As discussed in the PRI show thread here: http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=241.15
I've heard from Wossner USA on the 3XV R/RS piston kits. What I was told -
Prices on piston kits (which include piston, rings, piston pin and piston pin clips) will be approx $150 USD each (+shipping) for a first run of 10 pistons. There is a small cost savings in ordering more than 10 (10 to 20), however without commitments for these extra pistons, I've only requested a preliminary run of 10. More can be added later if there is the interest.
I just checked what it would cost me if I ordered all of these OE parts separately from www.rscycles.com website:
Piston - 3XV-11631-01-95 = $132.50 USD each
Rings – 3XV-11610-00 = $75.97 USD each
Piston Pin – 3XV-11633-00 = $26.15 USD each
Circlips (sold in packs of 5, priced each) - 93450-17129 = $1.15 USD each, $5.75 USD total
Total $240.37 USD (+ shipping)
Those same OE parts ordered from Accu-Products are $230.32 USD total (+ shipping)
You chaps able to get parts locally may be able to get better pricing than this. Moriwaki Man quoted me a price of $92.50 USD each (+ shipping) for the bare OE pistons, making the total somewhere in the ballpark of $200.37 (+ shipping). So, there appears to be a savings in the Wossner piston kits, especially for guys like me that cannot get them locally.
I've provided Wossner with a sample domed top R/RS piston which should make it's way to Germany soon, at which time it will be measured/mapped/traced/whatever you want to call it. Once the specs are finalized, I need to give them a 50% deposit on the order, whether that be a run of 10 pistons or more.
So I am officially accepting pre-orders now for those wanting pistons from this first run. These will have the coating on the skirts of the piston, as all the other Wossner pistons I've seen. I'm planning on keeping four (4) of these for myself, selling a pair locally to a friend that holed a piston in his 3XV, and it sounds like Muz_j is wanting a pair as well. So, if Muz is serious and is in for two (2), then eight of the first ten are already sold.
Please post or PM me if you are interested in some pistons. When it's time to give Wossner the deposit, I would need the same from you, so I'm not out all that money. Wossner will be shipping these to me in the US. You will pay whatever it costs me to ship them to you, no more. :)
Good on you for stumping up the cash and doing all the leg work. Rather odd those circlips are sold in packs of 5 :o
Quote from: EEKNOWS on December 12, 2012, 10:28:23 PM
Good on you for stumping up the cash and doing all the leg work. Rather odd those circlips are sold in packs of 5 :o
Thanks EEKNOWs, all I need now are some folks to chime in and say they want a set, otherwise I'm stuck with lots of spares... :(
Come on guys...no one else needs/wants pistons?
Are you not being charged import and vat? Then there's shipping to say South Africa and same taxes again. I estimate all told $420-440 landed here for a pair. I think that kills it.
If we ordered straight from Germany it would help.
Quote from: Paul on December 13, 2012, 10:43:02 AM
Are you not being charged import and vat? Then there's shipping to say South Africa and same taxes again. I estimate all told $420-440 landed here for a pair. I think that kills it.
If we ordered straight from Germany it would help.
As far as I know, there are no additional import or vat on these from Germany to me in the US. Yes there would be some shipping charges from me to wherever you are, but my experience with shipping with the US Postal Service...it's quite reasonable.
I expect the the prices I'm getting are because they are being run thru a business account, and there being a run of 10 pistons. I don't know if they will break up the order and ship some seperately to someone else other than my buddies business. I can ask, but I seriously doubt it.
good egg i would love to buy a pair ,send me an email cheers
Shipping it wont be that much. Its not that heavy.
Quote from: twosheds on December 13, 2012, 07:57:38 PM
good egg i would love to buy a pair ,send me an email cheers
email sent Ian...
Jim, I'm interested in a set.
Quote from: KAGE25x on December 18, 2012, 10:12:19 PM
Jim, I'm interested in a set.
NICE!! We may have to get more than 10 in this first run?
I just bought a 3XV that apparently needs new rings, so i'd rather buy the job lot for the top end rather than go off hearsay.
I am interested in a set also.
Cheers.
Hey Jim
I'll support the cause and buy a set.
Update on the piston order - currently I have:
2 - Kingy38 - Deposit Received
2 - Wullie3XV9 - Deposit Received
2 - Paul - Deposit Received
2 - Tonyhes - Responded - Deposit Pending
2 - Lane - PM Received - Deposit Pending
2 - Kage25X - PM Sent - Deposit Pending
2 - Twosheds - emailed - Deposit Pending
2 - Muz-J - PM Sent - Deposit Pending
6 - jcsnook - 4 for me, to for Gary
_______________________
22 total piston kits now if all respond and (hopefully) give a deposit
I'll update this as more responses/deposits are received. Let me know if I missed anyone or have any wrong info...
Jim
Is there a cut off date?
I'll pay but don't post it immediately until we know there is no issues.
Quote from: tonyhes on December 27, 2012, 07:08:21 AM
Is there a cut off date?
Tony, sort of...there will be a need to "commit to purchase" once I hear from Wossner that they are finished measuring my piston and are ready to make the first batch. I should be able to cover the 50% deposit needed to get them started, but will need your payment when they are completed and ready to ship to me. That's when I must settle up with them.
I wish I had firm dates to give you, but I do not (yet). I suspect they will be able to provide me with some firm timeframes once they are ready to start producing, I will have to ask.
Quote from: Paul on December 27, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
I'll pay but don't post it immediately until we know there is no issues.
No worries Paul...I'll let you. Keep an eye on this thread for updates.
Good news, some progress with Wossner Germany. I received via fax the sketch below (and attached).
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FTZRPiston_zps0e99c8f5.jpg&hash=39e56d41e8037f8bae4ba710224e20133586d016)
They are awaiting deposit and the total number of pistons needed. Should you have any questions/concerns with the anything, please ask and I can pass onto Wossner USA. I don't think Mark asked how long it would take them to run this first batch of pistons, but at only 16, I can't imagine it would be very long.
So, if everyone that's wanting to purchase piston kits could please PM me with their info and current status, I would very much appreciate it. Those that don't respond will not be ordered piston kits. I will try and PM those that are listed as "comitted to buy" myself for a status, but please follow up with me if/when you read this. Even better, if you could paypal me a deposit, I would be even more warm and fuzzy that I won't be left with a bunch of spare 3XV R/RS pistons. ;D
Just something you might want to ask about as recently(last year) we have had issues with sinking domes on Wossners. It might be OK for a soley road bike but anything track or even spirited road use might cause this to occur. By the drawing you can see the dome is only 5.3mm thick, most cast aftermarket and OEM pistons are 6min and almost 8mm max. If your at a track day and the engine suddenly goes "off/flat" for no apparent reason, the dome will have sunk.
Looks like it's 6.6mm EEKNOWS? Or am I looking at the wrong bit?
I haven't had a PM but I can PayPal you if you send me your email.
Quote from: Jakes on January 04, 2013, 10:33:28 AM
Looks like it's 6.6mm EEKNOWS? Or am I looking at the wrong bit?
56.3mm to top of dome
51mm to underside of dome
=5.3mm
Looks like 6.6mm to the bottom of the ring groove
I take it these are forged and so require a longer warm up time?
Would it be safe to say these will end up lighter than the stock pistons?
Quote from: Lane on January 04, 2013, 01:13:10 PM
I take it these are forged and so require a longer warm up time?
Would it be safe to say these will end up lighter than the stock pistons?
Not usualy they will be the same mass as the OEM
Jim, I've sent you a deposit to secure a pair of these here piston kits. Many thanks for all your hard work on this. 8)
Quote from: EEKNOWS on January 04, 2013, 06:18:46 AM
Just something you might want to ask about as recently(last year) we have had issues with sinking domes on Wossners. It might be OK for a soley road bike but anything track or even spirited road use might cause this to occur. By the drawing you can see the dome is only 5.3mm thick, most cast aftermarket and OEM pistons are 6min and almost 8mm max. If your at a track day and the engine suddenly goes "off/flat" for no apparent reason, the dome will have sunk.
