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After many hours on the web, trying to find an ignition map for the 00unit, these are the results:





Both pictures found in links refeered to in this forum... wich probably means, here is the best place to look.
Strange maybe, that there is so limited info on the 3XV timing map. Having many different types ignition boxes certainly does not help, but other strokers from the era have very well documented maps on the web...

Nevertheless, based on the 2 pics above (mostly on the first one) I tryed to map the ignition at full throttle.
Assuming full throttle from 0RPM is about 18*, as pic2 would suggest. This is my best shot trying to make a 2D map. AND IT IS ALL WRONG (edit 27.06.2012)


Now, if someone has a more realistic map from credible sorce, or even any reference at all, it would be very helpful... because, if this is anywhere close to reality, then it doesn´t look too good.

Any opinions much apreciated, thanks.

Easy done
0-1500 15
1600-7500 30
8500 24
9500 20
10,000 18
11,500 14
11800 8
12000 5

Good generic curve

I doubt it is as you plotted
Base advance is 21
I spent months trying to get my 3xv right over 10500 before I learnt the heads were way wrong, this after wasting masses of time with a zeel and the previous wiring diagram, sorted now of course.
I rekon it is flatter as fotis has it and purposely signs off at 10500 or so.
What are you trying to do? I now have 2 curves that work. A radical one and the one I use. Similar to eeknows's reply.

EEKNOWS, thanks for the reply. That curve sure has the looks. (Actually I have something very similar as one of the favorites on another bike, wich you also helped with). But, that requires aftermarket ignition.
Ndwedwe. I have read the long thread about ignition a couple of times now. It is great source of information, and a real effort, but it is mostly about aftermarket, not std.
As I wrotte, the picture I posted isn´t by any means one I see as totally correct. It is just an effoth trying to put some numbers on the graph yamaha released as ignition curve for the 00box.
You mention "fotis". That name ressonates in my head as a person that has posted on several times on electric/electronic related threads on several forums with really valuable inputs.
The reason I´m trying to get an exact picture of the 00box curve, is because I have a bike wich I´ll rebuild from scratch. It is a bike I have desired for a very long time, and now, because it is in a very sorry state, I would like make minor improvements to the std. parts, to try and get a bit more power out of it.
For that to be achived, I think it is necessary to know how the std. design is. Cylinders, porting, head, ignition, pipe, PV opening timing, fueling... and the 3XV is tottaly new to me. I don´t know it.
Only when I understand how the std. setup works, can start making small changes that could bring the bike in the direction I desire.
All this, using std. parts. I have another 2stroke toy where I burry a lot of money on parts every year. Not gonna happen with this one. It is not the goal, neither I can afforth it.

One exe. on why I would like to know more about the bikes set-up.
Looking at the yamaha curve.
The lowest advance point is 8000RPM. That coincides with max. torq. Lets say ones tryes to shift max. torq by porting or altering the pipe, or these 2 together, say to 9000RPM.
Then, and according to the yamaha graph, the ignition would be more adanced there.
Depending on dinamic compression created by the pipe effeciency together with static compression used... it would naybe be dangerous shifting max torq to the 9000RPM area... also, it would probably result in a dip at 8000RPM.
This is only an exe. of some of the thinking going on It is something I enjoy... analysing... most of the times, it doesn´t go very good

Hi Rui,
pls. have in mind that the bike was designed only for the japanese market and its legislation. During that time the 250 cc's were allowed to have max 45 HP (later only 40 HP) and only the SP was designed to get power out of the engine for using it at the F3 races. So the stock ignition curve goes along with the R porting and the other restrictions to keep max 45 horses. The SUGO curves will look very different and fit perfectly to the SP porting and the pipes...
Juergen

41juergen wrote:Hi Rui,
pls. have in mind that the bike was designed only for the japanese market and its legislation. During that time the 250 cc's were allowed to have max 45 HP (later only 40 HP) and only the SP was designed to get power out of the engine for using it at the F3 races. So the stock ignition curve goes along with the R porting and the other restrictions to keep max 45 horses. The SUGO curves will look very different and fit perfectly to the SP porting and the pipes...
Juergen

Yes Juergen. I am aware of the 45HP restrictions, wich many have documented as a pain (or even impossible) to overcome.
But hey... playing engine developer, even if sometimes ending up with bad results... its part of the fun.

Good luck. BTW the aftermarket cdi's are quite cheap and are the quickest way to getting a bike that you can work sensibly on. If you enjoy enjoy long hard slogging and frustration you'll have a fine time with the original cdi!!

I have it in memory that the 2nd graph you posted was from fotis. But in 3 years time newer members might think it was you. Saying I am very possibly wrong.
Then there was froos: http://www.froos.com/bikes/cdi/CDI-sugo.htm a wealth of information

Ndwedwe wrote:I have it in memory that the 2nd graph you posted was from fotis. But in 3 years time newer members might think it was you. Saying I am very possibly wrong.
Then there was froos: http://www.froos.com/bikes/cdi/CDI-sugo.htm a wealth of information

This is a quote from the post where I included the pictures:
"Both pictures found in links refeered to in this forum... wich probably means, here is the best place to look." This was written deliberatly, so that people that not yet have seen that picture are aware it is not mine.
Not trying to get credit for work someone else has done.

About an aftermarket CDI vs the std. 00 CDI, you are so very right. No matter if it is the curve I posted, or the curve shown in the second picture on the first post... it´s rubbish.

As there was some interess from other members about this topic, here it goes.

An analysis of the 00 map published on the manual:



And a graph made from the mesurements above. It is not 100% accurate, but an intrepretation by me of the 3D map, thats it.
Graph nr.2 in the picture has 4 curves
0TPS curve and 100TPS, switching to 0TPS curve after 8000RPM
The upper set of curves, the same as above with 3* more static advance.

As you can guess, safe to go 3deg however a very gay curve with max advance is 22 deg