TZR Forum

TZR Specific => 1KT 2MA 2XT 3XC (R1Z) etc Range => Topic started by: eyrey1 on August 24, 2012, 02:44:19 AM

Title: r1-z
Post by: eyrey1 on August 24, 2012, 02:44:19 AM
a mate has just bought one and we are trying to find out how they are restricted ?
anyone any experience with these ,
they are new to me but a cracking little bike ,ive told him to join the forum so he will be along soon
thanks in advance
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on August 24, 2012, 11:43:17 AM
I would say the restrictive points are :
- CDI
- cylinder porting
- pipes

But as engine is almost identical to 1KT/2MA it is easy to find what to do :
- porting (FIII but a little old style so maybe some more modern ones ? an idea Martin77 ?)
- pipes any TZR250 pipes (same idea Martin77)
- CDI ? Maybe TDR250 / TZR250 2XT very rare / Zeeltronic or Ignitech

From memory, R1Z CDI drives the YPVS valves (no external YPBS Box)
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 25, 2012, 09:36:30 PM
Hi Guys, well it's me who has just bought the R1z and would like help or info on how to get the best out of the bike and what modifications i need to make.
Having owned aircooled RD's for the last 20+ years this bike is like nothing else i have had, at first i thought it was awful but after a couple of hundred miles i now really like it , but I did expect a little more performance, there's nothing below 3k and then it's all revs and noise .
I guess it's all standard so it'll be around 45bhp ( it's a really early bike) so what do i need to do to give it a  few more horses, today i have fitted a pair of Nikon end cans that weigh less than half the weight of the standard ones but they don't seem to make any difference , not even any noisier ,i also tried removing the airbox snorkle and jetted up from 240 to 260 mains but just got more induction sound.
It does bog down at very low revs 1.5-3,000 revs sometimes, the pilots are 35, are these too big, are these standard exhausts restricted as they look narrow at the flange.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on August 25, 2012, 10:26:21 PM
Hi Japanese market TZR250 2XT has the exhaust restricted with an internal small tube welded into the pipe to reduce diameter.
Maybe the same on the R1Z.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frd500lc.free.fr%2Fforum%2Frestricted-pipes-2xt.jpg&hash=2a54e561ea91a56837580e3382d1a3be95f00f48)
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 26, 2012, 04:46:09 PM
Unfortunately not, I've just had the pipes off and there's nothing in there, it might not be that slow it's just me who hasn't been on a TDR or TZR250 to compare it with.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: Warwick on August 26, 2012, 11:17:31 PM
A decent stock TZR should whip up to 100 quite briskly, and top out at around 120 on the clock. I think the R1-z is geard a bit shorter though, so maybe top out at about 110-115 or so? 35 pilots sound very big, but I don't know what is stock for the R1-z (I have a TDR myself). Do you know Fredjee from the LC forum? Fred knows his R1-z's so would be a good to catch up with.  For tuning and stuff, Martin77 is a whiz with the old 2MA/1KT engines.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 27, 2012, 10:20:22 AM
Don't know any of these guys yet but I'll see if i can find them, my bike does get to 100mph easy but there's not much left maybe another 10mph but the needles would be off both clocks.

What size pilots do TDR's run ? the R1z does have smaller carbs , they us 28mm compared to your 30mm's so it might be worth me looking for some bigger carbs.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: maccas on August 27, 2012, 10:33:09 AM
Don't r1z's use the same carbs as the 2ma and tdr? If they are 28mm then they are the same as the 2ma/tdr. 28mm is plenty big enough to make decent power. The cdi/pv controller might be the issue as might the design of the standard pipes. Id try and see what the cdi looks li ke and whether  it is one box for both cdi and pv or separate boxes for each. You might be able to fit a csi and pv controller from a 2ma or a combined cdi and pv controller from a tdr.

I don't think the porting will be restrictive so i wouldn't worry about that.

Dan
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 27, 2012, 10:49:46 AM
The box looks like it's one unit for PV and CDi unit, I have looked at other Cdi's on ebay and mine has twice as many wires to/from it.
The exhausts could be an issue as i fitted the Nikon end cans and they sound and perform just the same as the standard ones, they're not that heavy though but the flange is narrow.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: Tom Mac on August 27, 2012, 11:40:18 AM
Standard pilot jets in an R1Z are 12.5s
standard R1z gearing is short, they run a close ratio gearbox compared to the TZR and TDR with a high first and low sixth and then a 45t rear sprocket.
R1Z carbs are 26mm compared to the 28mm ones fitted to the TDR and TZR.

If you want it to go faster, find a set of TZR carbs, fit some aftermaket pipes (martin 77 ones would suit the look ot the R1z well in my humble opinion) and then fit a 41t rear sprocket.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 27, 2012, 03:46:41 PM
Cheers Tom Mac that's just the answer I have been waiting for, as you can tell I'm not very clued up on these bikes but I was on the right road , so now i need some carbs, guess I'll need the inlet stubs and maybe the airbox rubbers, and I'll see about the pipes and sprocket.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: Tom Mac on August 27, 2012, 06:22:13 PM
Nope you'll just need the carbs, The airbox rubbers and inlet stubs are the same as the TZR250 2MA/1KT ones.

Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 27, 2012, 07:17:20 PM
That's good news then as I have just bought a pair of TDR250 carbs on ebay so carn't wait to try these when they come.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: eyrey1 on August 27, 2012, 07:48:04 PM
howard /ste just message martin77 on here mate ,good lad ,good prices !
i will be giving him some stuff to do in a couple of months
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 27, 2012, 09:09:56 PM
I have spoken to Martin regarding the pipes, I'm going to give the carbs a go first see what results I get from them, I don't want this bike to be a money pit , not yet anyway knowing me I'll move it on in a few weeks, usually once I get them sorted I get bored .
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 29, 2012, 08:54:48 AM
Does anyone know the main jet and pilot jet sizes for TDR/TZR250 ? I have some carbs coming soon so need to know where to start with settings .
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on August 29, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
Get the manual of the right bike :  TZR250 1KT / 2MA / 2XW... and read the carburation specification...

http://www.pure-2-stroke-spirit.info/filebrowser (http://www.pure-2-stroke-spirit.info/filebrowser)

A bit of DIY  :D
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 29, 2012, 02:00:41 PM
Can anyone tell me the standard size main jets and pilots for TDR/TZR250 please
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on August 29, 2012, 10:42:57 PM
TDR250 TZR250 R1Z250 has different carburettors & setting.

Here the 3 of them compared but in Japanese  ;D
http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~zep_moto/Bike_TOP/TZR250/tzr.spec.001.htm (http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~zep_moto/Bike_TOP/TZR250/tzr.spec.001.htm)

Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: eyrey1 on August 29, 2012, 11:31:36 PM
howard if you want it translating ask paul on the 2 stroke forum ,his brother is marry'd to a jap girl
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on August 30, 2012, 07:58:11 AM
Just translated it with google eyrey1 thanks, it's brilliant info thanks tvr-v4 lots to look at.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on August 31, 2012, 05:32:50 PM
No problem. ;D

Got a lot of bookmark.... ;D
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: Louis on August 31, 2012, 10:11:47 PM
QuoteGot a lot of bookmark....

Do you have this one to ;)

http://www.smkymnky.com/VoS/redirect/smkyredirect.cgi?url=http://www.smkymnky.com/VoS/R1Z/electric/cdi.html (http://www.smkymnky.com/VoS/redirect/smkyredirect.cgi?url=http://www.smkymnky.com/VoS/R1Z/electric/cdi.html)
You need to play a bid with the links, bit it shows a lot. ;D


Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on September 02, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
Put the TDR250 carbs on the R1Z yesterday and they are a vast improvement over standard, miles more grunt but it could be that the originals were jetted miles out, now just need to sort the leaking petrol tap and change the 14 front sprocket to a 15 to give it a litttle more top end.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: ypm25 on September 12, 2012, 12:38:03 PM
I'd leave it alone, I ride an R1z at the moment and its awesome. 45hp right where you want it at 9000rpm always in the power, perfect in the road. The speedo is broken so no idea what speed its doing but its great.

I'm pretty sure it has 26mm carbs, probably restricted cdi and pipes, not worth the hassel for what 5-6hp?  Compared to my race 2ma it doesn't feel much slower and you don't need to rev it to death.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on September 12, 2012, 10:16:48 PM
It might leave as it is for now as I have just bought another that i can butcher instead  >:(
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: jools on September 22, 2012, 02:54:24 AM
Make sure the carb slides can open right up - some carb tops had a restrictor in that prevented this - although I don't know if that applied to these bikes.......??
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on September 22, 2012, 09:20:11 PM
I've sold the good R1z today to a mate who is top class restorer , that leaves me with the shi**er to restore, competition is good plus he might be able to help me with my bike.


Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: Yatsushiro on September 24, 2012, 07:05:44 PM
HowARD

You may just want to check waht CDI you have fitted. If you have a 3XC-30, this was the later 'restricted' model, limited to 40bhp. Previous CDI's (3XC-00 and possibly 3XC-10) were the full 45bhp versions.

If, by the remotest possibility, you have a proper 3XC-70, name your price... ;)
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on September 24, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
What difference will a 3XC-70 make ( no i don't have one ) do you know what power they make and what money they sell for ?
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on September 24, 2012, 08:59:04 PM
Maybe -70 CDI version is for "Racing" one like for the others TZR...
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: howARD on September 24, 2012, 10:11:16 PM
Is the racing CDi unable on the road or just for race use, maybe 3XC-70 stands for 70bhp lol.
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: tzr-v4 on September 24, 2012, 10:24:02 PM
I think racing CDI is to avoid Japanese road restriction to 45hp or 40hp for late model.
-70 stands for 170hp  ;D
Title: Re: r1-z
Post by: Yatsushiro on September 25, 2012, 09:10:09 AM
The 3XC-70 was rare to the point of being almost mythical.

A few years back, they were changing hands for up to £400 on Yahoo Japan. In the last couple of months, I've seen a couple on Yahoo Japan go for between £150 & £260.

From what I understand, there was a 'one make' race series for R1-Z's, with YEC (or Mihara Specialities) CDI's, labelled as 3XC-70.

There's a fair bit of information out there, but as I don't understand Japanese (or entirely trust Google Translate), I've never got to the bottom of precisely what this CDI allows. I believe it provides for higher peak RPM, with overrun.

There is a suspicion that the 3XC-70 is almost identical to the 2XT CDI.