I will ask EE, thanks for that. Question tho...what particular make/model/type bike were the problem Wossner pistons in, and, how thick were the domes of those pistons if you know? I suspect they will be asking...
So a minimum of a 6mm thick dome is desired? What will that do to piston weight, as you mention...we want them to be equal mass to the stock piston. I would expect that these dimensions are a direct copy of the Mama Yama's piston no?
Quote from: Wullie3XV9 on January 04, 2013, 03:45:56 PM
Jim, I've sent you a deposit to secure a pair of these here piston kits. Many thanks for all your hard work on this. 8)
Got it Wullie...thx! ;)
Quote from: Paul on January 04, 2013, 10:35:05 AM
I haven't had a PM but I can PayPal you if you send me your email.
Sorry Paul, went out to eat with the family last night an didn't get to it yet. My oldest is returning to college today :( Responded to your PM tho, so all is well... ;D
okay, no probs, i slapped $150 in. thanks.
The problem is confined to this year, last year we had zero issues. To date we have 8 or 9 lunched pistons. Every piston has a thumb size depression between the centre of the crown and the timing edge on the exhaust side. Piston is an Aprilia GP, dome is 5mm thick on one side and 6mm the intake side. They have been lasting as little as 8 laps of a circuit. However I have esed 3 in MX 125's despite having 15 yr olds flog the bike mercilessly they hold up well. Even 2mm extra thickness would be lucky to add a gram.
i am up for a little improvement if possible
Quote from: EEKNOWS on January 04, 2013, 05:20:54 PM
The problem is confined to this year, last year we had zero issues. To date we have 8 or 9 lunched pistons. Every piston has a thumb size depression between the centre of the crown and the timing edge on the exhaust side. Piston is an Aprilia GP, dome is 5mm thick on one side and 6mm the intake side. They have been lasting as little as 8 laps of a circuit. However I have esed 3 in MX 125's despite having 15 yr olds flog the bike mercilessly they hold up well. Even 2mm extra thickness would be lucky to add a gram.
Thanks for that...
It might not been any use but I will be in Frankfurt for a week mid February. I can check with work but you might be able to get them/some sent there and I can post them on at cost to SA/KZN/UK etc if you like.
It might turn out cheaper and possibly sneak past the customs and their tax-stick.
Quote from: jcsnook on January 04, 2013, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: EEKNOWS on January 04, 2013, 05:20:54 PM
The problem is confined to this year, last year we had zero issues. To date we have 8 or 9 lunched pistons. Every piston has a thumb size depression between the centre of the crown and the timing edge on the exhaust side. Piston is an Aprilia GP, dome is 5mm thick on one side and 6mm the intake side. They have been lasting as little as 8 laps of a circuit. However I have esed 3 in MX 125's despite having 15 yr olds flog the bike mercilessly they hold up well. Even 2mm extra thickness would be lucky to add a gram.
Thanks for that...
No problems might never be an issue but worth checking anyway. Is it possible you could put me in contact with the US Wossner importer. As Wossner is ignoring the importer here.
Quote from: EEKNOWS on January 05, 2013, 12:31:23 AM
Quote from: jcsnook on January 04, 2013, 05:26:59 PM
Quote from: EEKNOWS on January 04, 2013, 05:20:54 PM
The problem is confined to this year, last year we had zero issues. To date we have 8 or 9 lunched pistons. Every piston has a thumb size depression between the centre of the crown and the timing edge on the exhaust side. Piston is an Aprilia GP, dome is 5mm thick on one side and 6mm the intake side. They have been lasting as little as 8 laps of a circuit. However I have esed 3 in MX 125's despite having 15 yr olds flog the bike mercilessly they hold up well. Even 2mm extra thickness would be lucky to add a gram.
Thanks for that...
No problems might never be an issue but worth checking anyway. Is it possible you could put me in contact with the US Wossner importer. As Wossner is ignoring the importer here.
Sure thing Big "E". I will PM you his info on Monday. His business card is in my office at work. ::)
Quote from: yanw on January 04, 2013, 10:58:27 PM
It might not been any use but I will be in Frankfurt for a week mid February. I can check with work but you might be able to get them/some sent there and I can post them on at cost to SA/KZN/UK etc if you like.
It might turn out cheaper and possibly sneak past the customs and their tax-stick.
I don't know if they would do that - ship some to different addresses or let some be picked up? I could ask I guess. Pick up will depend on when the run of pistons is complete. They will be wanting final payment and wanting to ship them all out when there complete I suspect. And, as this is being run thru a business account, payment will need to made thru the business.
It may be worth looking into...I will.
Update on the piston order - currently I have:
6 - jcsnook - Me ;)
2 - Kingy38 - Deposit Received
2 - Wullie3XV9 - Deposit Received
2 - Paul - Deposit Received
2 - Tonyhes - Responded - Deposit Pending
2 - Lane - PM Received - Deposit Pending
2 - Kage25X - PM Sent - Deposit Pending
2 - Twosheds - emailed - Deposit Pending
2 - Muz-J - PM Sent - Deposit Pending
_______________________
22 total piston kits now if all respond and give a deposit
I'll update this as more responses/deposits are received. Let me know if I missed anyone or have any wrong info...
Jim
you can see the brown spot on the dome and this also happened
That looks bad ! Is it just a piston failure or jetting/ignition induced ?
What does it look like under the crown ?
Well it's happened with a slightly retard stock RS125 ignition even jetted rich. It seems to matter not what state of tune. There is a dark spot under the depressed part. It gets hot quickly.
1/6/2012 - Update on the piston order - currently I have:
6 - jcsnook - Me ;)
2 - Kingy38 - Deposit Received
2 - Wullie3XV9 - Deposit Received
2 - Paul - Deposit Received
2 - Tonyhes - Deposit Received
2 - Lane - Deposit Received
2 - Kage25X - Deposit Received
2 - Twosheds - Deposit Received
2 - Muz-J - Deposit Received
_______________________
22 total piston kits now as all have responded and gave deposits!!
I will give Wossner a call tomorrow and discuss the dome thickness concern and give them the deposit and the green light to get going. Should anyone else wish to get in on the order let me know ASAP and I'll see what I can do. If I missed anyone or have any wrong info...let me know :o
Jim
Cheers Jim!
Wired you the cash and sent you a PM earlier.
Okay...22 Pistons are on order! They tell me turnaround time is typically 4 to 6 weeks. Making the change to the 6mm dome added a few more days, but not anything significant. It does require it go back to Engineering to make the change.
I spoke at length with both Alex and John about the dome thickness, and they didn't feel it was necessary to make the change, as these will be forged pistons, which will be significantly stronger than the OEM cast pistons. They tell me that they make a turbo Hyabusa piston with the same 5.3mm dome thickness and have never had an issue with them. Then they said "However...the customer is always right, and they would be happy to make whatever changes I wanted to these pistons"...so as to not loose face here and have everybody happy with there pistons, I told them to thicken the dome to 6mm ;)
I asked about local pickup of a portion of the order, and was told no...the order must ship complete. Sorry, I asked tho :(
Forgive me, Jim. But to add weight to the pistons based on some unsubstantiated internet forum posts seems somewhat foolish :-\. The boys at Wossner know what they are talking about, and matching the dimensions of the stock pistons seems entirely sensible as they are not prone to any inherent crown problems at all.
Surely it's better to listen to the engineering experts over an unsubstantiated internet forum post-referring to an experience with an entirely different motor - of unknown set-up etc.?
I agree with you on the whole piston dome thing Warwick...and It's not to late to leave it as is, if that is what the majority of piston purchasors want me to do.
I've put John on hold till I hear back from the majority of the potential buyers on what they'd prefer. I'm told there will be an Engineering fee to make changes, which will pump up the cost some - how much, I don't know?
Please guys let me know what you want here. Wossner feels it's not necessary as these pistons will be made from 4032 high silicone aluminum, much much stronger than the original cast item
Quote from: Warwick on January 15, 2013, 12:08:26 AM
Forgive me, Jim. But to add weight to the pistons based on some unsubstantiated internet forum posts seems somewhat foolish :-\. The boys at Wossner know what they are talking about, and matching the dimensions of the stock pistons seems entirely sensible as they are not prone to any inherent crown problems at all.
