Regulator failure early warning system...

[James P]

Some of you may have already seen this on the KR-1S forum (http://www.kr-1s.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12509), because I fitted the parts to my KR-1 first! I have now fitted an almost identical assembly to my 1KT/2XT TZR.

Since regulator failure can do damage to quite a few components, I've fitted a small LED voltmeter to monitor the voltage on the battery terminals while the bike is running. This should give plenty of advance warning of regulator failure, to minimise the chance of sensitive electronic components getting damaged.
My bike doesn't actually have a battery - it has a 10,000uF 40V capacitor instead. Therefore, the voltmeter only works while the engine is running (and for about 5 seconds after the engine stops, as the capacitor discharges). Anyone fitting one to a bike with a battery may want to wire it into a 12V DC supply wire on the "load" side of the ignition switch.


This is the voltmeter unit, with a mounting bracket I made for the 1KT from 2mm aluminium plate. The bracket attaches to the left-hand M6 screw which secures the instrument panel to the fairing stay (but could also be flipped over to mount on the right-hand side). I added the PVC sleeve and plastic connector to the voltmeter unit.
The bracket I made for the 1KT is not identical to the one I made for the KR-1, but not that much different. I daresay a similar bracket could be made to fit somewhere on other TZR models by anyone with basic hand tool skills.



This is the voltmeter in position (below the speedo) with the engine running. The digits do not appear very well defined in the photo, but this is due to the flash highlighting all of the LED segments. There is plenty of contrast between the lit and unlit segments in practice.

For anyone interested, here is the Ebay listing for the voltmeter I bought: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LearCNC-Voltmeter-DC-LED-volt-meter-30V-Digital-Waterproof-Selectable-Colour-/201313168179?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var=&hash=item2edf332b33

There are other sellers offering practically identical items, as well as still others offering similar units (although many of the alternatives are much larger and have open backs - obviously not waterproof and not as easy to integrate into the TZR instrument panel).

Regards,
James

[Toop]

interesting !!

[scooterboy]

nice idea, and cheap

[Jim Lyon]

<SNIPPED> ( see JL comments x5 )

JL - Please bear with me as I'm no electrician !

Since regulator failure can do damage to quite a few components,

JL - Such as?

 I've fitted a small LED voltmeter to monitor the voltage on the battery terminals while the bike is running.

JL-I notice that you've fitted a block connector to your voltmeter. Is that your preferred way of splicing into the wiring loom, & that, regardless of which way you do it, in the end it's simply a matter of extending the cables & connecting them to the battery terminals i.e. red to +ve & black to -ve?

 This should give plenty of advance warning of regulator failure,

JL - So, 12v systems are nominal ( i.e. your voltmeter is reading 13.3v @ tickover ) & presumably "over volting" is a figure above 13.3V?. So, @ what point does it START to become a problem? And @ which point does it become an imminent danger? ( And between the two, how much warning do we get? e.g. A gradual deterioration over months? Or a quick catastrophic failure which doesn't allow us to even limp home from a distance? ) As for a solution, is it simply a question of showing the voltage regulator is beginning to fail & needs replacing, or do we need to look further e.g. corroded connections, etc.?

 to minimise the chance of sensitive electronic components getting damaged.
My bike doesn't actually have a battery - it has a 10,000uF 40V capacitor instead.

JL - That also interests me. Previous info I've come across has been VERY patchy, &/or the figures quoted seemed rather low for the size of capacitor/condenser. Is that a universal figure? i.e. would it work equally well for a TZR or a DT200r?

 Therefore, the voltmeter only works while the engine is running (and for about 5 seconds after the engine stops, as the capacitor discharges). Anyone fitting one to a bike with a battery may want to wire it into a 12V DC supply wire

 on the "load" side of the ignition switch.

JL - Not being an electrician, I find that phrase a little confusing. Am Ii anywhere near the mark if I think in terms of on the L.T. side of the ignition coil & the ignition switch. Red voltmeter to any power supply wire & the black voltmeter wire to any convenient earth?


