So it seems everyone has intentions of building one but I'v never seen one.
Anyone got one or building one?
;)
There is one.. Dougs new race bike ???
Or a has-been contemplating un-retiring...
8) any preview pics available.... ?
What model 3xv 3ma or 1kt ?
1KT/2MA I'm on about.
I'm sure someone put a pic of their F3 TZR 1KT/2MA on Skips forum and has owned it since the 90's.
I'm in the process of getting a F3 2MY ready for the Australian Historic Titles in November.
It has F3 Ignition, crankshaft and pipes. The top end is only blue printed but I think I'll rrun out of time to get it to F3 spec before the races.
Not sure how it will run as it is though. Waiting for Log Book from MA and it will need new slicks.
This is how it arrived - paint jobs is changing:
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Great stuff Jools. Better change that number though.
Mine gets it's F3 crank before the Aus Titles too.
Terry's 2XT went well at the 1hr and he will also have it at the Aus Titles.
Dave G partnered Terry at the 1hr and enjoyed it but has other projects to finish before he puts his together.
David R will be building his next year similar to my spec.
Here is a pic of mine at the Barry Sheene.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Fmarktzr250bs12.jpg&hash=af0709e8075093245b26a833f521ae6339109acb)
Quote from: mboddy on September 20, 2012, 11:47:17 PM
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Fmarktzr250bs12.jpg&hash=af0709e8075093245b26a833f521ae6339109acb)
Rear swingarm & caliper mounting look non stock ? An FZR400 or 250 ?
Can you give details of the modifications ?
FZR250 3LN swingarm goes straight in without mods.
Use a SZR660 or 3MA rocker narrowed by 1mm each side of front mount.
You can use the 3LN rear caliper mount with the original caliper, but I made my own in 6mm alloy to mount the Brembo F05.
11mm Brembo master cylinder mounted to the top of the rear set bracket.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzrrearfolding.jpg&hash=7dfca6c194880c9cc1d8bc3e06c6acd2fefe907b)
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Mark likes his Brembos.......... ;)
Sure do.
I like that bike !
Quote from: Neal on September 21, 2012, 05:02:29 PM
I like that bike !
Me too. Best bike I have ever ridden.
Do you want more pics?
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr250top.jpg&hash=7c16dd2e0242d011d90878c2f7adc9a2caf5469f)
Why the FZR swinger over the stock one Mark ???
Quote from: jools on September 22, 2012, 02:46:47 AM
Why the FZR swinger over the stock one Mark ???
I always liked the look of the Deltabox swing arms.
It is about 1/2 kilo lighter and appears to be stiffer.
Quote from: mboddy on September 22, 2012, 06:17:07 AM
I always liked the look of the Deltabox swing arms.
It is about 1/2 kilo lighter and appears to be stiffer.
The FZR250 3LN is in alloy ?
The FZR400-600 from same era are metal not alloy.
Rear wheel is 2XT in 3.5" wide and normally same as FZR250 ?
Quote from: tzr-v4 on September 22, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
The FZR250 3LN is in alloy ?
Yes. It has more weight around the front and less near the axle.
Quote from: tzr-v4 on September 22, 2012, 05:11:52 PM
Rear wheel is 2XT in 3.5" wide and normally same as FZR250 3LN ?
Yes. 3LN wheels are common here because the engines blow up.
3.5" rear and 2.5" or 2.15" front are used with GP125 or GP-Mono slick tyres or racing wet tyres.
Pic with Bridgestone front slick:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr250_12-01-04.jpg&hash=9df72888ba8ca53f530749acfe9beb332510528e)
TZR250 2XT front wheel is 2.75" wide as standard so 110/70 tire is OK.
Front axle is larger 15m in diameter is memory serves me :D
So front fork legs are different.
FZR250 early model front wheel is same as TZR250 1KT 2.15 or 2.50
Will check which as 2.75 wheel ;)
Best size for the GP125 or GP-mono slick is 2.5" rim.
SRX400 or SRX600 17" wheel is 2.5" and disk lines up perfectly.
Once you ride these bikes on GP125 slicks then you will never consider anything else.
What size are the slicks you are using Mark ?
I'm still undecided................ :o
They are GP125 slicks - 90 front and 120 rear.
We will be racing against NSR250, RGV250, KR-1S and 3MA which all are newer designs with wider wheels, twin disks and stiffer frames.
Our advantage is that we will corner like a GP125. GP125s corner faster than GP250s.
No way would I give away my advantage by fitting wider tyres.
Is the class allow engine tuning ?
If not power will be an issue against NSR, RGV...
Quote from: tzr-v4 on September 23, 2012, 12:41:40 PM
Is the class allow engine tuning ?
If not power will be an issue against NSR, RGV...
Engine tuning is no problem.
You are running 2XT top end ?
Using the 2XT large reed valves too.
Quote from: tzr-v4 on September 23, 2012, 03:32:50 PM
You are running 2XT top end ?
Using the 2XT large reed valves too.
Yes. And 34mm Carbs, modified YPVS controller and Mestre ignition total loss.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr34mm.jpg&hash=d7a56ddc40334df7d2f2e79d0e233d67e52464a7)
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Cylinders are 1KT = cast iron ones
2XT are nikasil ones => pistons hard to find (TKRJ has run a batch).
Jean Paul Mestre ignition?
Are you run it on a dyno ?
I have only raced it with the 1KT cylinders so far.
The 2XT cylinders are on their way back from NZ Cylinders who have stripped the Nickosil
and bored them to fit DT125R Wossner pistons and then put the Nickosil back on.
Philip in England is making us a few sets of inner powervalve bushes as they also are unavailable.
Here are the first two he has made me:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2F2xt_pair_front.jpg&hash=912df0f3818df85ce88ec20b9e3ed6f28b0d1dba)
He has also made the other powervalve bushes in the past and so has those dimensions too.
I have used the JP Mestre ignition and adjustable YPVS in my racing TDR250 for quite some time and so I know it is a good thing.
Haven't had either the TDR or TZR on the dyno yet though.
It'll be good to share part sources for the 2XT engine.
I've got my new piston (genuine yamaha) using Yahoo auction and were not really cheap.
NLA from Yamaha too.
Fitted up the ASI 40mm radiator today. Not bad for $160 delivered.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr250asi.jpg&hash=c9af346238f88e7c9562430bb1dd9aabf17be786)
Where did you get it from ?
Krazy Katt http://www.krazy-katt.com/radiators.htm (http://www.krazy-katt.com/radiators.htm) ?
It is a 350 YPVS radiator direct from the factory in China.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40mm-High-per-aluminum-radiator-yamaha-RZ350-RD350-RD250-RD-350-250-/300769350943?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item460740151f#ht_2064wt_1167 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40mm-High-per-aluminum-radiator-yamaha-RZ350-RD350-RD250-RD-350-250-/300769350943?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item460740151f#ht_2064wt_1167)
Their picture is incorrect with the lower mounts shown in the wrong position. They have now fixed that issue.
The top mount needs moving and I also decided to give the top hose a bit of extra clearance.
You use the remote filler from the 350 YPVS.
