I'd forgotten that Dogfights are available in Stainless too. Silencers certainly look like Dogfight.

An old thread here with a pic of the Lomas pipes for comparison:

http://pure2strokespirit.net/archive1/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboard0e5a.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=328

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 04, 2018, 09:39:48 PM
Thanks again, guys. Learning a lot.

I've got a call in for the entire build out list on our TZR. Though we had it, but Nooooo. That means we have no idea if an aftermarket black box mod accompanies the Dog Fight Pipes.My partner made all the business deals and wrote the check. The bike came from a specialized importer, Moto 2 Imports. They have a good reputation and multitudes of Japanese 250 2T's (and parts). All flavors and brands, so long as they are over 25 years old. They offered to spec out our '91 3XV with just about anything, but we elected to stay mostly stock, as the bike sat. (stopped at new Michelins and Stainless Brake Lines)

The bike is scheduled to arrive this week. Weather here might preclude a test ride. Expecting snow, but should be around 50F on Thursday (2/08/18).

We have a big football game in the US, today. "American Football". The TV coverage has been on since 10:00am CST. Kick-off is 5:18pm. Dreaming of the TZR is far more entertaining.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 04, 2018, 10:44:27 PM
Thanks again, guys. Learning a lot.

I've got a call in for the entire build out list on our TZR. Though we had it, but Nooooo. That means we have no idea if an aftermarket black box mod accompanies the Dog Fight Pipes.My partner made all the business deals and wrote the check. The bike came from a specialized importer, Moto 2 Imports. They have a good reputation and multitudes of Japanese 250 2T's (and parts). All flavors and brands, so long as they are over 25 years old. They offered to spec out our '91 3XV with just about anything, but we elected to stay mostly stock, as the bike sat. (stopped at new Michelins and Stainless Brake Lines)

The bike is scheduled to arrive this week. Weather here might preclude a test ride. Expecting snow, but should be around 50F on Thursday (2/08/18).

We have a big football game in the US, today. "American Football". The TV coverage has been on since 10:00am CST. Kick-off is 5:18pm. Dreaming of the TZR is far more entertaining.

You me 8/2/2018. I wouldn't want to wait until August

Not sure how CST relates to proper time i.e GMT

We have a proper game. It's called Rugby, no helmets, no shoulder pads, no time outs,  no hand wipe towels, only one set of players not 1 team to attack and 1 to defend. And football (in the rest of the universe) involves kicking a round ball.

At least you have the TZR in common with the rest of the world. Go Team New Eagles or something like that buddy :-)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 04, 2018, 11:34:53 PM
I'm curious if moto2 is as legit as they claim to be they have zero widely known rep for what they claim. So far have not seen anyone post they bought a tzr for them. They only been mentioned on eBay ads and rare sport bikes forsale. Not a lot of follow up after purchase owner posts on here say 6 months later after owning to see what quality of bikes they are selling at thier prices.

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 05, 2018, 09:00:48 PM
@ Mellorp - When I was in 9-12th grades in school, we played American Football with no pads or helmets. I honor Rugby. Its European Football which I find infinitely boring.

Long ago, we Americans decided there was a better way to do most things. Month/Day/Year? Which side of the road? Time zones relative to our country? We fought to rid ourselves of a monarchy. There are six of our flags on the moon...placed there almost 50 years ago...using American sized nuts and bolts, measuring temps in Fahrenheit and distances in inches, feet and miles. 

That said, as a student of History, "The Battle of Britain" remains the most inspiring action of WWII. My favorite music of the 60's and 70' was most all English with YES, King Crimson and Cream being among the vinyls I still cherish. My son (41) is named Sean (after Sean Connery). Oh, I can't properly honor England without mentioning Bombay Sapphire.

When one of us is threatened, England and The US stand together, but still argue over beer.

Getting to know you and the TZR brethren on this site has been enlightening. We have our differences, but we almost share a common language and we definitely share a love of "Motorcycles" (not motorbikes). Interestingly, as we defend our way, as the way, we turn to the Japanese for the best motorcycles. If you'd like, I can give you the history of Modern Japanese industry following WWII. But, would rather make a friend with whom I can disagree, than start another a Facebook-like discussion. All my best, mate.

@ SeaR1ck - Your perceptions may be accurate. I hope not. So far, Moto 2 Imports have been very direct and honest in their dealing. Lots of pics and conversation. We'll get a video of the the TZR running before its put on the truck. (Shipment was delayed by my partner adding parts that needed to be installed.) One of the Premier Motorcycle Publications in the USA ran an feature on three of the 1991 Japanese Two-Stroke Sportbikes. The bikes were supplied by Moto 2 Imports. Please take a look. https://www.cycleworld.com/250cc-two-stroke-sportbike-motorcycle-review-comparison-test  We're buying the TZR "as is"...meaning that "it comes to us as advertised", there is no warranty, so long-term follow-up is not part of the deal. In the US, if you don't bring a question or problem back to dealer, they usually do not offer unsolicited follow-up. When we need parts, there are other sources with which can compare prices. Moto 2 is located in the US, so that might explain why you in England don't hear much from them. For us, its a matter of perceived trust. A dealer has a business to protect and would seem to be driven by capitalism to provide that which keeps customers calling. Thanks for your comment.



Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 05, 2018, 09:37:57 PM
I'm not from the UK I'm one of the few U.S. guys on here and I've been working on these jdm bikes since 2003. I have rebuilt 12 of these jdm two strokes I know what kind of gremlins they hide.  Just because it runs doesn't mean it's rideable every single one that was fresh from Japan. Has always had parts that where corroded rubber bits that have dried up not just hoses. Even crank seals are suspect fork seals brake calipers seals bolts etc. Rust in the gas tanks.

Places like moto2 have only been importing these bikes in the last couple years. They always advertise them as needs nothing or turn key riders. They will be far from that you will see once you get it, it's easy to hide things in pics.

Remember japan is an island with marine layer air and a garage is a luxury many bikes don't see and the average owner doesn't work on thier bike.

I'm not trying to come across as attacking you personally just trying to give you a heads up on what your getting into what to expect. The guys on here who have experienced working on and restoring these bikes will agree with me.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 05, 2018, 09:50:24 PM
So noted SeaR1ick. Thanks for the heads up. For the record, our motor was promised to have been recently rebuilt. (Seals, bearings, gaskets). There's 11K on the clock.

