I always said I wanted a proper race bike but when I had money there were none around or when they when around I didnt have any money. Anyway one popped up a few weeks ago and I grabbed it and as luck would have it i was booked in for a track day for today also so it was perfect timing. This is what I got
Bike with a fresh motor 94 model, the tune is supposed to be to the spec Wayne Rainey ran his carts at. The motor has done one race and 5 laps. It has a heap or spares gearbox, sprockets, fairings, jets, top end etc.
I took it to Eastern Creek today for a shake down having not even had the time to start it up since I got it last Saturday afternoon. I had to iron out a few setting issues like the choke adjusted up so it stayed on but the biggest problem was getting it to stay in the power. I swopped to a smaller front sprocket and rode harder and it was ok but I was running out of puff before the end of the straight.
The thing is unreal to ride, it pulls that hard it should be illegal it stops and goes where you point it. Not once did I think I might bin it in a corner but on exit you need to be alert as it has so much go and comes in so hard it has major highside potential. I need to sort out the carbs a bit more but by the end of the day I had tamed it a bit.
This thing is so fast it was keeping 1000cc bikes honest down the straight, now I just need to find a supply of Avgas to keep it happy. 8)
Well that's you sorted then Pat!
Brilliant stuff
Ahh man what have I done. :'(
I need to look into a shorter first and second gear I think. I got a spare gearbox with the bike but don't know if its taller or shorter than the one in the bike.
Is that John Hewitt's old bike?
The very one, I can't believe at 65 or what ever age he is he was riding it. I hope I am still on board at that age.
If anyone is interested the bike weighs 105kgs without fuel so with me on board its under 180
105kgs without fuel :o WOW that's light.
I wonder how close to that I can get with my 3xv hmmmmmm.
Cheers,
Dan
Quote from: epa police on November 28, 2012, 06:46:40 AM
The very one, I can't believe at 65 or what ever age he is he was riding it. I hope I am still on board at that age.
If anyone is interested the bike weighs 105kgs without fuel so with me on board its under 180
His birth certificate is chiseled into sandstone ;D
Very nice. I have now had to add another "must do" to my list of things to do. I blame Paul personally ;D.
I was copping a bit of stick from the diesel guys in the pits because I was working on the bike all day and had the fairings off and on about 20 times. I tried to explain it to them but it fell on deaf ears.
I made a roller starter a few days before and it was a major benefit when just trying things in the pits. I wont be able to look at the bike again until Sunday with work etc >:(
They don't work on their bikes because 90% of diesel bikers don't know how to.
The only tool they need is a cell phone.
They are tools! :D
One of them was even less impressed when I came past into the hairpin on the power while he was on the brakes ;D Apparently he crashed the on same lap then went home
Same thing at Roy Hesketh, young lad put his spanking new CBR600 into the bushes, said his brakes failed ::). Me thinks he was chasing Neal and got caught out coming into that corner.......
Here is a picture of the crank spares I got. There are two cranks in there one failed as can be seen in the other picture so be bought two used cranks to make a good one. With some new bearing we should get another one out of it. New seals were supplied with the bike also.
Obviously when the crank went it damaged the top end also on one side. The head has some pitting but can be cleaned up and the barrel has a nick on one port so I might have to seek some professional advice on that one. Its so small I cant even take a picture of it but I would be concered about a ring getting snagged. Hopefully I can just smooth it out and get a replate.
yep i have one like the second picture it seems to happen in this engine often
Quote from: Crank on November 29, 2012, 08:27:13 AM
Same thing at Roy Hesketh, young lad put his spanking new CBR600 into the bushes, said his brakes failed ::). Me thinks he was chasing Neal and got caught out coming into that corner.......
that made me laugh scott
yes, he was clearly inexperienced, i would also crash into the bushes if i tried to sit on neals arse, but i will get there. a few less bunny chows!!
Quote from: rusell on November 30, 2012, 04:11:48 PM
yep i have one like the second picture it seems to happen in this engine often
oh ohhh
don't say things like that
i'm still holding private worshipping services in my garage!!!! :-X
Had the TZ out again today and now that I am getting used to it its even better. It was very hot around 35C and in the afternoon the track started to get pretty slimey. I am a bit worried about the jetting so I have ordered an EGT to put my mind at ease.