I still need to weld the top mount bracket.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr250asit1.jpg&hash=25796658ae8f4c751a7252043668aceeb52869b7)
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A lot of progress this weekend. It will be on the track on Thursday.
Dash now includes EGT.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzregt.jpg&hash=83edd127534cbfabe9126b9e01426819c40d0075)
Gecko Racing DFR replica billet exhaust manifolds with some minor cutting and drilling.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2F2xtdfrport.jpg&hash=53583ddd353709ec4e249c8961b18a12ac73f4ab)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2F2xtdfr.jpg&hash=0e1eb892206ebe47799fad5af943dae0b4e86081)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr2xtdfrpipes.jpg&hash=575597d3bcefff643975d2e761725ade4a7e9f12)
Took it to the track yesterday. Now all run in and tuned.
Very happy with how quick it is and how well it handles.
Suspension Smith went over the suspension after one of the track sessions and gave it the ok.
He suggested I raise the back a tad more but the rest is fine.
Ground clearance was no problem.
Now just three weeks until the Australian Titles.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr250wp25oct12.jpg&hash=eeeb7c4e79ce22b6dd0c03ab0ae18892770cf837)
Sadly i won't be there Mark as my roster in WA doesn't allow it :-[
It does mean I now have time to prepare it for next years BSFoS properly. ;)
Can be 99% certain you will be riding for a national title as there will be a late entry to make the required numbers for a title.
What are the pipes, Mark ?
That's no good Jools. I was looking forward to having a TZR dice with you. Bring on the Barry!
I hope you are right about the Title. Jan was a bit concerned about numbers when I rang on Wednesday.
The pipes are 'you can have that junk in the corner if you take it all away with you now'.
They work pretty well though. The silencers are Tyga.
The original manifolds were cast alloy and they were broken and welded and rebroken.
Very pleased that I found the Gecko Racing manifolds and that all they needed was the mounting holes drilled.
I spoke with Jan yesterday.
Quote from: EEKNOWS on October 27, 2012, 12:18:12 AM
I spoke with Jan yesterday.
Great. That was P6 250 Proddy or just P6 250?
Proddy
Proddy. Woo hoo! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
nice bike!! a question ... that measures have the pipes?? the width and length specifications sections please. I want one like that!
Lectron or Mikuni carbs?
greetings, and good luck in the race
I'll have to measure the pipes.
The carbs are 34mm Lectrons.
Sad news, phone call from Jan said all up to 250GP, there was 10 entries now there seems to be only 4 :'( Where are all the 18in slicks theses days...............................
QuoteThere is one.. Dougs new race bike
Pair of race bikes actually :P
Better start looking over your shoulder Smiley ;)
At 250gm my new front guard is half the weight of the original.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzrcarbon.jpg&hash=19e415b5a2ad10400a5e47412d0d060ba21258ab)
http://japan.webike.net/YAMAHA/FZR250/Fenders/824/1114/mc/p.ref=model-top/ (http://japan.webike.net/YAMAHA/FZR250/Fenders/824/1114/mc/p.ref=model-top/)
Hi
That fairing does not look like a 2ma/1kt faring, if not what is it
I Dont suppose you have any spare 2xt powervalves do you
Thanks
Fairing is ARD for the 2ma. Screen made by GP500 from USA.
Still waiting for the CNC file for the improved 2XT power valves.
Update on the 2XT power valves:
In the next few weeks we should have a pair of plastic 3D printed valves to try for fit in the cylinders
so that we can finalise the dimensions for the billet valves.
Great... post pictures.
We have a 3D printer from HP a work but quite expensive to run as there is no alternative to HP plastic wire.
Plastic bobbins have an electronic ship to prevent the use of non genuine ones...
But nice printer for prototyping parts.
A bit of an update:
As I have quit the sh#te job in WA I have some time to dedicate to the F3 build ready for the Barry Sheene Festival of Speed in 30 days time.
Examination of the top end revealed it pretty much standard so that has gone off to Bruce Woodley with the power valves and F3 manual for him to wave his magic tuning wand over. Also O ringing the cylinders so I can dispense with the head gasket.
Being 1KT cylinders on iron bores at 0.5mm+ I opted for some fresh pistons & rings. I thought I would try a set from Japan that were very reasonably priced and appear very well cast and robust compared to the TKRJ's that were in.
They will be balanced before fitting but will keep an eye out for some 2XT's and follow marks example I think.
I wonder if any of the 56mm YZR125 pistons match ??
Got a 3LN front wheel and once the bearings are changed for the std 12mm axle I'll get the Pirelli Slick changed over from the 2.15 original rim.
The 3.5 rear rim fitted fine. The front wheel spacers will need replacing both sides to centre the wheel and get the disc concentric.
Not sure if they are nay good to you, but i am pretty certain i can still get the F3 yamaha pistons
Thanks
I've seen on Yahoo auction F3 pistons for 2XT too.
OEM 2XT pistons are NLA from Yamaha... >:(
TKRJ are made a batch but... maybe all sold too.
Quote from: yamtz250 on February 12, 2013, 01:32:57 PM
Not sure if they are nay good to you, but i am pretty certain i can still get the F3 yamaha pistons
Thanks
That would be worth following up, even if they go in the drawer for later use ;)
Let me know what you find out, but at the end of the day i think what Mark has done will be more cost effective.
I did get a set of YZR 54mm pistons from Mitaka to try out on a bucket project that never materialised. These were considered for an LC250 with a Nicosil bore but I never took it any further.
Quote from: jools on February 12, 2013, 10:48:56 AM
A bit of an update:
As I have quit the sh#te job in WA I have some time to dedicate to the F3 build ready for the Barry Sheene Festival of Speed in 30 days time.
Hi Jools ,
At what track is this festival happening ?
thanks
http://2stroker.createforumhosting.com/topic6518.html
As the link shows its at Eastern Creek or to give it its new name - Sydney Motor Sport Park............ ::)
Lets hope that we have enough entries to make it a class.
Also the NSW state titles will be held there in April - it would be good if we could get a class - need at least 10 proddy 250 P6 bikes for that.
Looking at last years runners it could possibly scrape in.
Quote from: jools on February 12, 2013, 10:48:56 AM
..............
Got a 3LN front wheel and once the bearings are changed for the std 12mm axle I'll get the Pirelli Slick changed over from the 2.15 original rim.
The 3.5 rear rim fitted fine. The front wheel spacers will need replacing both sides to centre the wheel and get the disc concentric.
Bearings were no good and it seems that the 42mm OD size required to fit the 3LN wheel with a 12mm axle are not available. Resorting to plan B: - captive top hat sleeves in the 3LN wheel from both sides that will have the extra length on the outer face so that I can use the original 12mm wheel spacers.
Hi Jools
I bored the fork legs to take the 15mm axle and tapped the 14mm thread.
The legs now are the same as 2XT.
Mark
Who has all the 18in slicks now :D
1KT / 2MA / 2XT / 3XC all have 17" front and rear as original fitment.
I considered that mark but my wets are still on the original skinny wheels with the 37 x 12 x 13 bearings.