You may have seen one of my earlier posts, wherein I spoke of rebuilding a 1986 Suzuki RM dirt bike. I agree completely that almost all grommets, hoses, seals etc. had to be replaced...not to mention mud for fork fluid. I'm still fighting a water pump seal.

Are you located anywhere near southern Indiana? We've got some good tech here, but no "hands dirty" experts on TZR's.

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 05, 2018, 10:01:01 PM
No I'm from Seattle myself I question the crank seals if it's an R or RS model. The crank center seal has been no longer available from Yamaha for awhile I just had a batch of them remanufactured that I sold to all of the forum members.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 05, 2018, 10:06:15 PM
So a bad center seal would probably mean one cylinder would smoke notably more than the other, Yes?

If you build out more new seals, no longer available, please let me know.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 05, 2018, 10:07:30 PM
@ Mellorp - When I was in 9-12th grades in school, we played American Football with no pads or helmets.

Long ago, we Americans decided there was a weird way to do most things. Month/Day/Year? Which side of the road? Time zones .

I only did secondary school 1st year to lower/upper 6th. Never got my head round what 12th grade or high school until my eldest was suddenly in year 7 !!! Weird

You will get used to (or dislike) my extreme levels of sarcasm. Hopefully you can take it all in good jest. I mean no harm. Enjoy the TZR and above all else thrash the living daylights out of it. It's what it was built for :-)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 05, 2018, 10:29:23 PM
No issues here, Mellorp. I too have fun with friendly banter, sarcasm, dark humor, etc.

Looking forward to twisting the fast handle. The last street two-stroke I had was a '72 Suzuki 380. The most fun was on a '71 X-6.

The weather here sucks. The delivery of the TZR has been delayed. But, the team I hate lost the "Super Bowl", so its a win.

Fortunately, I have no money in The US Stock Market.

Shiny Side Up
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 05, 2018, 10:42:18 PM
If the center seal was bad it would cause it to smoke bad. Look at my thread on the projects area. I'm currently going through a Yamaha TZM 150 I bought from Thailand that was a nos left over  from 1994.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 05, 2018, 10:53:53 PM
I read your thread on the inner seal since my last post. Good Stuff.

As I said, we're supposed to get a video of the bike, running.

I do visual effects work for Film and TV. 45 years experience. They can't fake a lack of smoke, then add back the appropriate smoke. At least not to my eyes.

It would be cheaper to have another fresh crank installed than attempt to doctor a video.

Thanks

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 07, 2018, 10:01:23 PM
SeaR1ick - I've seen the bike run on a dyno and smoke out put looks even from both pipes. This makes sense to me, as a fresh engine is probably jetted a bit rich and the oil pump adjusted up for proper run-in" during heat/cool cycling....not to mention build oil residue.

Your thoughts? In fact, anyone's thought?

Thanks
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 07, 2018, 10:10:30 PM
You don't want more oil in a fresh engine it just clogs the plugs and pipes. What you do need is proper running in procedure, heat cycles, then if you must a dyno to check on exhausts (lambada sensor).  Jet it as std. then change the jetting based on your tuning mods. Changing the jets on these things (in fact any road based 2stroke V twin) is a PITA
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 08, 2018, 12:09:03 AM
So did they swap the pistons? Running a bike on a fresh top end on a dyno without proper heat cycles is not good. Why the f are they doing That? I wouldn't put mine on a dyno unless it had a few hundred miles on the top end so as not damage it.

What all did they replace? They have documentation to back it up or even pics to show thier work?

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 08, 2018, 12:58:50 AM
Here's the communication from Moto 2: "We've been heat cycling the engine since last week and gave it a light run on the dyno today."

Sorry I wasn't more specific. The comments about the carbs being jetted rich,etc. were my conclusions, not facts reported by Moto 2. Moto 2 comment sounds as if this was the first time on a dyno.

Thanks to you and Mellorp for sticking with me as I ask somewhat ignorant questions about this bikes. Every piece of intel helps.

What do you think about Geko Imports-UK. Their comments about our goals have matched out very closely with this Forum. Here's their idea for future upgrades. "Either port the R cylinders and fit skimmed and re-profiled heads.... or better still fit SP cylinders & heads, race exhausts, if you can afford big 32 or 36mm carbs and a Sugo CDI. Make it breath and fire better. It's restricted by poor porting, low compression and retarded ignition."

Believe I read here that the Sugo Black Box was not programmable and Zeetronics was the Box of choice.



Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 08, 2018, 02:04:33 AM
Zeel is the way to go the old sugo boxes are pretty much obsolete now. The bigger carbs not easy to find especially the reed block manifolds that go with them they are not cheap.

If you want to be successful with owning the bike you do what many of us do and setup an account with a broker so you can buy used parts etc from Japan. Through Yahoo auctions japan and I would recommend buying parts from japan as well through like webike japan spelled web!ke.

The broker service I have been using for 10 years now is called Rinkya owned by American Japanese family. Thier service is excellent and they speak good English. Best of all they offer FedEx shipping instead of just post office. Which gets around post office restrictions on size or oily or gas related parts.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 08, 2018, 10:50:10 AM
You going round in circles

http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=5404.msg54795#msg54795
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 08, 2018, 06:11:16 PM
Yes, I am. But, I'm also gathering info from multiple sources, which mostly agree. I'm guessing you, as with SeaR1ck, disagree with Geko Imports, UK opinion on the Sugo Black Box.

I guess I'm also just so "F"ing jazzed about this bike that I can't stop talking about it to people such as you. Also, wanting to help my partner make good decisions. As I said, its his money, but my shop and our mutual desire for one more chance to get to the racetrack that makes us partners. That and a 40 year friendship. I sent him SeaR1ck's last post, trying to get him off of thinking about Sugo's Box.

For the record: We are going to follow the advice given here and our old TZ racer-friend: Ride it. Adjust suspension to taste. Get a baseline dyno pull. If all seem good, take it to the track in late April, then if we feel we need more HP, only at that point will we consider upgrades.   

Attached is a track map of a great facility that lives about 1.5 hours from us. It belongs to the National Corvette Museum. We've ridden this track last May @ California Superbike School. Smooth and clean. Their stock, rental BMW S1000RR eats up the Turns 3-5 just as you top out in 3rd. Should be a good test of the TZR.

