Author Topic: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?  (Read 490 times)

tzar250

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Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« on: April 04, 2017, 11:47:46 AM »
Hello

I've been slowly stripping down my engine, prior to sending off the cases for aqua-blasting.

Almost there but when I removed the gearbox shift cam, the left side runs in a small needle bearing fitted into the cases.  I'm not too surprised but had hoped it would remove easily.  Not so - it appears to be quite a snug press fit into the side of the lower case.

Although I doubt it is worn; ideally, I'd like to remove it before it gets blasted.  Has anyone had any experience of dealing with this bearing?  It's in a blind hole and access wouldn't be great.  Really want to avoid damaging the cases obviously.  I'm guessing some sort of blind bearing puller is called for which I will happily get if someone can confirm this will do the job.

Many thanks.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 11:49:37 AM by tzar250 »

James P

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 01:01:11 PM »
Although I haven't removed this bearing from a TZR engine case, I have removed similar bearings from other engine cases (most recently SDR).
Firstly, try putting the casing in the oven at 100-150 degC for about half an hour. If the bearing doesn't drop out by itself, try tapping/hitting the casing onto a block of wood - the bearing may fall out. If not, you can try a slide hammer with expanding puller. The expanding puller should ideally fit just inside the reinforced outer face of the needle roller casing. With a bit of gentle slide-hammering (ideally the casing will still be hot from the oven), you can probably remove the bearing without damaging it.

Let us know if any of this works!

Regards,
James

saltysealion

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 02:41:02 AM »
Any updates on this.

Although not critical, I'd love to replace the bearing just to have a fresh one in there while I have it broken down..

tzar250

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 09:20:13 AM »
No updates just yet..

I have a set of blind bearing pullers on order from Amazon that may arrive by the weekend.

In the meantime, if I get a chance, I may try James' suggestion of heating the case and then tapping the case to dislodge it.  I have had success in the past using this method to shift a crank bearing out of a DT50 case.  Although that had a bit more inertia to it than the needle bearing - so I'm not too hopeful it will work in this instance.

In any event - before I try anything that may potentially damage the bearing, I'm going to source a replacement.

I will post any progress made on this.

squirrel_hunter

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 01:48:28 AM »
When I did it for my 2MA build I used a blind bearing puller. Couple of taps and it was out, really simple. Didn't need any heat but there is nothing wrong with having a little help there. From memory getting the new one back in was close simply due to access though the drum hole and keeping everything lined up.

tzar250

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2017, 12:42:35 PM »
The blind bearing pullers arrived from Amazon - but not going to plan so far.  :-\.

After several tries and even a bit of gentle warming from a hot air gun, the bearing is staying firmly in place and the bearing puller is starting to look a worn already (very cheap one).

I'm going to give up for now whilst there is still some use left in the puller and take it all into my workplace tomorrow where there is a workshop oven I can use to heat the case better.  Hopefully this will make a difference.

nic fan

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2017, 07:00:04 PM »
I've only got a 125 4DL but from my experience replacing all the bearings on that,
a gentle warming is not sufficient if the bearing is a tight fit, bung it in the oven and heat the bugger up.
TZR125r 4DL1 Belgarda

saltysealion

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 02:57:36 AM »
Thanks for the update on the pullers.

By the sounds of it, its such a tight fit that it needs a bit of heat for it to slide out.

I'm so not keen on heating the engine casing. Does doing such things not interferer with it's mating faces? Does heating it up not distort it's shape and integrity?


James P

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2017, 10:28:44 AM »
I'm so not keen on heating the engine casing. Does doing such things not interferer with it's mating faces? Does heating it up not distort it's shape and integrity?

I have never had any problems at the low temperatures I use (100-150 degC). However, you may like to remove the engine mounting bushes beforehand, as these may possibly be damaged by such temperatures. You can use lower heat (e.g. heat gun) on the casing to assist in removing the engine mounting bushes (preferably using a proper puller) before putting the casings in the oven.

To ensure the mating surfaces are in the best possible condition before refitting bearings etc., I use a flat sharpening stone in a sink/bucket of hot soapy water to get rid of any burrs or high spots. After rinsing in hot clean water, the casings can go back in the oven to dry, in preparation for refitting the bearings.

Regards,
James

tzar250

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 05:48:10 PM »
Just an update.

Tried heating the case to 100 degree C - bearing wouldn't budge.  Then 150 degrees - still no joy.  The cheap puller eventually pulls through.  Its tangs aren't evenly sized which may account for the lack of proper purchase (might be able to see in photo).  Lesson learned about buying cheaply!

I'm sure with a decent puller, it will come out.  However, in the meantime, I've admitted defeat.  Since the cases were going off for aqua-blasting anyway and there is also a really stubborn barrel stud stuck in the top case; I sent them off and asked the aqua-blast company to have a go at removing them - as it's a service they offer.

At least I can get on with other stuff now.

nic fan

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 08:19:11 PM »
although to late now another method you could keep in mind for future reference is to poke some grease down inside the bearing then get a
drift reasonably close to the bore size then as you tap it in the grease pushes the bearing out.
well that the theory it worked on my power valve bearing, sorry forgot to mention it before (old age thing)
TZR125r 4DL1 Belgarda

tzar250

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 01:28:35 PM »
Thank you for everyone's input.

Just in case you were planning on replacing this bearing yourself - I have just received my replacement from Fowlers - it is an IKO TLA1212Z.

You could save yourself over a tenner by buying it from one of the online bearing companies.

Jim Lyon

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2017, 03:08:58 PM »

 Lesson learned about buying cheaply!

JL - Yeh, you can always rely on Amazon for that. but that's not their only problem as 1.2 + the time they can't even process a credit card.- I often wonder who is going to win the "race to the bottom"- them or "evil" bay -sigh !


YAMAHA RIDERS GO IN DEEPER AND COME OUT HARDER

saltysealion

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 07:38:07 AM »
Wow. Mine is a tough nut as well.

I tried using a bearing puller and some other shananagain bread/oil to try to pop it out or at least make it MOVE.

Did you manage to make it budge?
 

tzar250

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Re: Removing Shift Cam Cylindrical Bearing?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 09:46:55 AM »
Hi - sorry - did mean to update this...

I was running out of ideas and worried about damaging the cases.  So as I was sending the cases of for aquablasting to Aquablast UK (Cambridge) and they offered bearing/stud removal as a service - I asked them to try and remove it while they had the cases.

Thankfully, this they were able to do - by welding a bolt to the rim of the bearing and presumably using a decent bearing puller.

There was no evidence of any heat damage or otherwise around the bearing seat - whoever did it must have had very steady hands!

The new bearing went in fairly easily - I didn't bother trying to heat the case- just grease.  I used a large G-clamp, with the case on its side by the edge of the workbench.  Went very carefully and kept stopping and checking with a long rod in the bearing that it was going in straight.  It nearly got jammed at the beginning but I spotted it just in time and was able to re-align it.  If you had a proper press, I'm sure it would be less likely to tilt.

I think there are some photos on Aquablast UK's facebook page but here is a picture of the bearing and welded bolt and the first stage of reassembly.  This was back in June/July last year but I've only just managed to get to the point of starting her up again last week!

Good luck with yours!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 05:30:54 PM by tzar250 »