TZR Forum

Hey guys,

Started this topic on every last tzr forum, sadly you wont see the complete story from beginning till now :'(

So I start here again with my hybrid track bike project ;D

Got the tank back from the painter, so finally I could worm her up for the first time 8)
Ignore the battery charger as my battery was flat.

She sounds crisp with no strange engine noises.
Enjoy the sound :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQKZOVeO4SM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQKZOVeO4SM)


Here you have some pictures, where I am now.
From the Right side.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3maracerm.jpg&hash=c49019388c6ba5e5986a6ab4fbf6d023677c0eba)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3maracerv.jpg&hash=b57b325e914591db869e974edbffdeff3cd29814)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3maracera.jpg&hash=1e096d718b91d22dcc810e810f7083dfe16e3f4b)

From the Left side.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3maracelm.jpg&hash=57dda19f70e31f8ee0b5a3248bc00b90e0eb88f6)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3maracelv.jpg&hash=6e9c8a36206245bb454febf97b94f2be313fbcea)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3maracela.jpg&hash=88e3e56aa2119da7cc3616be5102d069fbbe18e9)

Still lots off work to do, but i will get there ;D

Cheers

That looks awesome louis! I've said it before, but that swingarm is really cool 8) (maybe it because it looks like a 3xv now  ;) ;) )

Ultra Nice!

Louis that sounds and looks incredible!

Well done sir!

Dan

I got an erection after hearing your bike louis ;D

Wonderful! Absolutely love it, Louis! Do you think you might get it on track before winter descends? It's still warm enough to show us your legs again I see...  ;)

heyheyyy
that thing really snaps!! >:(
like a tiger on the loose!
good work, you must be chuffed ;)

Hi Louis;

Well done my man the bike looks great love the black and gold front end. What is a lap length at Assen? You will need a long enough extension ;D Yip also went out in shorts today summer is comming ;D

Edd

Thanks guys fore the commend

QuoteThat looks awesome louis! I've said it before, but that swingarm is really cool  (maybe it because it looks like a 3xv now    )

I like the swing arm to, it gives the bike a more modern look. But it also given me problem's, the distance between swingarm and rear shock is minimal :-[ will see how it goes.

QuoteUltra Nice!

Thanks, But its not ready jet.

QuoteLouis that sounds and looks incredible! Well done sir!

Dan. Still a long way to go. (and its missing a L fairing) ;)

QuoteI got an erection after hearing your bike louis

;D(Perhaps better nexst time you leaf the (small) details out, hope your girlfriend is not reading this ;D)

QuoteWonderful! Absolutely love it, Louis! Do you think you might get it on track before winter descends? It's still warm enough to show us your legs again I see... 

Warwick, I hope to get here ready, but she is already out of here original planning :-[ I'm working as fast as i can.
If its to late to drive it on a track, I'll drag it to a deserted open road and do some laps there 8). I want to drive it this year.
Wat is it what you guys have with my legs ;D

Quoteheyheyyy
that thing really snaps!!
like a tiger on the loose!
good work, you must be chuffed

Hey Paul, Hope its not a tiger, want to stay on it ;)

QuoteWell done my man the bike looks great love the black and gold front end. What is a lap length at Assen? You will need a long enough extension

Yes i like the gold touches to, think When the fairing is painted to (same black) some small decals is the only thing she needs. Perhaps a (small) yamaha on the tank, (small) ypvs on the back seat. and (small) TZR250 on the fairing.
Will see how that goes :)

great track bike louis
i still wait to see the first onboard video from track!

Whoa, my pc at the shop doesnt have sound, just watched the clip on the laptop, sounds incredible!!

Hi

Could you give us a bit of specs ?

Engine and chassis

I have not seen this from the start and its very interesting

PS)The 3XV swingarm needs some mods to put on the 3MA or a direct fit ?

Thanks

Hi,

of course I can give you some specifications on engine and chassis ;D.

Engine:
-3MA1 bottom.
-3Ma-10 barrels
-3MA3 reeds (an 3ma3 reed house)
-Ignition, home made (ignition it self is ignitech)
-exhaust pipes, home made
-32mm carbs (with closed airjets, home made)

chassis:
-tzr125 rear swing arm (so its not a 3xv, its a tzr125 4dl  sp swing arm, bolds straight in)
-szr660 rear wheel (4.0)
-Honda rear shock
-tzr125 4dl race solo seat
-rear subframe (home made)
-tzr250 3xv tank
-szr660 frond suspension
-all brembo breaks

All the ''home made'' thinks had there own topics
Ones you writ it all down, it does not sound mutch.
But its a lot off work to find it all out if it fits

Normally I'm pretty active with my topics with pictures and ideas story's etc
But after two/three tzr forums (two years further) can't find any thing back :-[.
That is a bid depressing. :'(


If there is something you like to know, just ask


Cheers

Quote from: Louis on August 29, 2012, 09:11:56 PM

If there is something you like to know, just ask

errrrmmmm, yes. where do i buy one???? lol

Hi Paul,

Ones it is finished, Yamaha will copy it and take it back in production 8)

Its been a wile back since I had worked on the hybrid bike.
To keep my relationship healthy I had to do some work at the house ::)
Now all that is done, so I can slowly pick it up where I left it. 8)

Got the fairing back from the painter, and it starts to look a bid more like a racer.
Have to sort out quit a few thinks, but the end is close.
Can't wait to give here a go, on a deserted road.