Thanks to you and all for your help and patience.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 08, 2018, 07:42:16 PM
You see the 3xv from deftones it's listed as a 92 but it's really a 93 RS model. Sometimes in Japan the year the bike came out in the owners will says it's a 92.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 13, 2018, 10:04:55 PM
Gentlemen, I need help. The TZR is on a truck headed our way, but we need the length of the rear axle as measured from just outside the chain adjuster to the other side, so as to properly fit the bike into chocks mounted into our team's hauler. Too late to get that info from the dealer. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This is a stock '91 TZR 3XV (R Model)

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: ybk on February 13, 2018, 10:31:16 PM
Rough estimate measure while still in the bike the rear axle itself is around +- 335mm.  Sticks out on each side of the swingarm around 18mm.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 13, 2018, 10:51:12 PM
Many Thanks, ybk. I've forwarded your info to my partner.

You have just helped a couple of old guys get that much closer to getting the TZR into our team garage.

Steve

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 16, 2018, 02:58:41 AM
...The bigger carbs not easy to find especially the reed block manifolds that go with them they are not cheap.

Mikuni TMX carb's are an option - which I've gone with myself. I gave consideration to other options and discussed ideas with a couple of people - including Dan @ Gecko, but I decided that the TMX's were the best option for me (and they were available easily from a Mikuni reseller in Australia, which is pretty close to NZ where I live). They should be available through any Mikuni reseller.

Agreed re: the Manifolds - you need to hunt around to find them. I purchased mine from Gecko Motorcycles when Dan had some in stock. The biggest size ones fit my TMX35's perfectly.
I'm currently resolving a minor issue with the right side carburetor cable length, before testing the bike properly and checking jetting etc.
I'm following advice from Mikuni and setting the carb's up without power jets initially and I'll fit the power jets to the carb's later.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: maccas on February 16, 2018, 09:43:53 AM
TMX 35's don't fit 3xv SP carb rubbers without mods.

Their spigot is 40mm OD when it needs to be 44mm.

Dan
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Hoatso on February 16, 2018, 02:54:57 PM
I put a Zeel on my stock '91 R model and was very happy with the result. It runs and revs cleanly. It also removes the high-speed limitter and the kickstand switch.

Since it is programmable, you can tune it to optimize any mods like porting, pipes, compression, race gas, etc.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 16, 2018, 09:02:03 PM
TMX 35's don't fit 3xv SP carb rubbers without mods.
Their spigot is 40mm OD when it needs to be 44mm.
Dan

Errr - actually they do. I have  a set fitted to my bike right now using SP manifolds.
They fit perfectly - no mods required and the spigot diameter matches the manifolds perfectly.
Your comment re: the Spigot measurement is correct (http://www.mikunioz.com/shop/tm35-1-35mm-tmx-mikuni-carburetor-for-2-stroke-125cc-race-engines/) but in reality they match up fine. The manifolds on both the reed block and airbox sides fitted fine.

I actually discussed this Martin & Warwick from this forum just prior to ordering them.
I can prove it with measurements and photo's.

So yes - they are an option :)
Perhaps you should clarify what you meant regarding required modifications...?
Given my bike has its fairings off, it's easy enough for me to take photo's of them installed.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: maccas on February 16, 2018, 09:47:44 PM
Airbox side, yes that's the same as the 3xv big carbs.

I just don't see how you've closed up 4mm in diameter in the reed block rubbers? Surely the carbs were falling out of the rubbers?

Photo's would be good if you have time please.

Dan
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 17, 2018, 12:40:40 AM
Sure - I will take a couple of photo's over the next day or so.
Reed block manifolds were listed as being SP models from Gecko, but I can check the model numbers on the parts too.
...anyway - I'll take a couple of photos later and add them to this thread :)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 17, 2018, 01:17:35 AM
I've seen Lectron carbs on TZs. Can they be used on our '91 TZR (R).

We're not ready for bigger carbs, yet. Just curious.

Again thanks to all. You information is highly prized.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on February 17, 2018, 01:54:45 AM
Screw lectron carbs over hyped they are.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 18, 2018, 12:00:02 PM
Airbox side, yes that's the same as the 3xv big carbs.
I just don't see how you've closed up 4mm in diameter in the reed block rubbers? Surely the carbs were falling out of the rubbers?
Photo's would be good if you have time please.

A couple of photo's of the front (left hand) TMX-35 carb - showing the manifolds.
Note the install at the moment is temporary and the photo's have highlighted that my motor needs a good clean again.
I think your main query is answered by the reed block manifold retention screw needing to be fully tightened to get a secure fit.
(I did not take photos of the other carb as the dimensions of the manifolds are the same).
Any queries - feel free to ask. The duct tape on the carb cable is temporary too - I'm getting a custom cable for this side sorted this week.

Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Paul on February 18, 2018, 01:32:44 PM
No, there's no English language manual I'm afraid- the 3XV was only ever sold new in Japan. You'll find links to the Japanese manuals and parts books in the resources section. Main measurments, specs and part numbers etc. are in universal 'English' script so it's fairly easy to work with them really.

Good idea to get a base dyno reading as soon as you can. That way you will be able to clearly measure the effect of any mods as and when you make them  (-P).

The 3XV was sold new from Yamaha in South Africa. I never came across a english manual. You can get english TZ 4DP manuals here http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/4DP/index.php (http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/4DP/index.php) that help to some degree
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: maccas on February 18, 2018, 03:15:44 PM
Thanks for the pics. Just be wary that they might not be sealing very well on the carbs. I'd be looking for a slightly smaller clamp myself so that the rubber is definitely clamping on the carb rather than the clamp being fully tightened up like that. Just my opinion, if all works as is than fair enough  8)

Dan
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 18, 2018, 10:18:03 PM
No, there's no English language manual I'm afraid- the 3XV was only ever sold new in Japan. You'll find links to the Japanese manuals and parts books in the resources section. Main measurments, specs and part numbers etc. are in universal 'English' script so it's fairly easy to work with them really.

Good idea to get a base dyno reading as soon as you can. That way you will be able to clearly measure the effect of any mods as and when you make them  (-P).