At some stage I would have to machine those wheels out to take the larger 42 x 15 x13 bearings of the 3LN as I don't believe the 37 OD bearings are available for a 15mm axle..............unless you know otherwise ?? :-\
Fair enough. I did the same until I got the extra 15mm wheel.
had a crack at the wheel spacers last night to convert the 3LN wheel to fit with the 2MA 12mm axle.
All seemed simple enough - each side would have a captive spacer of 24mm outside diameter with a 15mm reudced step that slid into the wheel bearing by about 25mm. The disc side needed to be 20mm from the wheel bearing to fork leg with the opposite side requiring 32mm, a 12mm nominal hole was bored through each spacer to accept the standard front axle.
This would centralise the wheel and allow concentricity of the disc and caliper.
the only issue was when i fit the disc to the wrong side for the trial fit and wondered why the spokes hit the caliper :o I then realised that the two sides of the wheel were not identical. turning the wheel over and swapping the disc cured the proble ;)
I got an email from Bruce Woodley to say the top end work was finished, with just the piston protrusion and squish to check when fitting.
Will post up some photos when they arrive. He did mention that after a light hone that these cyclinders would probably benefit from a rebore in the not too distant future.
What in the way of piston oversizes are available - is 0.5mm the largest ??
Jools
OEM Yamaha top out at +0.5mm.
With Wossners, I'm running at ø59mm...
57.5mm Wossners are maximum within class limits.
Thats good to know,
so are Wossners available in 0.25mm steps all the way from 56.5mm to 57.5mm ??
Not sure Jools. PJME only list in 0.5mm steps.
http://www.pjme.co.uk/acatalog/Yamaha_DT125R_Engine_Parts_Top_End.html (http://www.pjme.co.uk/acatalog/Yamaha_DT125R_Engine_Parts_Top_End.html)
If that links is correct it appears they do - so the DT125R pistons fit ok?
Not a bad price either mind you I noticed that they aren't Wossner....
Are there any TZ pistons that are the same pin dia, crown height etc that can be considered?
(not for oversizes obviously)
Look closer Jools. The 2nd set are Wossner.
Apologies, my short sightedness smacks me down again ;D ;D
Got the slick swapped over today and the wheel back in the bike.
The paint on the wheel will have to wait for now.
Still waiting arrival of the top end for fitting before I zoom over to WA tomorrow for a few days work.
I heard somewhere YZ125L 1983/84 (something like 39W-11631-00-95 ;) )
The YZ piston is probably a quite good option as long as the ring locating pin lines up. It has the correct gudgeon pin dia. and the compression height of 30.8 mm is very close to the 2XT's 30.0 mm. It has a single ring which is all thats need for a race bike. It is available in 56.5mm (not 56.35mm) from what I can see so you would still be replating your cylinder.
All stuff to consider thanks guys,
Now all I need is to get out from under this Tropical Cyclone Rusty ...... :o
Supposedly heading back to Sydney on Thursday - I don't think so at the moment :(
it is a pleasure, so I love this little bike ...
cylinder with nickasil can see the option TDR / TZR 4FU piston (but flat head, rings must be suitable for a proper functioning ... unleaded gasoline)
I mounted one in the past ... works quite well in round head, but rather 'violent' ... lack of development ;D
I just heard that for the PCRA Barry Sheene Festival of Speed they have combined the Period 4 & 5 250's with the Period 6 250 Production bikes !!!
Now I have to chose between riding the LC and the TZR...........
So I entered the 3XV as a second event now, but its not really sorted yet :o
I don't think that will be an issue for me Jools.
My TZR should be competitive against the GP bikes.
Its not the GP bikes per se I'm concerned with just the grouping of different classes in general which affects the Historic bikes more than any other.
I entered my Period 5 250LC and the P6 TZR250 in the Production class for the Barry Sheene Festival of Speed, but now on close of entry it is announced that they are both grouped in the same race. :-\
The plan this year was to run those two bikes in the PCRA championship ie if it is separate races, but If the PCRA championship mimics this format then there is a decision to be made over which bike to run not to mention a lot of wasted cost & effort in preparation of the bike that loses out.
I am sure there are a few more who will be affected by this too (yourself included Mark). Don't get me wrong the race is perhaps the best place for this P6 class but there was no indication that this would be the case in the Supp Regs.
Hi Jools. There are a few of us in the same boat. We should talk to Jan at the Barry.
Brave man........... ;D
I just mentioned it to her in an email and she snapped !!
reckons I should do her job if I think it was "sooooooooooooooeasy" as she put it. :o
I already mentioned this to Higgsy at the Island Classic but not sure muchm will come of it unless we campaign - like you say at the Barry.
She was mailing the final instructions out yesterday so lets wait & see what else is combined - she did say others were !!
I have changed my entry for the Barry Sheene.
Racing the TZR in P6 250 and the TDR in P6 250 Production.
The RD250LC will be in P5 350.
Got rid of the cheap battery drill battery and fitted a Ballistic EVO2.
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I have one of those fitted too ;)
I went into the garage to find a pool of fuel under the bike last night - looks like the float bowl seal had failed. >:(
I managed to find a couple of new ones at bikebiz that I'll pick up tomorrow.
Are you using the Gangster Choppers mounting bracket too?
No, the Std front fairing bracket I am using, for now, has a plate I added which has a battery holder that I had in my box of spares - not sure what its off possibly a later TZ ???
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The weekend was a bit of a fizzer for me....... :(
In the first practice session I pulled in after two laps with gearbox oil all over the back tyre and my boot - which was the first thing I noticed as my foot slipped off the peg.
After cleaning it up and checking I removed the kick start and siliconed around the shaft as this looked like the leak spot but it was a lot of oil.
didn't even complete 1 lap in the next session - same problem. Another check over shows no obvious leaks so I am assuming the crank or crankcase seals are buggered and its pressurising the gearbox once I get on the pace.
at tickover there is no sign of a problem.
So a strip down and check required.
I had a great weekend.
2nd in P6 250cc on the TZR and 2nd in P6 250cc Production on the TDR.
Got down to 1:55s on the TZR but will easily better that when I am more familiar with the bike.
It was running a bit wider in corners than either the TDR or RDLC so I will jack the back up a tad and lower the front a tad.
I think slightly stiffer springs in the forks will help too.
Other than that it was perfect. Very happy!
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2Ftzr2013bsfos.jpg&hash=9e53d2255906ed01efc2831dc32ddde8b19ee70d)
Congratulations Mark I am very happy you had a good weekend.
I think I found the cause of my Mallady at the Barry Sheene & fortunately it wasnt crank seals..............
More embarassing it was basic operator brain failure - for some reason I had topped the gearbox up twice :-[ :-[
That was obviously the cause for the excess oil spewing out the breather over my foot and rear tyre !!
(NNote: I must refer to my build sheets after a lengthy lay up. :o)
I also found a wire off the switch which would explain its lack of pull at the top end in the last race as the power valve was not operating & probably closed all the time.
SO with a late entry for the NSW titles this weekend I'll get another chance to try it out ;)
That'd do it, Jools... :o :-[ :D Better luck next time 8). Not sure I've seen the F3?
Good luck Jools. Wish I was going.
Shame Mark,
I was hoping to do a comparison with your bike to see how they fare, that will have to wait for the first round at the North circuit.