For anyone interested, here is the Ebay listing for the voltmeter I bought:

JL - The seller is being rather "american" about it, by which I mean he doesn't do international posting.

There are other sellers offering practically identical items, as well as still others offering similar units (although many of the alternatives are much larger and have open backs - obviously not waterproof and not as easy to integrate into the TZR instrument panel).

Regards,
James
[/quote]

[James P]

Jim,

To address your questions in order:

Although reports from TZR owners are nowhere near as numerous as those from KR-1/1S owners, excessive voltage has the potential (pardon the pun!) to damage things like CDI units, YPVS controllers and motors, tachometers etc. Several KR1/1S owners have reported their tacho failing, closely followed by the CDI unit. The stators on the KR-1/1S and the 1KT-based TZR are nearly identical, so I can only presume that the same danger exists for the TZR.

I fitted the block connector because it makes connecting and disconnecting easier, without putting strain on the wires. I haven't spliced into the loom - I just made an "extension lead" from the battery terminals to the instrument panel area. Since I haven't got a battery, the voltmeter only indicates when the engine is running. If you have got a battery and use this same set-up, the voltmeter will always be switched on - that's why I suggested wiring the voltmeter positive terminal to the "load" side (read on for explanation) of the ignition switch - so the voltmeter will only be switched on when the ignition is on.

It seems that most regulators keep the stator output voltage down to about 13-15V. Without the regulator, the output voltage could be 60V or more at high engine speeds. My own experience suggests that when regulators fail, they just stop regulating, meaning that the voltage is no longer limited. I have not actually observed a regulator going from good to bad, but I imagine it happens in a matter of seconds (or minutes at the most).
Of course, some regulators fail in a different manner (i.e. the voltage may be reduced too much). While this probably won't damage any components, it will allow the battery (if you've got one) to drain without being recharged (with no battery, the voltage may be too low to allow things operate properly).
If the regulator fails in the usual manner (i.e. stops regulating), your only chance of limping home without damaging anything is to keep the engine speed very low (perhaps 2500rpm or less!). Of course, this only works if you are aware that the regulator has failed.
Many electronic components will tolerate over-voltages for a certain amount of time, but not indefinitely.

Regarding the size of capacitor; I haven't yet determined the optimum size. Popular opinion suggests anywhere from a few thousand microfarads to a few tens of thousands. My TZR has one 10000uF unit, whereas my KR-1 has three of these in parallel for 30000uF and both of these seem generally satisfactory. Perhaps the more important rating is the voltage rating. Electrolytic capacitors do not survive for long on sustained over-voltages and tend to explode. Therefore, I would err in favour of a higher voltage rating (e.g. 30-40V).
Most bikes with self-generating magnetos (but still needing 12V DC for CDI/YPVS operation etc.) could probably use a capacitor instead of a battery.

Regarding the phrase "load side of the ignition switch"; In electrical terms, "line" and "load" are synonymous with input and output, upstream and downstream etc. In the context under discussion, I am suggesting that (if you have a battery), the voltmeter would be better connected to any 12V DC supply wire which only becomes live when the ignition switch is on. If you just connect the voltmeter across the battery terminals, it will always be turned on. The negative/earth terminal of the voltmeter may be connected to any convenient earth wire or to the frame.

I think these miniature voltmeters all come from Asia, so it should just be a matter of searching Ebay to find the same item in UK or wherever else. There may also be sellers at the source in Asia who will send direct to other countries. For instance:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=mini+led+voltmeter&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmini+led+voltmeter+waterproof.TRS0&_nkw=mini+led+voltmeter+waterproof&_sacat=0

I hope I've explained things a little better - let me know if anything is still unclear.