Here is how she looks now.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2F3makuipRmatig.jpg&hash=d990499f15d9969e7c40fd7e37ce5e34862311e5)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2F3makuip6.jpg&hash=49aa3a914a07a94db080148cbf6ac7080fce9c15)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2F3makuip1.jpg&hash=042fbbd5e88bbcd38d1688f6bf0b0978f65003b9)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2F3makuip5.jpg&hash=06b561b61fac5cf73e40e9f53126eaf6fafb723d)

Does someone know if these will fit the mikuni 3ma carbs? it looks to me that they could fit.
http://www.parkeryamaha.com/mikunineedlevalveset.aspx (http://www.parkeryamaha.com/mikunineedlevalveset.aspx)

Looking good Louis. I'm pretty sure those needle valve sets will fit the 3MA carbs as all the big TM carbs seem to use the same basic body. Go for the 3.5s though, not the 1.8s.

Looking good Louis ! Good luck .

Very nice Louis, but looking very black now  ;D ;D

Wow...very nice Louis!!  Sexy!! 8)

Update:

Its a will back since I had time to work on my bike, but today I had time :)
What did I do.

Made all electrical work.
-tachometer
-battery meter
-temp meter
-ignition on/off switch (with control led)
-powervalve on/off switch
-kill switch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo46pMK4uhM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo46pMK4uhM)

This will probably not be the best solution as its a small display
But it will have o do for now :-\, perhaps in the future there will be another display.

On the bike it self I did the following.
-Balancing the front wheel (old fashion way)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fvoorbalan.jpg&hash=2b42b901bba5a166caead4d8ef1a47e87fed03a5)
-Balancing the rear wheel
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fachterbalan.jpg&hash=ef5a751058c2abf42223279e3bbb48d8bc1104ee)
-changed the showa 1000 shock for the 600 shock (witch gives me a bid more clearance)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fshowa600.jpg&hash=8348f243be869f7dd6dbe1aeb0b6f721f44677f2)
-tighten /check all bolds.

Starts to look more on a race bike ;D
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3mabijnaklaar.jpg&hash=e330d8cde7eb8558272e6acc10930ae870481303)

And last off the day I wormed her up to see if all is working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWlAURvppOw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWlAURvppOw)

Last thing to do is sorting out the carbs, this will be done with a few new ideas ;)
Still waiting on some ordered parts :'(

Cheers guys

Looking and sounding great, Louis!  8)

Thanks Warwick, will get there. 8)



For the ones who don't know it, I use on my hybrid bike primary needle tubes.
Original a 3ma has bleeder type needle jets.
For the moment I'm tying my home made primary needle tubes (with a brass tube around the needle jet)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fbuiscomp.jpg&hash=5695bcdf75dd7637e32889b0ffdb5e60789cce28)

But I like to try this, I have them at home.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fneedletubechange.jpg&hash=b7d3152d20ea35f16a445798f599aa8887c283c3)

You will get the idea, will change the emulsion tube in my lath to make it fit witch should not be that difficult
So you will have a solid (original) pimary emulsion tube.

Do some off you guys have a idea where to start with jetting with open carbs and primary needle jets.
I see that the tz250w 3lc has stock 450 mains with 38mm carbs.

I have 32mm Should i start with around 380 a 400 mains?????

Yes, that should work better Louis. Your home made primary N/J won't work so well because it has the ring around the needle jet itself. This means that it creates a seal in the carb body just below the tip of teh needle. this area should be open so that the air coming through the air jet can mix with the fuel as it exits the needle jet - just as it does on the TZ needle jets you have pictured above. :)

Yes, I would think mains around the 400 mark would be a good starting point.   

Looks great Louis,Brembos look like a good upgrade. Neighbours must realise what's going to happen when the video camera comes out  ;D

Hello Lozza,

QuoteNeighbours must realise what's going to happen when the video camera comes out 

Yes, you see that right. ;D
To hold the peace in the neighborhood I'll only let her run for a couple off minutes. ::)
Ones I have sorted the carbs her at my home, will drag her to my parents house where I can properly worm her up and ride the first meters 8)

Warwick,

Quotebecause it has the ring around the needle jet itself. This means that it creates a seal in the carb body just below the tip of teh needle. this area should be open so that the air coming through the air jet can mix with the fuel as it exits the needle jet

You make me a bid confused :-[, What space needs to be open?
The plan is/was to cut the top off, and machine the needle jet to the original 3ma size.
So you will have a primary needle jet pouching/sealing agents the original Q8 needle jet.
(like sugo 3xv ones)

As I sad that was the plan :-\, now I'm thinking what needs to be open?
I'll let the carbs un toucht, so when closing the inlet tube on the carbs for the airjet's
I thought it should be good.

Sorry, Louis. I didn't explain it well  :-[.

What I mean is that I think you'll need to replicate the same overal external shape as the TZ-type nozzle/needle jet in your pic for it to work well? So if using the 610 needle jet you'd need to machine off the protrouding 'ring' that runs round the outside of the jet.

Does that make more sense :-[ :-\

I'm planning on trying TZ needle jets in my own 3MA. I checked it out, and It looks like with a little modification to the cab body and/or Jet the TZ jet will fit in the carb with the jet tip at the same height as the 3MA jet. You might want to look at that too? A key advantage would be that it would be far easier to source different size needle jets :D.

QuoteDoes that make more sense 

Ehh, i think :-[

A picture says more then thousand words :), so lets see if I understand you right.

