TZR Forum

TZR Specific => 3XV => Topic started by: bulldogboy on April 22, 2018, 08:59:20 PM

Title: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 22, 2018, 08:59:20 PM
Hi guys i recently changed the plugs on my 3xv. Both were similar colour, but plug from bottom cylinder was slightly wet. Bike runs good, but pipe on that cylinder is smoking more than the other. Could this be carb set up/ running too rich, or a sign of something more sinister, ill try to attach a pic
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: jools on April 23, 2018, 05:00:43 AM
I did have a problem with oil bleeding into the lower cylinder when not running, which means changing out the oil pump. You should be able to check by removing that carb and looking in the intake to see if there is any oil build up, after its been standing a while.

This all assumes that your jetting is ok of course.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: ybk on April 23, 2018, 06:44:58 AM
When you have your carbs apart you can check if all the internals are stock, reference here : http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=329.0
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 23, 2018, 08:45:47 AM
Thanks for the replys guys, jools when you say " change out" your oil pump what do you mean exactly, please remember your talking to someone with limited mechanical knowledge!! ( but trying to learn) The bike is runnining a zeeltronic ignition, and a mechanical oil pump??
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: jcsnook on April 23, 2018, 10:34:32 PM
He means "replace it" with another pump.  I had a similar issue with the check valves on my pump letting oil weep past into the lower cylinder, ultimately filling the pipe with oil.  In lieu of replacing the pump, I installed some Yamaha Banshee in line check valves.  Works a treat, and saves the cost of the pump.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 24, 2018, 08:03:03 AM
Thanks jcsnook, that sounds better than a new pump, so the pump has a line to each cylinder
Does it?
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: jcsnook on April 24, 2018, 07:25:13 PM
Thanks jcsnook, that sounds better than a new pump, so the pump has a line to each cylinder
Does it?

Yes, oil lines to each carb intake manifold.  The pump check valves are the small 90 degree outlets on the pump.  I just cut the oil line and put the check valves in line between pump and intake.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: mellorp on April 24, 2018, 08:09:01 PM
Don't forget this is an RS which has the oil solenoids as std. As it's running a zeeltronic there were 2 options. Leave the solenoids on and run the pump at fully open 100% of the time. I didn't fancy that so changed the throttle cable and put a cable operated mechanical pump on.

If you revert to the solenoids I posted a guide on here somewhere on how to prime the system. IF you follow the Yamaha guide it takes for ever.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 24, 2018, 09:00:00 PM
So if it were solenoid operated do the solenoids open and close when you open the throttle?,so if they were closing correctly how could oil bleed into the lower cylinder,, from the pump? Anyway this has a mechanical pump so how could you envisage oil bleeding into the lower cylinder under the mechanical pump system, and would it still be possible to install non-return valves inline to the cylinders, or does the system already have a similar valve in place? ( forgive me if I'm talking nonsense!) Also the martin 77 pipes, have a collar that attaches to the manifold held in place with springs. The collar moves independently of the pipe itself, the gap between the collar and pipe was allowing a considerable amount of oil to weep between the 2 on the bottom cylinder, I degreased the pipes, sanded and painted them and sealed the gap, this seems to of done the trick.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 24, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
p.s if oil is even bleeding into the bottom cylinder at all? please feel free to give any other theories, I could just just ride it and stop worrying about it???? :P
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: jools on April 27, 2018, 05:39:40 AM
We are probably not talking oil wells here  ;)

Its only really a problem if the bike is laid up over winter maybe or longer periods and something to consider.
As mine ended up as a race bike I solved the problem by going premix.........
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 27, 2018, 08:33:36 AM
Cheers jools ,has a mechanical oil pump got a non return /check valve? Correct me if im wrong,but with pump/ solenoid system, the solenoids shutting sort of act as a non return valve? I suppose its better to run slightly rich than lean anyway isnt it?
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: yanw on April 27, 2018, 10:57:08 AM
The "mechanical" and "solinoid" oil pumps are the same unit, the "solinoid" one is just set to "max" with any back pressure being sent back to the oil tank : http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=1983.0 (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=1983.0)

They both have "check valve" elbows and the springs can get tired I think. The brass elbows are not serviceable like the RD500 ones.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on April 28, 2018, 03:55:15 PM
Very informative link thanks yanw so the check valve elbows are non serviceable, could I cut the lines and fit extra check valves for each cylinder or would that reduce oil flow through reduced pipe diameter? pre mix must be a great soloution for track orientated bikes, not sure how that would work on the road, wouldn't fancy premixing on the forecourt every time I filled up, but I suppose if you knew the exact tank litres and exact amount of oil, all youd need would be a small measureing vessel under the seat.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: yanw on April 28, 2018, 08:28:34 PM
Yes you can cut and add check lines to the pipes. Someone has had a recent posting thread about them with part numbers etc.

Another alternative to try is to swap the two elbows over maybe the other one is "stronger". They are push fit brass so give them a wiggle out. While they are out you could give them a clean as well as there might be some trapped debris.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: ybk on April 28, 2018, 10:24:04 PM
There is a rough oil pump on ebay at the moment if you want spares..
All my bikes have always smoked unequal amounts, usually the lower cyclinder just due to gravity I reckon not necessarily a bad oil pump. When it's warmed up and still unequal then maybe yeah
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on May 12, 2018, 08:36:27 PM
Just to update this thread.. i today removed the plug from the bottom cylinder which i put in a while back. The old plugs i removed were quite oily, see first pic in thread. The new plugs have prob done about 50/60 miles, couldnt get to other side of bike to look at top cylider plug, but the new one on bottom cylinder was surprisingly clean, look at the pic, i expected it to be bit oily?it has a slightly red tinge to it? How could it go from oily to clean? Nothing changed on set up, am i right in thinking if it was too lean it would be whitish?
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: yanw on May 15, 2018, 11:02:08 AM
I suspect that the old plugs had been in there a long time and got fouled up. Once they started breaking down they probably fouled up even more.

To be sure about the "leaness" you need to do a "plug chop" on an gently incline or on a dyno (or check the A/F mix on a dyno).
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on May 15, 2018, 01:17:55 PM
Thanks Yan,  the bike was mellorps r.s, he knows what hes doing, he serviced the carbs before he gave me the bike, but last time out it felt a bit rough, and was going flat when it hit top gear, does that sound like carbs?was wondering if i should get it dynod Theres a place near me called performance fabrications. Run by mark dent, theyre 2 stroke specialists, bloke does mega pipe welding fabrications,and they have a dyno.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: yanw on May 15, 2018, 03:05:41 PM
If you want to be sure then dyno it but if it's Phil's old bike I'd be confident he had set it up correctly.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on May 15, 2018, 03:46:16 PM
Yes i went to phils, hes certainly an enthusiast! Not suggesting for a minuite he hadnt  set it up fine it just freaked me out a bit when the plugs were oily as one minuite, and clean as the next, albeit after  only 50/ 60 miles.Basically, im pretty clueless, and it can make you paranoid reading the threads on how easy it is to seize an engine if things are lean .What do you reckon on the colour of the plug in the last pic? Going to ride it again this eve, see how it is, just seemed lumpy low down and ,a bit flat in top gear.
Title: Re: 1 oily plug
Post by: bulldogboy on May 15, 2018, 10:40:32 PM
update... rode it this evening down to the local bike meet, and it was going real well, i gave it the berries through every gear, seemed fine  think i need to stop worrying and just ride it 8)