Regards,
James

[Jim Lyon]

           (see JL2 comments x17 )

JL2- Firstly, thanks for the effort you've put into this post, it really IS appreciated & gosh! What a relief to be conversing with somebody who does NOT suffer from "short attention span"!  - Not only that, unlike a LOT of others, you aren't screeching & me for breaking away from the conventional linear "block comprehension" style as taught @ school. I find it inadequate for complex - technical discussions ( it allows you to put comments EXACTLY where you want them,
[ thus allowing you to escape from overloading your cortex by trying to synthesise long complex conversations all @ one go. then find you've missed out bits & have to rehash the conversation all over again. with this way, you simply put in a later numbered comment, again EXACTLY where you want it. - It REALLY does make life a LOT simpler ! ]  & if a conversation progresses with both [ or more ] people using the system, you can end up with your comments inside the other person's comments, or vice versa. And if I get  as far as JL10 comments, by that time the conversation has gone far enough to retitle it & revert back to JL comments. The reason some people can't cope with this system seems simply to be they've been negatively conditioned into staying inside the conventional system. Which doesn't seem to apply to you, which makes life easier on me, especially as now I'm so used to it, I prefer to use it all the time.

author=James P link=topic=3212.msg35765#msg35765 date=1439712340]
Jim,

To address your questions in order:

Although reports from TZR owners are nowhere near as numerous as those from KR-1/1S owners, excessive voltage has the potential (pardon the pun!)

JL2 - You're forgiven. as I've seen much worse in my time. 

 to damage things like CDI units, YPVS controllers and motors, tachometers etc.

JL2 -Yikes, that's a long enough list to make a comparitively poor person like me to sit up & pay attention!

 Several KR1/1S owners have reported their tacho failing, closely followed by the CDI unit. The stators on the KR-1/1S and the 1KT-based TZR are nearly identical, so I can only presume that the same danger exists for the TZR.

JL2 - For the cost & negligible weight of a voltmeter, I think I prefer to err on the side of caution.

I fitted the block connector because it makes connecting and disconnecting easier, without putting strain on the wires. I haven't spliced into the loom - I just made an "extension lead" from the battery terminals to the instrument panel area. Since I haven't got a battery, the voltmeter only indicates when the engine is running. If you have got a battery and use this same set-up,

JL2 - At present I've got a battery, but when I eventually get my act together, I'd like to change over to a capacitor. In the UK the legal position is that when you take a vehicle for its yearly MoT
( Ministry of Transport ) test it's a legal requirement that the indicators work with the engine off. So that requires a battery, but you can use a capacitor for the rest of the year ! - So that's the situation I want to work around.

 the voltmeter will always be switched on - that's why I suggested wiring the voltmeter positive terminal to the "load" side (read on for explanation) of the ignition switch - so the voltmeter will only be switched on when the ignition is on.

It seems that most regulators keep the stator output voltage down to about 13-15V.

JL2 - So anything over 15 V is a problem?

Without the regulator, the output voltage could be 60V or more at high engine speeds. My own experience suggests that when regulators fail, they just stop regulating, meaning that the voltage is no longer limited. I have not actually observed a regulator going from good to bad, but I imagine it happens in a matter of seconds (or minutes at the most).
Of course, some regulators fail in a different manner (i.e. the voltage may be reduced too much). While this probably won't damage any components, it will allow the battery (if you've got one) to drain without being recharged (with no battery, the voltage may be too low to allow things operate properly).
If the regulator fails in the usual manner (i.e. stops regulating), your only chance of limping home without damaging anything is to keep the engine speed very low (perhaps 2500rpm or less!). Of course, this only works if you are aware that the regulator has failed.

JL2- IIRC, nowadays a voltage rectifier-regulator is a combined unit? Previously, if i went any long distance, I'd carry a spare 2nd hand CDI "black box" ( that I'd "proved" by means of swopping it over & giving it a functional test ). But now I think I'll add a voltage regulator-rectifier to my tank bag contents?

Many electronic components will tolerate over-voltages for a certain amount of time, but not indefinitely.

Regarding the size of capacitor; I haven't yet determined the optimum size.

JL2 - Optimum is my VERY favourite place to be!  So, if you ever get to know better, I'd appreciate an update, if you would?