More annoyingly MNSW have combined the classes again so I have to choose between the TZR and LC again........... >:(
(I'll take it along as a back up bike)
I also found that the crankcases were full of fuel so have replaced all the pipes, filters taps etc for quick release fuel connections.
Plugs removed and a 60 second blast on the paddock starter in second gear had the garage covered in unburned avgas/ motul mix ;D.
(stator wiring disconnected of course)
I'll be at round one. See you then. Mark
Yes Mark,
provided I can sort this power valve issue..... :o
I have a dyno day tomorrow so will get to the bottom of it one way or another I hope.
this is my F3
Time,
does your bike have the full F3 kit (crank, ignition pipes etc) ?
what is the midrange pull like up to 8000rpm?
certainly sad with TM28ss carburetor .... more is better ;)
Yeah, I will probably go to 32's at some stage.
Just need to get this lack of midrange sorted.
An area I havn't considered perhaps are the pipes -
The F3 pipes look ok but came without silencers. I fitted a pair of Tyga silencers - huge great torpedo items!
The stinger is quite a large diameter too compared with the TZ Mike silencers on my 3XV.
I am using the Tyga silencers and they are ok on mine.
Burt what pipes are you using Mark ? = modified originals ??
Jools you have made a # of mods lately, can you trace the mid range problem to one change or have you changed more than one thing at a time.
The picture on page one of this F3 discussion of your bike shows an nice set of silencers, the stingers appear to be reasonably long , a larger dia in the silencer should not be an issue.
Hope you get it sorted soon, I want to see the two Aussie bikes go head to head.
The pipes are 'you can have all that stuff in the corner if you take it away now'.
They may be one off locally produced.
They are fat bodied and quite short which helps top end.
I didn't measure them up compared to the Nikkons but they did look similar.
They may be slightly fatter than the Nikkons.
The pipes on page 1 were the original TZR pipes that had been "gutted" with home made silencers.
This bike was basically stock and from memory ran pretty well but not exceptionally quick.
I then obtained F3 Crank, ignition & pipes from Japan. The cylinders and heads were tuned as per the F3 manual to match the rest of the kit. The F3 gear was used of unknown quality so there is a possibility of something not working correctly.
The PV controller proved to be faulty - not closing on start up which I believed was the culprit but substituting two other PV controllers into the circuit didn't really improve things.
Time has run out for the moment, but I havn't given up. I wanted tocomnpare the dimensions of the F3 pipes with the originals - I may even swap them over to see if this has any effect - but I'm planning to schedule a day on the dyno with all the different bits and pieces to try and dial it in properly.
OK, gotta get back on the case for this as I've entered it in the PCRA Sth Circuit Rnd 4 at the end of the month.
First think to address will be installing the Modified YPVS controller and see how that changes anything. I'll be looking at initially setting it to open a bit later around 7500rpm to try and fill that hole in.
If this fails then I will try giving the static timing a bit more advance from 0.85mm to 1.0mm to see how that changes anything.
I've run out of time for any dyno tweaking so it will have to be seat of the pants work !
Well,
quick report as thats as long as the practice session lasted !
No improvement, with mid range pickup and on this track that meant keeping the revs up with the inevitable consequences - big end failure on 2nd lap. managed to limp home to pits but once engine stopped it locked solid on the bottom end.
Hope the F3 crank isnt too badly knackered :P
This will give me the impetus to sort this out once and for all, and with a rebuilt crank, rebore and nes pistons, I should be able to rule out the mechanical side of things.
one more project for summer............ ;D
Sad to hear about your crank Jools. Hope you get it all sorted for PCRA 2014.
I am still coming to terms with mine.
I think I need to change the seat unit to stop me sliding back in the seat and to make sure I stay up close to the tank.
Because with the bike being so light it keeps on lifting the front - often not by a small amount either.
I ran my revs right off the tacho during one start because I couldn't get it to change up a gear when the front end was pointing at the sky.
It could probably use a little extra ride height at the back too.
Even though I fitted treaded tyres to the TDR250 yesterday I was still faster on the TDR than on the TZR which is running slicks.
The TDR initially felt really bad after only having slicks on it for about 10 years. I qualified last on the grid because I did not have confidence in the tyres.
But as the day went on I learned to be more forceful with it and now don't think the race compound Savas will slow me down at all.
But the TZR requires me not to force it. You almost only need to think about what you want it to do and it does it.
I love both bikes and it is good that they are so different.
I agree Mark,
The TZR on those 125 slicks is telepathic. in only the two laps i did yesterday is was very confidence inspiring.
I know you have always been an advocate of the smaller width tyres and am fast becoming a convert.
In contrast the LC with 110 front and 130 rear took some muscling around and I was having quite a few rear end slides exiting some corners on the gas until they got fully warmed up. I plan on changing the front to a 90 section and move the 110 to the back which might help with the chattering on the front end.
With the engine of the TZR I'm going to put the OEM crank and ignition back in and get it dialled in with the programmable PV controller.
The F3 ignition will go to Grant for checking while the crank is rebuilt. The I may look at some 32mm Lectrons..............
Quote from: mboddy on September 30, 2013, 12:57:03 AM
Even though I fitted treaded tyres to the TDR250 yesterday I was still faster on the TDR than on the TZR which is running slicks.
The TDR initially felt really bad after only having slicks on it for about 10 years. I qualified last on the grid because I did not have confidence in the tyres.
But as the day went on I learned to be more forceful with it and now don't think the race compound Savas will slow me down at all.
Can you point me to the savas tires you are using ?
Sava MC50 M-Racer
I was using the super-soft race compound on the front and the soft on the rear, both at 26psi. Air temperature on the day reached 26C.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FFlyer-MC-50-ENG.jpg&hash=dd97dc15bb8672ffb038fe1db0a3a9ec47b1f925)
http://www.savatech.eu/novelties/new-tyres/400-mc50-m-racer-new-motorcycle-tyre.html (http://www.savatech.eu/novelties/new-tyres/400-mc50-m-racer-new-motorcycle-tyre.html)
Who is the dealer in Aus Mark and how does the price compare ?
I get all my tyres from Whites Racing Products. They are in Ingleburn.
They come to all our race meetings and support us and so I support them.
They always do me a good price. Always much cheaper than my local shops.
Give Craig a call and tell him you race with PCRA and I put you on to him.
I am sure that you will be happy with the price.
http://www.wrp.net.au (http://www.wrp.net.au)
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Used Sava tyres before, hmm not good!
Pirrelli Rosso 2 on a 2.75 and 3.5" rim, very good
Quote from: ypm25 on December 17, 2013, 10:42:58 AM
Used Sava tyres before, hmm not good!
Pirrelli Rosso 2 on a 2.75 and 3.5" rim, very good
The Sava are not well made like the Bridgestone slicks.
But they are available in a soft race compound.
Are the Pirrellis available in a soft race compound?
I don't think so, but they are new modern tyre and they cut it on the race track this year. The treaded tyre trend in YPMs this year was Pirelli Rossi 2 font and rear, or Bridstone BT090 front and Dunlop 209gp on the rear. Both combos would give good lap times just depended on the rider what they liked.
