I have two 3ma1's for on the road, it would be nice to change one off them into something more.
Otherwise there would hardly be any difference in driving them.
I decide to upgrade the Marlboro bike into something a bid more.
(small winter project) ::)
And tada the first step is set, and already finished.
Fitted a FZR400RR rear wheel into the 3ma. (160/60-17)
I needed to change the spacers a bid and the sprocket carrier. But otherwise it was a strait swap.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Ffzr400achterwielin3m.jpg&hash=62f3cb979e50d52721d031280f8f0c821b1060c1)
It gives the bike a bid more body. 8)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Ffzr400achterwielin3ma.jpg&hash=139eb265f10d7e8f12b22614638b0a5325470fea)
Currently working on the frond end. ;)
What a hobby we have
Cheers guys
Hi Louis;
The original rim is 18" if I am not mistaken. I struggled to find a rear tire for my track bike because of the rim size. Do you have the R6 rear shock fitted on this bike the rear shock is not stock.
Edd
Hi Louis, did you take the rear wheel of your running FZR400RR ;D ;D ;D
You should post the modification on spacer for others...
Keep on your winter projects... and keep us posted ;)
Update:
The front end is ready now, not spectacular but it gives a nice look
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2F3mamarlboroready.jpg&hash=a2ae2fd50ab0fcef0fbe704fc1827171f9e31abc)
Have fitted a original 3MA3 fork, witch was in very good shape. (New tire, brake pads and (rvs) brake lines)
So this will be the chassis setup for 2013. 8)
Also working on my last testing dyno possibility.
Instead of using resistors to get a fixed ignition curve. (the 1/8 curve)
I'm busy to modify a stock tps censor so it can be mounted on the right handlebar.
With the possibility to switch manually between the curves.
(that will make it easier to test it on the dyno)
QuoteYou should post the modification on spacer for others...
I will ;), when I be doing the next fzr400 rear wheel (that already lying here)
Will make pictures and write down dimensions.
QuoteThe original rim is 18" if I am not mistaken. I struggled to find a rear tire for my track bike because of the rim size. Do you have the R6 rear shock fitted on this bike the rear shock is not stock
The stock 3ma wheel is indeed 18 inch and 4.0 wide (140/60-18)
The FZR400RR wheel is 17 inch and 4.5 wide (160/60-17)
With the fzr400rr wheel (size) you will find it easier to find good tires.
Yes on this bike I use the R6 shock
Cheers Guys.
What a hobby we have ;D
Looks great Louis!!
Sweet Louis
I think you must sell me your spare fZr wheel
Small update:
Its not ready jet, but I'm almost there ::)
I change the original tps sensor a bid.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Ftpssensordraai.jpg&hash=0675f979b8488da096934583efb8fbd606a888fd)
Its not a mechanical master piece, but it will do the job.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Ftpssensorschuin.jpg&hash=aaee9dd972b774a655d115c9f2e444a684d5380e)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Ftpssensorinhouder.jpg&hash=eb28fa1028e235362ec6f56368106447f310444a)
Its not that difficult to understand my idea:
-Will measure the values from the original tps sensor mounted on the carbs.
-Those values will be set/marked on my little setup.
-Can change the different curves by turning the wheel that is fitted on the tps sensor.
Hopefully it will do the job, will be interesting to see/feel what the 1/8 ignition curve will do
Great stuff, Louis! Let us know how you get on with this, won't you?
QuoteLouis! Let us know how you get on with this, won't you?
Hello Warwick,
Yes, I will certainly let you guys know how it goes ;D.
I know I'm not that active on the forum that I use to be, But still have all my plans and idea's that I'll be working out. (one day)
Let just say, this period in the year is not my best period :-[
I have the TPS holder ready.
Have measured the values from the original mounted tsp sensor on the carbs (still mounted)
Those values I have marked on my new TPS holder.
Its not mounted on the handle bar as planned (became a bid difficult with the fairing).
Its now mounted just between radiator and break pot. easy to controle
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2FTPShoudermont_zps0e3bd89e.jpg&hash=e97db4d1171d3504363f960704a7f52bc725c34b)
As you can see I can choose now, witch curve I'll be driving.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fcdicurves3ma-00_zpsd12799c6.jpg&hash=ebf07aaf7e23b9bea61dad270466be747e2c18c7)
Think it would be interesting to see if there is a differences in HP output on the dyno, When selecting the different curves.
Great stuff, Louis. It will be really interesting to test the effect of the TPS in different positions on the dyno 8).
