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Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 03 2008,12:35 As I understand it the TPS sends the signal to the CDI from which it controls the solenoids on the -00 CDI (on the Sugo boxes I think the powerjet solenoids are primarily simply RPM controlled, but they may also draw info from the TPS too?). If they're 'clicking' OK though then this would suggest that the TPS is working OK. I don't know how to check if it's 'synched' correctly though? They normally have a security paint mark on the security screws on the adjustment plate on the back though so it should be apparent if it's been moved at any time. The TPS seems to have an influence on PV position too. Do you have the Sugo internals for the 36s (2.5 cut out slide and the sugo needle and 'jet setter' and needle-jet set-up)? If not you could try simply soldering up the holes in the stock SP nozzles and working on the mid-throttle fuelling by adjustments to the stock needle? I run a 3.5 slide in my TZ carbs though and it's no problem so you'll probably be OK with the stock SP slide. Been meaning to try this DIY 'Sugo' internals approach myself so it'd be intersting to see how you get on if you go that route. -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

jools Group: Members Posts: 1221 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Nov. 03 2008,12:42 DAz statically with ignition on turning the throttle will work the TPS which sends a signal to the CDI. It then operates the air solenoids as you can hear them click. Once the motor is running I'm not sure what the operating points are but if you have no TPS signal they probably won't operate. Without wiring LED's to each solenoid to tell when they turn on there is no real way. But again the Sugo might operate the rear solenoids but doesn't have any circuitry to operate the front ones. The sugo CDI is designed to be used with the Sugo loom. There is an adaptor that will plug into the standard R loom that connects the rear solenoid 3 way plug to connect with the power jets. I have one and I could probably knock one up if interested, but unless you have the carbs there is little point. My reasoning is that the sugo is designed to fit an SP that has the carbs and powerjets and was never considered as fitment to the standard 3XV. -------------- "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about...." oscar Wilde Back to top

cyclenut Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Nov. 03 2008,15:33 I modified my R wiring harness to drive the powerjets on the SP motor.  I adapted the air solenoid wiring to drive the powerjets.(I had to custom-fit some connectors). I monkeyed around trying to figure out when they were energizing.  Its really pretty easy, just put a multimeter on the connector and drive around.  You could do the same with the air solenoid setup.   Set your meter for DC voltage (0-12V).  Don't crash watching the meter   I never have found air solenoids to have much influence on overall power though. Good luck, Erin Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 03 2008,15:40 Perhaps the easiest way to check this stuff out to an extent would be to simply unhook the variable air jet solenoids electronically, which will leave them with just the 'always on' central jet in the solenoid unit block providing a consistent amount of air for the air bleed on both cyls? Logically that would prevent any additional  or inconsistent 'leaning off' via the air-bleeder nozzles - thus indicating if the varaible bleed is actually presenting any kind of problem (I should have tried this myself really, but as I had no problems I didn't bother). You could even experiment with different amounts of air bleed by simply inserting different size jets in the air bleed hose from the carb if you wanted?   Personally I tend to think that 'a carb is a carb' pretty much really, and I don't think there's any reason at all why the Sugo ignition would cause problems with any carb really so long as it is jetted correctly for the application . The bigger carbs certainly seem better for ultimate power at the top end, but the little 28s work surprisingly well in my experience - as illustrated in the dyno runs above and elsewhere. The Sugo CDI only operates the powerjet solenoids at the very top of the rev range - effectivley to lean off the mix at the top end to give more overrev. It can't affect carburation anywhere else in the range as far as I can tell . And I suspect it makes very little difference if the powerjets are plugged in electronically or not unless the set-up is absolutley bob-on - certainly below about 11.5k in any case. The sugo loom is just a stripped-down loom with no privision for road gubbins really. There's no voodoo in it - It's just wires that conduct electricty. As long as the spark plugs and the powervalve servo are getting the info they need, I don't think the loom itself can make any real difference - unless I'm missing something fundamental here? For what it's worth I don't currently run the powerjets connected (electronically) on my TZ carbs - unconnected, the PJs are 'always open', meaning that I don't get the leaning off right at the top. I may experiment with connecting them up at some point, but the bike makes ample power and revs for my needs. Once I've finished the winter rebuild I'll get it on the dyno and see how it's doing. -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

