Has anyone got an alternative to having some made? They are now discontinued from Yamaha and I desperately need some
Luke
Have some made, that's what I did.
Alternatively if you are looking for the bushes for the early fork type linkage then from what I discovered you are looking for something called metalastic bush. In theory just a case of finding a supplier who can match the sizes. Trouble is I never found anyone local, the internet might be more useful, but as I said at the start I just had some made.
I know that metalastic bush is still produced and used, the after-market swingarm I have for my MSX has them in (they will be replaced with needle roller bearings though). That said I never really considered it at the time but I suppose it could be possible to convert to normal roller bearings, not sure of the effect that might have.
The only other suggestion I would have is that I think the later type of linkage used normal bearings so you could convert. But check their availability first.
in general, a manufacturer applying known components, if possible, to keep costs down. Or use the same spare parts in several places in other contexts.
Aftermarket MX is ernormt because you replace just these components several times a year, so I would explore mx world'm sure you can find something useful - as example here:
http://www.allballsracing.com/media/productshowcase/AllBallsNeedlebearingssizechart.pdf (http://www.allballsracing.com/media/productshowcase/AllBallsNeedlebearingssizechart.pdf)
Which bushes do you need? These are #24 on the parts list http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YAMAHA-TZR250-BUCHSE-90386-18149-2St-2Pc-BUSH-SPECL-NYLON-Rear-SwingArm-/221840287622?hash=item33a6b62786
EBay seller Miyabee had the complete 1KT linkage for sale a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't expensive, and as far as I know didn't sell. Might be worth asking http://www.ebay.ca/usr/miyabeepluscoltd-jp
For that price of the NOS your not far off what I paid a local engineering firm to produce me the whole set!
Are they hardened or did u have them made hardened or just as steel
I honestly can't remember. The only details I still have are in my bikes build thread (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=513.msg9962#msg9962).
Outher Bushing could be made in bronze (same material ad in the powervalve bushings)
inner tube stainless steel.
Would be a resonable choice ;)
ps:
the cause of the damage to the existing is usually lack of lubrication - a consideration could be to mount grease nipples on the joints then your bushings will last forever if you use the grease nipples regularly. (picture from my TDR)
Looked this over last night doesnt the existing nipple work?
yes - if used :)
Is it just sufficient to drill and tap (cleaning up the inside face of swarf) for the nipple or do you need a small channel for the grease to distribute ?
you can do at channel, but I just pump grease in until new fresh grease come out i both sides.
I just dug this topic up as my suspension bushes are, like everyone elses I guess, no longer in the first flush of youth. So, I drifted them out, and measured them up:
Inside diameter: 18mm
Outside diameter: 24mm
Length: 18mm
Looking around, I found this: http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/?catid=1158&att1=18mm&att2=24mm&att3=
I think there's two options: Use the 30mm ones and machine them down to 20mm and run them without the oil seals, or use the 16mm ones. As I don't have access to a lathe at the mo I'll probably go with option 2. Although I suppose I could attempt to shorten them with the angle grinder. What's the worst that could happen? ;)
I'll report back on how it works. Could save people a few quid to use comercially available stuff rather than getting bushes machined specifically or paying through the nose for NOS bushes from eBay. Which are made of plastic and will wear out anyway.
For what it's worth, I don't think I'll be reusing the oil seals either:
Blimey. That was quick. Ordered these yesterday afternoon: http://www.getyourbearings.co.uk/plain-oilite/am182418.html
£2.50 each, plus a couple of quid postage. Turned up today. Will need to get some heat into the relay arm to fit the bushes, but the collars are a lovely slip fit in there. More pictures to come as and when it's all done. In the end I went for the 18mm bushes rather than turning down the 30mm ones:
Last post on the subject - fitted the new bushes (just needed a bit of heat in the arm and a squeeze in a vice), bolted it all back together, and the play that I had in my rear suspension is now gone.
Happy with that.
Quote from: nronketti on April 04, 2016, 03:04:59 PM
Last post on the subject - fitted the new bushes (just needed a bit of heat in the arm and a squeeze in a vice), bolted it all back together, and the play that I had in my rear suspension is now gone.
Happy with that.