Surely it's better to listen to the engineering experts over an unsubstantiated internet forum post-referring to an experience with an entirely different motor - of unknown set-up etc.?
I think the pistons should be as per the stock Yamaha ones - i.e. do not increase the dome thickness.
Quote from: muz_j on January 15, 2013, 02:09:34 AM
Quote from: Warwick on January 15, 2013, 12:08:26 AM
Forgive me, Jim. But to add weight to the pistons based on some unsubstantiated internet forum posts seems somewhat foolish :-\. The boys at Wossner know what they are talking about, and matching the dimensions of the stock pistons seems entirely sensible as they are not prone to any inherent crown problems at all.
Surely it's better to listen to the engineering experts over an unsubstantiated internet forum post-referring to an experience with an entirely different motor - of unknown set-up etc.?
I think the pistons should be as per the stock Yamaha ones - i.e. do not increase the dome thickness.
+2
If going thicker was an improvement I'd back it
If not, as is the advice you're given, then I'll go with that
Quote from: muz_j on January 15, 2013, 02:09:34 AM
Quote from: Warwick on January 15, 2013, 12:08:26 AM
Forgive me, Jim. But to add weight to the pistons based on some unsubstantiated internet forum posts seems somewhat foolish :-\. The boys at Wossner know what they are talking about, and matching the dimensions of the stock pistons seems entirely sensible as they are not prone to any inherent crown problems at all.
Surely it's better to listen to the engineering experts over an unsubstantiated internet forum post-referring to an experience with an entirely different motor - of unknown set-up etc.?
I think the pistons should be as per the stock Yamaha ones - i.e. do not increase the dome thickness.
Murry,
The best I could measure...I believe the stock piston has a 6mm dome thinkness, but remember it's a cast piston. The new Wossner's will be forged pistons, and be made of much stronger 4032 high silicone aluminum material.
You're not comparing apples to apples here - ie: cast to cast, so matching the original dome thickness does not seem so critical.
And as Warwick points out, the failures that Lozza was experiencing, were on a completely different motor...a Aprillia GP race motor, most likely running race fuel, with higher compression and tuned to the edge.
I asked John to review the forum thread and have a look at the failed piston and let me know what he thinks. His responses pasted below. Feel free to contact him should you have any offsite questions:
Jim,
I took a look at the image and find that it is not due to the dome being too thin that caused the failure, it was due to an improper tune up/timing condition. That piston was not only forced to suffer an early death it kept running after the initial damage, the dome thickness had nothing to do with it. Now if the top land (distance from the top ring to the dome above the ring) was taller it would have taken more time for the damage to occur.
John_____________________________________________________
When asked about the brown spot on the dome:
Jim,
It looks like nothing more than carbon buildup or burnt residue from the fuel and oil mixture..
John_____________________________________________________________________
His contact info:
John Noonan
Sales Manager
Wössner Pistons USA
714-369-8879
john@wossnerpistons.com
WWW.WossnerPistons.com
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Quote from: jcsnook on January 14, 2013, 11:48:42 PM
I spoke at length with both Alex and John about the dome thickness, and they didn't feel it was necessary to make the change, as these will be forged pistons, which will be significantly stronger than the OEM cast pistons. They tell me that they make a turbo Hyabusa piston with the same 5.3mm dome thickness and have never had an issue with them. Then they said "However...the customer is always right, and they would be happy to make whatever changes I wanted to these pistons"...so as to not loose face here and have everybody happy with there pistons, I told them to thicken the dome to 6mm ;)
Hi Jim,
Your last post in this thread is not clear to me.
Earlier in this thread you have been discussing the dome thickness of the pistons, based on comments regarding a Wossner piston in an Aprilia motor.
Your quote above and other comments in this thread suggest that the stock piston dome thickness is 5.3mm. Your comment above states that you have requested the piston domes to be thickened to 6mm.
My point is as per Warwick's comments - and given your comments above regarding comparing apples with apples and the forged pistons being stronger than cast ones, can you please confirm what dome thickness the Wossner 3XV pistons are being made with?
I see no logic at all based on your earlier comments and your most recent post for increasing the thickness of the piston domes to 6mm from 5.3mm and your post from Wossner confirms this - i.e. that there is no need to make this change.
I would like a set of forged pistons that match the original Yamaha Specifications.
>>> Can you please clearly state what dome thickness the pistons will have ? ??? <<<Thanks and I appreciate your efforts to get these pistons.
Sorry for any confusion, I'll try to clarify... ???
- The stock (cast) piston, to the best of my ability to measure it, appears to have a dome thickness of 6mm
- The sketch provided by Wossner of the NEW (forged) pistons they are making for us, proposes a dome thickness of 5.3mm
- In a post from Lozza (EEKNOWS) it was suggested that the dome of the NEW Wossner (forged) pistons be thickened up to 6mm, to ward off a "possible" problem similar to the problem he has been having in a Aprilla RS125 GP race bike running Wossner pistons.
Other buyers chimed in (understandably) saying that they were up for any improvements that could be made to these pistons. That's what started all this...
You are correct in that Wossner does not feel it is necessary to make the dome 6mm...as I said, it was suggested by others that I ask Wossner about it, which I did, and posted their reply. I'm stuck in the middle here, trying to do right by everyone and get us all a top shelf piston option that will suit our needs. If their was a known concern with a 2 stroke Wossner piston, I wanted to make sure it was addressed before they make us these, and I distributed them to everyone.
Just to clarify, you won't be getting a piston that will match "exactly" the original Yamaha cast piston specifications, you will be getting a forged piston made to the specifications in the diagram provided by Wossner and previously posted. Bear in mind that (as stated) a forged piston is much stroger than a cast piston, so there can be some subtle differences in the two designs, ie: dome thickness. Wossner also added more material in the area of where the ring alignment pins are located on the piston. However Murry, the outer diameter of the piston, the location of the rings and the ring alignment pins, location of the piston pin, piston height, etc, etc...will all be exactly the same as your OEM Yamaha piston. It will be a plug and play installation so to speak. It will not require any modifications to your barrels, heads, etc.
Hope that helps clarify things.
Quote from: jcsnook on January 16, 2013, 12:52:28 AM
Sorry for any confusion, I'll try to clarify... ???
- The stock (cast) piston, to the best of my ability to measure it, appears to have a dome thickness of 6mm
- The sketch provided by Wossner of the NEW (forged) pistons they are making for us, proposes a dome thickness of 5.3mm
- In a post from Lozza (EEKNOWS) it was suggested that the dome of the NEW Wossner (forged) pistons be thickened up to 6mm, to ward off a "possible" problem similar to the problem he has been having in a Aprilla RS125 GP race bike running Wossner pistons.
Other buyers chimed in (understandably) saying that they were up for any improvements that could be made to these pistons. That's what started all this...
You are correct in that Wossner does not feel it is necessary to make the dome 6mm...as I said, it was suggested by others that I ask Wossner about it, which I did, and posted their reply. I'm stuck in the middle here, trying to do right by everyone and get us all a top shelf piston option that will suit our needs. If their was a known concern with a 2 stroke Wossner piston, I wanted to make sure it was addressed before they make us these, and I distributed them to everyone.
Just to clarify, you won't be getting a piston that will match "exactly" the original Yamaha cast piston specifications, you will be getting a forged piston made to the specifications in the diagram provided by Wossner and previously posted. Bear in mind that (as stated) a forged piston is much stroger than a cast piston, so there can be some subtle differences in the two designs, ie: dome thickness. Wossner also added more material in the area of where the ring alignment pins are located on the piston. However Murry, the outer diameter of the piston, the location of the rings and the ring alignment pins, location of the piston pin, piston height, etc, etc...will all be exactly the same as your OEM Yamaha piston. It will be a plug and play installation so to speak. It will not require any modifications to your barrels, heads, etc.
Hope that helps clarify things.
Hey Jim,
Okay - thanks - that's clear to me now.
On that basis, I'd happily accept either thickness.
6mm would match the Yamaha originals and might make the piston stronger.
5.3mm would likely be fine too and the pistons might weigh a little bit less.