The 3XV was sold new from Yamaha in South Africa. I never came across a english manual. You can get english TZ 4DP manuals here http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/4DP/index.php (http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/4DP/index.php) that help to some degree

You sure about that, Paul? Seems a very odd marketing decision if true (why the tiny SA market rather than the far more lucrative European market?)  Are you confusing the fairly ready availability of grey imports with official market bikes?  ?:-|
   
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Paul on February 19, 2018, 05:35:16 PM

You sure about that, Paul? Seems a very odd marketing decision if true (why the tiny SA market rather than the far more lucrative European market?)  Are you confusing the fairly ready availability of grey imports with official market bikes?  ?:-|
 

nope, i was in the army when i went down to our local dealer in durban and test rode a brand new 3xv with zero km.
i got 300m and turned around, it was crap! strangled and restricted. they were R22,000, same price as a new Fiat Uno.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Crank on February 19, 2018, 08:12:32 PM
No, there's no English language manual I'm afraid- the 3XV was only ever sold new in Japan. You'll find links to the Japanese manuals and parts books in the resources section. Main measurments, specs and part numbers etc. are in universal 'English' script so it's fairly easy to work with them really.

Good idea to get a base dyno reading as soon as you can. That way you will be able to clearly measure the effect of any mods as and when you make them  (-P).

The 3XV was sold new from Yamaha in South Africa. I never came across a english manual. You can get english TZ 4DP manuals here http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/4DP/index.php (http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/4DP/index.php) that help to some degree

Only the 3xv 1 was sold in SA.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 19, 2018, 10:38:23 PM
If the 3XV was an official market bike in an English speaking country you'd expect some English language model info, promo documents, manuals, dealer back-up docs etc, wouldn't you? I've never seen any of those at all? Are you sure the bikes coming into SA weren't just grey imports as they were in the rest of the world? Often these come in as used bikes, but there'd be nothing to stop an importer bringing in a brand new bike as a grey of course - some UK grey dealers used to do that at the height of the grey import market in the 90s in the UK. But that's not the same thing as an 'official' national model line up bike of course.

I'm a bit intrigued, I must say! You South African fellas got any links to Yamaha ZA model line-ups from the period showing the 3XV? It might be a way of tracking down a bit of useful official Yam English language documentation  (-P).
     
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Crank on February 20, 2018, 01:18:32 PM
Eddie may be able to shed some light on this as he recently sold a completely original and un-molested 3xv1 with log book and full service history from Linux Yamaha SA.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 20, 2018, 11:53:20 PM
Would love to have an English language manual. I just spent about an hour slugging through a Japanese Service Manual, looking for how to rid ourselves of the license plate bracket. No Joy. Can it be unbolted or is it molded into a rear sub assembly? On my 2004 R-1, the license plate bracket was molded in. On recent R-6's its a couple of quick release bolts.

Here's a shot of our completed bike in white primer. As you know, the license mount bracket is unneeded for a track only bike....and its butt ugly.

Thanks
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 21, 2018, 12:48:39 AM
Don't under any circumstances chop that rear mudguard
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 21, 2018, 01:22:53 AM
The whole thing can be removed easily enough - and the steel seat subframe it bolts to too (saves a useful bit of weight). You'll just need to make up a small bracket for the rear seat mounts, and re-think the CDI mounting arrangement as that bolts to the rear mudguard as stock. On my track bike the CDI lives where the oil tank used to be.

Or just hack the number plate bracket off with a hacksaw to piss Phil off!   :o ;D


Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 21, 2018, 08:45:27 AM


Or just hack the number plate bracket off with a hacksaw to piss Phil off!   :o ;D

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Paul on February 21, 2018, 11:42:27 AM
looks sweet, what silencers are those, i fancy a pair
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 21, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
Mellorp and Warrick - Thanks for your replies. One was very helpful, specifically the pic. You guys stay up late, yes? Warrick's post was after 1:30am. Again, Thanks.

Mellorp. Why NOT trim all the excess from a track-only bike that will never see the street in our hands. Well, I do live in a rural area, so a few shake down runs may take place near my property.

As it turns out, "Moto2 Imports" had another TZR they were prepping for a client who wanted a street bike, but it had the mod as described by Warrick. So, after a call from my partner, Tim Hope of Moto 2 agreed to trade the fender brackets and we won't personally need to raise a saw to our baby. At least not the fender/license bracket.

Paul - We've been told (by this forum and Moto 2 Imports) the pipes are Stainless from "Dog Fight". I'd be guessing...strongly, the silencers are standard issue.

They sound great on our TZR 3XV. Hear on Attachment. Good Luck. 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: ybk on February 22, 2018, 05:06:16 AM
Warrick's post was after 1:30am. Again, Thanks.

Mellorp. Why NOT trim all the excess from a track-only bike that will never see the street in our hands. Well, I do live in a rural area, so a few shake down runs may take place near my property. .


The forumís time zone is set to SA time so doesnt represent actual time of day of the poster (unless youíre in SA  ;) )

Years ago when these bikes were plentiful all the fenders got cut. Now that they are collector items an uncut fender is a rare thing (-P)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 22, 2018, 06:02:26 AM
Thanks, ybk - I get it. Appreciate the friendly justifications. Fortunately, the solution for us does not mean "hacking" on our TZR. We're only trading a modified version for our "stock" fender/license version. Somewhere there's a street legal TZR that is still a "collector", thanks to Moto 2 Imports.

That said, by retaining the stock configuration for the sake of history, means no mods at all. I know that's not the intention of your comment, but if the goal is a museum piece, that's cool. We want a reliable two-stoke GP experience. The TZR 3XV is as close as we'll ever get. Our bike is, cosmetically, already adulterated by racing body work and after market expansion chambers. Hope the 2T gods forgive us.

Consider all the P-51 Mustangs with RR Merlin engines still flying. An extreme few of those are still stock. Probably none, but those airplanes, stock or not go for millions ($$$). 

These TZR's are very expensive (comparatively) and will only inflate in value. Our bike would seem to maximizes the value of those who kept there's "bone stock". That's why I couldn't understand Mellorp's comment. Our bike was already very non-stock. What does one fender extension matter?

Appreciate your comment, though. It is part of our log book. You'e been very helpful.

Steve

PS - The time displacement between my location and the UK seems to be either +/- 6 or 7 hours. I traveled to Iraq in 2006 and the time difference was +/- 9 hours. Had to call my wife by 12pm CST or miss her, via being asleep. I simply appreciate that I'm getting feedback from the UK when the clock says, "you guys are on line after normal working hours".

