Author Topic: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction  (Read 3693 times)

ybk

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2018, 05:06:16 AM »
Warrick's post was after 1:30am. Again, Thanks.

Mellorp. Why NOT trim all the excess from a track-only bike that will never see the street in our hands. Well, I do live in a rural area, so a few shake down runs may take place near my property. .


The forumís time zone is set to SA time so doesnt represent actual time of day of the poster (unless youíre in SA  ;) )

Years ago when these bikes were plentiful all the fenders got cut. Now that they are collector items an uncut fender is a rare thing (-P)

Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2018, 06:02:26 AM »
Thanks, ybk - I get it. Appreciate the friendly justifications. Fortunately, the solution for us does not mean "hacking" on our TZR. We're only trading a modified version for our "stock" fender/license version. Somewhere there's a street legal TZR that is still a "collector", thanks to Moto 2 Imports.

That said, by retaining the stock configuration for the sake of history, means no mods at all. I know that's not the intention of your comment, but if the goal is a museum piece, that's cool. We want a reliable two-stoke GP experience. The TZR 3XV is as close as we'll ever get. Our bike is, cosmetically, already adulterated by racing body work and after market expansion chambers. Hope the 2T gods forgive us.

Consider all the P-51 Mustangs with RR Merlin engines still flying. An extreme few of those are still stock. Probably none, but those airplanes, stock or not go for millions ($$$). 

These TZR's are very expensive (comparatively) and will only inflate in value. Our bike would seem to maximizes the value of those who kept there's "bone stock". That's why I couldn't understand Mellorp's comment. Our bike was already very non-stock. What does one fender extension matter?

Appreciate your comment, though. It is part of our log book. You'e been very helpful.

Steve

PS - The time displacement between my location and the UK seems to be either +/- 6 or 7 hours. I traveled to Iraq in 2006 and the time difference was +/- 9 hours. Had to call my wife by 12pm CST or miss her, via being asleep. I simply appreciate that I'm getting feedback from the UK when the clock says, "you guys are on line after normal working hours".

 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:10:08 AM by Steveog »
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mellorp

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2018, 10:08:25 AM »
These TZR's are very expensive (comparatively) and will only inflate in value. Our bike would seem to maximizes the value of those who kept there's "bone stock". That's why I couldn't understand Mellorp's comment. Our bike was already very non-stock. What does one fender extension matter?

Appreciate your comment, though. It is part of our log book. You'e been very helpful.

Steve

Bodywork/engine originality are 2 different things. There are plenty of chopped 3XV mudguards in the world. You can put a tail tidy on if you must.  A pristine mudguard can never be restored and you can't buy them new. IMO either remove it or leave it alone.
Mellion say If it ain't broke thrash it until it breaks

Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2018, 05:53:18 PM »
Thanks. I get it, now. Your point is well made.

As you may have read, "no original TZR parts have been harmed in the making of our bike."

Because of your thinking, I'm now of the opinion that we should have taken the bike with the original tail section, modified our bike based on Warrick's suggestions and sold the "never to be made again" pieces on Ebay.
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

muz_j

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2018, 03:44:51 AM »
Thanks for the pics. Just be wary that they might not be sealing very well on the carbs. I'd be looking for a slightly smaller clamp myself so that the rubber is definitely clamping on the carb rather than the clamp being fully tightened up like that. Just my opinion, if all works as is than fair enough  8)
Dan

thanks - the fit seems pretty snug as is - I've given them a good wiggle and attempted to remove them once tightened and they seem fine. But given your comment (and my large supply of gasket cement), I think I'll smear a bit of gasket cement around them when I re-fit them. Thanks for the comment :)

muz_j

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2018, 03:45:43 AM »
The whole thing can be removed easily enough - and the steel seat subframe it bolts to too (saves a useful bit of weight). You'll just need to make up a small bracket for the rear seat mounts, and re-think the CDI mounting arrangement as that bolts to the rear mudguard as stock. On my track bike the CDI lives where the oil tank used to be.
Or just hack the number plate bracket off with a hacksaw to piss Phil off!   :o ;D

I know you know this already Warwick - I'm just stating it for clarity and the benefit of others who don't know - i.e. anyone new to TZR's -

The seat unit mounts can be neatly replaced with either genuine sugo mounts or copies - which are readily available (eg: Gecko), if you choose to remove the rear sub-frame (i.e. rather than fabricating your own mounts). The CDI can be quite easily repositioned above / behind the battery, in the area under the rider's seat.

I've done both of those mod's on my street bike :)

muz_j

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2018, 03:48:39 AM »
Thanks, ybk - I get it. Appreciate the friendly justifications. Fortunately, the solution for us does not mean "hacking" on our TZR. We're only trading a modified version for our "stock" fender/license version. Somewhere there's a street legal TZR that is still a "collector", thanks to Moto 2 Imports.
That said, by retaining the stock configuration for the sake of history, means no mods at all.

