Author Topic: Ignition for 4FL  (Read 860 times)

solomonheckler

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Ignition for 4FL
« on: March 18, 2020, 09:22:18 PM »
Evening folks.

Winter is nearly over here so time for me to revisit my 4FL project and get the ignition updated. How tricky is it to install for me? Borut says I need to modify the PV servo, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Is it worth the cost and trouble? Any advice appreciated.

I'm also now wondering about changing the plastics. I have a few broken panels that are getting worse. Is the Chinese set any good? Does anyone have any experience with them? Or should I try to get mine repaired and repainted?

Gracias amigos.

G
1987 CBR250R Hurricane
1995 TZR 125 4FL Japan Model
1991 KR1-S 250
and a few mountain bikes

Martin77

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2020, 09:47:46 PM »
I run a zeel on mt 4FL, but use a 5 wire servo motor from a TZR/TDR etc. Is it worth it? not sure... in theory it will gain you power, but how much I couldn't say!


solomonheckler

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2020, 09:52:41 PM »
Thanks for replying so quickly.

Those servo motors are rather hard to get hold of I understand. The standard 4FL ignition curve seems a little like it's designed with emissions in mind. I'd just like the motor to give me the best it can, run as a motor is supposed to. The Zeel is pricey, maybe I should be grateful for owning such a great bike and leave the tweaking.

G
1987 CBR250R Hurricane
1995 TZR 125 4FL Japan Model
1991 KR1-S 250
and a few mountain bikes

SeaR1ck

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2020, 10:16:39 PM »
Maybe this could be a source? The tzm 150 has some commonalities with the tzr 125 4dl/4fl in the engine.

Might be able to source one through tyga or one of the shops out of Malaysia.


Martin77

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2020, 10:41:53 PM »
Interesting.. but the TZM150 servo has three wires, which means it has an internal processor for the rpm/opening position. That means it's unsuitable for the zeel in the same way the 4FL servo isn't suitable.

Servo's aren't too hard to find, but you really need one with the extra little cable output for the oil pump. There's a few on ebay uk for £40-£60 ish..

2stroke

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2020, 10:06:55 AM »
Hello,
To use the Zeel if you have a 3 wires YPVS Servo Motor Assy, you have to modify it to a 5 wires.
It's has been already made by someone on this forum. (-P)

I've performed it too: it's not so difficult if you have a small practice with soldering. Then connected the Zeel.

The Zeel will give you the possibility to set ignition and powervalve curve.
It's perfect for optimizing standard engines, but more than that, it's an exceptional tool for adapting perfectly these parameters to customized engines. 8)

Just be aware, because, wrong settings may cause damages to your engine! :o

PS: I should have a used YPVS Servo Motor Assy from a 4DL Belgarda TZR 125 (3 wires) : if you are interested, send me a private message. ;)

Fotis

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2020, 12:35:21 PM »
Yes you can modify your own 3 wire servo to work with external controllers. Ive done it in the past.
There is another option to modify the wiring on a 4DL CDI and use it on your 4FL. Ive done it as well.
I dont think the timing on your servo is bad. Its more down to your CDI for emissions as you said. Get a cheap 4DL cdi and test it. Make sure the static advance is the same as I dont remember. I think they are though...

Martin77

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2020, 01:21:25 PM »
I've used a 4DL cdi on a 4FL before I put the zeel on, works fine.

solomonheckler

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2020, 12:37:09 PM »
Right, so I have an Ignitech on way. But I would appreciate a little help with the install.

- How do I wire or reconfigure the servo wiring? Anyone got a diagram? Or a sketch?
- Any advice on the ignition map? Should I follow 4DL curve?
- Should I stick with original airbox or fit a pod or K&N.
- How about jetting if I decide to remove the airbox?

Any help is appreciated. I'll get everything else sorted before the ignitech turns up.

G
1987 CBR250R Hurricane
1995 TZR 125 4FL Japan Model
1991 KR1-S 250
and a few mountain bikes

solomonheckler

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2020, 11:02:55 AM »
So I checked and I have a 4 pin square connector with Black, Brown and Grey wires. One terminal is empty. The Grey wire on the wiring diagram doesn't seem to go anywhere. Then an extra bullet connector with Black/Yellow wire.

Black/Yellow is from CDI, is it the 5v needed for the PV control?
Black is Ground
Brown is switch +12v
Grey is a mystery.

4DL seems to have the same apart from the Grey wire. What does it do? Do I need to connect it?

Cheers
1987 CBR250R Hurricane
1995 TZR 125 4FL Japan Model
1991 KR1-S 250
and a few mountain bikes

tzr-v4

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2020, 12:14:02 PM »
On the diagram, which number is the YPVS servo ?
CDI is 9.
Olivier.
TZR250 2MA & 2XT, RD500s et TZR-V4 building...

solomonheckler

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2020, 01:19:11 PM »
Sorry, schoolboy error.

No.17 is the servo.

Thanks
1987 CBR250R Hurricane
1995 TZR 125 4FL Japan Model
1991 KR1-S 250
and a few mountain bikes

tzr-v4

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2020, 01:47:16 PM »
OK I was expecting that 17 was the good candidate.

Classic 3 wires YPVS motor (same as the DT125R or my DT200R)

Grown is 12V after ignition
Black is GROUND (0V)
Black/Yellow is RPM signal from the CDI (should be signal to orange wire)

Control board (PCB) is in the servo motor.
If Ignitech provide 5V output then you could use any Yamaha servomotor :
 - YPVS from RD350/500 TZR250...
 - EXUP from FZR250/400/600/1000

Olivier.
Olivier.
TZR250 2MA & 2XT, RD500s et TZR-V4 building...

Martin77

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2020, 02:16:35 PM »
I believe the grey wire is used for restricting the engine for some countries, grounded it keeps the pv closed. (I could be wrong!)

Ignition curve as a start I would use the 4FL, but without the sip at 6000. As I said in the PM, I can send you my maps, although mine only peaks at 9800ish at the moment.

solomonheckler

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Re: Ignition for 4FL
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2020, 03:39:16 PM »
Thanks.

The Ignitech has a 0-5v output from it, can I just connect this to the Black/Yellow wire or do I need to solder a wire from somewhere on the PCB?

Martin, your maps would be great if you don't mind. I'll try the undipped 4FL curve first and see what happens.

What about PV curve? Should it start at 0% until 7300ish and be at 100% at 8300ish? Or how does that work?

Then I have to tackle the uncomfortable problem of tatty plastics . . . . anyone?

G
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 05:30:04 PM by solomonheckler »
1987 CBR250R Hurricane
1995 TZR 125 4FL Japan Model
1991 KR1-S 250
and a few mountain bikes