When measuring the TPS signal on the 3XV I noticed that each output changed gradually when operating the TPS, so giving a very gradual change of resistance in each wire. Assuming there are 3 or 4 main fixed ignition curves pre-programmed into the stock CDi as that diagram suggests, have you any idea at which outputs these switch, or are you just basing the fixed output points on your new adjuster switch on the outputs with the throttle at 1/4' 1/2 etc. throttle position? I guess that as you have free adjustment on your new gizmo though, it would be easy to vary the position ( and so the outputs) when testing though of course.
Looks like a really interesting experiment to me in any case. Good luck! 8).
The blue line will make the best peak HP if just programmed in, advance has no effect on output off the pipe, what they do affect is throttle response, and help the engine get onto the pipe faster.Looks consistent with all the 3D curve I have used mainly 33-66% throttle as 1-2deg less on pipe than 0-33 or 66-100%
Would love to be able to use a $25 3 axis accelerometer for lean angle instead of throttle position
Quotehave you any idea at which outputs these switch, or are you just basing the fixed output points on your new adjuster switch on the outputs with the throttle at 1/4' 1/2 etc. throttle position
Hello Warwick,
No I don't know the values where the curves are swishing from each other :-[.
What I did is measured the resistance when throttle is fully open and closed. (0/100%)
Those (0/100%) values I have marked on my tps holder (measured with a multimeter), the rest (1/2, 1/4, 1/8) i have set out the scale.
I will try all marks, most interesting will be the difference between the 0-1/8 curve and the 1/2-1/1.
Will let you know how it goes.
Cheers
Lozza,
QuoteThe blue line will make the best peak HP if just programmed in
Any ideas on how much it might gain.
I got 57HP with the Red curve. 58HP With two degrees pickup change.
Should be nice if i could gain 2HP more so it will bring 60HP.
Witch is very nice fore a relative stock engine.
- These Stock pipes peek at +/-10000rpm,
- The head volume will be close to +11cc (Du to the two times clean up off the head)
- Squish is around 0.9 a 1mm
- Running 95 pump fuel
So my theory would be it can handle a bid more than the 14 degrees it is running now.
It seems to have no problem with 16 degrees (two degrees pickup move)
The question will be, can she handle the 20 degrees at that point?
Will see what it does,
Try 17,18 and 19 before you try 20deg ;D
QuoteTry 17,18 and 19 before you try 20deg
That would be a problem, as this is not a free programmable ignition. ;D
If the Curves are correct (shown in the diagram)
Its the blue curve or the red curve, nothing in between.
Can you move the pick ups or stator?
Buy this and you can measure a 1 deg change
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EQUUS-INNOVA-Pro-Digital-Timing-Light-DIS-5568-/271061446515?hash=item3f1c856f73&item=271061446515&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr
QuoteCan you move the pick ups or stator?
Yes of course I can move the pickup (have already don that with a two degrees pickup move)
It will be possible to make the pickup 4 degrees adjustable. but then i'll be going the same route that i did
A couple off years back even more (with a complete pickup placed 180 degrees further)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftzr250.webs.com%2FSDC10573.JPG&hash=9559896da464f777c484e8349fbfb14ef2198765)
Perhaps I should work this idea out better. As it worked.
I could switch between the pickups with a swish that I connected at the same pickup wire color
The idea of unhooking the TPS sensor is to try the well discussed 1/8 curve (on Japanese sites)
Think when the wetter clears up I will make a small test drive, see if there is a noticeable different with no strange noises coming out of the engine. ::)
Louis did you used the 3ma sprocket carrier or FZR400rr?
Hey,
I used the 3MA sprocket caccier,
But you need to be modified it. To allow it, to go deeper inside the rear wheel rubbers.
All work can be done on a lath
(when i start my new project bike, I'll make some detail pictures and measurement)
Cheers
Quote from: Louis on February 09, 2013, 04:30:20 PM
Hey,
I used the 3MA sprocket caccier,
But you need to be modified it. To allow it, to go deeper inside the rear wheel rubbers.
All work can be done on a lath
(when i start my new project bike, I'll make some detail pictures and measurement)
Cheers
Ja Louis. I'm also waiting for your post on this. Dan sent wheel last week. So will be looking to do this soon.
Ok, ill try to speed thinks up. ;D
On many requests
;D
Here you have a manual how to fit a fzr400rr (4,5x17) wheel into a 3ma swingarm.
There will be more possibilities, but this is how I have done it.