 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: mellorp on February 22, 2018, 10:08:25 AM
These TZR's are very expensive (comparatively) and will only inflate in value. Our bike would seem to maximizes the value of those who kept there's "bone stock". That's why I couldn't understand Mellorp's comment. Our bike was already very non-stock. What does one fender extension matter?

Appreciate your comment, though. It is part of our log book. You'e been very helpful.

Steve

Bodywork/engine originality are 2 different things. There are plenty of chopped 3XV mudguards in the world. You can put a tail tidy on if you must.  A pristine mudguard can never be restored and you can't buy them new. IMO either remove it or leave it alone.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 22, 2018, 05:53:18 PM
Thanks. I get it, now. Your point is well made.

As you may have read, "no original TZR parts have been harmed in the making of our bike."

Because of your thinking, I'm now of the opinion that we should have taken the bike with the original tail section, modified our bike based on Warrick's suggestions and sold the "never to be made again" pieces on Ebay.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 23, 2018, 03:44:51 AM
Thanks for the pics. Just be wary that they might not be sealing very well on the carbs. I'd be looking for a slightly smaller clamp myself so that the rubber is definitely clamping on the carb rather than the clamp being fully tightened up like that. Just my opinion, if all works as is than fair enough  8)
Dan

thanks - the fit seems pretty snug as is - I've given them a good wiggle and attempted to remove them once tightened and they seem fine. But given your comment (and my large supply of gasket cement), I think I'll smear a bit of gasket cement around them when I re-fit them. Thanks for the comment :)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 23, 2018, 03:45:43 AM
The whole thing can be removed easily enough - and the steel seat subframe it bolts to too (saves a useful bit of weight). You'll just need to make up a small bracket for the rear seat mounts, and re-think the CDI mounting arrangement as that bolts to the rear mudguard as stock. On my track bike the CDI lives where the oil tank used to be.
Or just hack the number plate bracket off with a hacksaw to piss Phil off!   :o ;D

I know you know this already Warwick - I'm just stating it for clarity and the benefit of others who don't know - i.e. anyone new to TZR's -

The seat unit mounts can be neatly replaced with either genuine sugo mounts or copies - which are readily available (eg: Gecko), if you choose to remove the rear sub-frame (i.e. rather than fabricating your own mounts). The CDI can be quite easily repositioned above / behind the battery, in the area under the rider's seat.

I've done both of those mod's on my street bike :)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: muz_j on February 23, 2018, 03:48:39 AM
Thanks, ybk - I get it. Appreciate the friendly justifications. Fortunately, the solution for us does not mean "hacking" on our TZR. We're only trading a modified version for our "stock" fender/license version. Somewhere there's a street legal TZR that is still a "collector", thanks to Moto 2 Imports.
That said, by retaining the stock configuration for the sake of history, means no mods at all.

I like your attitude - but mine's slightly different.
What about applying mod's - but only mod's than can be reversed if chosen and retain all the original parts.
That way you can improve the bike a little bit - but if you sold it, or chose to revert it to completely original stock condition, you could do it easily.
That's my approach - but I fully appreciate you may not agree with me :)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 23, 2018, 06:01:00 AM
muz-j: Your suggestion is exactly what's happening with our TZR. So, we agree completely. Thanks.

Historically, I have all the stock parts from a Yamaha '88/'90 FZR-400, 1985 Honda VFR 500, Suzuki '97 GSXR-750, Yamaha 1998 YZFR R-1 and a 2004 YZFR R-1. Only have the the FZR-400 left in the "The Shop". Plan on a "Frankenbike", but will keep the original engine for someone else to enjoy. A Kawasaki 2T 500cc single seems like a good engine transplant. The chassis is good enough to handle a 750, but wanting a two-stoke for power to weight. Suggestions welcome.

We'll be very careful with our TZR...the parts at least. Plan on riding the hell out of it soon.

Steve 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 28, 2018, 10:26:03 PM
Our TZR is finally being shipped this week. My partner kept adding and subtracting parts. Ours is an "R" model, has been run-in (a bit) and will come with Aviation Gasoline. The contact at Moto2 Import said this is standard for these bikes and keeps the carbs from gumming up. That seems to make sense, as there's a lot of gasoline around here that's 10% ethanol. We live in the center of the US, surrounded by millions of acres of corn.

We also have access to ethanol free, 110 octane race gas. Opinions, please.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

I've attached a pic of our bike and proposed livery, designed in Photoshop.   
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on February 28, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
I don't know much about the fuel quality in the US really, but any stock 3XV will run fine on 95 Ron unleaded (standard unleaded pump fuel in the UK). To be honest a stock R model  3XV is in such a low state of tune that it will almost certainly be fine running on whatever comes out of the local pumps even if it's a lower rating than that I'd think - it certainly doesnt need AVGAS.

 If it's likely to stand for a while and you are worried about carb gumming from, just drain the carbs before an extended lay-up, maybe? 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on February 28, 2018, 11:43:14 PM
Thanks, Warrick. You've just validated what I believed.

I wasn't worried about "gumming", that's what the dealer (Moto2 was telling us). Believe we're confusing "gumming" (as from old gasoline left in carbs) and the general accelerated deterioration we see over here with ethanol added to our gasoline. Motorcycles are not supposed to use what's called E-15 (gasoline, plus ethanol), thus my concern for our 27 year old TZR. Fortunately, we still have sources for hi-grade 100% gasoline, but riders must be careful to plan their fuel-ups. Here's an article from a US bike guru about the subject that explains the subject far better than I.

https://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/05/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ethanol-fuel-and-your-motorcycle/

Appreciate all the time and knowledge you've given us.

Steve
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on March 01, 2018, 01:06:08 AM
E15 is not sold at the pumps here in the states and probably won't be for a long time. What we have is E10 if the bike is in a stock tune it will run fine on our pump 92.

I put that ethonal "killer" stuff in my gas the stuff by like stabil that's specifically for counter acting the negatives of that crap. Or just run 92 ethonal free gas if it's easy to get.