The EGT is the best thing i have done for my bike . Would be great to see some footage of the bike in action so we can hear it singing in band . 8)
The people that run the track days at Eastern Creek won't let you have a camera on the bike so no footage I'm afraid. When we go to Wakefield Park I will bring the camera.
A bit of eye candy.
I need to get another radiator cap, the one on the bike doesn't tighten down properly and yesterday I took the one off the SP and RGV to try but no difference. The catch tank gets filled up after about 5 laps as the cap is not long enough to make a good seal so the water can just get released with little or no resistance. Then because the temp probe is at the top or the rad the temp bounces around.
The part numbers for all the tZRs and the 4DP are the same with a different prefix for each but I am going to order the TZ one and see what happens. I could mount a recovery tank to make sure if all else fails.
Pat
Check radiator is not damaged from a crash where cep fits, mine is awkward and temperamental.
I have ordered another rad from uk so I can try get this one fixed.
They are such simple machines. Beauty itself.
You are on avgas now? Have you checked piston top color, that'll tell you straight away what jetting is doing.
I am keeping myself up on the rich side and trying not to pull hard into the higher revs, it pulls mid nicely.
Yea after a bit of searching I found a reliable source of Avgas so I will be sticking with that. Going to take the heads off during the week and have a look. I put a new set of plugs in yesterday at the end of the day, they were Iridums because the ones that were fitted couldn't be got. The old plugs were a nice tan colour but the new ones were a light tan when I checked them. I didn't do a chop just looked as far down as I could. I will do a chop this week also.
The Rad doesn't have any damage and even allowing for the water that would be lost as the temp rises I am not comfortable with the water level when I come in. At the moment I just empty the catch tank and top up the water every time I come in.
when i last took my heads off after last jetting change (and they were good) i noticed a "vaseline" type creamy film on the LHS head. i took this for water maybe passing into the chamber while idling off the track. i have since read the OEM head bolts are cr@p on the TZ forum, they streach, anyway i changed the orings and bolted her back up. its worth a look in there anyway, avgas is great for colour indications.
let me know how it goes and also post a pic of the pistons
Ordered a new cap today and its not the same as the SP but is used on a lot of Yamaha models including the 1KT so I should have taken the TDR one >:(.
I sent you some pictures of my PV set up Paul as the book doesnt say how to set them.
The bike is raedy for some attention :) Two allen keys and a flat screwdriver and its stripped this far 8)
koel pat
i came right and all is sorted
these TZ's are pure simplicity and a joy to work on
oh, and they go like stink!
Sweet 8)
love that bike , be about the ideal thing for my local track
Booked in another track day mid Feb. I have just fitted the EGT to the bike and also had the heads off for a look. Have fitted new o rings, head studs and copper washers so I know exactly how old the bolts are now. I need to buy another choke cable because I only have one on the bike at the moment and the EGT aint much use without that. I might run it on the rolling road I made beforehand to see how it operates.
Does your rolling road have resistance , like a brake or something to put a load so that it does not just spin up too freely . As said before , you need some heat to build up in the pipe to see what is going on .
Would be nice to have a dyno in the shed !
Pat
What temp does your Tz sit at? Mine is 45.
Quote from: Neal on January 21, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
Does your rolling road have resistance , like a brake or something to put a load so that it does not just spin up too freely . As said before , you need some heat to build up in the pipe to see what is going on .
Would be nice to have a dyno in the shed !
A race engine operates in acceleration mode, so that's what you have to simulate no need for a brake. All you need do is put the tallest gearing possible , start in 4th gear and go through to 6th, your 5 second 3rd gear run will turn into 25 seconds. easy long enough to load the engine hard and get a good egt figure.
Does your rolling road have resistance , like a brake or something to put a load so that it does not just spin up too freely . As said before , you need some heat to build up in the pipe to see what is going on .
Would be nice to have a dyno in the shed !