 Popular opinion suggests anywhere from a few thousand microfarads to a few tens of thousands. My TZR has one 10000uF unit, whereas my KR-1 has three of these in parallel for 30000uF and both of these seem generally satisfactory. Perhaps the more important rating is the voltage rating. Electrolytic capacitors do not survive for long on sustained over-voltages and tend to explode. Therefore, I would err in favour of a higher voltage rating (e.g. 30-40V).

JL2- So, 30-40V, & presumably in 10,000uF capacity ( because that's what's generally available? ) units X 3  & wired in parallel? If a capacitor is an electrically acceptable replacement for a battery, just how far is it similar to a battery? e.g. one wire only is the positive & earth through a metal strap around the body of the capacitor?

Most bikes with self-generating magnetos (but still needing 12V DC for CDI/YPVS operation etc.) could probably use a capacitor instead of a battery.

JL2- I'm mainly looking for a substantial weight loss, but if it's also cheaper to buy & maintain, then those are extra +'s.

Regarding the phrase "load side of the ignition switch"; In electrical terms, "line" and "load" are synonymous with input and output, upstream and downstream etc. In the context under discussion, I am suggesting that (if you have a battery),

JL2- From my comment above about the legal requirements of a yearly MoT, it looks like I need a system compatible with both battery & capacitor.

 the voltmeter would be better connected to any 12V DC supply wire which only becomes live when the ignition switch is on. If you just connect the voltmeter across the battery terminals, it will always be turned on.

JL2 -Fair point, there's nothing to be gained from wearing the voltmeter out by having it permanently on, & less load on the battery if permanently fitted ( & it seems desirable to  break free from batteries ).

 The negative/earth terminal of the voltmeter may be connected to any convenient earth wire or to the frame.

JL2- Good, as that makes life easier.

I think these miniature voltmeters all come from Asia,

JL2 - From comments on evil bay implying that, it seems likely.

 so it should just be a matter of searching Ebay to find the same item in UK or wherever else. There may also be sellers at the source in Asia who will send direct to other countries. For instance:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=mini+led+voltmeter&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmini+led+voltmeter+waterproof.TRS0&_nkw=mini+led+voltmeter+waterproof&_sacat=0

JL2 - Thanks for that. 

I hope I've explained things a little better

JL2 -Your explanation is very good & I'm happy with it. 

 - let me know if anything is still unclear.

JL2 - Where do you source your capacitors - evil bay?
 As I'm likely to end up with a dual system where I use a capacitor most of the time & once a year change over to a battery for the MoT test, is there anything else  I need to consider?

Regards,      Cheers,
James           Jim

[James P]

To address Jim's further questions:

I'm not sure of the exact voltage at which a motorcycle's electronic components start to sustain damage. Obviously there are many different bits & pieces in the electrical system and some of them may tolerate a greater over-voltage than others (and the time taken to sustain damage may vary). Whatever the case, I daresay that if you can limit the voltage to "about 15V", you should have little trouble.

As far as I'm aware, all "modern" motorcycle rectifier/regulators are a single unit. Some bikes use magneto-fed AC lighting circuits (with the ignition circuits not requiring a 12V DC supply), so need only a regulator (no rectifier). Some owners convert to DC lighting by fitting a separate rectifier. Regardless, I'd suppose that any "mainstream" bike from the last 50 years or so with an OEM DC lighting system would use a single-unit rectifier/regulator (if anyone knows otherwise, let us know !).

Regarding the size and rating of the capacitor; as capacitance AND voltage rating increase, so does the price! I've found the 10000uF 40V units the best in terms of both physical size and price. One could assemble a capacitor bank of similar capacitance and voltage rating using a series-parallel arrangement comprised of lesser-rated (and cheaper) units, but the end result would be a bit too "Heath Robinson" for my liking and possibly work out more expensive.

These are the 10000uF 40V electrolytic capacitors I use: http://www.jaycar.com.au/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Electrolytic/10000uF-40V-RP-Electrolytic-Capacitor/p/RU6720. I solder insulated wires of suitable length to the leads, with some heat-shrink tubing over the bare metal parts to finish. The negative terminal is usually marked on this type of capacitor, so its difficult to get it wrong! There is a Jaycar branch quite nearby, so I just pop in and buy one when I need it. I daresay that Ebay will yield similar items though.