However if I could try anything... I heard the 125 racers are saying the biggest advantage the moto3s had in the British champs was the tyres. I'd check that out...
The savas were tried out in the YPMs last year or the year before with no good results. I dont think the tyres are even round, hard to balance and vibration at the front. Most people only did a lap then binned em.
What size do you use?
110/70/17 in the front but the back starts at 150 I think ?
Update
since the powers that be (MA) have decided that the 250 production class will be just that next year with std wheels & road tyres etc, and no SP or F3 parts will be allowed I will be removing all the F3 parts and restoring the bike back to standard.
Bit of a bummer really as I never got to see how it would go, but it does mean I don't have to fork out for a F3 crank rebuild just yet - am I glad I didn't by all the TZ parts to do it !!
It will then be sold on to provide cash towards a new set of TZ750 crankcases................ :P
Bummer Jools. Anything you want to swap for?
I have committed too far to back out now. So I will be going all out to turn mine into a TZ beater.
And the TDR250 that was also P6 250 Proddy is being raced in the P6 500 class this year.
So it will get some extra go as well.
Still not a definite if finances improve........ :o - that's the problem having too many bikes & projects I guess.
I just wonder how it will go against the RGV's in standard trim though. Must read the rules carefully before jumping to conclusions. ;)
Quote from: jools on March 08, 2014, 05:47:32 AM
Update
since the powers that be (MA) have decided that the 250 production class will be just that next year with std wheels & road tyres etc, and no SP or F3 parts will be allowed
We can all thank that F^#KWIT from Perth who log booked a VJ21 with 4.5 X 17in rear and a 3.5in front. Friend is in the same boat with his RGV just have to enter in the GP class. More costly to go back than stay as is.
No, MA is at fault. We had the rules and then they decided to radically alter them.
And not at the request of the riders in the class.
Yes MA did change them in response to/ in advance from things getting out of hand, was the story I got.
Just because someone at MA thought it was out of hand.
It looked to me like a rapidly growing class that was developing well.
Now it will have this new rules setback for a couple of years. Lets hope it gets over it.
But I doubt it will be as good as it would have been if they didn't stuff it up so badly.
Problem as I see it you shouldn't f**k with the rules this early on in the class with no prior reasonable warning. There will a few pissed off & out of pocket thanks to some wankers !
Lozza,
these wankers are all over the place P5 un limited has been screwed - and don't even mention the GSXR750T in Pre Modern...........
Sorry to hear the news boys, Here the post classic ass sets the rules, can't you run within the posties structure,you know what you want and it should be simpler to sort things out there.
This means you sometimes have to run your own meetings , but the classics and MA should be glad to add you in, to boost numbers.
An update at last!
I compared the pipes I am running with the F3 kit pipes.
Tuned length is the same and it looks like they were based on the kit pipe dimensions.
Only difference is that the stinger diameter is slightly larger.
So I don't think your midrange problem is the pipes Jools.
I will fit the F3 kit pipes though because they tuck in a bit closer which will improve my ground clearance.
Maybe your issue is carby.
Are you running the air box? Have you done the F3 carby mods and fitted the primary type needle jets.
If not then maybe you were a bit lean in the midrange (too slow to pick up fuel) and that resulted in your crank failure.
That would make it feel peaky.
You could be right there Mark.
I was trying to run similar settings (with airbox) to the std ignition/moded pipe set up.
As I'm going back to stock crankshaft & ignition with F3 pipes I'll see how it performs. That will be a while off yet though. Certainly it won't appear at the track till 2015 earliest.
Why is it always politics that screw up racing. Just look at ASBK! Or what was.
Does any one have the new rules? Have the rules changed from the M.A rules in Moms 2014! They seemed ok but very open to interpretation.
Shock should be open. As std ones are getting bit long in the tooth and not much you can do to them.
As for kit parts, not including pipes.. They should be for gp class I think.
What ever the outcome I will be there in 2015 to swap some paint :). Jools maybe we can both be ready for island classic
Dooks
I doubt there be a class for these bikes at the Island Classic unfortunately.
So you need to get a 250LC........... ;D
I managed to dig the bike out and remove the engine this arvo.........
trying to rotate the crankshaft confirmed my suspicions that it would probably be a crank big end failure.
Imagine the surprise when I pulled the LH cylinder off to find this mess.......
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010010_zps89de2f66.jpg&hash=89f0f68a851c54a1464be5dfaf1c54fd30e60f5d) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010010_zps89de2f66.jpg.html)
The complete lower exhaust side of the piston gone ah yes - over revving cheapo pistons might do this :o
The other piston bits were preventing the crankshaft fully rotating and there are c couple of nice little bits stuck in the big end slot of the rod.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010013_zps7caccf3b.jpg&hash=6cbeea5d4c1f5ee3d5b2da39d51fe28bf0a249c6) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010013_zps7caccf3b.jpg.html)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010014_zpsff08f5fe.jpg&hash=0971a73a3407be173726fb04b3e9c2b41e174e8c) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010014_zpsff08f5fe.jpg.html)
Tomorrow Ill split the cases to see how bad the damage is.
Nasty business that :o
Ouch! When did that happen?
small end faillure ?
No the small end is/was good - I certainly won't use that again.
It appears that the entire front face just cracked off.
I have ordered a set of 1.0mm oversize Cruisin Image pistons as I had been using those in the race LC for some time without problems.
I still think the problem was over revving. I just notice a bit of skirt jammed in the transfer too !!
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010010_zps35eeb40a.jpg&hash=fd7d4649097066a6485d347bd592424328e0f857) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010010_zps35eeb40a.jpg.html)
Luckily the bore isn't too bad, but it will be taken out with the rebore to remove a slight ovality that was there previously.
This happened last year at the final club round an is the first opportunity I had to strip it down.
My mate bought pistons from them for his RD400 .5 oversize and fitted them and it rattled bad. On inspection the piston was stamped .5 but was way undersize.
The rebore will be done when the pistons get here to give them a chance.
Not may other options I've seen around here - not sure if there are any Wossners that fit ??
I had a re think today. After cleaning and checking the crankshaft, I considered it still had plenty of life in it. After removing the broken pieces of piston skirt and a thorough blast clean rinse and pressure cleanse with turpentine of the mains and big ends and a visual inspection, its worth the risk in trying it out.
once installed and oiled it spins freely with no tight spots or roughness. I then looked at the cylinder and after tapping out the wedged in piston pieces in the transfer I was surprised to find there were no gouges or scratches on the bore surface.
In the parts draw I found the original genuine 0.5 oversize pistons and after a light hone they were fitted.
I just started her up and she sounds nice and crisp with no vibration or odd noises, so I may just enter it in the next PCRA round to see how she runs. It still has the f3 ignition for now but I will look at trying the OEM CDI as well.
Now to fix the silencer mountings and dry fit the TZ250S fairing.
Great news Jools. See you at Rd4.