I have a big heavy roller that came off a tail conveyor of a concrete crusher and I also fitted a brake to keep things in check. I need to get a different roller however as this one is not perfectly balanced and was never designed to run at those speeds and picks up a vibration around third gear flat out. Its useful to see if you bike is reving out fully and then adjust the jets accordingly. The 3XV behaved the same on the road as the rolling road.
Paul my TZ runs about 55-60 degrees and I dont head out until I see at least 50 on the temp guage. My bike was chucking out water due to the rad cap and then would rise a bit after a few laps but I have never seen numbers in the 40s when riding it. You could just tape it up a bit and see what happens. The last thing you want is a cold sieze.
Manual calls for 70deg!
I wonder if this gauge is not working properly, it records ambient perfectly.
I'll test it with boiling water.
Yes the book says 70 and before I bought the TZ I always thought 70 was the number but it was between 35 and 40 degrees the last day I was out and the guage didnt get over 60. The only time it did was when it lost a bit more water into the catch tank due to the rad cap and it was sploshing around the rad under the probe.
Quote from: epa police on January 21, 2013, 09:25:17 PM
Paul my TZ runs about 55-60 degrees and I dont head out until I see at least 50 on the temp guage. My bike was chucking out water due to the rad cap and then would rise a bit after a few laps but I have never seen numbers in the 40s when riding it. You could just tape it up a bit and see what happens. The last thing you want is a cold sieze.
Quote from: epa police on January 22, 2013, 11:51:06 AM
Yes the book says 70 and before I bought the TZ I always thought 70 was the number but it was between 35 and 40 degrees the last day I was out and the guage didnt get over 60. The only time it did was when it lost a bit more water into the catch tank due to the rad cap and it was sploshing around the rad under the probe.
Are both these replies from the same person?
Just having a dig. So it does run below 45?
Whoops I meant the air temp was 35 to 40 degrees, I should have read what I wrote before posting ;D
ahh
thanks for clearing that up pat
nice one EPA, keep her "smokin"
I have one question for all you experienced guys out there.
How does the 3XV SPR compare to the TZ's, concerning performance and handling?
And that will be a well sorted one of each....?
It would be interesting to hear the answers...
Anyone
If you wait six months I could tell you at least with an SP and TZ. Well sorted might be stretching it ;D
yes i can wait epa.
but remember the SP and SPR are different in some respects and i was curious to know if someone had "firsthand" experience about this
Well I volunteer to do a back to back test between my TZR and Pauls TZ at the next track day .......hahaha ;)
Yea I know they are different but I will still take one for the team and do the research on the SP >:D
do you wanna sandwich paul between you and myself crank??
Quote from: epa police on January 23, 2013, 12:32:14 PM
Yea I know they are different but I will still take one for the team and do the research on the SP >:D
Good one epa, take one for the team 8)
Quote from: Crank on January 23, 2013, 12:25:45 PM
Well I volunteer to do a back to back test between my TZR and Pauls TZ at the next track day .......hahaha ;)
That TZR of yours Crank is pretty quick i must say.... Ill have to buy that dyno now so we can sort our bikes out once and for all... ;D
Scott's bike is quick. I've said it before.
My tuned 3xv1 is amazingly quick. Talking of TZ an' all.
Paul who tuned your barrels on your 3XV?
Quote from: epa police on February 15, 2013, 07:20:43 AM
Paul who tuned your barrels on your 3XV?
Graham coker
its not simply the barrels though
he modified the rubber inlets, then worked the crank inlet and transfers, a blueprint, barrels/ports and PV's, then made pipes to match.
I am going to have to find out who did my TZ the last time. I have the spare set of barrels there and one needs a replate. I am thinking of either getting them tuned to the same spec as the ones on the bike. But then again I think they are a bit too far tuned so I might just get them repalted as they are now. Either way I want to ahve a spare set for when she goes pop.
ja pat, my bike is stock standard, im keeping it that way.
the bike goes faster than i really want to go anyway, its all about fun for me. i feel privileged just riding.
