Author Topic: Trouble Engaging Neutral  (Read 188 times)

Steveog

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Trouble Engaging Neutral
« on: June 25, 2020, 12:03:04 AM »
This is fairly minor, but I've developed a problem finding neutral on my 3xv.The old clutch was that which came with the bike back in 2018. Those clutch plates were recently replaced with new ones from the YZ-125 and the springs with EBC, HD pieces. The clutch gives smooth engagement and the tranny shifts smoothly. Blipping downshifts is much more precise. But, it won't go into neutral while the engine is running. The free-play is on spec. The cable freshly lubed.

No, I did not disassemble the tranny.

If I kill the engine, finding the green light is easy.

Is this just a symptom of the clutch needing to be run-in longer?

I can probably play through this, but sitting on the grid holding the bike with the clutch can get be a bit of a problem.

Any suggestions welcomed.

Steve 
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SeaR1ck

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2020, 01:04:01 AM »
Welcome to the world of Yamaha's sometimes you need to rock the bike back n forth.

Warwick

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2020, 01:28:10 AM »
Probably just an adjustment issue, Steve. Try a little less play at the lever and see if that makes any difference.
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mellorp

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2020, 07:04:15 AM »
If you run the engine on the paddock stand

a - does the rear wheel spin with it in neutral
b - can you stop the wheel spinning with your hand
  - put it in gear and
a - does the rear wheel spin with it in gear and the clutch pulled in
b - can you stop the wheel spinning with your hand

 - when riding the bike can you find neutral then coast to a halt. I used this method on my RG5 (rubbish clutch) and a cheap solution
 
If none of the above reduce the free play to zero on the clutch lever and try again. That will prove if the clutch is properly disengaging. A bit like changing gear in the car (manual gearbox) without using the clutch. You match the speeds of the 2 gearbox shafts allowing it to change without needing to disengage them.

Failing that the way that neutral is found is via that little dimple in the selector mechanism. If that or the spring/mechanism is worn that could be your problem as any load from the gearbox/clutch spinning is probably not allowing it to do it's job. By turning the engine off you have stopped all spining motion
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yanw

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 10:39:51 AM »
First thing I check is chain slack adjustment.

SouthCoastRich

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2020, 12:35:42 PM »
On every new Ducati you can’t get neutral while at a standstill until it’s done about 500 miles, so your clutch could settle in and get better.

Preselecting neutral before coming to a stop is good advice.

Steveog

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2020, 09:12:08 PM »
Thanks to All. Great ideas.

Rick - I tried that. No joy.

Warwick - When I first rode with the new clutch, using the same free play as with the old clutch, the bike did jump when engaging first gear. When the free-play was adjusted tighter, the bike no longer lurched. There might be a touch of free-play left before running it completely tight. It's a good place to start.

Phil - Yes. Using the paddock stand test is a good idea. I always up-shift without the clutch. Downshift with throttle blipping. I'm pretty sure the shift drum is in good shape, as engaging neutral with the old clutch required no thought or special techniques. I try to engage neutral when coasting to a stop a very low speeds. Perhaps I should try catching neutral a moving a bit faster.

Yan - Interesting idea. If anything the chain has been slightly loose. Are you suggesting a tight chain could cause my problem?

Rich - Yeah, that was my thought. The new clutch just needs to bed in a bit. 

Lots to check out.

My best, gents.

Steve
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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2020, 09:29:46 AM »
u may have to pull the crank cases a[art sounds like a selector fork worn or bent or the groves in the gear drum burred (common) and y u can select neutral engine off is the drum doesnt rotate

mellorp

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2020, 10:11:41 AM »
u may have to pull the crank cases a[art sounds like a selector fork worn or bent or the groves in the gear drum burred (common) and y u can select neutral engine off is the drum doesnt rotate
It's a cassette gearbox. You don't need to pull the cases apart.
Mellion say If it ain't broke thrash it until it breaks

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2020, 07:08:41 PM »
i deal with 2rh models and mb3 models but the principal problem will both be the same regardless just be glad your model u havent got to open crank cases to get to the internal gearbox u lucky people >:(

Steveog

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2020, 08:24:48 PM »
The gear engagement and shifting quality on my 3xv is now noticeably smoother with the new clutch plates and springs. Neutral just won't engage with the engine running. I seriously doubt the the shifting mechanism was effected by the clutch upgrade. I haven't tested it since I posted this problem. Taking slack out of the cable adjustment seems to be the easiest to try first.

I had the gearbox apart last summer and have only put about 150 miles on the engine in anger since then. The shift forks and drum were in fine condition.

Thanks for your suggestion. All opinions are welcomed.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the best game of all.

Steveog

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Re: Trouble Engaging Neutral
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2020, 01:39:29 AM »
To all who offered diagnosis...thank you. After several tests and continuing adjustments here’s my summary:

- There obviously is a break-in thing going on with new clutch plates. Right on, Rick. The free-play is now set rather close (about 3mm). Engagement begins almost immediately and smoothly from a cold start. Good advice, Warwick.

- Finding neutral while slowing to a stop is now the way to go. Yes, Phil that’s how I’ll work with it for the approaching track day.

- Conclusion: After the track day, I’ll change the oil and analyze. Betting there’s a bit of clutch debris and dirt in the oil. Also, I’m confident that things will get a bit looser with a few violent miles on the new clutch plates. 

Basically, Problem solved. Thanks again gentlemen. A lot of common sense plus good ideas.

Steve
Brief, fleeting Glory. Which of itself cannot last, but while it does is the best game of all.