Here you have the whole construction.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Ftweetube.jpg&hash=08175946b5881f485165fc7e6b205b8965cd2250)

The idea is/was to machine the top off and make it the correct values to fit the 3ma carbs
Like this:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fideetube.jpg&hash=b3ff981e750025216b609ef29964bdfa7324323f)

After that, when fitting the emulsion tube it will tighten the original needle jet. (like oem)
Ill plug off the original airjet inlet (from the side off the carb) and hold the little brass bolls in place.
So in theory I should now have a working primary needle jet construction. :-[


I have looked at your idea.
When I fit the 633 needle jet, it looks like it to short
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fmonttube.jpg&hash=5283ea657018337985bc693b287e828d2b62de30)

Of course I could retap the thread inside the carb body further to allow the 633 needlejet to fit on oem location.
But that will bring the main jet almost outside the bowl. Perhaps you can change the fuel level, but i doubt if you can get it up 6/8 mm.

A thought the needles seems to fit.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Ftweetubenaald.jpg&hash=0c6f4caad5c71c9c85dac1321dac5e21b7272427)

Sorry, Louis. I have some computer problems just now, so it's hard to make an image to show you what I mean, but I'll try to explain a little more.

For the needle jet to work as it does in TZ carbs you need an air bleed for the needle jet. But instead of the air from the air jet mixing with the fuel in the emulsion tube, it forms a 'pool' of air that helps atomise the fuel as it exits the needle jet. This is why I think you will need to cut off or cut down the ring that runs round the outside of the 610 needle jet so that it can work like the 633 type does.

On the TZ carbs the air fir the air bleed is controlled by an adjuster screw. It looks like it would be pretty easy to modify the 3MA carb to use the same kind of adjustment, or you could just use a fixed air jet - or even use tha VAJ system to adjust the airbleed according to revs/throttle position?

As I mentioned, I've been meaning to try that kind of set-up for some time now, but other things keep getting in the way... I will get round to it though, so if you still can't follow what I mean, I will post up some pics and a report when I get round to it. Currently busy clearing some ground so that I can put up a workshop at home, so hopefully the bike development will get back on track in the next few months...

Nice work guys. I personally loathe the airjet carbs. I also do not know enough to try and convert them to primary carbs. Else I would. I reckon all my hassles have been air and it has cost me to learn what I have.
I watch with interest and hope you both succeed and share your results here.  ;)

Think Warwick is talking about a primary type needle jet with one hole at the top of the nozzle that when installed lines up with the air corrector???

Well there is certainly something I over look.

Sadly I don't have tz carbs, so its still difficult to see/understand what you mean.

But think I'll be close.
you say:

QuoteBut instead of the air from the air jet mixing with the fuel in the emulsion tube, it forms a 'pool' of air that helps atomise the fuel as it exits the needle jet. This is why I think you will need to cut off or cut down the ring that runs round the outside of the 610 needle jet so that it can work like the 633 type does.

Like this:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Ftweetubechange.jpg&hash=c2c1ade27cdfba87a596ff64ee96437a568d25d0)

If this is the case, than there should be a clearance between carb body and needle jet so the air can go past it
But it would hardly mix as the air is outside the emulsion/needlejet
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fmontchangetube.jpg&hash=8e5f8940c78896c38d08f9f6519ff82d32e628b9)

The next question would be where does that air comes from?,
I could think off one thing making the original airjet inlet on the carbs body adjustable with a screw

You realy start to make me think here ::)

Would (my) idea not work? I really liked the idea not to use air correction at all
Just a easy setup, a main jet and a needle jet and the needle to controle it all.

how does the sugo stuff have it on the 3xv?

Lozza,
Do you mean this type
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fnieuwtypetube.jpg&hash=e62a9d24aa8c4fa73e923c2cfbcbe384a3f8f377)

Quote from: Louis on October 21, 2012, 10:21:26 PM
Well there is certainly something I over look.

Sadly I don't have tz carbs, so its still difficult to see/understand what you mean.

But think I'll be close.
you say:

QuoteBut instead of the air from the air jet mixing with the fuel in the emulsion tube, it forms a 'pool' of air that helps atomise the fuel as it exits the needle jet. This is why I think you will need to cut off or cut down the ring that runs round the outside of the 610 needle jet so that it can work like the 633 type does.

Like this:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Ftweetubechange.jpg&hash=c2c1ade27cdfba87a596ff64ee96437a568d25d0)

If this is the case, than there should be a clearance between carb body and needle jet so the air can go past it
But it would hardly mix as the air is outside the emulsion/needlejet
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fmontchangetube.jpg&hash=8e5f8940c78896c38d08f9f6519ff82d32e628b9)

The next question would be where does that air comes from?,
I could think off one thing making the original airjet inlet on the carbs body adjustable with a screw

You realy start to make me think here ::)

Would (my) idea not work at all?
how does the sugo stuff have it on the 3xv?

Yes, you've got it Louis - that's exactly what I mean (first pic) :D. The air comes in where you have removed the ball, so you could use a jet here to meter the air - or use a mixture screw perhaps? The TZ carb body is effectively the same as the 3MA main body, so if you remove the stub from the original VAJ air intake hole and tap the body there to suit, I think a TZ air mixture screw would fit and so allow you to adjust the air bleed to the tip of the needle jet? Using this set-up will (I think) improve part throttle fuelling (better fuel atomisation I guess?) than using the unmodified 610 jet as that effectively seals off any air bleed to the tip.