I had the TZ out yesterday and tried out the EGT for the first time. I was confident the readings would be good after pulling the heads off and having a look and plug readings etc, they were not. About 750m down the 1km straight the needles were off the scale and they needles actually got stuck at the top and I had to come in to tap the guage to get them to come back down. I was running 370/380 mains so I went up one but then spent the next 2hrs chasing a carb problem that caused the bike to only fire on the top cylinder. I missed two sessions and after stepping up the mains during the day I ended up with 400 top and 420 bottom but the bottom is still a bit hot. I could probally get away with 390 top but I might just leave it but I think 440 bottom would be where I need to go to get the same range from the bottom.
I am not sure what the carb problem was but think it was choke related or else a dodgy main jet must have got mixed in. I spent most of the day watching the guages.
Other than that the bike ran well and apart from a shiny new Ducati binning it right in front of me the day was a good one. I dont know what the guy did but I was that close to him and lining up a move around the outside that if he didnt spin out wide after he fell off I was going right over the top of him. Ducati had a pile of bikes there, must have been a club thing and by days end there was quite a pile of wrecked biies around.
What temps are you going for?
370/380 is small compared to mine
Swap the probes around to the other cyl to make sure you get the same temps. Something sounds odd
Is the PJ pipe not disconnected RHS?
I started with 370/380 mains as these were the settings given with all the information from the last owner but now the 370 has gone up to 400 on the top cylinder and she is at about 1050, the bottom was 380 but is now 420 but I estimate aorund 440 would balance it out. Its close to the end of the straight where the revs are 12500 or above that it gets really hot but I would like another 150m on the gas but obviously I need to button off early. I cant really change the gearing because I will suffer around the back of the circuit.
What the plan is for the next time out 400 top 440 bottom and I am going down one tooth at the back and see if I can keep it in the power. Its the straight is the killer because its so long the rest of the track it runs well and keeps within range jsut a bit out of balance between both sides.
I am aiming for around 1250 max as suggested.
I pinched the air solenoid off the SP so the power jet is all good
Hi Pat, maybe I can drag the SP hybrid out at the next track day for a comparo ;)
What size power jets are you running?
Thought I recognised the bike number but not the colour - John must have painted it since the last time I saw it.
Were you there yesterday Jools? No number on my bike but the paint job did look fresh and it was John Hewitts bike before me. There is a 70 power jet in the top carb anyway I didnt look in the bottom carb.
Are you the same Jools from Newcastle area because there is another Jools on one of these forums from Victoria somewhere or did you move
No mate I'm in Sydney.
I wasn't there yesterday either. I was planning to get a track day in before the Bary Sheene but I'm too busy and neither bike is ready. I have entered the V Twin but I will probably change that for the 2MA F3 bike as this is almost developed and needs to justify its place in the garage.
They usually combine these classes so it is either one or the other, plus the trusty old 250LC of course.
Its just the number 95 on the original photos you posted is normally Johns number with the PCRA and Historics.
I will be there on my SP to do the Yamaha parade laps and see what parts I can swipe from the TZ display. Its the 40th year of the TZ so Yamaha are having a good showing of TZs as well as the other show.
The new radiator cap also solved the water problem. After it chucked out the water in the first session it stayed at that level and the temp stayed constant. I fitted the correct TZ cap after trying the SP one and the RGV one as well as two others the last day.
My TZ750 will be on display on the Yamaha 40th Stand - i hope they don't expect me to clean it too much......
You better lock it up, I'm bringing my trailer ;D
I had the TZ out again yesterday and even though the EGT still said I was hot on the bottom cylinder I had to drop the main form 440 to 430 because it wasn't running right, I also went down two teeth on the rear to give me more legs on the straight and keep the revs down. I just had to up the corner speed around the back of the track to keep it on the boil. I then swopped over the EGT to see if I got a different reading which I did. The temp was now in range so one side is reading higher than the other.
I have another guage coming for the other bike and will try that then send this one back.
We had a good day and in my group there was an RS125 and VJ22 also. At one stage we were all on the same section of track, the smell of avgas and ELF must have been beautiful. The RS was flying and that guy didnt care where he passed at one stage we both mugged a Fireblade he went the outside and I went the inside into a tight left, I spoke to him later he said he could hear a two stroke coming past but didnt know if it was left or right then we came both sides, classic stuff >:D
I am trying to get a place on the 8th of April, there is a group of strokers going that day so 10 strokers on track should be a good laugh.