I am inclined to say that whatever Wossner are doing NOW should be left as is, rather than changing the order. If that's 6mm, then fine. If they are ready to make them at 5.3mm and the change will bump the cost up - then I think leave it at 5.3mm.
...those are my thoughts really.
Cheers,
Murray
- (with an "A" in it :P )
is it too late to order a pair of these pistons? how much deposit is needed? :)
No, I don't think it's not to late. Wossner is currently on hold awaiting the go ahead from me. They have my credit card info for the deposit, and a (preliminary) piston kit count of 22, however I'm sure I can ask them to add a couple more to the order when I give them the green light to go.
I've asked that a deposit of $150USD be provided to insure you a pair of piston kits. If your interested, please PM me and I'll give you my email/paypal account info. It's the quickest and most cost efficent way to do it. O0
Not to stir shit up, but I'd much rather have Vertex make some pistons than Wossner (Vertex are cast like OEM). In the GP world many people have had issues with Wossners (in the Honda RS125 usually), but that's running much tighter tolerances and that's running a leaded setup usually. Hopefully, these work out for you guys as that sounds like a great deal.
For what it's worth, I'd go with Wossner's original spec., i.e., dome thickness of 5.3 mm. The ( vast ? ) majority of us will be fitting these to relatively low powered road bikes so I wouldn't think there'd be any issues with them once fitted.
Once again, many thanks for all your hard work & perseverance with this, Jim. 8) :D
low powered Wullie? i'll be racing on these Wossners once i get hold of them.... :)
I've had several conversations with John at WossnerUSA, as did Lozza. ;) While I agree with Wullie and Warwick that the dome probably does not need to be made thicker, I saw no real harm in it, nor did John indicate any negatives, other than the known few grams of extra weight in material. Chances are these pistons will still be lighter than the stock units, even with the 6mm dome. I know there are a few guys here, like Ian (Kingy38) or Paul, that could be putting these into track use, so why not play it safe...I don't want or need any unhappy piston owners ::) John said there should not be any additional engineering fees, so no harm there.
So it made sense to give him a thumbs up on the thicker 6mm dome. I'll still need to give him that "officially" in an email, along with the total number of pistons wanted, and and on doing that once I get a deposit from jt3XV (Jon)...which should be on the 25th.
Quote from: Wullie3XV9 on January 22, 2013, 08:44:32 PM
For what it's worth, I'd go with Wossner's original spec., i.e., dome thickness of 5.3 mm. The ( vast ? ) majority of us will be fitting these to relatively low powered road bikes so I wouldn't think there'd be any issues with them once fitted.
Once again, many thanks for all your hard work & perseverance with this, Jim. 8) :D
Your most welcome Wullie...thank you for the kudo's. We need options to keep these fine machines on the road and track! O0
Quote from: jcsnook on January 23, 2013, 12:06:46 AM
I've had several conversations with John at WossnerUSA, as did Lozza. ;) While I agree with Wullie and Warwick that the dome probably does not need to be made thicker, I saw no real harm in it, nor did John indicate any negatives, other than the known few grams of extra weight in material. Chances are these pistons will still be lighter than the stock units, even with the 6mm dome. I know there are a few guys here, like Ian (Kingy38) or Paul, that could be putting these into track use, so why not play it safe...I don't want or need any unhappy piston owners ::) John said there should not be any additional engineering fees, so no harm there.
So it made sense to give him a thumbs up on the thicker 6mm dome. I'll still need to give him that "officially" in an email, along with the total number of pistons wanted, and and on doing that once I get a deposit from jt3XV (Jon)...which should be on the 25th.
Quote from: Wullie3XV9 on January 22, 2013, 08:44:32 PM
For what it's worth, I'd go with Wossner's original spec., i.e., dome thickness of 5.3 mm. The ( vast ? ) majority of us will be fitting these to relatively low powered road bikes so I wouldn't think there'd be any issues with them once fitted.
Once again, many thanks for all your hard work & perseverance with this, Jim. 8) :D
Your most welcome Wullie...thank you for the kudo's. We need options to keep these fine machines on the road and track! O0
OK, Jim, 6mm dome thickness it is then. ;) I should have said my only worry is that the Wossners end up heavier than OEM pistons causing primary balance / vibration issues. ( Conversely,
lighter pistons will cause excessive vibration too, which would also reduce crank component life! ::) )
hi all you will have my deposit on the 25th ,when i get paid thanks jon ;)
Quote from: Wullie3XV9 on January 23, 2013, 08:16:56 PM
OK, Jim, 6mm dome thickness it is then. ;) I should have said my only worry is that the Wossners end up heavier than OEM pistons causing primary balance / vibration issues. ( Conversely, lighter pistons will cause excessive vibration too, which would also reduce crank component life! ::) )
Wouldn't there only be an issue if one piston was heavier than the other on the same crankshaft...ie: you mix and match different weight pistons? Is that what you were referring to? I see the concern with that...I'll weigh them when I get them and compare the weight to a stock piston. If they are not the same...I suppose they will have to be replaced in pairs, which is what most would be doing anyway I would think?
The sketch provided did not reflect a weight that I saw.
deposit sent ,thanks jon :D
any news ? :)
Yes, sorry Jon, I have a bit of an update...nothing earth shattering :o
My credit card was hit for the 50% deposit and I was sent an invoice - so thank you to everyone that sent me their deposit ;D
I am awaiting the final shop drawing reflecting the 6mm dome thickness (which I will post once received). Once I OK the shop drawing, it should be just a few weeks till the pistons show up here and I can distribute them.
Scanned the thread, maybe I missed it, what is the final cost per piston?
Crank, you may not have missed out...i still have to approve the shop drawing. They may allow me to add another pair of piston kits?
Piston kits (piston, rings, piston pin & piston pin clips) should be in the ballpark of $150 USD plus shipping from the US. I would need a deposit via paypal if you were wanting to secure yourself a pair.
UPDATE!!
Pistons have arrived in California and are being shipped to me as I type this. They should arrive on Friday. Not sure why I never got a revised shop drawing to authorize, but I'm not complaining.
They will have the 6mm dome thickness and...according to Wossner still weigh less than the stock cast piston. John weighed both the stock and Wossner pistons (not the complete kit with rings, piston pin & pin clips) and his weights were:
145 = stock Yamaha cast piston
142 = forged Wossner piston
John tells me the rings may be thinner than the stock rings so more weight savings may be had there as well. I don't know till they show up here and I can weigh them. I'll post up some pix when I get them.
For some reason...they did not make and send 24 pistons, only 23, so they are making another run which, for now, will consist of just one piston, unless someone else wishes to get a pair. If you do, let me know ASAP. I'm sure more can be had later, so no big urgency.
If these work out, and anyone wants me to provide them samples of SP or SPR pistons to duplicate, I am willing to assist. I'm not sure what the prices are on those or what other alternatives to OEM pistons there are for other model TZR's.
If you've not already PM'ed me your mailing address, please do so. That way I can get some shipping quotes and calculate final balances due on these kits delivered to your doors.
Yippee!
Sounds great - thanks for the update.
Great news, Jim. :D I've PM'ed you my postal address as you requested above.
Finally made time to post up a couple of pix of the new pistons. I think they look very nice!! ;D
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2425_zps70631f98.jpg&hash=f5f6fa609bd4b86544b2ece6ce45e3ff0bb05aa2)
On my shitty postal scale, the kits appear to weigh the same? Oops...I just noticed I left a wrist pin clip in the stock piston :-[
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2412_zpsb9564c57.jpg&hash=c3670b73c86c7ce9fd98493fe9024440f7a0dc9b)
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Some side by side shots for comparison...
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The keen eye will see the Wossner's have no no oil hole in them for the wrist pin (https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2435_zps5db23000.jpg&hash=d28a48b625e5f69d55682d29d1926b2ae8405ac8)
Instead they have two grooves cut in the wrist pin hole, between the wrist pin clips. You can just see one of them in the pic.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2432_zps7d2b6e69.jpg&hash=9eabacad4525fe5d9d09ee31efdc880aeeb8cfc0)
A nice...how do you guys say..."Bit of a Kit!!"
