Author Topic: 3xv: Project Phoenix  (Read 167443 times)

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #165 on: April 05, 2019, 10:58:52 PM »
Finished up the carbs. They are wrapped in plastic and ready for installation.

Took a look at the magneto and flywheel. They both needed cleaning. Found a chunk of factory epoxy had broken off one of the coils. I cleaned off all the schmutz that collected on about half of the exposed metal around the mag with a Dremel polishing head and patched the the one bad spot with JB epoxy. Its the grey piece at 12 o'clock. Ready for installation.

Moving toward sweating in some bearings, tomorrow. Starting with the main case.

Steve 
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Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #166 on: April 06, 2019, 11:32:06 PM »
My wife was out for most of the day. Heated the cases to 270 Fahrenheit (133C) in the home's oven. I took great care to vent the oven and the house. Got busted anyway.

Had previously frozen the bearing for about 3 hours in a normal refrigerator's freezer compartment. Some of the bearing were almost drop-ins, others took a bit of gentle encouragement. Nothing went wrong. That said, I used a very thin coating of anti-seize grease on the bearings where they contact the case. Overall: Very happy.

Next time, I'll heat the oven to 320 and use dry ice to freeze the bearings. Is there a point of no return using this process with a domestic oven's temp? I've seen some use heat-guns. Others, propane. One US maintenance professor said the aluminum shouldn't be heated to more than 230F. A UK guy said 160C, which is 320F. I chose the oven, as I wanted to do all the bearings in one session.   

One problem. Pushed one seal in too tight and had to pull it back out. (Just the seal, not the bearing.) No damage could be seen on inner lips of the seal, but feel as though I should replace it with a new one. My Yamaha dealer can get seals in about 3 days and doesn't charge shipping. The seals I'm using are from "Simply Bearing" (Thanks, Warwick). It takes about two weeks or more to get stuff from the UK. So, for one seal, I'll bite the bullet and pay retail for a Yamaha part.

Will finish the seals tomorrow and try to get the tranny back in the case.

That's it for today. The Final Four University Basketball teams play in about an hour. For you guys in the US, I live near the border of Indiana and Kentucky. Basketball is a religion. I don't want to lose my righteousness card.

Best to all.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

ybk

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #167 on: April 08, 2019, 01:53:21 AM »
Haven't thrown cases in the oven yet (not sure if I'll escape unscathed  C:-)  :)) ) but I reckon not much more than 130 degrees celcius? Wouldnt want to change the aluminium characteristics. I've always just heated the bearing area with a torch but I realise it may not be the best method. All the bearings are pretty easy to get in bar the  sprocket side one and the roller bearing on the balance shaft - got a buddy to do them with a press.

Was it the sprocket seal you got in too deep?, I think I almost did that as well haha. By the way, you may want to get the balance shaft seal as an OEM one - It has a different looking lip than off the shelf ones I found. Like it has more surface area for a better seal.

Good progress!

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #168 on: April 08, 2019, 02:05:05 AM »
Started today on installing the balance shaft. Ran into a conflict between the service manual and my panic mode. See attached.

The arrow shows a circlip that was not taken off the bike during tear-down and also defies my ability to make sense of it all. According to the diagram this clip should sit behind the seal, ahead of the bearing. Installing this clip would require seating the clip between the bearing and seal. The balance shaft doesn't have a groove cut at the precise spot which would allow such installation. There is a groove that might accept a circlip, but it does not line up with where it has to be between the seal and bearing.

This clip makes no sense, as the balance shaft is secured by a nut and locking washer. A clip is not needed to secure the bearing and would tear up the seal on contact. The bearing is new/solid via interference tolerances.   

Can someone validate this is a mistake in Yamaha's documentation or my pea-brain that just can't absorb what the manual is trying to tell me. I'm using the 3XVA-B_workshop_manual_jp. It is more comprehensive than the 3xv1 manual.

Moved on to the transmission. Cleaned and checked each gear and shafts. Using YamamaLube 20W-50 as build oil. Should have the cassette squared away by EOD tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for any knowledge/advice you might offer.

Steve
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Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #169 on: April 08, 2019, 02:25:40 AM »
Haven't thrown cases in the oven yet (not sure if I'll escape unscathed  C:-)  :)) ) but I reckon not much more than 130 degrees celcius? Wouldnt want to change the aluminium characteristics. I've always just heated the bearing area with a torch but I realise it may not be the best method. All the bearings are pretty easy to get in bar the  sprocket side one and the roller bearing on the balance shaft - got a buddy to do them with a press.

Was it the sprocket seal you got in too deep?, I think I almost did that as well haha. By the way, you may want to get the balance shaft seal as an OEM one - It has a different looking lip than off the shelf ones I found. Like it has more surface area for a better seal.

Good progress!

Thanks Karl - Yes, it was the sprocket drive seal that "Fooked" me. HA. I just posted a new conundrum that may require pulling the Balance Shaft Seal. Will go OEM when I order up new sprocket drive seal. I just can't go cheap at this point. Compared to what I've spent in time and money to this point, getting anxious is my/our biggest enemy. It seems obvious that I won't make it to our first track day with the 3xv. Fortunately, my partner will lend me a bike for April 20. Good to have friends who understand our passion for the 3xv. Some for 40 years. Some in New Zealand, The UK, Germany, France, Australia, Japan and other places around the USA.