To get our octane values here in the states you take the ron and mon numbers added together then divide it by 2. It's supposed to give a more "accurate" octane level vs just posting the Ron only.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Thanks for the intel, SeaR1ck. The guy who wrote the article (Kevin Cameron) is a very reliable tech source. I assumed that because he was from California, there was already E-15 there, so I used it as an example, even though 10% (E-10) Ethanol is all I ever see here in Southern Indiana. I also see "Eco-85 compliant" stamped on some cars and trucks, which is only another way to say E-15 compliant. It also means (IMO) E-15 is in the plan. All this is probably worthless info to those who don't have to deal with ethanol diluted gasoline, but very important for us with motorcycles who might have to use gas with corn-based adulterants added. The only corn-based alcohol I want is a fine Kentucky Bourbon.

I'm glad your getting good results with stabilizers, but E-10 is actually not an authorized for use in motorcycles (according to Cameron's article).

Fortunately, there is still 100% gasoline available with US octane rating up to 93.

The truth is, our TZR has not been "shaved" for higher compression and pre-ignition should not be an issue. Wondering if there's a deficit in switching from AVGAS to 100% pump gas, now that the bike has been run-in on AVGAS?
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on March 01, 2018, 10:12:57 PM
There is such a thing as to much octane if your bike isn't setup for it your just wasting money. I myself will never use avgas because it's formulated for higher altitudes  rather just use real race gas.

Usually you can find at the pump even dot 100 or 101 unleaded race gas. Typically found at a station near an airport. There is station not far from where I live that sales Trick brand race gas. The unleaded 101 is at the pump I haven't checked in awhile but it was like $8 to $9 a gallon for it.

I mostly just use it in my dirt bikes though.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on March 01, 2018, 10:37:30 PM
Thanks, you've been very helpful.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: jcsnook on March 02, 2018, 12:22:41 AM
Have you gotten your bike yet Steve?  I'm another US guy...a Floridiot, to be specific.  These guys on here are a wonderful, knowledgeable resource for everything TZR, that's for sure.  They helped me sort out a barn find (not really) basket case 3XV9.  It's fully de-restricted now and makes 57 RWHP.  It's a hoot to ride, and would probably make a great track bike, but I use it on the street.  As others have told you, parts from Japan are the way to go.  I've spent some $$ sourcing them for mine, and having them shipped from overseas, pipes included.  I'm slowing putting mine back to RS/SP trim, as it was also a Frakenbike.  SP swingarm, SP forks, dry clutch, etc, etc.

I'm running one of the "obsolete" SUGO boxes on mine, and it works a treat.  Granted, not programmable as the ZEEL/Ignitechs are, but simply plug and play.  I believe Warwick is also running one.  Must be the last few holdouts...lol

A while back we put together a bulk purchase of 3XV R/RS pistons from Wossner, similar to SeaRick1's center crank seal bulk order.  If you're going to race this bike, spares may be something to keep in mind.  Hoatso was trying to put another bulk purchase together, but I don't it gained much traction.

Best, Jim
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on March 02, 2018, 01:40:49 AM
JSNook - Good to hear from a Yank. Jealous your riding season is 12 months long.

No bike yet. It is being shipped from Northern Virginia. As you may have read on this thread, my partner is funding the TZR and has exclusive contact with the dealer, he's very good about sharing email, so I'm guessing if I haven't seen tracking info, its awaiting pick-up.

Yes, this forum and the guys here are great. Very helpful. The good news is they aren't selling anything and I take their experience as the best form of advice. We've talked to Geko in UK and while very friendly and willing to talk, it seems they have a butt-load of Sugo parts, saying nothing about other black box options. If I had only talked to "retail" outlets, I'd never know "Zeel" or "Igni" existed.

I had a 1971 Suzuki X-6 (called a GT-250 at the time). It was a joy to ride. Lost an 1/8 mile drag race with a 440 Dodge Challenger by only 1/2 length.

Two stroke fan for life. More later. Dinner with son.

Thanks for the digital handshake.

Steve
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Hoatso on March 21, 2018, 05:48:59 AM


A while back we put together a bulk purchase of 3XV R/RS pistons from Wossner, similar to SeaRick1's center crank seal bulk order.  If you're going to race this bike, spares may be something to keep in mind.  Hoatso was trying to put another bulk purchase together, but I don't it gained much traction.

Best, Jim

I am still interested in organising a piston bulk buy if the need is there.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 03, 2018, 12:18:32 AM
Gentlemen - We finally got our TZR into my shop. Its been raining here, almost constantly...like UK only mixed occasionally with snow. No chance to test ride, but it starts and idles. Like having a girl friend who's saving it for marriage.

A new question: We want an extra set of wheels. I've read that TZ 4DP Wheels can fit and are an upgrade, but our goal is to have two identical sets for wild swings in weather. Our track days here are rain or shine.

I've done all the normal searches here and on the internet in general. No Joy. Moto 2 Imports can order from Japan, but why pay them extra?

Any of you guys have a good set you'd like to sell. Good bearings and and beautiful cosmetic appearance not important.

 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: James P on April 06, 2018, 11:44:30 AM
Steve,

You could buy the wheels from Japan yourself. You can periodically check Yahoo Auction listings to see what is available (https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search;_ylt=A7dPFtITP8daNAYAXL9APDh8;_ylu=X3oDMTBiNzloa3JsBHZ0aWQDanBjMDAx?p=3xv&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&fixed=0&ei=UTF-8&slider=0&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=2084016405 (https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search;_ylt=A7dPFtITP8daNAYAXL9APDh8;_ylu=X3oDMTBiNzloa3JsBHZ0aWQDanBjMDAx?p=3xv&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&fixed=0&ei=UTF-8&slider=0&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=2084016405)).

Persistence and patience may get you a bargain, but you'll obviously still have to get them sent to you. If you haven't already done so, you may like to research the difference in cost and time you may experience in buying them from the importer or buying them yourself. I'm not sure how much knowledge or experience you have in buying from Japan, but plenty of forum members can offer advice if you need it 8) .

Regards,
James
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 06, 2018, 05:30:14 PM
Thanks for the link, James. The wheels we can get from our importer range from $800-$1200USD. That seems consistent with what I've seen as I've been scrounging (finding TZ wheels) around the internet.