The chief advantage of using a capacitor (instead of nothing if you ditch the battery) is that the system voltage is maintained at a suitable level when the engine speed is low (e.g. at idle). Without a capacitor, the voltage may drop to 6V or less, causing dim lights and possibly causing instruments or other components to malfunction temporarily.

If you need a battery to pass the MoT inspection, it should be simple enough to fit some quick-disconnect terminals to the battery wires (many bikes already have these), with similar terminals on the capacitor leads. After passing the inspection, disconnect and remove the battery, then just plug in the leads of the capacitor (which you can leave permanently mounted in a suitable position on the bike).

Regards,
James

[Jim Lyon]

While I've got a vague idea of series- parallel circuits, as I haven't even touched on this sort of stuff since I was @ school, I looked it up on google & it seems there's quite a few different styles of wiring up series - parallel circuits ! So, would you care to give me a diagram of how you wired yours up?
  If one of the diagrams from here

 https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=series+parallel+circuits&safe=strict&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=963&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CDYQsARqFQoTCJ23kOeVtscCFcYg2wodf5oP_g

matches, perhaps it might be simpler to copy & paste it to here?

 As for capacitors themselves, I've had a look on evil bay, & ran across 2 different sets sold by the same guy.

set of 4 capacitors  -  40v 22000uF @ £12

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Electrolytic-Capacitor-For-PSUs-etc-40v-22000uF/321834893388?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.M

set of 4 capacitors  -  40v 47000uF  @ £20

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Electrolytic-Capacitor-For-PSUs-etc-40v-47000uF-/321834893341?hash=item4aeedac01d

I've yet to find out if he means the given rating in uF is per individual capacitor or for the whole set?
  Also, the only condensor/capacitors I've used were back on old points systems where they were used to reduce the arcing over the point & it was a single wire & the condensor was earthed by means of a strap round the body. I can easily understand that the ones you talk of with 2 leads is one is positive & the other earth. However, on the evil bay ones from the last 2 links above, his photos show FOUR connecting pins. Now I'm starting to get confused !

[Warwick]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Battery-Eliminator-Tzr250-Nsr250-Rgv250-Tdr250-Rd350-KR1-Rs125-Rs250-Tz125-Tz250-/271957445840?hash=item3f51ed4cd0

[James P]

While I've got a vague idea of series- parallel circuits, as I haven't even touched on this sort of stuff since I was @ school, I looked it up on google & it seems there's quite a few different styles of wiring up series - parallel circuits ! So, would you care to give me a diagram of how you wired yours up?

On this page (https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au/toolbox/electrotech/toolbox1204/units/04unit/06topic/text_alternative/ta_re02.htm) look for the first diagram under the heading "Capacitors in parallel" - that's how to do it. However, you will likely get equal satisfaction from a single capacitor unit...less work for you too.

I've yet to find out if he means the given rating in uF is per individual capacitor or for the whole set?
  Also, the only condensor/capacitors I've used were back on old points systems where they were used to reduce the arcing over the point & it was a single wire & the condensor was earthed by means of a strap round the body. I can easily understand that the ones you talk of with 2 leads is one is positive & the other earth. However, on the evil bay ones from the last 2 links above, his photos show FOUR connecting pins. Now I'm starting to get confused !

I'd assume any quoted rating of capacitance would be on a "per unit" basis, not for the whole lot! You can actually see the rating stamped on each casing if you use the magnifying function on the photos. Those capacitors in the listings you gave actually seem to have FIVE connecting pins. I've never used such capacitors before, but I daresay you could find a data sheet showing the connections.

There are many sellers offering ready-to-use capacitors similar to those in the link given by Warwick, where the capacitance and voltage rating are not disclosed. These are offered as being suitable for the intended purpose, so are certainly worth considering. However, if you want to save a few quid and you already have wire, terminals, soldering gear etc., just buy a single capacitor unit of suitable voltage rating and about 10000-30000uF capacitance and make your own. If you haven't got all the gear, the ready-to-use ones might be a more attractive option.

