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That funny middle bit makes sense to me. Its almost got parallel walls which will make it leaner from idle to say 1/2 throttle looking at it. It looks like yamahas answer to the rich midrange that 3ma's can suffer.

Do you see what i mean louis?

Dan

Yes, that is what I thought to.

But the dimensions of the needle are the same (what I can measure) only the middle section is different.

Looking from top to bottom.


-First part 3ma3 needle is the same as a 3ma1 needle
-Then (red section) 3ma3 needle its smaller compare to the 3ma1 needle (with section I mean from red line to jump (green) point)
-Then (green) 3ma3 needle is the jump section
-Then (red section) 3ma3 needle is smaller compare to the 3ma1 needle (with section I mean from red line to jump (green) point)
-Then the 3ma3 is the same as the 3ma1 only the 3ma1 needle goes further (longer)

Louis

Very informative Louis! Cheers

Dan

Hi Louis

I never really looked at it but there is almost no difference between the needles accept for that tiny section in the middle which will only effect a very small portion of the throttle position.

It seems pointless putting a 3ma3 needle in my 3ma1 then because all it will be doing is affecting a very small bit of the throttle range, where my bike is rich from 5500rpm-7000rpm at all throttle positions so logically the needle might help to get the bike past that rich point but only at a certain throttle position and not all throttle positions.

I will still try the 3ma3 needle to see what happens.


Luke

Hi Guys;

Will run the bike with pv disconected just one more question if you switch on the ignition the pv on the 3ma3 will be open


Edd

Edd,

From memory I would say yes, after duty cycle its open. The open position is where the hole lines up with the pv pulley hole/notch.



Hello Luke,

Perhaps I have been typing it somewhere wrong
But I mean you could try a 3ma3 needle jet its the first part where the needle goes in to.
It sits on top of the emulsion tube.

edd
i hate to say it but, it can happen that you need AIR and think its fueling (it is in a way as it is all about mixture)

the needle thing is a big one to, they are prone to needle hassles, like i said i cannot go a clip up or down.

did you re-fit your airboxes? think logically about your bike and what you have done to it from where it starts to suck air all the way to exiting the reed cage.

when you get to 8500, when you are on a nice safe piece of road, pull the choke up, does it help or make it worse?
if you try to get up to those revvs without opening the throttle too wide, like bleed it on, can you get past 8500?

see where i am heading? try to find out if it's too much fuel or too little.

if too much, remove the foam filter, have you cleaned it lately, is it too full of oil? i dont oil mine like a dirt bike, i have a spray tin of filter oil and when fitted give it the slightest misting. give it a short burst and check plug.

you sound quite small on mains to me. maybe watchout. sure you are not sucking air?

Hi Guys;

Sorry for the confusion but I am busy setting up a 3ma3. When the post initially started I was busy with a 3ma1 but got it sorted waiting for my needle jets and air jets to complete the conversion and fit ndwedwes zeel soon to be mine . I have a 3ma3 also which I have copmpleted jus a few weeks back which will be in the market end of winter in yamaha r1 aneversary colours . So trying to get the bike running to start all the cleaning and polishing for the sale.

Bike is stock standard 3ma3 the exhaust silencers has been modified they removed the insides of the silencer. The only change is the 3ma1 needle which I will remove tomorrow and replace original. Rest of the bike is standard air box etc. I have brand new air cleaner fitted saturday didnt oil it yet waiting to get bike running properly. Snorkles were cut as per modification paper. The exhaust however still have the ring or lip on the inside but I read the 3ma3 exhaust intake diameter is already sufficient size I also sealed the reed valves on saturday and removed the connection tube as suggested. The only things I havent re-checked was the crank one way valves

So will check power valves and crank one way valves my experience tells me carburetors I have done 5 bikes now and it is always carburetor once it was the flywheel problem but always the carbs see Lukes problem as well carbs I really hope it is the powervalve that will give me something else to fix on a 3ma

Thanks for your inputs

But I mean you could try a 3ma3 needle jet

Right, I obviously read it wrong somewhere with all this 3ma1/3 stuff going on

that sounds allot more logical, will no doubt try them.

thanks Louis

I am positive my overflowing problem is no longer Have to test tomorrow to confirm.

Unfortunately I couldn't take a picture because my camera is cheap.

The plastic bit that the rubber tip seals against was worn out. it was about 1.5x bigger than a non worn one. Quite crazy how worn it actually is, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was accidentally snapped off by someone.

Be careful with the PV motor

If the motor strains too much it can overload and toast the PV controller. Had this on a RD350YPVS, PV motor was on its way out and blew 2 powervalve controllers (£££££££££) before I realised what the fault really was

thanks for the warning, I will keep a close eye on it.

Hi Gents;

Thanks for the help you got me straight to the problem guys.