I like your attitude - but mine's slightly different.
What about applying mod's - but only mod's than can be reversed if chosen and retain all the original parts.
That way you can improve the bike a little bit - but if you sold it, or chose to revert it to completely original stock condition, you could do it easily.
That's my approach - but I fully appreciate you may not agree with me :)

Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2018, 06:01:00 AM »
muz-j: Your suggestion is exactly what's happening with our TZR. So, we agree completely. Thanks.

Historically, I have all the stock parts from a Yamaha '88/'90 FZR-400, 1985 Honda VFR 500, Suzuki '97 GSXR-750, Yamaha 1998 YZFR R-1 and a 2004 YZFR R-1. Only have the the FZR-400 left in the "The Shop". Plan on a "Frankenbike", but will keep the original engine for someone else to enjoy. A Kawasaki 2T 500cc single seems like a good engine transplant. The chassis is good enough to handle a 750, but wanting a two-stoke for power to weight. Suggestions welcome.

We'll be very careful with our TZR...the parts at least. Plan on riding the hell out of it soon.

Steve 
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Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2018, 10:26:03 PM »
Our TZR is finally being shipped this week. My partner kept adding and subtracting parts. Ours is an "R" model, has been run-in (a bit) and will come with Aviation Gasoline. The contact at Moto2 Import said this is standard for these bikes and keeps the carbs from gumming up. That seems to make sense, as there's a lot of gasoline around here that's 10% ethanol. We live in the center of the US, surrounded by millions of acres of corn.

We also have access to ethanol free, 110 octane race gas. Opinions, please.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

I've attached a pic of our bike and proposed livery, designed in Photoshop.   
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

Warwick

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2018, 11:05:03 PM »
I don't know much about the fuel quality in the US really, but any stock 3XV will run fine on 95 Ron unleaded (standard unleaded pump fuel in the UK). To be honest a stock R model  3XV is in such a low state of tune that it will almost certainly be fine running on whatever comes out of the local pumps even if it's a lower rating than that I'd think - it certainly doesnt need AVGAS.

 If it's likely to stand for a while and you are worried about carb gumming from, just drain the carbs before an extended lay-up, maybe? 
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Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2018, 11:43:14 PM »
Thanks, Warrick. You've just validated what I believed.

I wasn't worried about "gumming", that's what the dealer (Moto2 was telling us). Believe we're confusing "gumming" (as from old gasoline left in carbs) and the general accelerated deterioration we see over here with ethanol added to our gasoline. Motorcycles are not supposed to use what's called E-15 (gasoline, plus ethanol), thus my concern for our 27 year old TZR. Fortunately, we still have sources for hi-grade 100% gasoline, but riders must be careful to plan their fuel-ups. Here's an article from a US bike guru about the subject that explains the subject far better than I.

https://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/05/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ethanol-fuel-and-your-motorcycle/

Appreciate all the time and knowledge you've given us.

Steve
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SeaR1ck

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2018, 01:06:08 AM »
E15 is not sold at the pumps here in the states and probably won't be for a long time. What we have is E10 if the bike is in a stock tune it will run fine on our pump 92.

I put that ethonal "killer" stuff in my gas the stuff by like stabil that's specifically for counter acting the negatives of that crap. Or just run 92 ethonal free gas if it's easy to get.

To get our octane values here in the states you take the ron and mon numbers added together then divide it by 2. It's supposed to give a more "accurate" octane level vs just posting the Ron only.

Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM »
Thanks for the intel, SeaR1ck. The guy who wrote the article (Kevin Cameron) is a very reliable tech source. I assumed that because he was from California, there was already E-15 there, so I used it as an example, even though 10% (E-10) Ethanol is all I ever see here in Southern Indiana. I also see "Eco-85 compliant" stamped on some cars and trucks, which is only another way to say E-15 compliant. It also means (IMO) E-15 is in the plan. All this is probably worthless info to those who don't have to deal with ethanol diluted gasoline, but very important for us with motorcycles who might have to use gas with corn-based adulterants added. The only corn-based alcohol I want is a fine Kentucky Bourbon.

I'm glad your getting good results with stabilizers, but E-10 is actually not an authorized for use in motorcycles (according to Cameron's article).

Fortunately, there is still 100% gasoline available with US octane rating up to 93.

The truth is, our TZR has not been "shaved" for higher compression and pre-ignition should not be an issue. Wondering if there's a deficit in switching from AVGAS to 100% pump gas, now that the bike has been run-in on AVGAS?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 06:54:49 PM by Steveog »
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SeaR1ck

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2018, 10:12:57 PM »
There is such a thing as to much octane if your bike isn't setup for it your just wasting money. I myself will never use avgas because it's formulated for higher altitudes  rather just use real race gas.

Usually you can find at the pump even dot 100 or 101 unleaded race gas. Typically found at a station near an airport. There is station not far from where I live that sales Trick brand race gas. The unleaded 101 is at the pump I haven't checked in awhile but it was like $8 to $9 a gallon for it.

I mostly just use it in my dirt bikes though.

Steveog

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Re: Japanese '91 3XV deresriction
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2018, 10:37:30 PM »
Thanks, you've been very helpful.
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.