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If you need any measurements on these that I am able to do myself, just ask and I'll do my best. I have no accurate way to measure the dome thickness tho. Wossner advised me that they made the domes 6mm.
I hope to get some shipping quotes for you guys this weekend and and let you know your balances. If you have not already PM'ed me your address, please do so. A phone number may also be helpful just in case it's needed for shipping. I think the US Postal service will be the most economical, and I think I can get tracking and insurance thru them on international shipping. That would be the safe way to ship these, but if you want them shipped without, that's gonna be on you. Personally, the USPS has never damaged or lost anything I've shipped.
Jim
Sweet Jim
So pretty
They really do look a nice bit of kit, Jim. :D Can't wait to get my oily mits on 'em. ;)
Look great, but what's with the apparent difference in height, Jim? Is it just photo thing? Or a skirt length difference? Or is the difference in the pin to shoulder height? How do they compare with a G pin connecting them side by side?
They look good, just wondering why the channel next to the gudgeon pin hole is smaller, would that affect anything?
Yeah I saw that too Warwick but I was too scared to say something in case I made myself into a bigger idiot :-[
If I was running stock pistons - I would give those a try for sure as they look top spec !
That's just how Wossner cut their cooling recesses, zoomzoom.
Re: the apparent height difference in the pics. As noted, I don't know if it's just a photo illusion or they are on a sloped base or whatever? If there is a difference, but it is purely in the skirt length, It shouldn't make any difference in use I wouldn't have thought? If the difference is in the pin to shoulder height, that would be of more importance though I'd think.
Sorry about the delayed response. I was waiting till today (Monday) to get a couple of questions into WossnerUSA...one being the skirt length. I noticed that too Warwick, but didn't think it would have any negative effects either as it only measured approx .508mm shorter. I've asked Wossner about it, and a couple of other observations...and there responses are shown below my pix and observations/questions. The pin to dome height is the same and is shown in this picture while both pistons are on the same wrist pin.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2438_zps20ebc958.jpg&hash=5855b0aa075977b4604655293368efadfd098bf1)
Skirt length - again while both pistons are on the same wrist pin, and I'm holding them both down on a (hopefully) flat cutting board. In this pic I had the Wossner piston rocked forward on the shorter front side of the skirt which exaggerated the shortness of the back skirt. We later measured it on a surface slate with feeler gauges to get it accurately.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2442_zpsa2d4ba16.jpg&hash=dfb4aca39be06bc5cb10d0d8abc5d635bb127942)
I also questioned about the rings, as Yamaha has a specific top and bottom ring right, and I believe they can also be installed upside down? Anywho, WossnerUSA's responses to my questions.
"James,
Happy Monday:
As long as the piston skirt covers any ports you are fine.
None of the Wossner Pistons we make as a shelf part come with an offset pin, our triple pistons are not offset either.
Both rings are the same and can be used in either ring groove."
I'm confident now to begin distributing these once I get some shipping quotes. If anyone else has a concern, please voice it now and I'll ask WossnerUSA.
Well i never knew yamaha used an offset pin on the 3xv! Now that is interesting!
Are you definitely sure?
Cheers,
Dan
Quote from: Warwick on February 25, 2013, 02:26:02 PM
That's just how Wossner cut their cooling recesses, zoomzoom.
Re: the apparent height difference in the pics. As noted, I don't know if it's just a photo illusion or they are on a sloped base or whatever? If there is a difference, but it is purely in the skirt length, It shouldn't make any difference in use I wouldn't have thought? If the difference is in the pin to shoulder height, that would be of more importance though I'd think.
Warwick, so that is a cooling channel, Scott asked me today if its not to do with the transfer ports, i wasnt sure about that so i couldnt comment.
Are the std Yamaha 3XV flat top pistons offset then? If so I guess to the front by how much?
Quote from: kenny on February 25, 2013, 10:35:37 PM
Are the std Yamaha 3XV flat top pistons offset then? If so I guess to the front by how much?
Kenny,
The standard "R" piston is dome top piston, not flat, and by my crude measurements the pin is approx .457mm (.018") towards the intake side of the piston.
It's really nothing when you consider it's on the end of 110mm connecting rod...I was just wanting clarification from Wossner, that's all.
It exactly what we ordered, a very close copy of the original
Well done Jim.
The offset pin helps reduce the thrust angle, but as you say its minimal so no major change...
Finally got time to visit FedEx, UPS and the USPS today. By far, the best prices are available from the USPS. I planning on shipping these USPS Express Mail, as I can get tracking and insurance all for about $55 USD. FedEx and UPS were both in the $150 range for shipping to the UK
I'm struggling with a few of the options shown on the USPS website trying to get accurate shipping quotes for these. One is the "State/Province/Other" option, as I'm not geographically familiar with your addresses. Another is the "Customs:" option, as I don't want you chaps to be hit with any additional fees.
Maybe you guys can try making your way thru the USPS website here: https://cns.usps.com/go
I don't want to have any issues shipping these. When I choose the International Shipping and I'm shipping to the UK, I first pick a destination: "Great Britian and Northern Ireland", then a State/Province/other: England. There were others to choose from including "United Kingdom" and just plain "Great Britian and Northern Ireland", but I thought "England" was most appropriate. The same will be needed for Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa I'm sure, so please play around in the site and let me know the best choices to make.
I'm not sure what to do with the Customs AES/ITN/Exemtion stuff tho. Do you have any idea? I don't want you to get hit with any big customs fees or anything. I put a value of $300 on the pistons and insured them for the same. There is a Pack & Send store across the street from my subdivision and I think I will go over there for some advice. I put these as Merchandise, not a gift, and described them as motorcycle parts/two (2) motorcycle piston kits. Hope that's the best way to do it? If not, let me know if I should pick gift or other.
As the piston boxes are substantial enough for shipping, the Post Office clerk suggested I just wrap them in brown paper and label them, instead of fitting them inside of another box. Thus saving postage and money buying boxes. If your not good with that, please let me know.
Other postage prices available when shipping to the UK were:
USPS Priority Mail @ $43.10 – but no insurance available :-[ just $67.80 in indemnity coverage
USPS Flat Rate Mail @ $59.95 – but no insurance available :-[ just $124.32 in indemnity coverage
I thought the Express with the $300 of insurance was the best deal. I'd appreciate any shipping advice from those more experienced at it then I am.
hi jim
i've read your post
i cant really comment too much on anyones behalf as i am a risk taker, not a gambler i hasten to add, i have fended for myself these last 20 odd years without working for a boss.
everything i get from US i ask the guys to have tracking and a very low value, and to use USPS. insurance.... well thats for people who like the flip side of paying big duties. paying duties and insurance... you may aswell self insure as you can carry that risk yourself if you bring in 4 or 5 packages a year. ::)
Thanks Paul...seems like a good plan. Did you try and plod your way thru shipping a package to yourself to see what State/Province/other would be the most appropriate for your area. I see now under your avatar you have Durban, South Africa. I didn't notice if that was one of the choices. I didn't see KZN. I'm still not clear on the whole Customs AES/ITN/Exemtion stuff either.
If needed, the from shipping address (mine) is:
208 Normandy Circle West
Palm Harbor, Florida 34683
USA
Jim
although the shipping is sometimes more than the parcel itself, ive had it twice where the part is cheaper than the shippng.
jim
when you have my gear together slap it in a box with a little buble wrap and post it, whatever the cost is ill pay you.
Will do Paul. I'm still awaiting your most recent parts order. When it gets here (or before), I'll dig thru my boxes of spares and have a look at the GSXR calipers I have and photo and measure them for you.
Quote from: jcsnook on March 04, 2013, 03:59:39 PM
Will do Paul. I'm still awaiting your most recent parts order. When it gets here (or before), I'll dig thru my boxes of spares and have a look at the GSXR calipers I have and photo and measure them for you.
Cheers boet
Hi Jim,
Just checking if you need any more info from me?
I PM'ed you my address details a while back.
I'm perfectly happy to pay shipping costs and the remaining amount on the Pistons once you've sorted out the details...
