Author Topic: Leaking Check Valves?  (Read 413 times)

jcsnook

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Leaking Check Valves?
« on: January 04, 2018, 10:29:41 PM »
In order to get at, and remove, the the standard R swinger off my bike, I pulled off the pipes.  To my surprise, all this oil came out of the front/right (low) side pipe.

Assuming that it's bad oil line check valves on the oil pump, as the oil tank was low as well.  The bike has sat for a bit, so it's had time to drain.

What's the easy fix for this?  I was planning on installing some of the Yamaha in-line aluminum check valves that are used on several of the Yamaha 2T's.  I used the same check valves on my RG400 as the ones in the carbs were failing, and I was getting puddles of oil under the bike. 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:32:03 PM by jcsnook »
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jcsnook

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 10:33:11 PM »
...all this drained out too
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ybk

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 11:21:53 PM »
Never had this happen to me, makes sense that itís the lower pipe as the other 2t pipe has an uphill path. Easiest would be to just replace the oil pump. Do you have a contact for yahoo jp?

jcsnook

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 02:29:55 AM »
Thanks Yan.  Easiest yes, but definitely not the cheapest.  Do they still sell the pumps new?  I put an older mechanical pump on mine when I put the SUGO box on.  It was a used pump.  I have another Used pump, but suspect I'd be having the same issues with it.  I can't imaging the in line check valves will have any adverse effects?
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ybk

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 08:02:59 AM »
Would the oil in the pipe after the check valve still be able to drip into the cylinder?

Looks like the pump is NLA
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:04:51 AM by ybk »

yanw

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 10:01:28 AM »
I have messed about with the 3XV oil pump (the solonoid one) a bit but I am not an expert.

By "check valves" I assume you mean the brass return valves (two) that spigot off the oil pump. If you look at the picture below of the RD350 oil pump it's marked as #8.

The RD350 oil pump has the check valve in components but the 3XV one is a single item with the spring and ball bearing (#2 & #3) being held into the brass body (#8) with a pressed over lip.

On the 3XV oil pump you can, with care, use a pair of plyers to remove the brass return valve in a single piece. If you have a spare oil pump (mechanical or the solinoid one) you can swap the return valves over, saving you having to swap the whole pump. I had to do this when I snapped the nipple off the check valve when I crashed the bike.

However, going back to the image the check valves only stop oil going back into the pump from the oil lines to the inlet rubber.

What I think might have happend is that over time the pipe got oily, from unused 2T oil. While the bike has stood it has slowly drained back to the low point in the pipe.

If the oil pump was free flowing into the pipe the crankcase would be full of oil on that side. Is this the case?

jcsnook

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 03:23:57 AM »
I suspect they have a pressure breaking point to prevent free flow Yan, like most of these do.  I've had the ones on my Kawasaki triples rebuild to hold pressure, and prevent exactly what you mentioned...filling up my crank cases with oil.  I've not checked the cases on the TZR yet, thanks for reminding me to do that.  How would I see in them if the barrels are on?  Then...how would I drain them?

Read here...

http://kawtriple.com/mraxl/checkvalves.htm
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yanw

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 10:43:33 AM »
Ok, I get the drift now.

From memory the 3XV ones are not splittable and are not a listed spare part. The best I could do was swap one from a different pump.

As for checking you could remove the reed blocks and either use a cheap eBay endoscope or a "dipping stick".

jcsnook

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 05:18:46 PM »
I'm just going to add the in line Yamaha check valves.  Worked a treat on my RG400.  No affects on pumped oil flow.  Should be the same on the TZR.
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AHAMAYfrank

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 04:36:16 AM »
Well Jim, if you are satisfied with your responses, I am going to hijack your thread  :o.
Do you have the part number for the Yamaha in-line check valves?  Please share!!

Here is my story.  I finally got my 3XV4 back together with a rebuilt engine.  The previous owner was using premix but I put the pump and drive back on with some new intake boots that had the oil line spigots.

I filled the tank and bled the pump but did not prime the lines after the pump.  My plan was to run premix until I have the injection system working properly.  I have clear lines so I can see the oil flow.  After running at or near idle for a while, the lower pump line (shorter to lower cylinder) filled up nicely and appears to be free of air.  The upper cylinder longer line appears to be pumping but is not filling the line and not getting very far past the pump itself.

Do you suppose that my upper pump check valve could be the cause of this? 

I will try and prime the line and maybe switch the two lines to see what might happen.  It does seem line the inline valves might be a simple solution.  As Jim said they work nice on my RG500 that had previously filled the crankcase with oil after sitting.

Thanks, Frank   ;D
2017 Ducati SuperSport939S, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 1991/2014 Yamaha TZR450F, 1992 3XV4, 1991 3XV1, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1973 Yamaha AT-3 (for the runners).

AHAMAYfrank

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 07:35:56 PM »
Maybe this is the part number?

6E9-13183-70   :-\
2017 Ducati SuperSport939S, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 1991/2014 Yamaha TZR450F, 1992 3XV4, 1991 3XV1, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1973 Yamaha AT-3 (for the runners).

jcsnook

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 08:25:41 PM »
Thanks Frank....

Part number is 8CH-1316A-00

Did you manually hold the oil pump wide open when you first started up the bike (on premix) and idled/rev'd her up to fill the lines?  That's what I've always done.  Once filled, these oil line check valves should hold the oil back from filling the cases, and prevent the oil from draining back as well.  You could also have an air leak somewhere causing this.  Just read a thread on the NSR forum where a guy struggled with the same issue as you.

It is however, possible that your check valve is clogged, or that pump could be bad.  Best to pull it out carefully with pliers and blow some carb cleaner or brake cleaner thru it....not high pressure air.  Or you can try and rebuild the entire pump, if it looks tired.  The Kawi triple oil pumps are rebuildable, and there are kits available on-line for them.  I would bet that the inner seals are very similar, but cannot confirm having never had a TZR pump apart.
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yanw

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 10:51:48 PM »
I think the pump is very similar to the RD one and rebuildable. "Arrow" on the RD site is the go-to man for the service and I think he is on here as well.

yellowandfast

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 06:02:30 AM »
Running premix would solve this if the oil would have been clean.

Why does the oil in the pipe look used?
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jcsnook

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Re: Leaking Check Valves?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 03:00:44 PM »
Not into premixing...not on a street bike anyway.  Don't want to haul oil around with me, and have to mix at the pump.

Oil is Motul 710 injector oil.  Dark green to begin with, and having sat in the pipe for a while, I suspect it picked up crud and color in there.

Hoping in line check valves are the simplest and easiest way to will solve this.  Want to re-assemble this weekend, so may be able to test, if it's warm enough outside.     
If your not mixing gas, your not hauling ass!