I have removed the necessary panels to see whats up with my pv motor, and I am shamed to say I have never set the pv (getting to old) way too much play on both cables will fix it over the weekend. Then we can see if I get to 11500 rpm I have the left carb 200 mains right carb 210 mains with 3ma3 needles back in carbs on clip 3 think she will be a little rich but will definetly know on the weekend whats up. Will start all testing from scratch with vaj on seeing that I am going to sell this baby so might as well give the new owner all the parts Will have the last bits of the fairing this weekend as well will post a pic cost me R3500 for the spray job and stickers so I guess it beats R5000 from china.

Edd

out of interest edd, do you do this for a living? which lucky bike gets the zeel?

Well It wasnt suppossed to be so many bikes. (it never is) I bought a 3ma3 from cape town and restored her to original. It was such a nice bike figured I needed a track bike so I bought my first basket case totally stripped nothing was attached to anything. Started fixing her up as a long term project. My father decided he also wants in so he bought two from welkom also basket cases. So we traded spares and proceeded to fix two track bikes. A friend at a bike shop saw my 3ma3 and said hey I have one in the back can you fix it I said no problem. He offered to give me another damaged basket case and racing leathers to fix his bike. I ended up with two bikes so my dad reads about crank seize and the effects of what happens and he gives me both his bikes lost all trust in two strokes. So I ended up completeing his 3ma1 selling it, then my friends wifes bike at the bike shop a 3ma1. Started to do a naked version with my son trying to get it running properly at present. I think it is the cdi so it is getting the zeel a 3ma1. And now the next one a 3ma3 up for sale to pay for all the parts I am buying to get them up and running. Jip that leaves me with my track Bike which is still in the attick. So that makes 4 of which 3 was mine excluding my first one from cape town. Lets just say my next project will not be a 3ma unless she is a 3ma4 now that I will spend some serious money to restore.

Edd

Edd, you have stolen my idea or maybe I have stolen your idea. Restore a few 3ma's, get to know them and all the tricks to them and then finally get my self a 3ma4 SP to keep and restore as in every last nut and bolt.

tested for overflowing and nothing so I can safely say I am now onto some serious tuning. The bike is still very rich at 5500rpm to 7000rpm, but after that it pulls hard and strong no problem.

I will drill out my 50 air jets to 90's as Ndwedwe suggested to put in 90's otherwise I could face a horrid boom!!!
My setup will then become more rich but no doubt still be rich at 5500-7000rpm.
I am thinking of dropping the needles by one notch which will put them one up from the leanest position and after that swapping needle jets.

Anyone have a better Idea or any suggestions.

Ndwedwe; what is your setup

if I remember correctly:

90 air jets
260 left, 270 right (mains)
needle middle position
needle type: 3ma1
needle jet 3ma1 or 3ma3 ???

Luke 3MA wrote:90 air jets
260 left, 270 right (mains)
needle middle position
needle type: 3ma1
needle jet 3ma1 or 3ma3 ???

yes to all the above except needle jet, cant remember but to say the bike was stock standard delux and untouched and i never changed it, safe to assume 3MA1.

i was up working on my CDI and PV curve for my 3MA last night, the one i did the 63hp with was not perfect once plotted, i have gone for a safer rounder curve with 9000 onwards the untouched so hopefully i dont change the 63 ponies but loose some of the heat in lower revs. gotta keep your eye on that.

i rekon with your altitude, hang on luke, you moved to cape town? so you should like the 0.9 (try block your oneway valve until your new one arrives, tell me if it improves things) and edd up there in transvillievaalie land could go 1.0. the VAJ helped as i think it switched all on up to 6500 or so then the small one 0.5 was on all the time?? cant recall now.

Hi Ndwedwe

I blocked the one way valves and went for a ride, mostly because I wanted to hit the powerband once again

It had no noticeable effect on the richness at 5500-7000rpm.

I will be getting a 0.9mm drill bit soon so I can drill out my 50's to 90's and stick with them just to be safe.

Otherwise the plugs are looking spot on golden brown. So the only problem is 5500-7000rpm. top end at all throttle positions is perfect. bottom end to about 5000rpm is also perfect all throttle positions.

Luke
Like I said. They all have a 5000-7000 problem with richness. I found if you have been riding slow for a few minutes, say traffic and have had to stop at a light or 2. When you get going she pulls nice up to 5000 or so then the spluttering. There is enough fuel in the crank, what I do is as it starts happening I close the throttle slightly and it pulls through better. After that it is fine until you do more slow riding and idling.
Tell me. Do you feel you have a delay on throttle response?

Tell me. Do you feel you have a delay on throttle response?

not that I know of, no.

About that idling or riding slow for a bit story, whenever I try to get past the richness at 7000rpm after I have been idling or as you say riding slow, it still stays rich for a wile after that, I have to twist the throttle a few times or change gear and then it pulls fine. I made a quick camera mount just to hear the bike (it is a rear view), so I will go for a ride and upload the vid to youtube.

If you lower your needle does it blow the whole jetting out of proportion.
Are you in cape town. Might need a small favour

I haven't tried lowering my needle yet, I think that's what I will try today.

I have sent you a pm