Have you a photo of the new bushes fitted in the relay arm please?
Quote from: Malc on April 04, 2016, 05:44:02 PM
Have you a photo of the new bushes fitted in the relay arm please?
Yup:
Thanks Neil :)
Hi Neil,
I too went down the route of using the 18mmx24mmx18mm oilite bushes. Before pressing them into the relay arm, the collars are a nice "slip fit" inside the bush.
However, once the bushes are pressed into the relay arm, the collars don't slip in by hand anymore. I'm sure they'd press in with very little effort, but not sure if they'd end up binding.
So, just before I do that, I thought I'd check with you...
Did you also find this to be the case?
Quote from: nikster on June 12, 2016, 08:15:10 PM
I too went down the route of using the 18mmx24mmx18mm oilite bushes. Before pressing them into the relay arm, the collars are a nice "slip fit" inside the bush.
However, once the bushes are pressed into the relay arm, the collars don't slip in by hand anymore. I'm sure they'd press in with very little effort, but not sure if they'd end up binding.
So, just before I do that, I thought I'd check with you...
Did you also find this to be the case?
Yup, but my collars were pretty manky anyway, so I just gave them a rub with some emery paper until they slipped nicely in. I did (briefly) think about getting some new ones, but I'm way too tight for that! I know it all sounds like a bit of a horrific bodge, but as long as I remember to slip them out and regrease them every year or so, I reckon it'll be OK. It's certainly 100 times better than it was before with the worn-out plastic bushes.
Thanks for that.
My collars are still in decent condition, so might just have some stainless ones machined to fractionally smaller diameter and keep my others spare.
I just tore my linkage apart last night. I am going to source and put together a complete rebuild kit for the early 1kt style linkage. Some parts will need to made custom. If anybody else wants in let me know. Also I would like to note that grease should not be used on oilite bushes. I read up on some machinists forum about them and the correct maintenance treatment is to heat them and soak in oil. But generally they are plug and play. I will figure out all the details on this stuff and post my findings.
With a little bit of searching I found that some of the items are available like the seals and needle bearings. I will probably order these parts asap and post where I find them. The bushes are available by oilite and a few other companies. The collars are the part that might need to be made.
I will likely get a few extras made anyway because I am sure the cost will not be much more. Probably pay mostly for set up. But as I said if anybody else would like to rebuild their linkage LMK.
k
Here is the shopping list. I am updating this list as I go. Please verify numbers and measurements before ordering anything. It's not yet complete.
Parts Diagram http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/1KT/1KT_2AW_parts_catalogue_jp.pdf
(#) = Parts diagram ref. number.
YAM = Available from Yamaha parts supply
-> # = New part Number
TZR250 BUSHES
(2) 93315-31843 X2 YAM
9331721717 BEARING, CYLINDRICAL
(14) 90387-103N9
COLLAR - ID 10mm, OD 20mm, L 31mm
(15) 90386-20130 - Steel-Backed PTFE Lined Sleeve Bearings http://www.asbbearings.com part# ZU MB2025ZU
BUSH NYLON
ID 20mm, OD 23mm, L 25mm
(16) 1KT-22128-00 X2
THRUST COVER
(19) 90387-123N6 X2
COLLAR - ID 12mm, OD 18mm, L 21.5mm
(20) 23X-22129-00 X2 YAM -> 55K-22129-00-00
THRUST COVER
(21) 93109-18020 X4 YAM
OIL SEAL
(24) 90386-18149 X2
BUSH - ID 18mm, OD 24mm, L 16mm
(26) 90387-103N4
COLLAR - ID 10mm, OD 18mm, L 71mm
As stated earlier in this thread, ref#20 thrust cover should work fine in the #16 position. The only difference is the #20 has a larger centre hole. I don't see it being a problem. Also my #15 Bush is not nylon it is metal and has a seam. I am reluctant to remove it incase I damage it. Mine seams to be in good shape. If a person was to need to replace it I measured it roughly at ID 20mm, OD 23mm, L 25mm. If you search you can find bushes that match those dimensions but please verify them first.
