Hi Guys, I have been lurking on here for a number of weeks learning as much as I can. I have the opportunity to buy a TZR250 3XV and took it for a test ride. I am in the U.S.A.
In 1st. thru 4th. gear, it will rev to about 8,000 revs(slowly-not quickly like a typical 2 stroke)-go to 9,000/10,000 revs, then goes back to 7,000 rev. like an ignition retard has kicked in. It sometimes kicks and lunges. It is not backfiring. Plugs were changed 2 weeks ago and checked yesterday. Bottom/lower cylinder sparkplug is beige. Upper is slightly black and sooty, but not oiled down.(I don't believe plugs are the issue as all my past 2 strokes backfired, and hissed when the plugs went bad. This bike doesn't do it).
In 5th and 6th gears it won't rev past 6,000. The bike does not rev quickly and feels strangled. The owner says its probably just the carbs that need adjusting/balancing. However, he's like me with lots more experience with rd350 ypvs models(called rz350's in the U.S.A.), but with no knowledge of 3xv's. Currently, a good running moped/scooter will give it a run for its money, let alone an RD350 ypvs. Also, at about 8,000 onwards, the clutch sound like its slipping.
The bike is in very good condition but does not run well.
Here are details on the bike:
1994 TZR250 3xv RS
Dry clutch
It is not de-restricted
Has dry clutch
No modifications
Bike will not rev to redline
Revs slowly
bike is clean and unabused
Can anyone help me to solve these issues? Thanks
For the clutch , you need to measure the steel plates and fibre plates and check if they are within their wear limits . Check to see if any steel plates are warped .
If they are ok , blast the steel plates , you want to get rid of the shine that is on the mating surfaces . Clean them and give it a try and see if it helps . Check the freeplay in the cable too .
Slugish revving - clean carbs , try again and also check powervalves
How many kilometers on it? As Neal said a *proper* carb clean does wonders for them. Tank debris gets past the tank filter(design fault) and into the carbs. There should also be carb inlet stub type filters that somehow always gets thrown away by owners :( If those are missing then the tank debris go straight into the carb.
Worst case could be a damaged top end? Does it have any strange rattles (apart from the normal PV rattle on the bottom cylinder)? Another thing that has come up in the past was a leaking boost bottle, they can split on the seam (Wullie was that you?)
Put some pics up if you can :D
Yes, could just be a simple carb fault. Or it could be something much more expensive to fix. Tell the seller to fix it before you'll buy it maybe? Or use it as a bargaining issue bearing in mind It could potentially cost you thousands of dollars to fix if it is something serious.
As others have said, a proper clean and check over of the carbs would be a reasonable starting point.
Good look. And welcome! :D
I agree sounds like fuel starvation. Clean carbs. Soak them. Also little filters in the brass fuel pipe
Hi Guys,
Thanks for replies.
-The clutch sounds like it is slipping in the upper rev range. Down low it seems to be fully engaging.
-The bike has 13,000 kms's on it. None of the bolts are knackered and the speedo gear nut doesn't looks like its been messed with(so I assume mileage is correct).
-It does not have any strange sounds(other than the dry clutch rattle).
-I just got the Prac. Sportbike issue with Wullie's bike in it. I did see the boost bottle issue-but I don't think the owner would allow me to remove the fairings and tear into the bike. (What exactly do boost bottles do-some of the Banshee guys I know talk about them-but can't give a clear reason why you would add them to a 2 stroke). He's a bit difficult to deal with-but I don't think he's purposely concealing anything-I believe he just doesn't know. So getting him to fix it before he sells is not possible. Local Yamaha dealer told him he has no one trained to work on bikes that aren't recently made(?!)
I know it could be major work like Wullie's bike's crank-or it could be a minor cleaning. It just seems that the bike feels like a @15-20 hp 125-so I don't expect the hp to double with a cleaning.
Considering the poor running condition and I could be in for a financial nightmare-what should I offer for the bike? What does a full rebuild cost-cranks and pistons?
I will try to post pics-but its just a standard looking TZR250 which I inspected thoroughly(wherever I could considering the fairings are still on). Thanks for all the help and sorry for so many questions. Its just that I want to ride instead of spending the next few months in the garage chasing/fixing these issues.
With respect, it's probably not the bike for you then? It's clearly going to need a little work. It could be a ten minute job cleaning the crap out of the carb filters. Or you could need to do a full engine rebuild? Impossible to know until you ascertain the fault... But if you just want a bike 'to ride' then in all honesty a twenty year old two stroke that no local mechanic will touch perhaps isn't the best option for you on balance?
Don't be fooled by the looks. A bad one will cripple you financially. And emotionally... ;D I've always steered well clear of low mileage pretty ones in any case. Lack of use is worse (more expensive) than high mileage in my book...
Billy,
Where in the US are you? I purchased a 93 3XV9 project bike from an importer near me in Florida for around $4,000. I just had to have it. 8) It was not even running at the time.
Not knowing what i was looking at, or getting into, I've probably spent another $1,500-$2,000 or so more getting it somewhat sorted. It's a bit of a Frankenbike with a motor and parts from other year and model TZR's, so if the one you are looking at is not all butchered up, it's probably worth more than mine.