Regards,
Murray
Sorry fellas...I've been really busy and haven't made time to complete the task at hand. I need to desperately...so I can pay down my credit card balance! ::) and I know you guys are anxious to get your hands on them. ;) I'm logged into the USPS website as I type this getting shipping quotes.
I plan to contact each of you via the emails you used to Paypal me the deposits. In the emails, I'll be asking you to verify the mailing addresses I've got for you, and give you the final balances. I need to make sure I've got accurate valid addresses for everyone so these pistons make it safely to their intended destinations.
Shipping for most of you guys in the UK is gonna be around $55, I believe a little less to Canada, and a little more to Australia, South Africa and New Zealand. ;D Kenny already has his pistons as shipping was quick and easy across within the US.
Thanks Jim, I received mine yesterday.
Awesome, Hopefully I will not need them for a while.
I don't know though, I just got a
set of SPR 36's, air box and mani's.
So she's full blown from here on out.
Were those the ones just sold on eBay? I was watching them, but never bid... ::)
No worries Jim,
Monies ready and waiting when you have a figure.
Cheers
Chris
Quote from: jcsnook on March 06, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Were those the ones just sold on eBay? I was watching them, but never bid... ::)
Hell no. With my fully de-resticted bike. I'll be holding on to mine.
Quote from: KAGE25x on March 06, 2013, 04:03:35 AM
Thanks Jim, I received mine yesterday.
Awesome, Hopefully I will not need them for a while.
I don't know though, I just got a
set of SPR 36's, air box and mani's.
So she's full blown from here on out.
Quote from: KAGE25x on March 07, 2013, 04:39:59 AM
Quote from: jcsnook on March 06, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Were those the ones just sold on eBay? I was watching them, but never bid... ::)
Hell no. With my fully de-resticted bike. I'll be holding on to mine.
You noted that you just got the carbs, manifolds & airboxes...so I was just curious if you recently got them off eBay, as a bunch of SP stuff was just sold there. Maybe I misunderstood ??? Did you mean you just installed all that stuff?
Glad your happy with the pistons. They should work perfectly if/when you need them!! ;)
Quote from: jcsnook on March 07, 2013, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: KAGE25x on March 06, 2013, 04:03:35 AM
Thanks Jim, I received mine yesterday.
Awesome, Hopefully I will not need them for a while.
I don't know though, I just got a
set of SPR 36's, air box and mani's.
So she's full blown from here on out.
Quote from: KAGE25x on March 07, 2013, 04:39:59 AM
Quote from: jcsnook on March 06, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Were those the ones just sold on eBay? I was watching them, but never bid... ::)
Hell no. With my fully de-resticted bike. I'll be holding on to mine.
You noted that you just got the carbs, manifolds & airboxes...so I was just curious if you recently got them off eBay, as a bunch of SP stuff was just sold there. Maybe I misunderstood ??? Did you mean you just installed all that stuff?
Glad your happy with the pistons. They should work perfectly if/when you need them!! ;)
Yes I did just recently get all the SP parts off of eBay. I thought you saw a set of the Wossner pistons being sold already on eBay ????
Hi Jim, have sent you a couple of PM's about my order. ;)
and me ! just read this thread to see what im getting !
look good ,thanks for all the work Jim and for selling me your spare set .
let me know you have received everything ?
Wullie / Gary / Chris,
Yes I got your PM's, emails & payments Gents...Thank you very much!
I worked closely today with a Race Shop owner buddy of mine who does a lot international shipping of M/C parts. He walked me thru all the nuances of how to save you guys on the receiving end...all the VAT and other taxes. What I've done on these first three sets going out is remove all the original packaging so it's believable that these are USED MOTORCYCLE PARTS. I've wrapped the pistons in newspaper and put all the small parts in an envelope and packaged everything in a plain brown box with peanuts and/or air bags, and taped the shit out of the boxes :o I then reduced the values and sent them as gifts.
He told me you guys would appreciate all this ;D That you don't care about the boxes and paper wrappings! You'll get your Wossner sticker tho... ;)
It saved me some shipping costs on my end too, so I can refund you guys a few bucks! :P
Or as a sample for testing purposes .
Quote from: Neal on March 09, 2013, 01:49:07 AM
Or as a sample for testing purposes .
Good one, Neal! ;) ;D
Well, I checked the USPS website, and it looks like a couple of the piston kits have cleared customs in the Great Britain and Canada. I see a failed delivery attempt in Australia, and a package being processed by customs in South Africa. Paul, I hope your strikes don't hold things up?
Fingers crossed that taxes/fees/VAT etc all all overlooked! O:-)
If you dont put a contact phone number for the buyer down on items coming into Australia they send it straight back. Mind you if there is a problem and they need to contact you they dont anyway they just leave it on the floor, customs here are pricks >:(
It say's it's already cleared customs and an attempt to deliver was made yesterday, but failed. Another attempt was to be made today. Chris gave me his phone number, but for some reason, I put my number on the shipping label/customs papers instead of his? ???
Lane...let me know if you got your box today 8)
You'll be the first to know mate.
this is what mine says
International Parcels
Payment of charges - Item being held, addressee being notified
March 20, 2013, 4:38 am
GREAT BRITAIN
I see that as well Gary? Hope it's not horrible :-\ The value of the contents was only $84, so hopefully it won't be...
its the post office that are after the charges !
i cant see it being for much then if it was $84
Anyone install them yet? how about some dyno before and after data? :)
Gary is probably gonna be the first one to install a set and dyno tune them in his bike. Hopefully he will post his results. :)
bike is book'd in on the dyno on saturday
but i wont get the bike back from the exhaust maker till then !
wont get chance to run it in will i so im running std pistons this time but will put them in soon
as its no big thing now as i have o ring barrels
Got a card in the mail yesterday Jim.
I should be able to pick the parcel up tomorrow arvo.
£24.61 i had to pay customs the robbing gets !
get mine tomorrow morning by parcel force .
wullie got charged 18 quid ,6 pounds less than me !
unless he is winding me up ?
Quote from: eyrey1 on March 21, 2013, 06:14:48 PM
£24.61 i had to pay customs the robbing gets !
get mine tomorrow morning by parcel force .
wullie got charged 18 quid ,6 pounds less than me !
unless he is winding me up ?
Wullie is like that >:D
Hope to get my bike on the dyno soon too...after installing my extra Martin77 ported top end, and SUGO CDI. I'm also doing the o-ring conversion. Mine will also be dyno'ed with stock pistons and rings, as the pistons that came with the top end looked fine to use short term. Once it's all sorted I'll pull the motor and go thru it completely and install my new SP crank. :)
If anyone else in the states, or nearby, wants the o-ring mod done to their barrels, let me know. I'm paying for a jig to hold my barrels in a CNC machine to have the grooves cut. I doubt that it will be of much use for anything else but that. Cutting the grooves is the easy (cheap) part, making the jig is what was time consuming.
got them today thanks mate ! spot on !
looks like wullie got the wossner paper mine was in tampa bay times or something
Glad you're happy with them Gary.
Sorry, the first couple that were boxed up were with my buddy that owns the race shop. It was his idea to not send anything that would identify these as new parts, so he tossed, or re-used, all of the manufacturer items...paper, box, etc. When I was boxing the others at home I didn't think anything of folding the paper the pistons were wrapped in, and stuffing it in the envelope.
If it's a big deal for ya Gary, I can mail you the paper that my pistons are wrapped in when I get them. Wossner has to make me 3 more as I sold one of my extra sets.
Also, if I didn't peel the sticker off the outside of your box and stick it to one of the plastic bags that holds the rings...here it is. It's got part numbers and clearances, etc on it.
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thanks jim i would like a box so if i sell it or re sell the pistons if not used i can show the new owner or look better on e bay !
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sorry new aprilia pipes ,havent got pics of tzr ones yet .
I've got you a box already broke down and in an envelope with Wullie's and Ian's. I just need to get to the post to drop it off.
Those APE pipes are a thing of beauty! Nice welds. Where did you get them?
THE PIPES ARE from kenny at tsa
he has done some for the 3xv aswell i was supposed to get them both dynoed today but had 7 inches of snow last night
so had to cancel it !
both pipes are a first for the aprilia and the 3xv just need to dyno them and he will then be selling them !
usually his pipes are very very good !
