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slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 17 2008,17:20 Hi guy's and girls I'm new here and to the two stroke game, I come from racing supermoto single four stroke machines. I have given up racing supermoto and turned to doing track days so I've just bought a TZR 250 V 3XV to which I'm in the process of turning into a track bike. I built alot of KTM race engines to which I'm going to slow down and get into the two stroke engine building. So I'm going to be asking a lot of questions as there seems to be so many type's of TZR bike out there. My engine building is a hobby and not a business just thought I would point that out. So hello to you all and hope to chat to you soon. Well I was told it is a Jap import so I hope that is good and not bad. Back to top

Mr stinkwheels Group: Members Posts: 206 Joined: May 2006 Posted: June 17 2008,19:09 Hi and welcome. That is a rather nice looking 3XV you have there. It looks like you have the 3XV-8 RS body kit on it which is about 1992 model, does your bike have the dry clutch or a wet clutch? It is a jap import, bad points being its restricted and some parts availability. Good points its a 3XV. How much did you pay for it and did you get any spares with it? Have fun. Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 17 2008,19:31 Welcome aboard. Thats the one from ebay, yes? As stinky says, it's got 92 RS model bodywork by the look of things, but it actually looks to be an R model. It must have been stripped down to the frame at some point as it's been polished. There's a post on this bike if you root back through tthe last few weeks I think - can't remember if we ended up properly identifying it, but it looks fine to me (my faveourite colourscheme in fact). It'd be worth tracking back through the existing posts and threads as most of your initial questions will probably be answered there. But it's a friendly place here, so any questions just pipe up and I'm sure people will be more that happy to help. Hope you enjoy it. Wb -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 17 2008,20:14 Well thanks guy's I feel at home already It was off ebay and it turned out to be a really small world. I was looking at RGV koff koff because a mate of mine used to race them. And then he said the his brother in law was sell his tzr so I went around and wave £1500 under his nose and the rest is history. I will have a look for that thread about it cheers. So how do I know if it is still restricted? Then how do you de-restrict it? Cheers Glyn Back to top