Cheers Mark - maybe I should have looked at it a little earlier...... ::)
The TZ250S fairing is finally fitted. It took a little longer than anticipated with the front TZ bracket I opted to use causing some mental issues, finally got it to fit with everything clearing ok, although it will need the sides trimming around the gear change lever and a major removal for the lick start. I'm not going to do this last bit as I do have a starter trolley and I think it willmupset the look of the fairing.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010011_zps895ad6f9.jpg&hash=5700f5331a04d24758ca0cf22dac2cc427dd68a4) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010011_zps895ad6f9.jpg.html)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010012_zps82e96172.jpg&hash=d391e7ee0d93385021fa8382439e237280414e3c) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010012_zps82e96172.jpg.html)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010013_zps46710a78.jpg&hash=96bc630616963f820b7f59cbf7272e30b330f6e8) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010013_zps46710a78.jpg.html)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP1010014_zpsca1e7534.jpg&hash=255b151fbe2416716867501293fca8271a08323c) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P1010014_zpsca1e7534.jpg.html)
It needs a bit of paint, probably some blue speedblocks to complement the rest of the bike, still as it looks now its still better than that scungy black thing eh Mark ;D
Silencers were drilled & remounted with the nozzles now parallel to the bike.
Looks good Jools.
The black fairing went to Duncan as part of a 'build your own' TZR250 P6 250 Proddy kit.
cheers, I also chopped off the old ignition and clock mounts from the top yoke and tidied it up - I can see the instruments better now.
Looks great! Can you post a picture from left and right side at 90 degree angle? I want to see how far the fairing comes back compared to the frame, i have no box starter
The bike is in storage at the moment, but when I go down to the lock up I'll take the photos you requested.
It still displayed the same issues during testing so I have pulled the ignition off to send away for testing to eliminate that area.
Changing to a 50/50 fuel mix (Avgas/Unleaded) made no difference either. So it has slipped down the list of prorities for now - plus I'm enjoying the 3XV too much ;)
You could have your fork tube cut about 50mm and re-threaded for the fork cap.
Then they will come just a the top triple clamp.
I've a picture somewhere of the job done.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frd500lc.free.fr%2FMagnyCours2012%2FJS%2Foriginal%2FRD500LC-MC2012-JS_0110.jpg&hash=836b6d30135490dacfb1699cdf654b8581ea8782)
I heard back from Grant Maguire a few days ago where I have my complete TZR250 F3 ignition being analysed to see if there is any fault - but it appears to be working ok.
The power valves seem to be working as expected too opening around 5500 and fully open by 10,000.
Interesting that he said when shutting off they stay open till revs drop to around 3000 before starting to close. I'm wondering if that is a timing issue - he is not giving it time to respond ? That may account for that hole I'm experiencing - what I really need is a device to show me on the dash what it is doing. Maybe a potentiometer grafted onto the servo motor with some LED's showing its position?
He did question the 0.85 static timing figure and reckons this might be a mis print. He has never come across a figure so retarded and the advance curve he measured will accept a 1.8 static setting without any danger. So I'm going to set this at 1.4 for a start and see what if any improvement there is.
I just had another chat to Grant about the 3YL ignitions he is testing, and we spoke about the TZR again. It seems I misunderstood him and that the YPVS closing follows the reverse of the opening process so that's all ok.
I have decided that I will bolt it all back on, make sure the earth to the servo motor is good and if that doesn't work I'll try advancing the static timing to 1.2, then 1.4 etc to see if that solves the issue.
Got a practice day at the Creek on the 11th so will take it for a good set up session. I won't have anything else in one piece to take as the 3XV is "winterised" and at the storage unit.
The Spondon probably won't be back from NZ by then either. If it is I'll put the 250 top end back on with modified pistons and see how it goes.
Hi Jools hope all is going well.
I looked at the cruising image gear when i started on my project ,and the price looked too good to be true.
I ended up with Mitaka,I believe the guys in thr UK mainly us these, they have done 1300km so far at 11500rpm no problems ,touch wood.
I am looking to change them and the crank at 3000k, I estimate mine is making 65hp.
Also I told Mark I will publish some details of the project ,so will get on with soon.
Quote from: jools on October 04, 2014, 01:09:10 AM
I heard back from Grant Maguire a few days ago where I have my complete TZR250 F3 ignition being analysed to see if there is any fault - but it appears to be working ok.
The power valves seem to be working as expected too opening around 5500 and fully open by 10,000.
Interesting that he said when shutting off they stay open till revs drop to around 3000 before starting to close. I'm wondering if that is a timing issue - he is not giving it time to respond ? That may account for that hole I'm experiencing - what I really need is a device to show me on the dash what it is doing. Maybe a potentiometer grafted onto the servo motor with some LED's showing its position?
He did question the 0.85 static timing figure and reckons this might be a mis print. He has never come across a figure so retarded and the advance curve he measured will accept a 1.8 static setting without any danger. So I'm going to set this at 1.4 for a start and see what if any improvement there is.
Geez Jools you like doing it the hard way,just put a programmable ignition on and be done with it :D
Preferably a Zeeltronic ;)
Toop is on to it,Mark and I have HPI units at 3mm btdc ,and have had no problems although quite a few others( TZ guys) have.
I got a good head job from CB tuning in the UK , Chris recommends Vertex and JD but not eletrex world or HPI,there are others out there ,but you need a full race total loss system as on a TZ, maybe two curves,one for wet one for dry.
The guy you have looking at your ignition sounds like the guy who has worked on some of the NZ TZ HPI systems ,he should put you on the right track.
Lozza
as you will have realised I'm a stubborn old dinosaur........ ;D
Hi I still have my TZR250F3 I built in 1991 I hope you like it.
Nice 8)
My cylinders have F3 Design.
Going to ride them with my JL exhaust.
keep up to date : www.yamaha-dt-125.blogspot.com
Jools, what did you end up doing with your F3?
Its up for sale Mark,
maybe the F3 kits parts will come off first to turn into a true P6 proddy bike and sell those independently, oh yeah and the new Pirelli Slicks on wider rims will need to go too............
Its next on the list for working on. The 3MA is currently under assembly - I'm just trueing up the rebuilt crank but its being a bit stubborn.
That will be another P6 proddy bike up for sale soon.
I'm also considering letting the 3XV go now that the TZ is up and running.
Having a bit of a clear out as you can see ;D
arf :-[
Bummer Jools.
Oh well. Let me know when you are ready to sell the F3 stuff.
What about the TZ250S fairing?
That is staying on the bike as you had the old one.......... ;)
Doh. That went to Duncan with the TZR P6 Proddy.
This bike is the next to share workshop space with the 3MA
Where did you get the TZ250S fairing and how much did it cost?
BBS Plastics in the UK. I think it was 280 GBP with the seat. The shipping is another matter - I bought mine back as check in luggage :)
Quote from: jools on September 20, 2012, 12:06:15 AM
I'm in the process of getting a F3 2MY ready for the Australian Historic Titles in November.
It has F3 Ignition, crankshaft and pipes. The top end is only blue printed but I think I'll rrun out of time to get it to F3 spec before the races.
Not sure how it will run as it is though. Waiting for Log Book from MA and it will need new slicks.
This is how it arrived - paint jobs is changing:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2FP1011185-1.jpg&hash=2f0c5c9912f536eba603dec31bfd719d43da2730)
Nice tzr!