The 3XV Sugo set-up uses the same idea as you have in mind for the 3MA (same 610 type NJ), but I'm not sure it's ideal - which is one of the reasons I use the TZ carbs instead - and they work brilliantly I have to say...

By the way, why are you using the 633 needle jets to sit the 610 jet on top of when you could just block up the holes in the stock 3MA emulsion tube instead? Surely that would achieve exactly the same effect as your original plan wouldn't it? Or am I missing something? Perhaps the greater diameter of the lower portion of the 633 jet would be better though?  Anyway I think It's only if you use a needle jet of the same kind of external shape as the 633 type that would make any difference to the fuelling ?  ??? Hence my idea bout removing the ring.

The problem you will have though is that the 610 NJ will need attaching to either the sealed 3MA emulsion tube - or the modified TZ Nozzle/Jet Somehow. This might be problematic as you don't want it coming loose and getting sucked into the engine :o. I was thinking about trying vertical slots in the ring first, to see if that improved things, while still holding the NJ in position - and stopping it getting sucked into the motor...   

Anyway, I haven't actually had the chance to actually try out all this myself on the 3MA yet of course, so bear in mind that this is just my speculative theory for the time being... I will get to it, but feel free to try it out yourself first of course. I think my 3MA is unlikely to be running again until next spring as I have other things I need to do just now.

Luck.

Yeah I was talking about a primary nozzle, get the top and front edges on that shroud razor sharp ;)

Aha, good to know that I understand your idea correctly ;D

QuoteBy the way, why are you using the 633 needle jets to sit the 610 jet on top of when you could just block up the holes in the stock 3MA emulsion tube instead? Surely that would achieve exactly the same effect as your original plan wouldn't it? Or am I missing something?

It is not that simple as it looks, the original holes are corroded (by fuel and air) so the solder tin wont fill the holes properly.
If you drill the holes to 1mm and then use tin to fill them, a lot of tin will go trough it and sits inside the needle tube.
Of course you can drill that out, but that leafs a rough service inside the tube.
Therefore I started with the brass tube around the emulsion tube to close all the holes and leaf the internal clean. But I'm still not confidence that the brass tube seals off properly. The brass tube may pressed oval in the lath (as its pretty thin)

With the 633 needletube i can machine off the top and it will be a sollid closed needle tube like the oem sugo 610
Than I'm sure that the only leaking point (if it will be there) could be between the needlejet and needle tube.


Another thing, this bike will not be THE bike.
What I mean with this is, it is just build to have a track bike/learning bike/fun bike
I did not do any thing at the engine
-stock 3ma-10 cylinders
-stock head with 0,9mm squish
-stock reads with connection tube between the carbs rubbers
-home made pipe's but with a length that should peak around 10000rpm (no hp pipes)
-stock carbs (with the lets say. (sugo setup))
-a ignitech and a battary

In small term's this is not the bike that will be seen as ''whow'' its build to be a winner.
(all in hobby terms of course ::))

No or less, when I was building this bike lots and lots off very good ideas came up in me.
Wrote it all down and already started to collect the parts that I need for it

My first unfinished track bike is sad back in a corner and is starting to be a donor bike for the rest. :-[
That one will be rebuild from the ground up, with all the ideas I have.
I wont tell you guys what parts I already bought for it, but when finiched it should be a very very good working bike ;)

Enthusiast as I am, it really is a big effort not to start building it
I really pouch my self to finch this one completely, so it can be used for what it is build fore.
Fun on a track. 8)

Quote from: Louis on October 22, 2012, 08:41:05 PM

Another thing, this bike will not be THE bike.
What I mean with this is, it is just build to have a track bike/learning bike/fun bike
I did not do any thing at the engine
-stock 3ma-10 cylinders
-stock head with 0,9mm squish
-stock reads with connection tube between the carbs rubbers
-home made pipe's but with a length that should peak around 10000rpm (no hp pipes)
-stock carbs (with the lets say. (sugo setup))
-a ignitech and a battary

louis, that setup alone should see you at about 63-65HP, you don't really want more on the std crank do you? you can win races with that bike for sure.

Quote from: Louis on October 22, 2012, 08:41:05 PM

My first unfinished track bike is sad back in a corner and is starting to be a donor bike for the rest. :-[

that is sad boetie, you nearly had it man! are you continuing with your emulsion tube work? i am following you there, my TZ and TZR both run primary tubes and i want to bin them on my 3ma's. sadly i bought sugo carbs for 3ma and am sticking with them.

i ask you to please show me the brackets you made for the 3xv tank. the bike from capetown has a rusty tank and my spare 3xv tank is like new.
also, those fairings, where did you get them?

onwards we go.............. ::)

Quotelouis, that setup alone should see you at about 63-65HP

That would be great, but i'm more aiming on mid 50's. Hope, with good mid power so it will be easier to ride :)

Quotei ask you to please show me the brackets you made for the 3xv tank

Next time when i have the tank off will make some pictures from that mod.

Small update:
Why i have this ::)
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Because i have scored a compl. SP gearbox with dry clutch, in very good condition. ;)
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Think the bike deserved it, so here you go.
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Here you have it in action. 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajKuS9Zbk4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajKuS9Zbk4)

currently working at the carbs.

Nice Setup you've got Louis...

You should come to the RD500LC meeting at Magny Cours Club track in the end of June with the RACE 3MA.