 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 07, 2018, 09:41:59 PM
Steve,

You could buy the wheels from Japan yourself. You can periodically check Yahoo Auction listings to see what is available (https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search;_ylt=A7dPFtITP8daNAYAXL9APDh8;_ylu=X3oDMTBiNzloa3JsBHZ0aWQDanBjMDAx?p=3xv&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&fixed=0&ei=UTF-8&slider=0&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=2084016405 (https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search;_ylt=A7dPFtITP8daNAYAXL9APDh8;_ylu=X3oDMTBiNzloa3JsBHZ0aWQDanBjMDAx?p=3xv&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&fixed=0&ei=UTF-8&slider=0&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=2084016405)).

Persistence and patience may get you a bargain, but you'll obviously still have to get them sent to you. If you haven't already done so, you may like to research the difference in cost and time you may experience in buying them from the importer or buying them yourself. I'm not sure how much knowledge or experience you have in buying from Japan, but plenty of forum members can offer advice if you need it 8) .

Regards,



James. OK, found some great prices on wheels. Thank You all to Hell. Even found a whole 3xv R. The next question is how do we deal with the Japanese with a such a wild language barrier. I've been sent info on a broker, but that was a contact to another website. Is there an easy solution for an American speaking customer on the site link you sent? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: chubba on April 07, 2018, 09:44:06 PM
I've used buyee to get stuff to the UK
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 07, 2018, 10:16:39 PM
Thanks, Chubba. I've seen that name on the Japanese site, but didn't know what it meant. Most appreciated.

Anyone else have a favorite broker?
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: James P on April 08, 2018, 02:37:59 PM
Anyone else have a favorite broker?

Steve,

I mostly use Japamart or Rinkya. Rinkya will send most things (by FedEx if necessary). Japamart won't send some things, but also won't let you bid on items it won't send. Several other popular agents (including Buyee, I'm told) will happily let you bid on items, pay for them, then tell you they can't be sent!
There seem to be plenty of agents, but just make sure you read the fine print and ask questions before using them.

You can also deal with some of the Japanese bike breakers/wreckers directly, but beware that they may charge "western prices" in such instances.

Regards,
James
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on April 09, 2018, 07:20:01 PM
Rinkya is actually owned by American Japanese family been using them for years. Tge fact they send stuff via fedex helps get around the Japanese post office restrictions. 
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 09, 2018, 07:25:05 PM
Thanks, SeaR1ck. Believe you told me about Rinkya originally. I went to their site and they didn't have 3xv wheels. The justifications for a J-A Contact and avoiding Japanese postal problems is a "sell".

Appreciated.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: SeaR1ck on April 09, 2018, 08:14:05 PM
Restricted items ive gotten from them through fedex pipes n silencers gas tanks bottom ends frames etc. I have yet to do a full engine but they told me they can do it as long as the seller will ship within japan to thier warehouse.

I have successfully shipped from Thailand a nsr150 engine and the one for my tzm through fedex.

They even offered to have the old tires removed from a set of wheels i got for $35 fee before shipping.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: jcsnook on April 11, 2018, 08:09:47 PM
Just signed up for Rinkya myself.  Hope it's better than fromjapan, that I've been using.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 12, 2018, 08:52:27 PM
Thanks to all for your suggestions. I'll contact Rinkya.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 15, 2018, 10:39:27 PM
Gentlemen -

I've been riding the 3xv in short heating cycles with ever increasing RPM, but did ring its neck once to 12K. Power is smooth from off idle to 5000 which then builds to a nice surge to 8000 at which point it jumps cleanly and enthusiastically to 10,500, then flattens out.From everything I've read here, that sounds about right for an "R" with pipes (Dog Fight) and stock CDI box and jetting that's spot on. At this point, the plan was to take the bike to a DYNO for a benchmark reading. However, our local dyno guy is a four stroke expert, mostly with new R-1's, etc. Mellorp and others have spooked me about dyno runs done by tuners who are not familiar with these 2T's. What's next? My local expert (a retired TZ racer) recommends a "Plug Chop" to see what's going on. I know what to look for, but wondering if there's any other form of VooDoo I'm missing to be sure we're getting all we can in the bike's current form. I have yet to ride any real corners, as the bike is not street legal and the track is about 1.5 hours away. If this seems all good, then some easy track time seems obvious. Opinions?   
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Warwick on April 15, 2018, 11:16:37 PM
A few plug chop runs would be useful to see how it's fuelling under load. Assuming all looks OK there, I'd be inclined to just take it to the track and get a good feel for it as is, personally. A bone stock 3XV is plenty of fun on the track, and if the track is more curves than long straights, it might even surprise you a bit as a stock 3XV has nce, flexible power and should handle quite nicely if all is well with the chassis and runing gear.

A simple dyno power check run would give you a nice baseline to check against as you develop the motor further, later. If it's running the oil pump, even an operator more used to four strokes is unlikely to cause any damage really. If it's running pre-mix, just let the operator know to not let the drum push the engine on a closed throttle after the run (blip the trottle with the clutch in on the run down etc.) If the operator is the obliging type, maybe ask if you can run the bike on the roller yourself?

In its current guise, the restrictive stock porting and ignition are the factors holding it back above 10.5k, and there's no real voodoo you can perform to get around that I'm afraid. Checking everything is as healthy as possible in terms of the motor, chassis and running gear though will allow you to make the most of it until you get around to de-restricting it fully.

Enjoy!   (-P)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 16, 2018, 02:00:26 AM
Thanks Warrick - The injection pump is still intact and we have no plan to remove it. I've only use "mix" on my ancient RM80. The dyno-op I would be working with owns the biggest bike shop in our area. He also races "Expert Superbike" in the WERA series here in the US. (Second only to Moto-America, which used to be the AMA series seen in "On Any Sunday"). He knows what he's doing. Thanks for talking me down. I believe "Plug Chops" and riding our 3xv with care at the track is the best answer. I posted a diagram of the track earlier in this thread. It has a lot of everything. Long straights, interesting, tricky corners, fast sweepers and one hairpin leading to the grandstand straight. I just need to avoid the temptation to stretch the throttle on an engine that is supposed to be "fresh". Tough to do, but at my age (67) patience "should" be easier than when I was 25. 

The 3XV runs great and I just don't want to "Fook"it up. Steering input is telepathic, without any twitchiness. Of course, as I said, I haven't challenged any real corners, yet. We have a large agricultural park near our shop that we've been using for testing. But, that's nothing like a great back-road, let alone a racetrack.