What seat unit do you have on there?
Sir Al (in Australia) made that seat unit mould by combining a TZ250S seat unit with the original TZR side panels.
Where are you located? Can you add it to your Profile.
Are you closer to Poly26? http://www.poly26.com/carenage-moto-tuning-yamaha-250-tzr-1988-1991_5-115.html (http://www.poly26.com/carenage-moto-tuning-yamaha-250-tzr-1988-1991_5-115.html)
Ah yes that's my bike - I forgot all about it with all the other stuff happening.... ;D ;D
One day I'll get back to it. MBoddy has the fairing now as I bought a TZ250S for it.
Duncan has the fairing with the TZR I sold him.
Pat is selling a 2XT complete if you are interested Mark ?
No thanks Jools. I have enough motorbikes.
Ok
Having finally got the 3MA running reasonably well, now joining the list of bikes that "I don't really want to sell now...." it was time to pay attention to this poor old F3 hoping that a lengthy break would sharpen my focus.
I did recall that I needed to check the squish clearance which turned out to be around 1.35mm so I set about reducing this to around 1.0mm as a starting point.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP4090038_zpsyv0bmraw.jpg&hash=aaf465a4cb894273949d6516121a5eba5a7deac1) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P4090038_zpsyv0bmraw.jpg.html)
This machining wasn't as difficult as I imagined - as usual the setting up was 80% of the time required.
On reassembly one of the water jacket studs sheared off.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP4090039_zpshq5nwtsg.jpg&hash=1ffcc1e8e959cb1acc2f0858dcfee30a69daf7f2) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P4090039_zpshq5nwtsg.jpg.html)
fortunately there was enough of the broken off part to grip and remove. I turned one up from some stainless threaded rod I had.
All re assembled and a measured squish of 1.05mm on both sides. A good starting point. It was at this point that I started to install the PV pulleys. I noticed that there had been a bush installed to remove the slack from the cable. This didn't seem right. I always removed this as an assembly and replaced the same way. On closer inspection I noticed that the cable 1 from the servo went to 2 on the pulley housing. this seemed crossed and the manual confirmed this. So this could have been the problem all along - operating the servo it cycles to the open position and sticking a finger up the exhaust port to adjust would not have identified this problem if it was actually rotating the wrong way to close. Swapping the cables and looking up the port with a torch while the servo cycled confirmed the problem was now solved.
Lets hope so, this was a basic error and in any future assemblies I will make sure that the PV cycles correctly.
Fully assembled the bike started up easily enough but now there were problems with the throttle cables not seating correctly which will be todays job.
Fingers crossed this time.
You are right. The cables have to cross. My tuner warned for this during reassembling the engine. Luckily I sticked a number on the loose cables :-) Good luck tinkering
Yes Eric, never take anything for granted.
I replaced the throttle and cables with an old used TZ350 one that I had used on the Spondon as the one fitted to thye bike was a single pull with a splitter located too close to the carbs causing the shorter cables to have an undesirable bend.
This TZ item used universal cables which I had to shorten the outers by 10mm to get the correct throttle opening & closing.
With these cables installed the engine would consistently start much more easily but not pick up off the throttle and stall. Its almost like there is no fuel.
Not sure why this should be the case, so tonight I'll remove the carbs and give them a clean out.
I had changed the static timing back to 0.84mm as per the F3 manual but this shouldn't have affected it.
The majority of the guys who race 2ma/1kt in the UK are limited to standard carbs/ignition/PV and are edging towards 60 rear wheel horses (well upwards of 55). Will any of you Aussie/Kiwi/French classic racers share your power curve that you've managed with alternate ign/carbs/F3 kit etc?
C'mon make us jealous!
It makes no sense, 60 hp at the rear wheel on which bench and which calibration?
The bench passing my motorcycle does not show much with ignition, power valve and carb original. . . . but by changing the setting of the bench I can get twice carefree ... ;)
It is only to draw your attention to the relativity of this things.
Quote from: iron chef on April 18, 2016, 09:41:10 PM
The majority of the guys who race 2ma/1kt in the UK are limited to standard carbs/ignition/PV and are edging towards 60 rear wheel horses (well upwards of 55). Will any of you Aussie/Kiwi/French classic racers share your power curve that you've managed with alternate ign/carbs/F3 kit etc?
C'mon make us jealous!
As Toop says, but there is no harm posting up stuff for reference and personal benchmarks for development.
My 3MA was dyno's at the track in NZ at 53 HP or so but it was walking away from trick RGV's in a straight line drag.
I haven't put it on the dyno. But I have played around a bit and track tested it to get it how I like it.
In the class I race in the bikes to beat are reverse cylinder TZ250s and Honda RS125s.
My top end power keeps the TZs close and I have broad linear power from 7 to 12 so I am happy with the engine performance and won't be playing with it further.
It gets off the line fast.
What I do need to work on now is further improving corner speed to try to match the RS125s.
I think the F3 fairing will help corner speed over 200kph as the screen gets a vibe at those speeds.
And for general corner speed I am working on reducing fork stiction by fitting some NOS fork tubes as all the used ones I have are not absolutely perfectly straight and shimming the front wheel spacers.
Quote from: mboddy on April 19, 2016, 01:31:06 AM
...... I am working on reducing fork stiction ......
I have seen some production factory bikes running without dust seals (just oil) to try to achieve this). YMMV.
Cheers guys, I'm aware that max power is relative in the dyno.
I'm intrigued to see what difference that carbs ign etc make to the shape of the full load curve and the peak.
I know that reverse TZs make at least 15 more than my tzr, my 4DP makes 23 more on the same dyno!
If you're hanging on to TZs, you must understand my curiosity ;)
Finally Thrown some paint at the frong guard & fairing.
At some point I'll do something to the tank & seat. (those white dots are water droplets BTW)
The front wheel came up well. All the old paint was removed using Acrylic thinners, stiff brush & rags.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP5070048_zps2d6wzr4r.jpg&hash=32c77bf1c662d03594a76f3d79945528344d4743) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P5070048_zps2d6wzr4r.jpg.html)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FJools58%2FTZR250%2520F3%2FP5070046_zps3tmdpxbj.jpg&hash=21ca1749162f8e2b4a23152a200a8d4591e91df2) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Jools58/media/TZR250%20F3/P5070046_zps3tmdpxbj.jpg.html)
Looks good Jools.
Nice, i like it !
I like it too Jools. Is that your design ? 8)
Thanks guys
Peter....
No not my design, its copied from the TZ250's of the old Sonauto Yamaha outfit back in the day, not 100% as they have the number board on the fairing.
I had the paint & decals left over from my Sarron replica Gauloise TZ750.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sarron+tz+250&biw=1464&bih=951&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP_eC3vMvMAhWMIJoKHaYJBZwQsAQIGg&dpr=0.95
Like the Bike :)
Its up for sale soon......................but located in Oz 8)
I need to do a track day to finish off the set up....................then I probably won't want to sell it ;D
Don't sell it Jools!
I am rebuilding mine and we live close to each other, lets go for a ride and grab a coffee. Pose and all sorts of cool things..
