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running in complete

went out today with the float levels set at 5-6mm and seemed ok, with no leaks until I started to actually rev the bike. richness starts at 5500rpm and ends at 7000rpm. I can just get past 7000rpm and when I do, all I can say is holy shit . going from stumbling along at 6500rpm to racing down the road at 7000 to 11500rpm is absolute madness.

I love 3ma's


So still need to fix the overflow problem, I think it might be the o-rings not sealing properly. will check tomorrow

Hi Luke

What do you mean holly shit lol It goes like a freight train Al I can add It is Lekka bike isnt it! Going to take mine out for a night ride you have just persuaded me.

The old forum had the exact sice o'ring in one of the posts and I cant recall. Jip they will continiously change their caracteristics in the fuel seal later and later. Problem is you also need the needle replaced. Yamaha sells them at R 400 a piece (plastic unit with needle). As a rule I replace those because setting float levels every day or getting to the bike and the tank is empty because the fuel valves also have a tendancy to start leaking.

All the best in getting past the rich spot probably 250 mains but then you will be where I am. No Good. I suggest to get q4 needles in with 3ma3 needle jets like Louis suggested.

Edd

Excellent.
Listen luke. They are downright lousy in that rev range.
All you can do in make sure your 1 way valves under your inlet manifolds are working and if you are fine under 5k and over 7k that is about it. Careful of too big a FAJ and this will raise piston crown temps and it will be erratic.
Not my bike but the secret is in the size of your FAJ.
I settled on 0.9mm. I drilled out a soldered up one.
3MA does rule. What a great bike. So sad it was only around 2 years of production.

What do you mean holly shit

It goes like a freight train

that is just what I mean, It goes like mad.

I suggest to get q4 needles in with 3ma3 needle jets like Louis suggested.

I think once I have cured the overflowing problem I will try lowering the needle by 1 notch and try 250's. If I cant get it better from that I will try the 3ma3 needle jets and or 3ma3 needles.

Ndwedwe;

I have ordered a one way valve from Yamaha and I am awaiting its arrival so the faulty one will be replaced soon.

I have 130 FAJ's in at the moment, what do you think, should I be worried about piston crown temp or is 130's fine. I will drill out my 50's from the VAJ system to 100's and put them in if I need to.

3MA does rule. What a great bike. So sad it was only around 2 years of production.

the 2 years for me is actually a good point, higher selling prices and a very special uncommon bike that not many people own because of this otherwise it would just be another day to day bike that everyone has.

i posted this stuff before somewhere, with a EGT i noticed the temps would run wild (and erratic, not every time), if you rounded off on say 130km/hr and are just holding it around 1/8-1/4 throttle, the temp would sometimes climb and then nothing you could do would stop it, it was as if it was going into self-destruct mode. mine just climbed and i watched it 980, 1000, 1040, 1085, 1130, 1175, 1195, 1205, 1220, 1235, 1250, 1260, sh1t!! i pulled the choke and let it come down. it did it again on the way home, this time i tried to stop it with the throttle, no way, it just kept climbing
that was on a 1.2mm AJ
so i soldered and installed a 1.1mm, not completely satisfied i went down to 0.9 (ahem, i broke the 1mm drill bit) problem went away, if temps climb, say they get to late 900's in the same instances, i open the throttle a little and temps start reversing.
each bike is different, at the time i was warning louis, the 3ma is known for suddenly developing a detonation problem and my theory is it has either recently started sucking air or this scenario above plays out. it might be able to suck air through your opposing cylinder if your 1 way valve is gone, you must also use loktite 5699 grey sealer/yamabond or similar on your inlet gasket, it must not suck air after the carb.

Ndwedwe wrote:use loktite 5699 grey sealer/yamabond or similar on your inlet gasket, it must not suck air after the carb.

when neal came around one day with his leak-down testing equipment, when i was mistakingly looking in the wrong place for my 3XV limiting problem, before dan joined the zeel club, we leaked-down the motor and both cylinders where whistling out the inlet gaskets!!!!!
i did all my bikes, i have ALWAYS reused inlet gaskets, BUT now i use a sealer, the stuff works like a charm around your exhaust too. no more blowing sh1t all over your motor.

Loose exhaust pipes are very bad , you lose fuel charge out of them during the cycle and it messes evrything up . Very easy to make up some leak testing equipment and very helpfull tool to have .

Hi Neal;

Dont hold back share the blue prints.

Edd

Thanks again guys for all the info.

Ndwedwe; I think I will put in 100 air jets after that story, and I don't have a EGT system either so I wouldn't want to risk it.

I have used hylomar on my inlet gaskets so they are all good, and I was told to only get hylomar because it was the best. I am sure that loctite stuff is just as good though.


Neal, Ndwedwe; both my pipes are leaking oil at the flanges and I have tried using grey gasket sealant (just found it in the garage so decided to use it) But no matter how much I use it still leaks.

something that is bothering me at the moment is that when I have started the bike the powervalves sound like they are experiencing a much heavier load than when the bike has been sitting and is cold. I can turn it on many times when it is cold and it will function properly and smoothly, but after the bike has been running I will turn it on and off and it will sound as though they are under to much load and they will even get stuck in the open position and what I mean get stuck is that they continue trying to turn so all I hear is wee,wee,wee,wee,wee at a very fast pace(3-4 wee's in a second) If I turn it on and off again it will do the same thing from open to closed and back to open and then it does the wee, wee thing.

I had to use wee because thats kinda what it sounds like

I think it is a safety device in the servo that is preventing it from burning out under load. But there is not much load and it only does it when it has been running.

again any suggestions welcomed.