If your used to working on your RZ350, I don't think you'll have too much trouble getting your hands dirty on the TZR. But as Warwick said, know that your going to have to fiddle with it, it's not just an every day rider (as of know). Keep in mind that many parts for it are not available locally at your Yamaha dealer, some are, but not allot - and they are flipping expensive!
If you want to de-restrict it, which I suspect most TZR owners would, pipes, porting, ignition, etc are also in your future.
They are very unique here in the US and a hoot to ride once sorted out. I'm digging mine! ;D What is he asking for it? And please post some pix here so we can give sound advice
Here's a pic.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=160283&d=1347858791
Warick, no disrespect taken. I have a GSXR1000 and a '78 RD400 in dry storage. If I have to rebuild the TZR engine from scratch that would not be a problem. I have rebuilt 2 strokes before. I was just saying I was looking for a rideable TZR and not a project bike.
Per your reply Don't be fooled by the looks. A bad one will cripple you financially. And emotionally... I've always steered well clear of low mileage pretty ones in any case. Lack of use is worse (more expensive) than high mileage in my book...
I did find out the bike sat for at least 5 yrs. before the current owner got it. I'm thinking it may be more major than minor that I am looking at. I never try to fool/kid myself whenever I buy bikes/cars etc. I fully evaluate the situation before I jump in. Thanks for your imput.
JCSnook- I am in Ft. Laud. I won't say what the price is as I am still in negotiation-but your current investment in your TZR is in the ballpark. De-restricting would come later, but all out speed is not the quest here. I have always been a 2 stroke man and I will be until the gov't comes and take them all away.( I now hear they want to put emissions controls on 2 stroke weed wackers!)
The bike didn't run right-but it sure handled like a dream!
Quote from: Billy1 on September 17, 2012, 07:33:25 AM
Here's a pic.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=160283&d=1347858791
The link didn't work for me - It took me to a login page. Do we need to join the hobby forum to be able to view the picture(s)?
Let's see if this works
Hmmmmmm...could it be??
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_1720.jpg&hash=22b22af3469822a0bb471e95d4e8bf075a4cd986)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2F0703101048.jpg&hash=263031867bfdc3779b7aadc3539b1e9c6c5be81e)
I think so...
Jetting could be some of your rideability issues. It looks like somebody may have put pipes on this bike since it's been here in the US, or are those still stock pipes with aftermarket silencers?
Possibly. I was told the pipes are stock w/ some aftermarket stingers/end cans. I don't think those would affect the jetting to the point of such dimished performance.
I am going to ask the the owner to clean the carbs and check the boost bottles for any splits. Will advise if I learn anything new.
Quote Warwick :- "Don't be fooled by the looks. A bad one will cripple you financially. And emotionally... ;D I've always steered well clear of low mileage pretty ones in any case. Lack of use is worse (more expensive) than high mileage in my book...
Been there, done that ..... :'( But it all worked out in the end. ( Eventually ) ;D
The exhausts are stock items, as are the end-cans which have been wrapped with carbon effect stickers. If you look closely at the 2nd / lower photo, you can just make out 3XV stamped on to the top of the L/H silencers end cap, a dead giveaway.
By the sound of things, it needs a thorough service / checking over after being sat for a long period. As well as checking / cleaning out the fuel system from tank to carbs, the Power Valve system & carb synchronisation should be checked & adjusted if needed. I did indeed have a split "boost bottle" bottom seam, ( approx. 4 inches on the R/H / lower bottle ), which caused a bit of havoc during my first week of ownership ::) , but after checking, cleaning & adjusting just about everything to do with the engine, ( including what jets / needles / settings it should have in the carbs ), it ran great afterwards.
As for the clutch slip, if you don't have enough freeplay at the lever that can cause slip. I have a good 4-5 mm of free play between the lever & lever mounting bracket, any less & it starts to slip, even with ( dry clutch ) plates that have plenty wear left in them. If it has got a dry clutch fitted, it's an easy job to remove the springs to check that their "free length" is within limits. If they're less than 38 mm long it's time to replace them. ( There's 5 of them & they're not expensive ). Hope this helps as it's a shame it's not going anywhere near as good as it looks. Good luck with it, Billy. ;)
Thanks Wullie. I will pass this info on to the owner. Your bike looks fantastic-I read the article.
Billy...what ever happenedwith the SPR? Did you get it?
JC, No I did not get it. The owner wasn't willing to look into the poor running condition. He was pushing for me to buy it "as is". I did find this one(pic), but the jetting wasn't finalized, a couple of minor details needed attention and the guy wants more than $11k for it!!!
Funny thing is, I was helping him decode exactly what model he has(yay!!!for this website) and giving him some suggestions on what he should do to get it perfect.
Quote from: Billy1 on October 09, 2012, 01:38:18 AM
JC, No I did not get it. The owner wasn't willing to look into the poor running condition. He was pushing for me to buy it "as is". I did find this one(pic), but the jetting wasn't finalized, a couple of minor details needed attention and the guy wants more than $11k for it!!!
Funny thing is, I was helping him decode exactly what model he has(yay!!!for this website) and giving him some suggestions on what he should do to get it perfect.
That looks like a fine example of a 3XV9...what mine SHOULD look like! Keep looking, you'll find what you want.
i'd go along with what Wullie says, plus i'd remove those pesky little filters in the brass fuel stubs,and fit an inline fuel filter,somewhere between the fuel tap,and the carbs....HTH....... ;D