jamietzr250r Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: Jan. 2007 Posted: Nov. 03 2008,23:38 Quote (Warwickb @ Oct. 19 2008,22:15) What we do now know is this: SP spec porting + good pipes + Sugo Cdi + a bit of fiddling with the mains in the stock R type 28mm carbs  = job done for R owners . A perfectly flexible, compliant and road-usable, but much more powerful 3XV from a stock bike with relatively little major work really. And if you forgo the Sugo ignition you can still pretty easily see high fifties as we've seen, which is a pretty major improvement on a stocker. Jesus Christ!!! at last an answer i needed i've been following this thread with interest and to be honest wonder!, i did not have a clue about some of the stuff being put on here but this has cleared it up now. so the next question is how much? i know martin does the work but how long a turn around and cost? thanks guys interesting read if somewhat technical -------------- IF YOU HAVEN'T FALLEN OFF YET THEN YOU WEREN'T GOING FAST ENOUGH. tzr250r 3xv1 (on road) rd80/125 lc hybrid (nearly) rd125lc mk2 (project) tzr50r(4eu)7.2ps (project) Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,00:34 Lol.  It's a techincal business Jamie. But yeah maybe we need a 'nerds corner' on the forum to keep us obsessive freaks away from the general public? . That stuff isn't really new though. I've been posting the same old sh*te for a couple of years or so. In view of the problems Daz is having with the Sugo box though you might be better off just going the porting and pipes route but sticking with the -00 CDI rather than stumping up for a Sugo one. At least until we get to the bottom of why his set-up isn't liking the Sugo box.  The Porting and pipes should give you mid to high fifties with no other mods and will certainly make the bike feel a lot fitter. You'd need to speak to Martin about the details, but he does an excellent job and is very reasonable I'd say. If you happen to have an RVF400 front end kicking around you could maybe even barter with him... -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

jools Group: Members Posts: 1221 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,04:06 All we need now is a Jap techno buff with an expert mastery of the english language to tell us we are all talking bollox !! Seriously though if there is one out there reading this .......................step forward   -------------- "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about...." oscar Wilde Back to top

martin77 martin77 Group: Members Posts: 453 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,12:02 I'll PM you Jamie Back to top

Yatsushiro Prayin' For Rain... Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: July 2004 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,19:22 Quote (jools @ Nov. 04 2008,02:06) All we need now is a Jap techno buff with an expert mastery of the english language to tell us we are all talking bollox !! Seriously though if there is one out there reading this .......................step forward   You're all talking borrox, especially Warwick-san   -------------- Oddball Racer, #44 Generously assisted by Links Engineering Motive power by Martin77 Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,20:39 Then please enlighten us, Confucious Actually, I've got it! we should all fit TDR motors   -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

martin77 martin77 Group: Members Posts: 453 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,21:16 Quote (Warwickb @ Nov. 04 2008,18:39) Actually, I've got it! we should all fit TDR motors   That's the best idea you've had in a long while.... Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 04 2008,22:33 Lol. You two should be on the telly. Saturday night's just aren't the same since Little and Large went off the air Now, about Daz's 3XV... Can you two comedians offer any useful pointers as to why it ain't working as it should? It's very easy to wise-crack from the sidelines, but rather more difficult to offer constructive pointers -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

Yatsushiro Prayin' For Rain... Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: July 2004 Posted: Nov. 05 2008,00:24 Sorry, Wb, I'll get me coat ! Meet you outside, Martin, where we can talk TDR's... -------------- Oddball Racer, #44 Generously assisted by Links Engineering Motive power by Martin77 Back to top

Warwickb Group: Members Posts: 1911 Joined: Sep. 2003 Posted: Nov. 05 2008,00:34 I'll have you both in detention if there's any more of that lip. I've got plenty of books to mark you know... You can talk TDR's to your hearts content after class. Mr. B -------------- A garage overflowing with old stinkers... Back to top

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