Agree ;D
Quote from: saltysealion on May 17, 2016, 07:48:13 AM
Don't sell it Jools!
I am rebuilding mine and we live close to each other, lets go for a ride and grab a coffee. Pose and all sorts of cool things..
That would be nice if it wasn't a Period 6 race bike on slicks.......... and it was registered......................... ;D
Yes, don't sell it Jools! That could be a nice eye-catching road bike. Is there any reason all the necessary road bits couldn't be refitted?
I'm also hoping you'll be making your "other" TZ750 into a road bike with another period race-replica paint scheme 8) .
Regards,
James
James
It was always a race bike in Oz - a Jap import I believe without any compliance plate.
To equip it for road use would be impractical and costly....................but I believe it may be possible to register it if I were that way inclined.
Quote from: jools on May 21, 2016, 02:16:34 PM
It was always a race bike in Oz - a Jap import I believe without any compliance plate.
To equip it for road use would be impractical and costly....................but I believe it may be possible to register it if I were that way inclined.
Hmm, that's too bad Jools :( - it certainly would be costly if you didn't have all or most of the road gear already. I wonder how difficult it would be to have the bike retrospectively approved - pre-1989 JDM bikes are imported easily enough and don't need compliance plates, so it would hopefully be as easy as getting a compliance report and proving ownership.
Regards,
James
No daylight MOT's in Oz I fear ???
Hehe, no daylight mot's here in oz unfortunately :( & if that bike never had an import approval, then the only way to register it would be to grab a local frame with compliance & do a frame swap .
Although it would be eligible for historic rego. :)
Any updates on a F3 seat?
My build is coming along and I'd really like this seat!
Quote from: Neal on September 19, 2012, 02:33:43 PM
What model 3xv 3ma or 1kt ?
Tzr250 F111 original with full kit.
I am back to setting up the 2XT F3 race bike.
The 40mm YPVS radiator from China is now selling in Aus for $AU89 delivered. Bargain!
Mine is back from having a filler spout added and the T removed.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2F40mmradiator.jpg&hash=1dc56bd0a9ae19ede252adc806e646002863f59e)
Hi, my F3 is not far off the TZ 350s ,i guess 65 hp in there some where.
This is with all the mods that Mark has minus the lectrons .
Just a small update.
I switched over to one of the Chinese TZR250 radiators but it did not provide enough cooling.
So I went back to the modified 40mm YPVS radiator.
Was that at Wakefield Park recently Mark?
No. I ran the TDR with 2XT engine at Wakefield last weekend. 2nd in P6 500cc 1 Hour (five P6 500cc teams).
Planning on taking the TZR and TZ350F to 2019 IFoS.
Update: I was happy to take the class win at the Festival of Speed in the P6 250 GP class on the TZR and TDR.
2 years later,,, is anyone building a F3 machine? :)
I continue to develop mine. Was hoping to give it a good race at the 2020 Festival of Speed but it was cancelled due to the virus.
Thanks to Penrite and MotoGarage for their continuing support.
Also thanks to Dan at Gecko Racing for his assistance http://www.geckomotorcycles.co.uk (http://www.geckomotorcycles.co.uk)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FMarkGecko.jpg&hash=d55ccb9754605b7a510e618d1f94d8f97ca01ae1)
The ARD racing fairing has now been replaced by a F3 fairing from Seppo at Shop97 in Finland.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FMarkTZR250F3PCRARd1Wakefield.jpg&hash=669e033c55929bea15fd567377022ad01ca02911)
The F3 fairing let me get lower onto the tank but I needed to get the foot pegs even further back
The SES rearsets that I got for this purpose got my feet where they needed to be
but my pipes are tucked up a bit higher than the rear sets were designed for
and so I made some modifications which also let me keep a horizontally mounted Brembo master cylinder.
Also I used a SES TZ250 4DP brake lever.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FSES_TZR_brake_lever.jpg&hash=55f3681900ffb80ec934763667f316ed02595150)
I had to make my own gear lever to clear the pipe too.
Here is my template over the half completed gear lever over the SES gear lever.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FSES_TZR_gear_lever.jpg&hash=12c8a32a4676c8c7efe9305e2ea44e35b67fc442)
And here it is fitted on the bike.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FTZR_SES_Mark_gear.jpg&hash=30119321a4cc222b501ee0148ce5a3515cb97bfc)
The Scitsu temp gauge packed it in just like on two of my other bikes and so I have gone back to VDO.
Finally fitted the F3 kit tacho.
The big improvement has been the Andreani fork cartridges from Omnia Racing. They set them up for my weight.
I fitted them along with NOS fork tubes and used Penrite 5wt fork oil at their suggested default level.
They replace the damper rods and springs and require the bushs being removed from the fork tube in a lathe.
Raced it at PCRA Rd1 at Wakefield Park earlier this year and took 2nd in class.
They were a big improvement just using the default settings and I didn't find anything wrong with them and
so I will leave them at those settings until I notice something that needs improving with them.
Most definitely worth every penny!
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FTZRtacho.jpg&hash=5749c08ba4b6edfde1271581da2d431c865588e7)
Same here, this year is reserved for old projects that are still pending ...
So far I have one engine built up. It is a 2XT motor, full FIII race kit, straight cut primary gears, gas flowed cases, ported cylinders and re-profiled heads. Hope to build up the rest of the bike over the coming months. Fingers crossed it should be a fast one.
Hi Mark,
Can you post more detail on fork cartridges from Omnia Racing ?
Olivier.
Adjustable from fork caps for spring preload and compression damping left cap and rebound damping right cap.
https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-misano-adjustable-hydraulic-cartridge-for-showa-for-yamaha-tzr250-19851988-p-38012.html (https://www.omniaracing.net/en/andreani-misano-adjustable-hydraulic-cartridge-for-showa-for-yamaha-tzr250-19851988-p-38012.html)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrapevine.com.au%2F%7Egstephan%2Fmboddy%2FAndreani_misano_fork_cartridge_omniaracing.jpg&hash=2832afe9fd4f4d498f647a4db68ca832a48df82d)
Thanks Mark.
quite a good amount of cash but front end is now up to date and legal to your racing rules in class ;)
Wow, thanks for posting some updates guys.
I am back working on my TZR and this is really motivating :)
There is one positive from this damn virus at least - bikes are getting worked on
Only problem with that now is some postal services are affected - Japan not doing EMS at the moment so all shipments are Surface.
Hi guys, I had my std springs measured,0.43 kg,so, tried some 0.63s.
Some improvement but still diving too much.
Added one 0.83 and 0.63 to get 0.73 total , and the result was very good , lost a little travel , but very stable.
I am 70 kg, 30 wt Belray oil , down 95mm, springs $180 NZ each Adriani agent KSS
.
Quote from: ypm25 on September 19, 2012, 10:08:13 AM
So it seems everyone has intentions of building one but I'v never seen one.
Anyone got one or building one?
My bike was one of the many that a want to be racer started the work on but gave up
In reality it was a bin.
with no plastics,
no lights,
plenty of oil and petrol leaks,
a rattling crank,
And a none starter,
But worth the £400
It's now the best bike I've had
Rescued from the track and a none mechanic.
A story with a happy end