Quote from: eyrey1 on March 23, 2013, 05:49:12 PM
THE PIPES ARE from kenny at tsa
he has done some for the 3xv aswell i was supposed to get them both dynoed today but had 7 inches of snow last night
so had to cancel it !
both pipes are a first for the aprilia and the 3xv just need to dyno them and he will then be selling them !
usually his pipes are very very good !
Really nice pipes eyrey1, what would it cost for a set for the 3XV?
i dont know yet zoom zoom as they need to be tested on the dyno !
i will post up details /dyno graph info when they have been tested !
but if they are anything like his rd lc ,ypvs, or vj23 pipes they will be very very good
not a bad price aswell .
pm him zoom zoom he is on this forum as kenny.
thanks eyrey1 i will do that .
these are his vj23 race pipes
The red trace is Lomas pipes, the blue is the Sugayas, and green is the new TSA pipes from Kenny. http://www.twostrokeaddicts.co.uk/
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rgv250.co.uk%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26amp%3Bmodule%3Dattach%26amp%3Bsection%3Dattach%26amp%3Battach_rel_module%3Dpost%26amp%3Battach_id%3D28363&hash=e14f158466ddb29252fbceb8829dfeaed330880b)
That is a beautiful graph - just what you expect when you do a mod .
My pair of Wossner piston kits arrived yesterday. ;D They look really nice/well made in the flesh. 8)
Jim
got all my stuff today
thanks for your help
pistons look fantastic
paul
hi all ,got my pistons today,just need to sort lab seal on crank out,seems a bit loose,then will have to put all together and see how it goes.many thanks jim ;)
I'm glad you're all happy with them. ;D
I got mine the other day too Jim.
Didn't open them mind you cause i am currently moving house and they are all boxed and wrapped so nice and if i have to box any more shit i'm gonna lose it!
Thanks again.
What did the basic cost come to without shipping and what is the minimum order for the next run?
Has anybody run a set yet?
Quote from: Crank on April 05, 2013, 08:22:58 AM
What did the basic cost come to without shipping and what is the minimum order for the next run?
Has anybody run a set yet?
For the first run, each piston kit was $150 USD. That included piston, (2) rings, wrist pin, and (2) wrist pin clips. I suspect that future orders will cost about the same, so two (2) piston kits is going to run $300 USD before shipping.
I do not think there is a minimum order, as they have already done all the engineering to reproduce them. If your interested in a pair, let me know soon as a member in Sri Lanka is also inquiring about a pair, and I may be ordering for him, and for myself...as I need to replace my set that I sold.
I'd be very interested in a set if the shipping to the UK isnt too prohibitive.
Shipping to the UK averaged $45 USD. I removed the contents from the manufacturers box and pack everything safely in a plain brown, label it as "Used Motorcycle Parts" with a relatively low value. That keeps your VAT, customs and other fees to a minimum. Only drawback is you don't get the box. I've broken down and mailed a few guys in the UK their boxes separately in a large envelope for and additional $20.
Those who are wanting a pair should PM me for deposit details.
Quote from: jcsnook on April 07, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
.....Only drawback is you don't get the box. I've broken down and mailed a few guys in the UK their boxes separately in a large envelope for and additional $20.
It's a large, sturdy box too! :o ;) Thanks for taking the time & trouble to post 'em over, Jim. 8)
yeh nice wossner box got mine today off wullie jim cheers
Glad to help fellas... 8)
got my wossners today, :)
has anyone run them yet ?
hey, how come some ppl got 2 stickers with theirs? and i only got 1?? :(
jokin aside, will be 2 or 3 weeks yet before mine's up and running.... :)
so wullie gets a box, AND 2 stickers?? :o :(
wullie got 3 stickers ! he told me
i only got 2 and my box
The reason the boxes were not sent was to save those on the receiving end of the "used motorcycle parts", all the VAT and other associated taxes and fees that come with receiving new parts in the mail. ::) Wullie paid me to mail him the broke down boxes separately in an envelope. I will gladly mail you your empty box if you want to pay for it...it was about $20 USD. ?:-|
As far as stickers...whatever was in the box is what was mailed. I have no use for a "stash" or stockpile of Wossner stickers. If there were two in the box, two were mailed, if there was one in the box, one was mailed. ??? I don't recall sending anyone three stickers, but maybe they were stuck together? Most people got only one...
I do need to order more pistons, as I ended up selling the spares I bought for myself, so I can gladly ask for a hand full of extras if you feel you were slighted :P I can mail them with your box if you ya want that too 8)
Man...you guys are hard to please :-[
Jim
Don't be discouraged. You did well to arrange all what you did.
Next time tell us you're organizing a wossner sticker for $300 and with it comes 2 boxes and 2 3xv pistons, and if you're lucky, a free sticker. The problem with modern day consumerism is people look more to the extras than the actual item they've bought. It's not our fault, we have been programmed by marketing scams and advertising, its not the packaging and free stuff you are buying. I am just grateful they come with rings, circlips and pin.
Jim,i think you misunderstand my (English) sense of humour mate!! ;D
i'm prob having more of a dig at wullie TBH(he's scottish you know) ;)
ja, and i'm getting too philisophical. we've had 2 of our rhino poached these last 2 weeks. i am pissed as hell!
Quote from: Paul on May 17, 2013, 09:51:12 AM
ja, and i'm getting too philisophical. we've had 2 of our rhino poached these last 2 weeks. i am pissed as hell!
Poached? Those bastards. >:( Are you allowed to hunt them down?
Let me guess...they killed it and cut the horn off? Probably sold it to Japan for some sort of aphrodisiac? That pisses me off too...
Hi Jim
Rhino are protected by CITIES. Endangered species. You need a special permit to remove a problem animal.
Bastards poached, horns hacked off. It's not pretty.
Yes they end up in china via mocambique or Lesotho.
Helps those little men with their little brains and little willy problems. Pathetic.
If I shoot a poacher I'll end up in prison as unless he is a threat to me it's murder. Yet if a poacher sees me before I see him, pow, he'll drop me on the spot.
It's a hopeless situation and it won't stop now.
Quote from: Paul on May 18, 2013, 08:25:43 AM
Hi Jim
Rhino are protected by CITIES. Endangered species. You need a special permit to remove a problem animal.
Bastards poached, horns hacked off. It's not pretty.
Yes they end up in china via mocambique or Lesotho.
Helps those little men with their little brains and little willy problems. Pathetic.
If I shoot a poacher I'll end up in prison as unless he is a threat to me it's murder. Yet if a poacher sees me before I see him, pow, he'll drop me on the spot.
It's a hopeless situation and it won't stop now.
Yes, it's truly a shame. Such a cool animal to see in the wild.
Shoot first ask questions later Paul >:D
Quote from: Paul on May 18, 2013, 08:25:43 AM
Hi Jim
Rhino are protected by CITIES. Endangered species. You need a special permit to remove a problem animal.
Bastards poached, horns hacked off. It's not pretty.
Yes they end up in china via mocambique or Lesotho.
Helps those little men with their little brains and little willy problems. Pathetic.
If I shoot a poacher I'll end up in prison as unless he is a threat to me it's murder. Yet if a poacher sees me before I see him, pow, he'll drop me on the spot.
It's a hopeless situation and it won't stop now.
Hi Paul
Is it not possible to put your Rhinos to sleep, saw the horn off then let them roam with no horn, so that the poachers won't kill them? Or maybe fit a replica fibreglass horn.....that would piss the poachers off! :-)
Appreciate the suggestions
You have to apply for a permit to de-horn, and that's where the trouble starts. Our departments are full of corrupt self serving twats. We are meeting a documentary film maker next week. The world needs to know how bad it is and that no one can be trusted.
When the poachers find a hornless rhino they kill it.
We are working with organized crime division.
This thread has been properly hijacked. Sorry Jim.
LOL...no worries Paul! :)
I'm sure that title of the thread won't stop those interested in pistons from posting. Me being a hunter, am finding this portion of the thread very interesting. Please keep me updated on how you save your rhinos. Even I think there are some animals best admired in the wild rather than hanging on your wall.