Hi pat
Does your bike ever hit a stutter on WOT?
Or "bubbly" coming out of corners?
Other times its perfect.
It did when I went too rich on the bottom cylinder, when I dropped from 440 to 430 it went away again. I now run 400 430. The first time I rode it it did stutter a bit but I soon realised that I needed to ride it wot everywhere and since have not had a problem. I now use the rear brake to keep it under control. I haven't used the rear brake for over ten years so I have had to modify my riding style but it makes a huge difference
I don't know how different our bikes are but if it helps I'm 350L/330R and 60 PJ
R4 NJ
I dropped from 410/400. I would get a funny now and then which made me worry it was detonation but it was effectively refusing to fire and too rich.
This is about 1500masl
Actually runs well at my place with this jetting. I'm at 700
I am basically at sea level and over on the TZ forum they say not to go under 400 at Eastern Creek. Mine ran well with the 390 400 jets but when I put the EGT on it said it was hot up top so I went a bit higher. I was given information from the last guy about Jet sizes for all the tracks he had been on and even set up information going back to 1996 saying what they did and what damage was done as a result. In the bikes earlier years it was a front runner and was tuned accordingly. Also this bike was tuned again just before I got it so I was not surprised it was a bit off with the suggested jet sizes.
What's the chance of sharing some of that data with track altitude
I have to drive so far then end up mucking around to get it right
Yea no problem I will email you some info later on. I will have to check the track altitude etc first for one track and obviously I dont know what state of tune the motor was back then.
Hi Pat,
great to catch up with you at the weekend - sorry didn't have more time to chat........ :o
also remember the atmospherics - they did change at Eastern Creek over the weekend. a good weather station that has humidity, air density etc is something I need to get instead of guessing.
I'm tied up over in Port Hedland & Newman for the next 10 days but when I get back if you want me to help with the power jet wiring let me know, I can visit or you can bring the bike over whatever.
Trying to work out if I can get any of the bikes ready for the NSW state titles in 3 weeks. The LC needs a full front end transplant as I totally screwed it for the last race.
Having rebuilt the TZR SP Hybrid with a spare used piston & 10 range plugs I took it out for a few laps in the last race. It went like a scalded cat and it was hard to pull it in after the first lap of the race - so I did another lap just to be sure ;D (hand on the clutch :P)
Its still a little bit out on the needle and the pilots which hopefully I can dyno out.
Yea it was good to catch up even if it was under those expensive circumstances. I saw you riding back in to the pits after so I knew the repairs must have been sucessful. Remember the next time if you need spares I just live 10ks up the road from the creek.
I may be on the grid in three weeks time if I can get the paperwork sorted 8)
thanks for the info pat, really useful.
Made my return to racing yesterday on the 4DP and had a good day. Mixed classes and I qualified 5th overall and crossed the line 5th and 3rd in each race, 250GP was my class. It was a good day for the TZs with three in the top 5. I got murdered off the line each time and had to come back through to get to where I was. I also needed a rear tyre before the event but the tyre guy didn't show up so I had to use what I had, it was pretty hairy in the last race dicing with the other TZ. In the end I had nothing for him, I did get past him then he came back past and he ended up running too deep into the next turn but I was too polite and didn't force the issue and that's how it ended. A bit more aggression on my part would have got me to the front earlier, I must be getting old :-[ Then at the prize giving they had forgot to get the trophies made for our class.
I need to get the rear suspension set up for my weight etc now because its destroying the tyre
Sounds like you had a good day Pat.
Yes I did Lozza, back on the 9th of June 8)
Did you get your entry in for round 2 Pat ?
Yea I think I was the first entry this time. Jan hasn't called me yet to say I can't run the SPR in that class so fingers crossed
I don't think she knows - for years she lept calling mine a TZ !!
She relies on others to inform her.
I think you'll be ok.
There are only 3 GP bikes entered for the next round at the weekend, all TZs. I can't see there being too many late entries for the class either. That's a little disappointing and I'm not sure we will even have a class at all because the sup regs say you need 6 entries for a class, just have to wait and see I suppose. The three bikes entered are 1,2,3 overall in the standings so far. This track is hard to pass so a good grid position is critical as is a good start. My bike doesn't like to get off the line so I have a problem straight away :-[
Pat
I wouldn't worry too much about numbers at this stage, you will still get a pot !!