Regards,
James

[Jim Lyon]

Quote from: Jim Lyon on August 20, 2015, 12:29:08 AM
While I've got a vague idea of series- parallel circuits, as I haven't even touched on this sort of stuff since I was @ school, I looked it up on google & it seems there'
s quite a few different styles of wiring up series - parallel circuits ! So, would you care to give me a diagram of how you wired yours up?

On this page (https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au/toolbox/electrotech/toolbox1204/units/04unit/06topic/text_alternative/ta_re02.htm) look for the first diagram
under the heading "Capacitors in parallel" - that's how to do it.

JL - Good. A nice simple diagram.

However, you will likely get equal satisfaction from a single capacitor unit...less work for you too.

JL- To an extent, that largely depend's on what's available out there, but a further aspect that might affect my buying decision is what kind of life can I
 reasonably expect from a capacitor, used or simply stored, as a spare? ( The last bunch of capacitors I gave a link for were being sold in groups, rather than
singly )

 You can actually see the rating stamped on each casing if you use the magnifying function on the photos.

JL -And not picking up on that just shows that trying to catch up on the internet L8 @ night when you're dog tired, is somewhat less than ideal - sigh !

 Those capacitors in the listings you gave actually seem to have FIVE connecting pins. I've never used such
capacitors before, but I daresay you could find a data sheet showing the connections.

There are many sellers offering ready-to-use capacitors similar to those in the link given by Warwick, where the capacitance and voltage rating are not
disclosed.

JL- Just one of the many irritating facors of dealing with evil bay, is that, all too often, sellers don't supply enough info for me to make a buying decision !

These are offered as being suitable for the intended purpose, so are certainly worth considering.

JL -Personally, I prefer to have "too much" information, rather than be forced to operate in an information vaccuum !

 However, if you want to save a few quid

JL - Certainly I'm in a position where I have to "scrimp & scrape" in order to afford the things that make life worthwhile.

and you
already have wire, terminals, soldering gear etc., just buy a single capacitor unit of suitable voltage rating and about 10000-30000uF capacitance and make your
own.

 If you haven't got all the gear, the ready-to-use ones might be a more attractive option.

JL- I've got the tools, but am a bit low on consumables. However, my base line position is that, rather than give somebody else the profit, I'd rather do as much
as possible myself, then re-invest the money saved in more, better tools, etc.
  It's occured to me that, having an interest in dirt bikes as well as road, as dirt bikes are likely to be dropped more often than road ones ( certainly @ my level of experience ! ), as spilled battery acid is somewhat less than desirable, it makes sense to fit a "battery eliminator"  on my DT200R as well.?
 Previously you stated "Most bikes with self-generating magnetos (but still needing 12V DC for CDI/YPVS operation etc.) could probably use a capacitor instead
of a battery." - As that sems to be the relevant criteria for whether or not to use capacitors, then it seems OK to go ahead with it?

Touching again on a previous comment by you " Popular opinion suggests anywhere from a few thousand microfarads to a few tens of thousands. My TZR has
one 10000uF unit, whereas my KR-1 has three of these in parallel for 30000uF and both of these seem generally satisfactory."

JL-  As you've used both 10,000 & 30,000 uF capacitors have you noticed any significant, indeed ANY difference in performance of these? And if, as you imply
here "Regarding the size of capacitor; I haven't yet determined the optimum size." if you're still struggling to come up with a definitive answer, which had it's
"battery eliminator" fitted last- the KR1-S, or the TZR? -just trying to guess the direction you're headed in, as size presumably affects cost & thus buying
decision.