Hi Louis,

Looking good as your work always does!

I have a question about the 633 emulsion tubes. Are they the type found in the TZ's from 3TC through to 4DP and 4TW etc.? What size orifice did you go for? (R-2, R-4 etc.)

This has got me thinking about my 3xv you see.

Cheers,

Dan

Not Louis I'm afraid, but yes Dan. 633 series are 90s TZ type Needle jets.

Posted before, but as a reminder I use a 633 R3 NJ with a 6FI80-61 needle (oe fitment to early 90s TZ - 91-93 models off the top of my head in the track 3XV. Have the part No if you need it? In the TZ parts books though obviously). Works very well indeed on my set-up, but most relevant TZ combo's probably would TBH I reckon. To try the 633s in your SP carbs you may need to modify the body internally a bit. Or make up some kind of 'hybrid' NJ using a modified SP nozzle and modded 610 jet as discussed with Louis above. The pics above show how it would work.

Thanks Warwick!

Yeah I could be tempted to give it a try in the 36's at some point you see. I could even use the VAJ to control the MAJ size too which could be interesting. Not sure how this would affect the situation with the MAJ not being in the bellmouth. I keep meaning to test this and will do the next time I am on the dyno!

Looking to Louis' picture below, does the needle jet in the TZ carbs sit at about the same height relative to the bottom of the carb bore? I know Louis' pic is of the smaller 32mm 3ma carbs. I might order a TZ needle jet and take some pictures with it fitted over xmas.

(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fmonttube.jpg&hash=5283ea657018337985bc693b287e828d2b62de30)

As long as there is a gap around the tip of the needle jet for air to pass through from the main air jet surely everything should be ok?

Thanks again mate!

Dan

Yes, that's why the 633 jet differs from the 610 Dan. If I get the chance, I'll take a few illustrative pics for you at the w/end.  I have all the relevant jets and carbs kicking around - it's just finding the time that is tricky... I'll do what I can though.

Hi Warwick,

That would be great if you get chance but no worries if not. It was just when you said I may have to modify the body internally, wasn't sure if you meant near the needle jet hole or elsewhere. Out of interest I rang Webbs up today the 6FI80-61 needle is discontinued at Yamaha ( I'm guessing Dennis Trollope could get some though) and the 633 series needle jet is still available at £33 a pop. I might try Allens during the week to see how their prices compare.

Thanks again for your time, Warwick.

Louis, you can have your thread back now  ;D sorry for diluting it with 3xv chat lol.

Dan

QuoteLouis, you can have your thread back now   sorry for diluting it with 3xv chat lol

No problem Dan, I have finished my carbs today to 8)

What did I do:
Off course the biggest problem was that the original powerjet where stuck. The previous owner off the carbs already tried to get them out with no results leafing me with destroyed powerjet's

Well don't want to go the same route as I did with the Marlboro bike, so ordered a handset of micro drills with hand peace.
So I could drill my powerejets at the dimension i wanted it.

Where do you start for such setup, I Google a bid to get a certain idea where to start.

Here is my starting point.

32mm 3ma1 carbs:

-Closed emulsion tube.
-Q4 Needle jet
-Needle clip on top (original 3ma1 needle)
-Mains 350
-Powerjet .50
-pilotjet 25
-airjet srew 3 turns out
-New Needle valve seats

She runs not to bad, even idles when she is cold on the choke (That is new for me ;D)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct58CFLUF9E&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct58CFLUF9E&feature=youtu.be)

Have to make a couple off small bracket, but then she should be ready for the first test ride.
Why o Why I have this bike ready in the middle of the winter. ::)

i am intrigued
what emulsion tube was it in the end?
have you dropped the airjet completely?
yes winter will slow you europeans down a little, our summer has brought tonnes of rain, but at least its warm.
i dispise the airjets and would love to dump them, im hanging to hear how it goes
my carb setup is almost identical to what you get there, i have a few spare tubes, tell me what to do, ill run tests to. here where the weather might be better than there 8)

Hello Paul,

Quotewhat emulsion tube was it in the end

I used the solid closed emulsion tube (Right on the picture)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fideetube.jpg&hash=b3ff981e750025216b609ef29964bdfa7324323f)

Quotei have a few spare tubes, tell me what to do, ill run tests to

I ordered these type's, They fit the 3ma carb body
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikuni-Needle-Jet-633-Series-OEM-TMX-784-13005-S8-/150639019779?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2312c90703&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mikuni-Needle-Jet-633-Series-OEM-TMX-784-13005-S8-/150639019779?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2312c90703&vxp=mtr)
Machine the top off so you will have a closed emulsion tube with a Q4 on top (as described earlier)

With this setup I don't have airjets. (i have closed the airjet intake's on the carb's with a plug's)

So only a
-mainjet
-needle
-pilot jet
-pilot screw

I do run open carbs so no airbox.

It would be great/nice if you will try the same setup.
If you do start carefully, its almost a experimental setup. There is hardy any info on it

I'll see if I can get them locally.
Does your bike rev through? Have you ridden it?

QuoteDoes your bike rev through? Have you ridden it?

Yes she revs on her work place.