Any other opinions are welcome. I've got one week from today before we go to the track. If Warrick has offered the final word on how it "should" be, I'm also open to any other thoughts about how to deal with this first track day.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: thump566 on April 22, 2018, 10:26:11 AM
No, there's no English language manual I'm afraid- the 3XV was only ever sold new in Japan. You'll find links to the Japanese manuals and parts books in the resources section. Main measurments, specs and part numbers etc. are in universal 'English' script so it's fairly easy to work with them really.

Good idea to get a base dyno reading as soon as you can. That way you will be able to clearly measure the effect of any mods as and when you make them  (-P).

Hi Warwick.

Recall a few years back a UK mag featured a nut and bolt restoration of a 3XV done in Marlboro livery with black wheels. Think the guy either worked at / owned a bike dealership in SW England ? Anyhow, recall his other half was Japanese and had translated a fair part of the 3XV to assist with the rebuild so I tried to email him and request a pdf copy emphasising that it was for personal use only to assist with my rebuild and that I would in no circumstances sell "his work" without his permission but received no response to my email.
Quite understand as he didn't know me from Adam but perhaps you may know him from the forum and have better luck than I? :-\
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 23, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
First track-day was successful. Partial rain out. But, learned a lot about my 3xv. Naturally, we had to come in as Novices. The Intermediate and Expert classes were full, which meant any late entry Experts were put into Novice. (Maybe, 5-6 guys) For me, I could hang with any bike there (scrubbed the rear tire to the edge), until the two long straights. But, it did seem that extreme closing rates of jacked up R-1's and GSXR's verses novices on anything is an extremely dangerous situation. The sponsoring organization had "Coaches" on the track with us, which acted as traffic cops, but stifled my partner, just as he was getting to know his raced prepped ZX-6R.

How are track days handled where you ride? Similar? We're thinking of writing a complaint to the sponsors concerning filling the novice grid with Experts. They certainly wouldn't let us move up a class.

Also, both front forks and rear shock spring felt soft on the perfectly smooth track.

Any recommendations on front brake pads? I contacted EBC, but got no response. We have braided lines coming, but at track speeds things got spongy at the end of a 20 minute segment. The discs are in good shape. The brakes were never strong enough.

At 8,000rpm in sixth, the speedometer started bouncing wildly when approaching 180kph.

Lots of questions. Perhaps I should start a new thread, but we're still working on deconstriction, its just taking on new dimensions following this first track experience.

Thanks for any input. On any subject mentioned here.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: jcsnook on April 23, 2018, 09:52:13 PM
First track-day was successful. Partial rain out. But, learned a lot about my 3xv. Naturally, we had to come in as Novices. The Intermediate and Expert classes were full, which meant any late entry Experts were put into Novice. (Maybe, 5-6 guys) For me, I could hang with any bike there (scrubbed the rear tire to the edge), until the two long straights. But, it did seem that extreme closing rates of jacked up R-1's and GSXR's verses novices on anything is an extremely dangerous situation. The sponsoring organization had "Coaches" on the track with us, which acted as traffic cops, but stifled my partner, just as he was getting to know his raced prepped ZX-6R.

How are track days handled where you ride? Similar? We're thinking of writing a complaint to the sponsors concerning filling the novice grid with Experts. They certainly wouldn't let us move up a class.

Also, both front forks and rear shock spring felt soft on the perfectly smooth track.

Any recommendations on front brake pads? I contacted EBC, but got no response. We have braided lines coming, but at track speeds things got spongy at the end of a 20 minute segment. The discs are in good shape. The brakes were never strong enough.

At 8,000rpm in sixth, the speedometer started bouncing wildly when approaching 180kph.

Lots of questions. Perhaps I should start a new thread, but we're still working on deconstriction, its just taking on new dimensions following this first track experience.

Thanks for any input. On any subject mentioned here.

Glad the bike ran well!

The last set of pads I got for mine (rears) were the Gold Fren pads.  I've not had a chance to run them yet, but they came recommended by others here.  Any quality sintered race pads would work tho I would think.  I've not head many complaints about the front brakes on the 3XV's tho.  I think some have swapped out there OEM calipers for Nissen ones, similar to the TZ race ones, but off a Triumph if I not mistaken.  Same caliper, just have to machine off the "Triumph" logo if it bothers you.  Bolt straight up as I'm told, but I've not personally done it.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 23, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
Thank, jcsnook. I was running the bike the way I got it. Rubber lines. Old Brake fluid. I was waiting to install the steel lines for bleeding. The pads aren't used up, but are also stock.

I figured as long as I was into the brakes, new pads would help. I'm also around 190lbs, so I'm sure that adds to load on and performance of the stock brakes.

Love this bike. It was the only 2T on the track across all classes.
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: ybk on April 23, 2018, 11:50:09 PM
Track day setup sounds rough - surely overfilling the expert/intermediate classes would be better than mixing novices with experts..  ???

3XV's are softly sprung as stock, ie, setup for an average Japanese guy. Rear suspension you can't do much about apart from replace with a SP unit or another brand altogether(ohlins, wilber and maxton do shocks for the 3xv I think). Up front using 10W fork oil makes it better I found.

Brake wise get I would replace the seals and get a set of braided hoses. Then use Motul RBF 600 or 660 brake fluid, it has a really high boiling point (300degrees +). Brake pad wise I use SBS634 HS (Sintered) or SBS634 RS (Racing). I have this on both my track bikes and it's effortless 2 fingered braking. World of difference from my road bike with stock hoses and organic pads.

The speedo is mechanical so it may be worth checking or replacing the cable. Otherwise just put some tape over the speedo glass  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
Post by: Steveog on April 24, 2018, 12:14:26 AM
Appreciate your take on our trackday, YBK. I didn't like the shock of being passed at my speed, plus 50mph. My partner was really unhappy, being held back by their coaches to allow the "fast guys" to pass. I agree, if they want the money (I don't blame them) for this premier track back filling intermediate would be safer. In the US, insurance considerations are always running the show on everything from diving boards to our health care system. I'm guessing the sponsor's policy has maximum bike/session clause.

Good tips on suspension and brakes. Just what I needed.

I'm going to try stiffer springs, then scrape my wallet if a new rear damper is needed.

Seriously considering scrapping the stock dash in favor of fabricating my own from black Lexan (with UV protection formula). No need for the speedo.

Steve