Regards,      Cheers,
James            Jim

[James P]

JL-  As you've used both 10,000 & 30,000 uF capacitors have you noticed any significant, indeed ANY difference in performance of these? And if, as you imply
here "Regarding the size of capacitor; I haven't yet determined the optimum size." if you're still struggling to come up with a definitive answer, which had it's "battery eliminator" fitted last- the KR1-S, or the TZR? -just trying to guess the direction you're headed in, as size presumably affects cost & thus buying decision.

For your interest Jim; When I rode my KR-1 recently, I swapped the 30,000uF capacitor bank for a single 10,000uF capacitor and didn't notice any difference in electrical system performance. My TZR does just fine with its single 10,000uF capacitor.
I'd thought that "bigger is better" (up to a point), but perhaps there is no optimum size for these capacitors. Therefore, for cost and simplicity reasons, I'd still recommend a single capacitor unit of between 10,000uF and 30,000uF. The voltage rating should be as high as possible; 40V gives me some peace of mind, but I'd suggest no less than 24V.
I'd think that the life of an electrolytic capacitor would be "many years", provided that it is not badly stored, not mechanically damaged and not subjected to prolonged over-voltage. Having said that, it may be worthwhile (if the price is right) buying a spare...just in case  !

Regards,
James

[Jim Lyon]

you back in the library jim?

 

Re: Regulator failure early warning system...
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 09:34:45 PM »
QuoteModifyRemove
Quote from: Crank on August 28, 2015, 08:45:49 AM
Quote from: Paul on August 26, 2015, 09:54:37 AM
you back in the library jim?

 

  Many years ago,"Yatsushiro" tried to get this NON joke up & running, & eventually even he developed enough sense to let it drop. - So now "Paul" thinks it would be a jolly good "wheeze" to try & resurrect it, in order to fill his boring empty life. And , like the sheep that you are, you just follow along?
  Maybe you don't understand it @ your level, but we all live in a NON linear universe, subject to the "Law of Unintended Consequences". The fact is that on forums, none of us REALLY knows what is / has happened in other people's lives. Before it finally crashed, there were a LOT of problems like this on the Yamaha-RD.com website, such that it was impossible to have any intelligent conversation, & LOTS of the good guys that the forum needed to attract others
 simply left ( since Yamaha has abandoned the 2 stroke customers who made them what they are, isn't this Forum supposed to be a learning source, & as such, should be respected? ).- I've also sene this level of immaturity on the Proboards 2 stroke forum, where a small clique, who are frightened by intelligent threads drove away the most mechanically & electrically clued up guy I've come across in a VERY long time!. Whether there was a particular trigger, or it was a case of it being the "last straw that broke the camel's  back" makes no difference. The fact is he's gone & that forum is MUCH the poorer for it ! Having been here long before it ever became a forum  ( & was a list run by Neil Ronketti ), I for one would NOT be happy to see it ruined by a small clique of unaware  %^^&$£ !
  So, you may well come back on this saying "Can't I take a joke?". which is an all too common cop out that verbal abusers use. The simple fact is that, whether or not you are aware of it, in effect what you are indulging in is CRAB BUCKET MENTALITY ( & if you don't understand that, then look it up on Google ) & I can assure you that, despite what you seek to imply with your emoticon, you are so UNcool !

[Crank]

Its fine if you don't accept my apology Jim........but don't keep coming at me!

[Jim Lyon]

Its fine if you don't accept my apology Jim........but don't keep coming at me!

 My original post to you has become displaced & is now out of order ( i.e. it's a fair bit behind where it was originally placed, & is NOT me repeating myself )
Apart from the fact that I have a LOT of other things going on in my life ( so don't expect fast replies ) there is a LOT of complexity under the surface of what you've created, that you seem unaware of.
 With regards to "don't keep coming at me!", as I said above, I have NOT repeated my first post on this, it's been accidentally displaced.
I'm not "coming @" you guys, it was actually Paul who kicked off, & I made no reply until you joined in. As far as I'm concerned I was merely objecting to what I felt was unacceptable behaviour, & explaining why I  objected to it.
  I'm answering this one first as I feel that if it's not explained it'll only create more confusion.
  In a while I'll answer your apology & hope we can resolve this amicably.