I haven't ridden it, hope to do that soon. ::)

Not done much as its almost Christmas (time to do the family stuff, and hold my girlfriend happy ::))

But I managed to make a small tool/holder to set my ignition right.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Fhouderafstel_zps36b36837.jpg&hash=9246751b14ed64ca90a0990beb3d9224f0887c59)


Have found it and the base advance is (on my setup) 20 degrees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YKkAch753Q&list=UUJ-OK_OH_WZ_QFL6eqcVPMA&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YKkAch753Q&list=UUJ-OK_OH_WZ_QFL6eqcVPMA&index=1)
Its a bid wobbly as it is just at his changing point. (for this movie) but its steady if I have a 20 degrees flat curve programmed.

Next thing to do is mounting the two EGT's that are ordered, hopefully coming soon in begin January

For now.
Have a good Merry Christmas to you all :)

Cheers Guys

I ordered 4 of those emulsion tubes. I'll try it to.
I also worked yesterday and day before on the TZ.
Merry Xmas to you to.

If any help -
When I need Mikuni parts I order from here -
http://www.mikuni-topham.de (http://www.mikuni-topham.de)
What you need might not be on the web site, but they have it
so drop a mail with at photo -
I did that - and I got all oem. mikuni parts at
resonable price - and quick delivery -

Update:

Last week they have delivered my Second EGT Meter. (Stage6 hade problem's with delivering)
Today had time to mound it all, and see if it is working :).

Sensors are mounted at 120mm from the piston. (closes as I could get them)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3MAEGTopuitlaat_zpsc939b832.jpg&hash=4a116777e78b36fa0b6b9d24cf025a731955e98e)

Have mounted the EGT meter's above the cockpit to keep them in sight.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2F3MAEGTmontmeters_zps7b91da71.jpg&hash=1a4de9be9c68cbfb324b32539414fa3aa9f1ee47)


Here you have it working.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cERTRyOyKnA&list=UUJ-OK_OH_WZ_QFL6eqcVPMA&index=1


Have to do some small changes at the bike. But my guess is, I can try it on the road in a few weeks.
That will be the interesting part, then I can see if the whole concept is doing what it suppose to be doing ::).

Will let you guys know
Cheers

I see how the rhs display is showing higher temps ! Great progress Louis  O0

Its a wile back since updated this one I see. :)
Well good news ( hope) Tomorrow planned a complete day off dynoing the hybride bike.
(to get myself a base setting)

(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520HYBRID%2Ftzrh_zps59323876.jpg&hash=01ace36136f7a5ccc24b053961f1745ca81e7bee)
Tank is filled up and she is standing in the fan ready to go.
Laptop, jets, plugs, EGT extensions cables. All packed.

Tomorrow morning off we go.

Whish me luck, think i need it

Cheers Guys

I am not shure you need luck... :)

Sounds like a fun day of tuning, Louis.
Hope all goes well and can't wait to hear about the results.

Cheers

Had a interesting day today.
Here you have her not knowing what will hapen :)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2Fhybridbijouders_zpsaecb8a8b.jpg&hash=e26d198027559d08d0a9c07629877df9e649aeef)

Now she knows ;D
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2Fhybridopdyno_zps944eea99.jpg&hash=4823acb1ff5c3266b0d163540c7c9dc30ea78832)

Have got answers and got questions back. With a small sad back. ::)

The answers.
-Bike is holding well.
-Home made pipes works including the stinger all up inside the belly (thanks martin77 for the tip)
-Power is very good on a low rpm.

Questions.
-Why can't I get the EGT to rise? (Max what I have seen is about 400 degrees flatout)
This was with the smallest mains a have (180)
-Very difficult to feel/see one degree change on my dyno (made by the ignitech)

Sad back :-[.
After doing about 35 measuring runs and some more worming up runs (not measured)
The temperature of the mass flywheel gets so high the brakes are starting to get stuck
And starts to brake the mass wheel when they shouldn't been doing that.


Long story short. Best results I had this day (200 mains, ignition on 14 degrees at 9250)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2F627_zps82df539c.png&hash=3a91343bb0d1b16db04e796545db06f5ef7eb29f)

Changing a lot off mains ;).
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2Fmainswisselen_zps6fbfc264.png&hash=78310be0b1f017593846b8ae795343c8590b4494)

And to give you guys a impression how Im doing this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cnmO_r-fjc&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cnmO_r-fjc&feature=youtu.be)
Here are some example runs (this is not the 62hp run off course but one off the first)

Hi Louis this is good results.
I would love to have a dyno at home...
Keep posting the progress.

Hello Olivier,

Yes, a dyno is a nice tool kept me busy for hours. But its also a bid dangerous by thinking that you can measure every change you make at the engine.
Very difficult to see 'example''
-one degree of ignition change
-or a 500rpm change in pv opening/closing.

But a change in mains is good noticeable 8).

Also have to be more accurate with the starting point of measurement.
Measure every run from example 4000rpm to max that will give you a better comparison.

Here you have one off the first runs
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And here you can see the difference between the changes I made
Also noticed the exhaust temp witch is very low.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2Fbegieneindmettemp_zpsfd0caba8.png&hash=3d266473946ddd0bf1cfe2a4ccf522a7e8372bef)

It looks like its still way to rich, but when I used the 180 mains to rise the EGT I'm loosing hp's
Engine starts to struggle indicating to me it is to lean
And going leaner then 180 is a bid strange I think, by the steps I have seen the egt rise to get the correct egt i would end up somewhere around 140???