Thanks for your feedback. Sitting alone in my workshop with the just bike is a wonderful experience, but can lead to feeling isolated when things doen't go well. Yours (and many others) have helped me stay confident moving forward.

My Best . Steve.
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

ybk

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #170 on: April 08, 2019, 02:55:08 AM »
Can't take the open engine out the box at the moment (doc says no heavy stuff for a few weeks, hernia op :( ) but going on memory that circlip sits flush on the outside of the roller bearing. It clips into a groove in the cases.

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #171 on: April 08, 2019, 03:59:05 AM »
Thanks. Will check out your diagnosis. The clip was not in my bike when disassembled.

Good luck on your surgery. I’ve been there.

My best. Steve
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Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #172 on: April 09, 2019, 11:16:19 PM »
but going on memory that circlip sits flush on the outside of the roller bearing. It clips into a groove in the cases.

Absolutely right, Karl. I removed the balance shaft seal, which worked in my favor, as the needle bearing hadn't been properly seated below the grove in the case to accept the circlip. It was very close, but not spec. Fixed. Circlip installed. One thing for others is that the opening of the circlip should be set so it doesn't cover any of the oil gallery for the needle bearing. Not a big deal, but....

I also ordered the seal for the balance shaft on your recommendation, so no loss forcing out the generic seal.

Thanks for the quality advice. Glad I caught this now.

Steve
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Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #173 on: April 12, 2019, 03:55:50 AM »
A general question that’s easily solved, but it might help others, as it’s confusing.

None of the usual parts diagrams show two important parts of the shift-shaft assembly, while the 3xv A&B Manual clearly show a circlip and washer on the inside of the engine case with identifying numbers.

The circlip on my 3xv is clearly suffering metal fatigue, but because there’s no listing for the part, I’m going to need to annoy my usual, local supplier for just one clip, assuming they have a metric match.

Does anyone have the Yamaha part number for the circlip? If so, how did you find it?

I can’t button up the cassette and cases without feeling confident in this one tiny, fookin’ part.

Thanks in advance.

Steve
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 05:45:49 PM by Steveog »
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #174 on: April 12, 2019, 10:04:48 PM »
Thanks for your response Karl. I've attached two new pics that I believe are a bit more clear. In the diagram of the shift-shaft, the groove for the circlip in question is highlighted in red. In the pic from the maintenance manual the circlip and washer are pointed out in red. The shift drum is blue and sits below the shift shaft in this angle.

In the diagram, I cropped off the portion of the parts page that showed the external shifter and linkage. Maybe not the best way to communicate.

Back in the real world: My Yamaha shop didn't have the proper clip in-house. So, I went to my bearing supplier and they hooked me up with what appears to be the proper circlip. Five in fact for one USD. Hopefully, this solves my problem. But for others, getting the proper part numbers would be very helpful.

Appreciate your looking in on my project. Perhaps I'm just wrong. But, I do have the original clip and washer, so these parts do exist. 

Steve
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Warwick

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #175 on: April 13, 2019, 12:19:44 AM »
Parts 20 & 21 on this page I think, Steve:
Still Smoking...

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #176 on: April 13, 2019, 05:56:33 PM »
Thanks Warwick. OK. I get it now. You and Karl are telling me the washer and clip from the shift drum are the same as those on the shift shaft.

It appears that ybk has deleted his post, which makes my earlier post a bit confusing. I certainly hope I didn’t insult him. I just didn’t understand what he was trying to tell me.

When I disassembled the bike, I did not take the shift drum apart, so I know those parts weren't confused when reassembling the shift shaft.

I know you guys are accurate, but a normal shmo, such as myself would be very unlikely to have figured this out without help. The maintenance manual suggests replacing every circlip. Wondering why they made it so hard to find their part number to accommodate the manual? Has this been noted before on the Forum? Its a pretty big "gottcha". Was there a reference I missed to these parts being interchangeable excepting here?

I'm done wasting time fretting over this now that have the answers. And, thanks to you and Karl, the Yamaha part number (if needed).

Enjoy what's left of your weekend.

Steve
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 04:59:18 PM by Steveog »
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #177 on: April 13, 2019, 06:07:42 PM »
Warning to others who may wish to disassemble, clean and lube the kick-start lever.

There's a small ball and spring in there that will take-out an eye if not careful. Suggest wrapping a shop rag around the stump and leg when pulling it apart. Putting it back together is the real challenge.

The lever is sold as one part so, there is no exploded diagram to show you what's hiding inside the lever. The lever is also listed as NLA.

Its the little stuff that seems to try this man's soul.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

Steveog

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #178 on: April 17, 2019, 05:39:29 AM »
Have new, OEM balance shaft seal, installed a new countershaft seal and by some miracle, my local Yam dealer had the clutch actuator seal in stock. Looking forward to buttoning up the tranny section soon.

Have business that will delay “the engine build” for 10 days or so, but looking forward to a first track day on 4/20. Will be riding a super-stock spec ZX-600, generously lent to me by my team partner.

This break may be a blessing, following a winter struggle to get this far.

All good. Thanks to everyone who has been interested and offered help on my project.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the greatest game of all.

jools

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Re: 3xv: Project Phoenix
« Reply #179 on: April 18, 2019, 04:54:47 AM »
Hi Steve

you probably realise anyway but may sure you put that circlip on the shift shaft the correct way around.
It gets a fair bit of pressure during gear changes and if wrong will pop off and you'll loose gear selection.

Ask me how I know...........
Plus ce la change, plus ce la memchose