Also it looks as though it is working fine when the bike is running although I cant hear the wee sound so I cant be sure.

I can take a video of before and after the bike has been running of the powervalve disc to give anyone a better idea if they need to see and hear it.

Hello Luke,

Great you have it all running and now (after your run in proces) you can give it a full go

With all the good tips you will be getting, you still will find out that the 3ma is difficult to set up.
And that your setup (probably) will be different too other 3ma's (regarding the exhausts you are using)

Just try to feel the engines needs, is the best tip I can give you.

And with feeling i mean understand the behaviour of the 3ma engine.
It will have a difficult butum and mid range (speciualy when you have removed the VAJ system)


There are tricks to try to loos that problem zone (as Ndwedwe and Edd are writing)

-Playing with the airjet size is a good one (most of use use the airjet in the range 100 till 130) mains will be different to witch air jet you will be using

-Using a different Needle jet (stock 3ma's have Q8 and Q9 in them) when you use a Q4 (from 3ma3) it will lean out that difficult zone more.
(3ma3 needlejets in combination with 3ma1 needles)

-And Removing the Balance tube between the reed rubbers (use alu plugs to cover up the holes) will help in that difficult zone
(Edd this could be something to try fore you I'm riding with it. Until now works great.
(As on the low rpm's the mixture will not be sucked to the other side, making it richer)

So the Manny combinations with the above mentioned tricks/ideas, there will hardly be any 3ma the same.


Regarding your PV problem you could try to loosen the pv cables a bid and see what happens.
They shouldn't be to tight, and pressible by finger

Its just a thought.

Keep posting your findings, and let that 3ma sing

Cheers

Regarding your PV problem you could try to loosen the pv cables a bid and see what happens.
They shouldn't be to tight, and pressible by finger

I have tried loosening, adjusting the cables but it still happens?


I went out for another ride to do some powervalve testing and have already been moaned at buy a grumpy old man and he even threatened me saying"if you ever ride here again I will hit you", while holding a stick in his hand. All I can say is get a life and start experiencing the fun things instead of sitting on the sofa watching TV or whatever he does.

Point is the bowls are still overflowing and causing the bike to become excessively rich at times, So I cant even get a proper acceleration run in.
Once they are fixed I will try everything to get this 3ma perfect, the list is building up, and I need to start testing these things.

Back to the PV's; they seem to be working fine when I am riding so I am not worried about that, but I just don't want to burn out the servo and have another problem on my hands.

Hi Guys;

Louis thanks for the tip will block of balance tube between reed rubbers. Hows the weather when are you testing again?

Luke;

Dont worry about servo motor I think you will break a cable before you break the motor. Just make sure the power valve is setup correctly and you have a little play on the cables. My advice invest in new needle and seats from yamaha, you can also get them from sudco out of america but the price is the same.

Today is the day I will try ndwedwe's 0.9 air jet with Louis suggestion on the 3ma3. Got my fairings well most of it back so also busy fitting those. Will post as I go along. Building contractors are interfering with my testing .

Edd

Hi Edd

Dont worry about servo motor I think you will break a cable before you break the motor

that gives me confidence thanks Edd

My advice invest in new needle and seats from yamaha, you can also get them from sudco out of america but the price is the same.

after I have bough new orings unfortunately I think that will be my only choice


All the best with the testing Edd

Be careful with the PV motor

If the motor strains too much it can overload and toast the PV controller. Had this on a RD350YPVS, PV motor was on its way out and blew 2 powervalve controllers (£££££££££) before I realised what the fault really was

Morning Gentlemen;

Did some testing on the 3ma3 yesterday and didnt make much progress I am afraid. Purchesed a 0.92 mm drill bit couldnt find a 0.9 in town. Soldered up the airjets and drilled 0.92 mm holes fitted 3ma1 needles middle clip with 200 through to 180 mains same result as previous setup. Which was 120 aj, 3ma3 needle and 200 mj. (I am running 30mm carbs 3ma3 with q4 needle jets) didnt diddle with any of that.

The bike hits a wall at 8500 rpm initially thought it was running rich but with such significant changes it must be something else with the 180 mains it did become lean 6000rpm. I am thinking I have a diffrent issue. So checked float levels which was ok called it a day after that . Any suggestions gents What I can say is the bike goes very well up to 8500 starts easily. I can not get through 8500 at any throttle position .

Edd

Hi Edd,

Interesting 3Ma you have

If I understand you right you have the 3MA3 carbs with 3MA1 Needles and 3MA3 Needle jets. Needles in middle clip. 200 mains 0,92mm airjet
Then I fully agree with you, don't think the carbs will be the problem.

Perhaps a silly question, but how does your pv turn? (You might have switched the cables, and they are closed by 8500rpm)
Or perhaps it gives a wrong puls and they just stay close?

You can easily check it by disconnecting the pv motor, and leaf/turn it in the fully open position.

Try it and see what happens then.

Louis

I was going to suggest the powervalve too!

Isn't the 3ma3 needle way too long for a 3ma1 carb too? Won't it almost still be in the needle jet at full throttle?

Dan

Hi Dan,

The 3ma3 needle is shorter than the 3ma1 needle.



Think if you leaf the clip from a 3ma1 needle it in middle position in a 3ma3 carb. It should be more/less the same as a 3ma3 needle clip in lowest position.
Only you don't have the (strange) middle section.

I fully agree with you if you put a 3ma1 needle with the needle clip in leanest position in a 3ma3 carb it is prety lean.
Hmmm just thinking of something right now, would the slides be different? Between the 3ma1 and 3ma3 carbs?

Sorry louis i meant the other way around, 3ma1 needle in 3ma3 carb

Dan