Author Topic: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction  (Read 4493 times)

Steveog

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Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« on: February 02, 2018, 08:51:35 PM »
I apologize in advance, as I'm sure this topic is covered somewhere here, but after many dead-end searches, I decided to accept the slings and arrows of distention and pose the the question once again. What are the details of dereresricting a Japanese 1991, 3XV? I am only wanting to bring the TZR-R up to Canadian or European standards. This model was never imported through Yamaha dealers here in the states, but as the 1991 Model is now over 25 years old, it is considered "classic", eligible for legal purchase and my team partner has one on a truck heading our way as I write this.

No real insight on details of derescriction anywhere on internet (that I could find).

I've heard we need a different black box and probably pipes, but that's only hearsay from an old TZ racer we know here.

Please help. 
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mellorp

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2018, 09:29:28 PM »
Minimum you need is pipes
Zeeltronic is a plug and play benefit
SP air box mod

Then you can go SP porting and SP crank (still available from Yamaha)

That's it

Have a look at my trials and tribulations

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Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2018, 09:57:26 PM »
Mellorp -

Much Thanks. Huge Help.
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ybk

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2018, 12:33:52 AM »

mellorp

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2018, 09:01:07 AM »
Porting, cdi and pipes. Have a look at this old archive thread for extra info..

http://pure2strokespirit.net/archive1/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboardd603.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=305
NSR World of Shite work out of GT Motorcycles. I know of at least one 2 stroke they have destroyed on a dyno .... You have been warned

BTW my Martin77 pipes made the biggest difference. You don't lose much lower down but give heaps more at the top end. You can dial most of the mid range back in with a programmable ignition. Rev counter can be adjusted to read correctly. I set the rev limiter on the zeeltronic at 12500 but still rev it based on the rev counter reading rather than until it splutters. I do have some (not much) mechanical sympathy
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 09:14:41 AM by mellorp »
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Warwick

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2018, 10:06:24 AM »

NSR World of Shite work out of GT Motorcycles. I know of at least one 2 stroke they have destroyed on a dyno .... You have been warned


Have you ever used the dyno at GT, Phil? And can you evidence that the dyno operator specifically was the cause of the failure you describe above? If not, your allegation is a bit unreasonable, isn't it?

In my own experience (quite a few hours on that dyno) the dyno service offered by Steve at GT was first rate, I have to say  :).

Anyway, yes, for the OP:

1. SP-ish porting
2. Pipes to match
3. Ignition to match

are the basic ingredients 8).
 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 10:09:51 AM by Warwick »
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mellorp

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2018, 07:38:18 PM »

NSR World of Shite work out of GT Motorcycles. I know of at least one 2 stroke they have destroyed on a dyno .... You have been warned

And can you evidence that the dyno operator specifically was the cause of the failure you describe above?


Yes and yes. The engine was built by them, and when taken back as it wasn't running correctly destroyed on the dyno. The owner was not allowed to witness the dyno runs.  They then denied any responsibility and gave the broken bike back to the owner blaming him for the problems......
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Warwick

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2018, 08:32:11 PM »

Yes and yes. The engine was built by them, and when taken back as it wasn't running correctly destroyed on the dyno. The owner was not allowed to witness the dyno runs.  They then denied any responsibility and gave the broken bike back to the owner blaming him for the problems......

Blimey! I find that really surprising, Phil. GT's Dyno bloke Steve has always been an entirely sound bloke in my own experience.  What actually happened to the motor?
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Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 10:03:41 PM »
Thanks to you all for your expertise, insight and knowledge. Huge help in narrowing down our goals with this bike.

The TZR we're getting does have aftermarket pipes and we were told it was derestricted, but based on what's been said here, I doubt that it has SP barrels or has been ported to SP specs. I'm getting the build list, so can check the black box, too.

Concerning dyno pulls, we're fortunate to have a Dynojet here in Southern Indiana. The shop is owned by an WERA Superbike Expert. He races a new R-1. His parts guy raced TZ's back in the 70-80's. Believe we're in good hands. We plan a baseline session, right after shake down start and run.

Is there such a bible as an English version of the TZR 3XV Service Manual? All I can find is the promise of such a thing on "pay for" sites (they say its free and only want my email. That makes me nervous) or a Japanese text version.

Thanks again, gentlemen.
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Warwick

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2018, 10:42:16 PM »
No, there's no English language manual I'm afraid- the 3XV was only ever sold new in Japan. You'll find links to the Japanese manuals and parts books in the resources section. Main measurments, specs and part numbers etc. are in universal 'English' script so it's fairly easy to work with them really.

Good idea to get a base dyno reading as soon as you can. That way you will be able to clearly measure the effect of any mods as and when you make them  (-P).
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Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2018, 10:49:45 PM »
Thanks, Warwick. Validation on dyno helps. Seems a translated version of the service manual might be a great entrepreneurial exercise.

Do you mind taking a look at the pic of our TZR chassis and help me identify the brand of pipes. Anyone else (Mellorp?) please offer an opinion.

Appreciation in advance.

Steve

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Warwick

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2018, 11:08:31 PM »
Not 100% sure about the pipes from that pic. Are they stainless steel? If so, I'd think they're probably Jim Lomas?

 
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ybk

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 12:26:07 AM »
JL has that extra kink on the lower pipe I think, could be DFR? Paging Dan for confirmation. :))

Please document your dyno results here when you get round to it (-P)

Smithy3XVC

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2018, 07:01:09 AM »
Look very much like Dog Fight Racing to me.

These are the stainless versions:
http://www.alphin.jp/muffler/dogfight/stntzr250rs.jpg


Warwick

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2018, 08:50:50 PM »
I think Karl and Smithy are probably on the ball here - I'd forgotten that Dogfights are available in Stainless too. Silencers certainly look like Dogfight.

An old thread here with a pic of the Lomas pipes for comparison:

http://pure2strokespirit.net/archive1/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboard0e5a.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=328

« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 10:15:58 PM by Warwick »
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