All the classes seem to be small for this round except for the lites, they have 47 entries :o
That's not even break even.
Folks complain about lack of track time and races but they won't support what we manage to get.
::)damned if ya do damned if ya don't
Just pulled the clutch off the bike and had a measure. The plates are .5mm under size each so I think they may be bin material somehow ;D. I am getting the old barrel replated and mat fit the older set of barrels and see how it rides. There are 4DP-1 barrels and its got 4DP-2 on there at the moment but I think they went too far with the tune the last time, might be ok for a super kart but not so good on a bike. Worse case scenario I have a spare set for later. I was planning on changing the pistons anyway so its no big deal. I have a few better clutch plates to use for the dyno so hopefully on Friday I can get them on there.
This is the Dyno sheet for the TZ. My clutch held up to the job but I have new plates on the way. I also sent away the original set of barrels that came with the bike to get replated after the crank snapped and am going to fit them and Dyno it again and see if it gets better.
Hi Pat
Thanks for posting that. It is what I expect to see out of mine.
No problem Paul, we were discussing the dip when the PVs open and he suggested fitting an Ignitech :o
I expected to see a higher HP number to be honest but the curve was better than I thought it would be. According to the EGT the front pot is way too lean still also
When's your next race EPA?
I might come out and have a squizzy and play pit bitch for a while if i'm free.
August 31 at Wakefield Park come along for sure. Mark and Jools will be there also. After that we are back at Eastern Creek for the last round
Marked it in my calendar, if i'm free i'll head down for sure.
Now that the season is over and the bike survived despite my best efforts yesterday in tossing it down the road thanks to a huge front end lose in qualifying its time to strip the motor. This bike will not launch and I get swamped by at least two rows behind me at the race starts. I have fitted a new clutch fibre, steels plates and springs with only a minor improvement. This means that I spend the first 2 or 3 laps getting back to where I was on the grid but then have lost all contact with the guys in front. Either something is wrong in the transmission or I am going to have to change the ratios in the box. The transmission is starting to make some strange noises so that's where I will start.
I also dropped the mains and the PJ to 50 from 60 and the bike ran a whole lot better still not 100% but close enough to pick up 2 seconds. Thanks Jools for the suggestion 8)
Don't mention it Pat,
8)
Here is a video from the qualifying session. I didn't edit it so after 7min is just rubbish
http://youtu.be/BvTe0JlPySs
That was me with busted crankshaft & my hand up heading for the pit entrance...... ;D
Is that Easyern Creek ? Looks like there are a few bikes in your class !
I will really try to make it to the Barry Sheene event next year and run in pre modern class .
That's one configuration they run at Eastern Creeks Neal. That's the south circuit 1.8km. There also is the North, GP and the full circuit. The GP circuit is what the Barry Sheene run. its none of the tight stuff around the back of this circuit. That class was GP250, pre mod F3, production p6 250 and p6 251-500cc.
One from the race on the TZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJBUihrzsbE&feature=youtu.be
That looks like a fun circuit ! Looks just right for a 250 ! + lots of run off for those boo boo's
My bike is nearly back together , so I will have to get up there for a blast . :D
My licence is up for renewal, so i will upgrade to senior national.
Can I ride these events with hartwell membership ?
Nice going.
What camera is that? Go pro? Excellent video and sound.
Condour Roam2 camera Paul. I only just got it a few weeks ago and that was the first time out. Still sussing it out at the moment but its easy to use and perfect for the bike. One big on off switch and that's it, perfect for a glove finger. The battery only lasts 1.5hr as I found out so no helmet footage.
http://global.contour.com/
How do you compress and post up the video
I'm a bit of a dinosaur on this stuff !!
I just copied it into the computer straight from the camera and uploaded it to you tube. It would only work on my laptop running windows 7, XP kept stopping. It took 3.5 hrs to upload each one. I will look into getting some editing software to compress them and only upload the bits I want.