jools Group: Members Posts: 1221 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: June 17 2008,22:33 Just look at the CDI number under the seat hump ! Welcome on board they can be frustrating but well worth the effort and many TZ engine parts will fit which makes life easier. Best handling STD 250 you will find out there. Parts can be sourced quite cheap from the USA but because of the wonderful VAT system and the keeness of Customs and Excise its not always worth the effort ! We don't have that problem here in Oz - YET !! -------------- "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about...." oscar Wilde Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 17 2008,22:45 CDI number is 3xv-00 dose that tell me the year, model or dose it tell me how to de-restrict it? Sorry it's all new to me. If anyone want's to know about KTM engines them I can help you there Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 18 2008,00:14 Sounds like you have a 91 R model in 92 RS clothing (which is no bad thing at all) The 3XV R isnt 'restricted' in a straightforward way as such; the whole package was specifically designed to make very good use of the 45hp allowed by Japanese law at the time. I have posted pretty extensively on how we got mine singing pretty nicely and I dont have the time to repeat it all here, so have a look through the back posts - you'll find dyno graphs and full descriptions there. It isn't a case of simply banging a washer out of the exhaust or whatever though, and it will cost you a fair amount of money and/or hard work to win good power (60bhp plus) from the motor. Basically you need to sort out Porting, pipes and ignition. Do those and even with the rest of the stock R kit (carbs etc) you can make very good power, but it does require a bit of effort and application. Cheers Wb -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 18 2008,08:08 Quote (Warwickb @ June 17 2008,23:14) Sounds like you have a 91 R model in 92 RS clothing (which is no bad thing at all) The 3XV R isnt 'restricted' in a straightforward way as such; the whole package was specifically designed to make very good use of the 45hp allowed by Japanese law at the time. I have posted pretty extensively on how we got mine singing pretty nicely and I dont have the time to repeat it all here, so have a look through the back posts - you'll find dyno graphs and full descriptions there. It isn't a case of simply banging a washer out of the exhaust or whatever though, and it will cost you a fair amount of money and/or hard work to win good power (60bhp plus) from the motor. Basically you need to sort out Porting, pipes and ignition. Do those and even with the rest of the stock R kit (carbs etc) you can make very good power, but it does require a bit of effort and application. Cheers Wb Cheers Warwick I knew it would be more the just unplugging something LOL. I'll read over your post's but I guess the main thing is where do I fined out what the SP port profile is it's things like that I get stumped on. More than happy to do the work enjoy it   really but don't know the first place to look at the mo. Thanks for your help Glyn Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 18 2008,20:14 All my SP (and SP copy) barrels are fitted to motors at the moment, so I can't easily get you any measurements.  Can anyone else help out here with SP port measurements? THought I had an SP portmap somewhere but I can't seem to find it just now. If you have suitable porting tools and can use them effectively, you should be able to do the work yourself (though the auxiallary exhaust ports are fiddly to get at - and you'll need to mod the Powervalves too really - there's quite a bit to take off to mimic SP porting). If you dont have the kit/time/skills, I can heartily recommend the porting work of Martin77 who frequents this board. He's a whiz with 3XV cyls and did the work on mine. Cheers Wb -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 18 2008,20:29 Quote (Warwickb @ June 18 2008,19:14) All my SP (and SP copy) barrels are fitted to motors at the moment, so I can't easily get you any measurements.  Can anyone else help out here with SP port measurements? THought I had an SP portmap somewhere but I can't seem to find it just now. If you have suitable porting tools and can use them effectively, you should be able to do the work yourself (though the auxiallary exhaust ports are fiddly to get at - and you'll need to mod the Powervalves too really - there's quite a bit to take off to mimic SP porting). If you dont have the kit/time/skills, I can heartily recommend the porting work of Martin77 who frequents this board. He's a whiz with 3XV cyls and did the work on mine. Cheers Wb Cheers Warwick Might get Martin 77 to do them for me and have a look to see what it's all about. Four stroke heads I can do but two stroke is more of an art than a skill I think. Thanks for your help Glyn Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 18 2008,20:37 Lol. With that approach Martin's likely to tell you f*ck off! He isn't really into the game commercially, so if you ask nicely he may agree to do them, but it will be more as a favour than a purely commercial  exchange. That's not to say that he wouldn't want paying of course You might have been better off talking to him about pipes before springing for the Nikons too... In my own experience (which is not necessarily definitive of course) his design work better than the Nik's - and are cheaper (if you can talk him into doing a set) to boot.   Good luck Wb -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 18 2008,21:43 Ye just read it again and I'd say second word is off as well Martin 77 it's not meant as it reads. Not looking to nick your ideas just trying to learn how it works. I'm the same build KTM engines as a hoddy but not for free so I wouldn't aspect anything for nothing. Glyn Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 18 2008,22:28 Lol, sorry Glyn I think you misunderstand. I only meant that Martin isn't really a commercial tuner and I think he finds it a bit irritating when people assume that he is, and that he's always open to any business that people may deign to throw his way. He's just as happy tending his veggies (more so mostly I think). It's more that kind of stuff that gets on his wick really I think. He's pretty forthcoming on sharing info etc.  If I can find that SP portmap I'll throw it up here, but I think it's actually buried among the past posts somewhere, so you might root it out before I do in any case. As you'll have figured from going through the past posts, my own approach to 'de-restricting' the 3XV was to match as closely as possible the top end to the much more businesslike SP porting (or rather to ask Martin to do that technical stuff) fit some decent pipes - originally some Japanese SP Tadao Jackals - later replaced by Martin's improved design, and, in my case, to mate that with the RC Sugo CDI. As you'll have seen from the old posts you can get pretty good power with the stock -00 CDI when mated to the SP spec top end and good pipes, but the Sugo CDI makes quite a bit of difference, so in my view is essential really.  What all that means though is that the costs of doing the job properly do tend to add up somewhat. You could easily spend over a grand on pipes, porting and a Sugo CDI (assuming you can find one) I'd think. And that assumes you take the risk of pushing all that power through the R model crank - which I'd be a bit concerned about myself.  The SP crank certainly looks far more up to the job in any case. My tip would be to take you time a bit, and research things well before flinging your hard earned at it. For many it would seem a lot easier and cheaper if they want a quick trackday 250 to simply buy a Priller RS or an RGV or whatever. But for me that misses the point. Cheers Wb -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 18 2008,23:56 Quote (Warwickb @ June 18 2008,21:28) My tip would be to take you time a bit, and research things well before flinging your hard earned at it. For many it would seem a lot easier and cheaper if they want a quick trackday 250 to simply buy a Priller RS or an RGV or whatever. But for me that misses the point. Cheers Wb Got it in a nut shell there Warwick I get P*ssed off with peeps PMing about KTM's my mate said you will build me an engine. Don't get me wrong I love building them but I know what your saying. I've had good results from a standard 510cc single bore out and coat to 540cc cams change the carb some of my head work and I've give you 62bhp at the back wheel from a standard 47bhp. Then there's the 612 I do 74bhp at the back wheel bit of a beast on a 95kg bike but that's what I used to race. So you might guess I love to build engines and seeing where you can take them. I'm sure a few will go pop but that's tuning engines you don't no until you find the limit. But as for now I've got Mallory in August with the Nikkon pipes to see how it goes then I'll have a play but one thing at a time. Glyn Back to top