Need to get more info about all this :)

You really should change to a 2 pick up/coil 1 lobe configuration Louis, seen 1 or 2 HP gained by doing that. Forget trying to read EGT's from a 5 second dyno pull. Dynos are for measuring not for jetting. If you want to get a better idea put the tallest gearing possible on and do the run in 6th gear so you do a 20 or 25 second run, top gear will make the engine work hard to spin the roller. Pipes are too long with a 9000 peak. On our dyno I can see a 0.5deg change in advance. Sounds pretty sharp  :)

Hi Louis , keep up the great work ! The bike sounds sweet !

About the dyno - I was taught to get the pipes hot and then do the  runs , you are doing great .

Can you put a fan on the roller to help cool it ?

Hello Lozza,
Try to forget the RACE/GP thoughts, and bring back the fun factor ;)

QuoteYou really should change to a 2 pick up/coil 1 lobe configuration Louis

That will be exactly the plan for track bike three >:D.
But more in the sense like a one lobe one pickup, big bang setup (All ready in progress)

QuoteForget trying to read EGT's from a 5 second dyno pull. Dynos are for measuring not for jetting. If you want to get a better idea put the tallest gearing possible on and do the run in 6th gear so you do a 20 or 25 second run, top gear will make the engine work hard to spin the roller

I had that discussion with my dad to. He says under riding load, thinks will be a lot different. Specially on longer straights.
I can monitor the EGT on the bike it self, so will keep a eye on it will driving.

QuotePipes are too long with a 9000 peak

Yes, that is correct. But thought off
The plan for this bike is to ride it together with my dad on some demonstration events.
Most off those events are hill climbs, with tight turns.
Don't think it will be handy to have a bike that peeks at 10500 or 11500 on those events. ???

The 3MATZ (next track bike I'm building) has already shorter pipes. They should peek at 11000rpm
That will be more your kind off bike. ;)

QuoteOn our dyno I can see a 0.5deg change in advance

Ok, that dyno would probably be more expensive than my 1000pound dyno 8)

QuoteSounds pretty sharp 

Thanks, on the small movie I made it almost blow the camera off it place :o

Hello Neal,

Quotekeep up the great work ! The bike sounds sweet

Thanks, will do

QuoteAbout the dyno - I was taught to get the pipes hot and then do the  runs , you are doing great

That is exactly what I'm doing. :)
First I do two runs (not measured) to clean the crank cases and heat up the pipe.
Then I do three measuring runs. So in total Five runs for one measurement
Think that's way the roller heats up that fast, also the brake is on the roller it self.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2Frol_zpsb3f76644.jpg&hash=204279b557fa0daf0cc7ec9a6c06f3a5eb82cec7)
Braking from lets say a 160kmh to 60kmh every time, a lot off heat is brought in the roller
Could barley hold my hands on it :o

QuoteCan you put a fan on the roller to help cool it ?

Yes, I'm thinking off that. There is a nice big hole at the side for a electric starter option.
I can do something with that. ;)

Great stuff, Louis! 8) Thanks the the update. Some great work going on over there O0. Lower revs but plenty of grunt will be great for hillclimbing. Has your dad had a run on the 3MA? Be interesting to hear what he thinks of it?

 Why not add a disc brake to the axle, I was wondering why the roller got so hot.

Run a 11,000 peak and gear it down that will be way faster. Hillclimbs ...................in Holland...................... ;D  ;D  ;D

That's pretty good Louis. On a std cdi if I remember correctly.

Hello Warwick,

Thanks, Now I know it is holding and the power is acceptable. :)
I slowly can say ''she is ready for use''

I haven't drove it jet, haven't got a license for this bike.
Will see if I can find a place/event where it can be driven for the first time.

No my Dad haven't been riding this one, but my street 3ma many times ::).

QuoteHillclimbs ...................in Holland......................     

Sharply noticed :). But no, not in Holland ;D
Most off the hillclimbs are in Germany or Austria

QuoteThat's pretty good Louis. On a std cdi if I remember correctly.

Thanks Paul.
No this one hase a programmeble ignition. ;)

i know you are developing (work in progress) but i have to ask louis, why does the bike sign off early. do you know.
i am interested because one of the lads riding this weekend has the same problem, on the longer strsights he can keep the revs up and the wind builds

Hello Paul,

I don't know if I understand your question right.
Do you mean holding the revs up after peek power? Or just rev it up higher?

The design off the pipe does a lot in that part.
For example (I picked the runs relative equal to each other)
Her you have the hybride bike agents the Marlboro bike.
You see the Marlboro bike peeks more then 1000rpm higher then the hybride bike.

(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2Fvergelijk3ma_zps8932c8cb.jpg&hash=29cea1ce29da011d8416c03407cb9523ed2ddd6a)

Hi. I see it is confusing the way I asked. Sorry Louis. 
But yes, you answered what I was trying to ask. I wanted to know why it made all its power earlier. It is pipe design you say.
Is the reducing cone position designed further from piston than pipes of Marlboro bike? Like the Jakkals pipes?

It would be great if you could keep the over rev and join the 2 graphs together on top .
Nice comparison Louis

QuoteIs the reducing cone position designed further from piston than pipes of Marlboro bike? Like the Jakkals pipes?

This is still not my specialty :-[

But Yes, these pipes are longer (reducing cone futher away from the piston) than the Marlboro pipes.
Roughly sad, how shorter the pipe how higher it will peek.

The total length of the hybrid pipes are around 960mm (from memory, starting at the piston to end cone)

So very roughly saying
peek power - Length
9500rpm   - 950mm
10500rpm - 910mm
11500rpm - 870mm
12500rpm - 830mm

Its just a indication, pleas don't take notes off this ::)

QuoteIt would be great if you could keep the over rev and join the 2 graphs together on top

;D Yes That will be a very easy machine to ride.

