Author Topic: New member 3xv/3yl  (Read 382 times)

Adriangp84

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New member 3xv/3yl
« on: March 28, 2020, 05:20:50 AM »
Hi guys, my name is Adrian, and I am from Sydney. Its been a very long time coming, and a long time searching and admiring this forum,  but I have finally just purchased a tzr 3xv to go with my long time build tz250 3yl.
My garage now looks like the sales brochure. Ha Ha.
This 3xv is an Australian grey import, and has been sitting for a while but is in decent original condition, with only 19,000kms.
I was just going to see if I could get it running, but I think best I slowly do a full strip and rebuild. It will be a full nut and bolt rebuild. It has Chinese fairings sitting on there, but I have full set of originals that I will repair and paint original the same.
Thought I might add some photos of my other bikes. Trx878 big bore race bike, and rz350.
You can see the standard I want the 3xv to end up like. It will be show worthy.
Rz350 is for sale, otherwise the 3xv will just sit here longer, as I need the coin, and my son wants to go racing. So I feel broke already just thinking about it. Its a shame as the rz350 was a nut and bolt restoration aswell, and is very nice.
If I have to quarantine soon for the current situation, it might get pulled down sooner.

So some quick advise from some people with the experience. my plan for the 3xv is not to fully tune it for max power, just perform derestriction mods. I have the tz for high power.
I will first leave it standard for rebuild, then in time would like to add chambers, and cdi.
Would you guys think the power gains from these would not be to much for the standard R crank?
Not for the track, just very spirited road riding.
What chambers people find the best all rounder?
Can you get away with running sugo cdi, or zeel is better option?
Good source for crank rebuild parts?
There seems to be most parts on ebay, but is the centre seal very hard to come by. Different part number to the tz, and the standard R centre bearings seem available, unlike the tz centre.
Thanks for reading, and being apart of the tzr community.














Steveog

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2020, 07:53:54 PM »
Welcome. Nice Bikes.

Concerning derestricting the 3xv's engine: (Be sure your suspension and brakes are dialed before starting on power)

- Porting. The 3xv cylinders are the same as the SP version, except for porting. Martin77 is the "go-to" tuning guru here on the forum. His pricing is reasonable, a real gentleman and he can also skim the stock heads for better compression.

- Pistons. There seems to be only two sources for replacing the stock two ring version. Stock Yamaha and Wossner custom. The Wossners are made to order, but outside a "group buy" there are some here who may be willing to sell a set. Wossners are forged. Stock pistons are cast and prone to spinning a ring, if not changed out regularly. Wosssners don't disintegrate during a heat-seizure. Don't ask how I know this.

There are also flat top (SP/SPR) Pistons, but will require the head be cut and tweaked to match. Or you can spend some more money for SP heads. Please check specs before mixing and matching parts from other models. Most of the pieces match up, but there are differences. See Rick's post below.

- High-performance expansion chambers. The ones best suited to the spec of your cylinder should drive your choice. Martin77 can advise.

- Re-plating and honing the cylinders. After almost 20K, they will be due, plus the pistons will be matched to the cylinders for better compression.

- The zeel ignition will make it all come alive. Its plug and play, but offers myriad tuning options. The Sugo units are good, but haven't evolved for several years and do not offer adjust-ability. If you go Sugo, you'll probably want their pipes, too.

- Better air-flow. I'd keep the stock air boxes, but an SP (3xv2 Unit) upper chamber drops in and is less restrictive. I'm currently experimenting with hi-flo filter elements.

- That's about it, unless you want bigger (SP) carbs. Truth is, it been shown that the stock 28mm carbs can produce 65hp. Beyond that and your taking chances with reliability. The 3xv is designed for 60+ hp. The cases are the same as your 3yl and 4dp.

- WARNING: I'd think twice about using a stock "R" crank with these performance mods. Particularly a crank that's been sitting unused. The lower end bearings can fail even under stock 45hp loads. Again. Don't ask. I high recommend a new SP crank. Its expensive, but a lock-up will cost far more than a new SP crank.

- Finally, careful jetting will make a clean running, screamer retaining good mid-range and street-ability.

Good luck.

Steve
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 10:07:32 PM by Steveog »
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the best game of all.

SeaR1ck

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2020, 08:15:29 PM »
The stock oem flat top pistons from the sp/spr are daul ring.

Steveog

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2020, 09:59:15 PM »
Thanks, Rick. I'll edit my post.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the best game of all.

Adriangp84

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2020, 02:00:45 AM »
Thanks for all the info. Very good and comprehensive info. Much appreciated.
I have a set of new wossner piston kits already, that came with the bike. So thats one thing done. So i was thinking off plating, and honing to match these pistons to get correct clearance. I have not pulled it down yet, but it's not right as it feels like it has very little compression. So maybe there is a ring/ barrel issue anyway.
Best to go through everything slowly once, and be guaranteed many thousands trouble free miles/kms.
I thought as much about the crank, Deimter from rgv spares here in oz has seen also a few failures of the R crank.
I did find that rs cycles list the sp crank as available. Is that one place to source one? It does list for $950 USD. That's with the correct sp part No.
I did buy a refreshed crank from Rick from accu products for my tz. Maybe he can source one two.
I will defiantly contact martin77 when the time comes. Where is he based?
If I could end up around 60hp, that would be enough. But as stated have to concentrate on restoring everything else first, before power gains. But build the engine right first. When i get the coin of coarse. Some very trying times for us all worldwide at the moment. Everything on hold until this disaster passes.

James P

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2020, 03:47:02 AM »
I did find that rs cycles list the sp crank as available. Is that one place to source one? It does list for $950 USD. That's with the correct sp part No.

Adrian,

I just checked the Yamaha parts database and there are quite a few (20+) SP crankshafts (3XV-11400-12) in stock - recommended retail price is 108,460 Yen. You can buy OEM JDM parts direct from Japan via outfits like Webike and J-Parts. I have ordered via J-Parts on quite a few occasions and received good service.

I also saw this NOS crankshaft on Yahoo Auctions for 95,000 Yen (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s726822975), although it may end up more expensive than buying one at the RRP, depending on which agent you use (unless you know someone in Japan who can buy it for you!).

Regards,
James

Adriangp84

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2020, 10:28:32 AM »
Thanks a lot for that James.

AHAMAYfrank

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2020, 12:51:09 PM »
Adrian,. It is very interesting that I too have a 3YL and a 3XV.  I have had my TZ for about 2 years and my 3XV for 4. 

Both very fun, welcome aboard.

Frank
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 12:53:03 PM by AHAMAYfrank »
2017 Ducati SuperSport939S, 2005 Scorpa SY250R, 1991/2014 Yamaha TZR450F, 1991 Yamaha 3XV1, 1991 Yamaha 3YL, 1987 Suzuki RG500CH, 1985 Yamaha RZ500N, 1985 Honda NS400R, 1977 Yamaha TY250D, 1973 Yamaha AT-3 (for the runners).

Steveog

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Re: New member 3xv/3yl
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2020, 05:48:34 PM »
James has given you great intel. If you happen to live in the UK, Andy @ Webb's Yamaha in Lincolnshire can hook you up with a new SP crank. He offers a 10% discount* if you mention you're on this forum. I can recommend them, personally.

*That discount was in effect about 15 months ago. Covid may have effected that deal. Webb's may not even be open. It is worth a try, however.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the best game of all.