SUGO CDI for Borut... (ignition curves)

[jools]

You guys do seem to get clobbered........I think I paid $300 for my 9A unit. The previous -70 was about the same from memory. A 4DP one can be had much cheaper if its going to be used on the track its well worth the consideration.

[Warwick]

Hey, Jools. While dissing those 'bitches' you seem to have forgotten that you came pretty close to laying down £650 for a 'kit' 71 box all those years ago... .  Just sayin'...   .

[jools]

you seem to have a better memory than me................you sure that was me?
I remember a bit of banter about the -71 between you and another member on the old old forum.

But I couldn't see me paying 650 quid for one of those  (the small % of jock in my blood  )

[Warwick]

Pretty sure I remember answering some PMs about it? Asking if I thought it was legit etc...? I have aged significantly since then of course and am even slacker of mind nowadays, so lets say it must have been someone else....

As an aside, I think the box in question is still in the shop in fact if anyone's looking for a 71...

[jools]

carefull - you might start the topic off again 

[Warwick]

[Paul]

Well, the last Sugo unit I bought cost £220. The one before that £180...  I know of someone more recently who bagged one for £150... Are you saying that a prog and associated gubbins can be bought and set up for half of that? Dyno time alone is going to cost rather more than that I'd think? Once you add up all the other bits, the fittings and the dyno time, the costs seem to rack up quite significantly from what I've seen?   

As I've mentioned a thousand times, I think the progs are great of course - especially for those that like to experiment. I have no vested interest in either system personally, and as mentioned will probably try a prog myself at some point. But the progs just don't seem to me to be a particularly cost effective, easy or reliable option from what I've seen?

I didn't know that you had a Sugo for the 3XV though, Paul? I must have missed your posts on that? How did it go? Your 3XV seemed a bit lazy with the prog fitted from the dyno you posted a while back? Did you compare it back to back with the Sugo?         

Best of luck with it all as always, but the real irony here lies in the topic of this thread doesn't it?

No. No sugo. Both zeel and IGNITECH.
Updated my TZ page, the loom connector worked a treat. http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=269.msg9218#msg9218
I am stoked.
I have a strobe light that offsets for degrees so its a quick tdc and strobe, flat 15 curve and set the strobe to 15. The tdc marks should line up. I will use these same marks on a dyno to check for offset differences between cyls under load. Check PV cycles and PJ's.
Then, I will run a back to back. None of my wiring so far on other bikes has allowed me to do this

[jools]

I'm just curious Paul........

If you havn't compared it to the the Sugo box how do you know it is that much better?
especially with all the extra tinkering required, carbs, static adjustment etc.
What is to say the stock ignition would not have benefit from this amount of attention ?

[Paul]

Hi jools
Dan has said it already. So have I. Unless you are running exact kit parts and setup it is hit and miss with sugo. A slight difference in compression or back pressure will throw out your timing. Also fuels have changed since the 90's.
So why deny yourself that ability to work around changes.
Added to that you get a stronger spark. My guess is if borut could copy a sugo and you compared it back to back on a sugo bike you would see 3-4 extra HP and that is through efficiency alone.
I don't work for these guys who make igns. To me it is the best kept secret. It is not for everyone I realise. But I will keep trying to help guys that give it a go.
Are you considering it jools?

[EEKNOWS]

Dyno time is for optimising the ignition and PV curves, something that is impossible with standard ignitions. The fine tuning is what makes the difference(along with the spark energy) over standard ignitions. If they were not worthwhile they would have disappeared a long time ago.
Programmed stock curves in many times and seen gains, again the power valve curve is what makes the difference.

[jools]

That is correct but that goes for any system you change on a bike for performance gains - not just the ignition.

And I have to disagree to a certain point - my first 3XV had TZ pipes SP std carbs (no Sugo internals), -70 Sugo ignition and Powerflow porting and still put out 63HP at the back wheel.

Its not what you use but how you make it work together - optimising.

True, with the flexibility in adjustment of a modern ignition outputs have to improve but its like comparing apples & oranges init ?

[EEKNOWS]

Not the same Jools, you can't optimise a pipe on the dyno only swap it for another, ditto any other component. The igintion is the best way to tie any set up together.

[jools]

yes true Lozza, but if your carburation is up the shitta it isn't going to help.
One main jet size can make a hell of a difference, ditto Nozzles and Needles.

[Paul]

Ja. And if you amputate your right hand the bike won't go well either.

[casal-fan]

One main jet size can make a hell of a difference, ditto Nozzles and Needles.

Amen.
Nozzles and Needles, more, then one size main jet imo.
With that said programable ignitions, like eeknows says are an exellent way to squeeze a bit more performance, or achive that engine behaviour your looking for. Jetting can do that too, to a certain degree. It just takes many many hours testing and understanding what´s doing what.