Thanks again Louis for an informative reply.
I must measure my Coker pipes and add to your findings.

QuoteI must measure my Coker pipes and add to your findings.

Yes, that would be interesting.
If you have the change, let me know.
Like to know if some off my story/thoughts are axially true ;D

Cheers

To peak at 9500 your pipe must be over a 1000mm

QuoteTo peak at 9500 your pipe must be over a 1000mm

I already was missing you with a answer, specially on this subject ;)

Think we have a small surprise point here, just measured the pipe (again)
976mm start piston to end cone, peeking at 9250rpm

Perhaps the stingers are messing thinks up a bid. They are inside the belly (250mm inside)

Hi Louis;

The lad Paul is refering to is me and with the jackals on my 3ma track bike I hit 10500 rpm max. I used to be concerned about this but you have put my mind to ease with this post. I will post my pipe dimensions for you to get some more data. I was thinking running to rich at high rpm with bigger power jet fitted (60). Changed to a (40) power jet no diffrence over the weekend. I must say the 3ma does have some grunt out of the corners pulls like a diesel smooth with very little powerband as the power valves open. At least she stayed together after 7 sessions :D

Edd

Hello Edd,

Noting wrong with a bid lower rpm, will keep the engine healthy longer.
When the engine is happy the rider is happy 8)
I do belief you are riding there for fun, not for the price money ::)
Always place the fun factor at frond, that will hold the both off you happy (engine and rider) ;)

Have quickly measured the jackals that I have lying around here.
Came at 928mm (start piston end cone)
This run is with the jackals, (peeking just a touch over 10.000rpm)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftzr250.webs.com%2FL%2520Nijhof%2520TZR%2520250.JPG&hash=c046abcef1cc5332dd5cd28a6bf9a886588f15d4)

Think you will be close to that.

just measured my coker pipes
must add flange to piston, total 890
no dyno as yet but bike revs right through to 13000 on the clock

This could be interesting Paul.

890mm total length.
If my thoughts are correct, the pipe's could peek at around 11.000rpm

Most off the time tacho's do overread a bid, specially on the higher revs.
So the 13.000rpm you see could probably be around 12.000/12250rpm real time (witch is high)

Peek power is something else than the reving the engine up to Max
For example:
The Marlboro bike peeks at 10.000rpm but I can pull it futher to 11.150rpm (witch is close to 12.000rpm on the tacho)

Im interested where your bike peeks, when do you think you can dyno it ;)

dyno's are a problem in Durban Louis
expensive and pretty useless, either computer blown or the whole thing is down, even then they are never calibrated, to the best of my knowledge.
i am pretty good at setting a bike up the old fashioned way, so i don't lie in bed crying about it.
probably wont go on a dyno for a long time, zoomzoom has kind of disappeared off the bike scene, but he is 550Km away!
i would love to have my own dyno, like you

Don't worry Paul. It was just a idea.
I thought you had a dyno somewhere close to you.
Driving 550km for a couple off runs is something I wouldn't do either. :o

Cheers

Anywhere near a drag strip? A drag strip is a dyno, also if you have a smartphone you can get the dynolicious app and that will give you a pretty accurate reading. I did read somewhere a 600 odd HP car was 10hp out when put on a inertia dyno.

* now available for Android  :D

dynomaster is another
http://dynomaster.trackaroo.com/web/dynomaster

Here you have one that uses the rpm signal.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dynoplus.co.uk%2Fimages%2Froad-dyno-small.jpg&hash=b199c4943e8f935e14993e5e6f7a44e1e037ab29)

Tape the unit on the tank, connect the 12v plug, and inductive clamp on the spark plug cable.
And off you go 8)
http://www.dynoplus.co.uk/roaddyno.shtml (http://www.dynoplus.co.uk/roaddyno.shtml)

Quote from: Louis on September 03, 2013, 09:16:59 AM
Here you have one that uses the rpm signal.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dynoplus.co.uk%2Fimages%2Froad-dyno-small.jpg&hash=b199c4943e8f935e14993e5e6f7a44e1e037ab29)

Tape the unit on the tank, connect the 12v plug, and inductive clamp on the spark plug cable.
And off you go 8)
http://www.dynoplus.co.uk/roaddyno.shtml (http://www.dynoplus.co.uk/roaddyno.shtml)

wow, where are the price and contact details on the website? i am interested

Hi Guys;

My Jackal pipes measure 908mm in length with drop off at 10500.

Edd

Or this android app is very good.
http://www.siphorsepowerdyno.de/siphorsepowerdyno_en/home.html (http://www.siphorsepowerdyno.de/siphorsepowerdyno_en/home.html)

Not tested but I suspect that the developer is the one that has made the gsf_dyno
http://atom007.heimat.eu/tmt/gsf_dyno.html (http://atom007.heimat.eu/tmt/gsf_dyno.html)

Quotewow, where are the price and contact details on the website? i am interested

Now you saying it strange, can't find any info on that to :(
Just googled roaddyno, and this popped up

QuoteNot tested but I suspect that the developer is the one that has made the gsf_dyno

Yes, have seen that one to.

But it looks like its a bid more work, the other one seems to be plug and play.
Strange nothing can't be found how to

That would be perfect for my rolling road  8)