Working the sprocket carrier:
Startingpoint:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fstart_zps6dd3e333.jpg&hash=cc7ac6a39e852dea5c8089faebc927306a6554c9)
Take 3mm from the top
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Ftopverw_zps26ec25f9.jpg&hash=5b1f0897b7cdaf8c04ef8ee6c7591590affc0a8d)
Make the side 3mm deeper (take the outside diameter as reverence, you can take 0.2mm off to have a clean service)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fzijver_zps78f57ede.jpg&hash=56234ed59c8b58fd1925fbc1f6de7d65098b2278)
Make the innerside 3mm deeper (take the inside hole diameter as reverence, you can take out 0.2mm to cean the service)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Finnerside_zps81eb2257.jpg&hash=0b74aa5805c057151ded6daf5fd0beb069904255)
Make 45 degrees seeker points at the tops (this will help you mount it easier
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fzoekrand_zps350580e0.jpg&hash=a51ebb85752711b0e496404b64e6f35f5f5d20c0)
Make a 3,5 mm spacer (20 X 40 X 3,5 MM)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fspacer_zps87b3fb40.jpg&hash=3ea8d0bc31fa8adf01e1c8ef65c8b67fa2603202)
Take 3mm off the sprocket spacer:
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fafstbus_zpscd38709c.jpg&hash=664d4ad155ed3cb6d1c6c04772acab25d3424b99)
Cut all rubbers loss, and grind a way the notches (top and botom) as they are 1,5mm high (given you the 3mm back)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fruberverw_zps72879305.jpg&hash=23b13ca7994bb0110bc503cd6459c76d75cb81ae)
Place them in the fzr wheel (loose of course) and if necessary grind some of the notches at the height of the rubbers
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Frubermont_zpsd2a339bd.jpg&hash=dd89486dc41955fcbabd4afc5ae2fb84d2caa9bc)
Mount the Sprocket carrier (You can use some silicone on the rubbers to make it glide easier)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fhoudermont_zps4cfb63c0.jpg&hash=02e212fe26133b54a28600cd74c19c46ad6a9584)
Mount the whole wheel in the 3ma swingarm
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fmontwielhouder_zps266bc6e7.jpg&hash=bb69fb917e05eaa21872e61a15db929f50866944)
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fspacermont_zpsd17e27ea.jpg&hash=0474467775a7402ed4e1e00545cf2bf0d2b77f1c)
And whola its ready.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fkaar_zps4ff46bdd.jpg&hash=3057ec25f61b0cdd0cf223957b07ecc82da344d2)
Hope this will help you guys.
Cheers
Nicely done. :) Is there any benfits too fitting the 17" wheel other than more choice on available rubber?
QuoteNicely done. Is there any benfits too fitting the 17" wheel other than more choice on available rubber?
Thanks, its mostly done for the better tires choice's
Perhaps it handles better with a 17 inch wheel, but that is a guess from me O:-) as I doubt if my rider style is that good to notice the difference ;D
Cheers
Thanks a million Louis.
We have tyre problems here for anything that is not 17" and saying that even 160/60-17 can be hard to find.
I will commission an engineering shop (all i have to do is print your post) to do this work, I do not own a lathe.
Thanks again Louis. You're a star.
Took my hub and your printed instructions into the engineering shop and he was so impressed with the clear instructions. Well done Louis.
Hello Paul,
Thanks for the feed back. Hope your engineer will get it done :).
If for some reason he is getting stuck. He can check his modifications in the end by removing the rubbers outside the wheel and place the sprocket carrier, he should now be able to feel free movement of the sprocket carrier (not completely turning it, it will hit a brich lets say 15 degrees)
So in short terms if al 3mm is removed the sprocket carrier should be turning 15 degrees without hitting/scratching anything (this without rubbers) is it scratches something grind it away until its free.
Cheers
Well, today I had my first ride off the year with the 3MA 8).
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz376%2Ftzr250-3ma%2FTZR250%2520Marlboro%2Fmarlboro2013_zps9882dc08.jpg&hash=393b6b76772c90dd8bef9cf31df80d75530891af)
Now I could test my TPS by hand to feel if I can notice something.
Can't feel any changing in 1/1 or 1/2 or 1/4 position.
But you feel a difference in the 1/8 position :o, its more powerful in the mid range.
I certainly will test this on a dyno.
Last thing I changed at the bike is fitting a FZR400RR front wheel to mach the FZR400RR rear wheel.
Its one off a few mods where you don't need to change any thing, its a straight swap. Going from a 3.0 to a 3.5 front wheel with a new 120/60/17 tire on :).
When I get the time, she will go on the dyno to see what she is doing
Cheers guys
Enjoy the weather
thanks for that
ill check it out
bike looks sweet