Looking at the possibility of using needle bearings I found these for #24
http://www.vxb.com/HK1816-Needle-Bearing-18x24x16-p/kit8630.htm
And these could be place side by side for #15 if a new collar was made at OD 17mm. I am not sure if that is good from an engineering perspective but it would work.
http://www.vxb.com/HK1712-Shell-Type-Needle-Roller-Bearings-17x23x12-p/hk1712.htm
So I have ordered everything that can be. I am going to try to use the above mentioned needle bearings.
I need collars #19 and #26
I am going to a local machine shop this week to see what they can do for me.
I believe that the #15 bearing used in my linkage is what is called a Dry Bearing or Plain Bearing. It is steel and has some coating on it. I am not going to mess around with changing this as the collar is in good shape, has a tight fit and moves freely. But this information might get somebody moving in the right direction in the future.
Edit The correct ones should be "Steel-Backed PTFE Lined Sleeve Bearings" I believe.
Found here http://www.asbbearings.com part# ZU MB2025ZU
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asbbearings.com%2Fimg%2FBearing_Photos%2FSteel_Backed_PTFE_bushings-lg.jpg&hash=d6dcabaf0902d4ae617f195adb2ad5f2e40cf3c7)
It looks like these.
For the collars to work with needle bearings they need to be hardened and ground. That would make it easier to use the Oilite bearings for the #19 collar but the #26 collar goes inside needle bearings. Mine is pitted and you can actually see the roller marks in it so it will need to be replaced. With a little further research I found that you can buy inner rings for needle bearings.
Part# IRT1519 is ID15mm, OD18mm, L19.5 and should work with #19 collar if we adjust the OD to 15mm.
Part# IRT1525 is ID15mm, OD18mm, L25.5 and could be fitted the #26 collar with some machining.
I will bring this plan to my machinist and see what he thinks.
I talked to the machinist today and he said to order the inner rings because the the process of hardening isn't worth it for a couple pieces. So I will order those up today and bring it all to him when everything arrives.
Just wondering whether hard chroming of the original pins would be a possibility - similar to getting fork stanchions re-chromed ??
There is only the one collar that needs to be hardened unless you replace the other bushings with needle bearings like I am. I have inquired with a Motorcycle specific machine shop that makes discontinued parts for my KDX. I am asking if they will make and carry the missing pieces once we figure out the best plan. No response yet but they seam like the type of guys that would be into it. If they get on board we will just need to send them a stock set-up and they will figure out the best solution. Thats what they did with the KDX200 power valves. A few years of KDX are notoriously hard on PV's and they are discontinued so these guys made some sets out of steel instead of aluminum and sell them online. I am hoping they are interested. I need to get mine figured out sooner than later but if somebody has a linkage collecting dust that they could donate to science, it will be returned and maybe with the new pieces installed with any luck.
Great news!
I heard back from the Brock at BDK and here is a few quotes from his response.
"Ah yes this will be the bushes for that Y and U-shaped linkages?"
"Anyway for sure we're happy to give this a go if you wish and if it is successful then yes we can log this as an 'upgrade/replacement' kit for those that need it, anything to keep the machines out there and causing trouble J"
"To do this effectively though we'd ideally need all the linked components so that we can check fit and machine correctly unless of course you are intending to provide the dimensions, bearing number etc? "
I will reply to his email and put together a plan but in the mean time if we can scrape together a linkage to send that would be awesome if not I will figure out how to brace my bike as a roller and send mine.
So we don't get things crossed on the project I would ask that people refrain from contacting BDK on the subject until they are ready to take orders. Post your questions or concerns here and I will field them if needed.
Got a spare linkage from a 1KT on my desk next to me right now. Where should I send it?
Thats great! I will sort out a few more details and PM you the address...
Question?
My collar and bush in the #14/15 position (the single bush that mounts to the frame) were in seemingly good shape. Did anybody find this to be otherwise? The other collars were in very rough shape but this one seamed OK.
I managed to get my linkage figured out with a few parts ordered and some machine work. BDK stopped replying so maybe they are just busy or decided it wasn't going to be a profitable project to get involved in which may have been correct. I need to upload the pictures and write up the description of what I did so maybe I will get to that this weekend. But in short I had new collars milled to accept a hardened inner race for needle bearings. I hope to get some time soon to post it all up.