martin77 martin77 Group: Members Posts: 453 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 19 2008,10:44 Hello....I'm not quite as fickle as Wb would make out...though it's true I'd rather spend an afternoon in the garden than hammering out another set of pipes... The SP portmap from the -10 cylinders; Personally I'd stick to 41mm for the exhaust width though, for the sake of ring life. But, if you're running nikon pipes and the stock 00 cdi, then I'd go for a halfway tune, somewhere between the stock R porting and the SP, plus skim the head a bit to get squish down to 0.7-1mm. The more extreme porting doesn't seem to suit the 00cdi and you end up with a peaky top end, which isn't as pleasant as having the smoother powerband, despite the slighty lower power. (SkinuthBilly has this spec) Nikon's are simply lightweight versions of the stock pipes, although they do seem to improve power a touch. Anyway Glyn..if you ask nicely I could port some cylinders for you...PM me if you're interested.... Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 19 2008,14:36 Lol who said anything about being 'fickle'? 'Miserable bugger' would be the term I'd use -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

martin77 martin77 Group: Members Posts: 453 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 19 2008,15:39 yeah.....I won't disagree with that.... Back to top

slinger Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 19 2008,23:39 Martin Thanks for that it's a great help Back to top

jools Group: Members Posts: 1221 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: June 26 2008,09:28 Here is another map: -------------- "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about...." oscar Wilde Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 26 2008,11:25 Martin's is the more accurate for stock 3XV-10 cyls I'd say. I suspect the other one is either a tuned SP barrel or has been measured a little sloppily - especially the exhaust - perhaps? Though that is pretty close to where my own modded R barrel porting is nowadays ( though teh exhaust isn't quite so wide) - after I defied Martin's perma-raised eyebrows and went a bit more radical on the exhaust while he wasn't looking - and that seems to work pretty well. Exhaust area and timing might be a bit much for a road motor though. It'd perhaps be a bit too much of a of a ring eater to make a good, reliable everyday roadbike? Cheers Wb -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

martin77 martin77 Group: Members Posts: 453 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: June 26 2008,20:13 Those measurements are even more extreme than TZ cylinders....  certainly no standard 3XV-10 cylinders are like that. I suspect it's been taken from a port rubbing, which is always a recipe for disaster in my book.... Back to top

jools Group: Members Posts: 1221 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: June 27 2008,01:44 I'm not sure where it came from to be honest. I was trawling through some old stuff when I came across it so thought it might provoke some discussion here !!! it does have the guys ID on it - come forward and explain yourself   -------------- "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about...." oscar Wilde Back to top

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