Or up your nose to cure your lack of a hard-on.
The one suspect who was caught and we have evidence I already out of jail on $500 bail!
It's not just SA where this is a problem. There have been a load of thefts from museums in the UK and the Zoos have had to increase security after a couple of close encounters (yep, that poaching Rhino horn from Zoos in the UK FFS).
My mum's boyfriend helps out at the Monmouth Regimental Museum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_Regimental_Museum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_Regimental_Museum)) (you've been there Paul) and they had an old Rhino head on the wall that one of the officers "bagged" back in the Boer War. They were going to have to either spend £40K on improving security or sell it. It was falling apart but they got £55K for it at auction from some Far East bidder.
Here is a story from Eire where they took four heads http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22200051 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22200051)
The only way it will stop is if the guys out in the Far East stop thinking it gives them wood or there are no more Rhinos. It's 'king sad :-[
Sad indeed, to think that a species could be wiped out like that. Whales will probably be next...
Why can't they just rub one out to some porn... O:-)
Amazing stuff there yan
I'm going to place another piston order with Wossner in case anyone else is interested in getting in on it. If you are, PM me.
Cheers, Jim
Some videos of Gary's (eyrey1) bike running a set of the new Wossner's
http://s1196.photobucket.com/user/Carver101/media/013-1.mp4.html
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa411%2FCarver101%2Fth_013-1.jpg&hash=d9fec1d88f771c5adce8b94e5eeef14a4395c8f3) (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa411/Carver101/013-1.mp4)
http://s1196.photobucket.com/user/Carver101/media/014-3.mp4.html
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1196.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa411%2FCarver101%2Fth_014-3.jpg&hash=faa10d5369ee90d8da8d7641a71735ed11038ed7) (http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa411/Carver101/014-3.mp4)
Sounds great Gary! You've got some "stuff" in that garage of yours don't ya! ;)
the garage needs a good tydy its because i had 2 bikes in bits at the same time ,
now ive got all the stuff for the aprilia back i can put the engine back in and pull them out and tydy it up !
Quote from: eyrey1 on August 10, 2013, 02:14:41 AM
the garage needs a good tydy its because i had 2 bikes in bits at the same time ,
now ive got all the stuff for the aprilia back i can put the engine back in and pull them out and tydy it up !
;D ;) ;D ;) ;D you should see mine... :-[ ::)
Quote from: Paul on May 20, 2013, 11:58:17 AM
Amazing stuff there yan
Can't say we'd miss the Welsh ;D ;D Just joking Paul ;)
Quote from: eyrey1 on May 16, 2013, 10:41:46 PM
wullie got 3 stickers ! he told mei only got 2 and my box
Just to clear this little misunderstanding up, I received 3 boxes & 3 stickers from Jim, so just kept the 1 sticker & box for myself. :D
Got some more pistons in the mail yesterday...so I will be checking postage rates and letting everyone who pre-ordered know what their balance is... :D
Sascha... PM me if you read this message. I've got your pistons. I've emailed and PM'ed you already! ???
thank you jim quick and no messing about as usuall got my ups info and i will be watching the tracking
thanks mate !
Quote from: eyrey1 on August 18, 2013, 09:00:50 PM
thank you jim quick and no messing about as usuall got my ups info and i will be watching the tracking
thanks mate !
Gary, I mailed it USPS (United States Postal Service), not UPS. Much cheaper that way...
Just so you know where to check the tracking.
arnt they the same firm ?
i got an email with tracking and everything on there
if anything like last time i will have them in a week ish
DHL seem to have the best and quickest service
i had something from china sent and i had it in my hands deliverd in 36 hours !
but they are not cheap
Quote from: eyrey1 on August 19, 2013, 01:05:35 AM
arnt they the same firm ?
i got an email with tracking and everything on there
if anything like last time i will have them in a week ish
DHL seem to have the best and quickest service
i had something from china sent and i had it in my hands deliverd in 36 hours !
but they are not cheap
No, UPS is United Parcel Service - Privately run. USPS is Govt run. Hard to believe that they are cheaper, but wow...WAY cheaper!
Jim,
Pistons turned up safe and sound this morning, very happy with them.
Thanks for the time and effort put in to making this happen.
- Andy
Edit - No customs charges either 8)
Quote from: Hendo on September 07, 2013, 10:03:59 AM
Jim,
Pistons turned up safe and sound this morning, very happy with them.
Thanks for the time and effort put in to making this happen.
- Andy
Edit - No customs charges either 8)
Awesome Andrew!! That worked out great! Happy to help where I can...paying it forward as it were. The help I've received on this forum for my 3XV project is more then repayment for these efforts.
If anyone else needs them, more can be ordered at any time.
got anymore jim ?
ive done it again !
only need 1 more again its the other one that went this time
so still got a new one but want to rebuild it with 2 new ones and get them both plated to suit them !
so have you got one please ?
Tough break Gary :(
Don't really have any spares, I only have the pair for myself left. I can order one from Wossner for you, and whatever they charge me for one piston, I will charge you.
I won't make you wait for it, I can send you one of mine, I just don't want to get caught like I did on the first order. I sold my pair that I got for the bulk purchase price, only to replace them at a higher cost because of a price increase and a smaller order.
PM me and I'll let you know what Wossner says after I email them on Monday. Hell...I may as well order a few extra sets and either have them on hand t sell, or sell them eBay.
thanks jim let me know the price please ?
Ja Jim
I'll be installing my rebuilt Wossner motor in a months time.
If all goes well ill order 4 more and sell my oem spare pistons on eBay.
Don't want to mislead you as its not a promise but its almost certain.
At the risk of sounding negative,(and i really don't want to be)i wouldn't recommend using the Wossners for racing,they seem to scuff quite easily under racing conditions.
after running them in, i checked the top end,both pistons were slightly scuffed in various places,as were both cylinders,so i removed the scuff marks/high spots from the pistons,and had both cylinders honed out,and had the clearances checked.
this has happened on 3 occasions now,first time after running in,the other 2 after race meetings.
one of the pistons even had a slight smear up against the lower ring,trapping the ring in its groove(partial seize?)
FWIW,i was running super unleaded with Silkolene Pro 2 @30:1,B9EV plugs,both mains were on the rich side,everything came out nice and oily on stripdown.
:o
Hmmmm
Maybe too soft and alloy not mixed well? Expanding erratically?
Are you running a thermostat?
I will do a strip down after run in and put findings here. I have only started my bike. Not finished yet.
pics of r/h piston & piston pin,the pin was way too tight,had to hammer it out,not good... >:(
Ey up Ian,
What bore clearance were you running them at?
Just out of interest.
Dan
same bore clearance as when i ran the stock pistons(got it written down somewhere!)
l/h piston pin came out nice & easy,so why would the r/h side take so much effort to remove? ???
Are you still running the one sleeved cyl, Ian?
It's just that I think the forged wossners need a bit more clearance (0.06mm for the forged versus 0.05mm for the stock pistons).
I noticed on my SP pistons that there were a few shiny areas on the ring lands (much like those shown on your pistons). I had a look in the TZ workshop manual and when the bikes were running AVGAS the clearance was set at 0.045mm - 0.055mm. When the fuel changed to unleaded in 1997 the clearance increased to 0.06-0.07mm. I'm having my barrels replated by Aptec at the moment and have given them a 4dp 'B' size piston and asked them to set the clearance to 0.06-0.07mm based on it being in the 4tw workshop manual.
I'm wondering if the stock clearance of 0.05mm is too tight for hard use on unleaded fuel.
The early sugo kitted Sp's would have run on AVGAS for sure.
Dan
forged pistons generally run 0.001" more clearance.
Not heard of any differences between unleaded & leaded pistons though......... ???
Back in the air cooled days those road bikes would run either fuel without any problems
yes i am Warwick,the scuffed piston came from the lined cylinder,the engine was running ok though.... ::)
Tz leaded pistons were larger than the unleaded pistons.
Check this thread:
http://www.tz250.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1714.html
96 was the last year of the leaded tz and in 97 the piston sizes changed. I believe the fuel change warranted the larger piston to bore clearance.
Dan
the way i see it is, if i'd given extra clearance for the Wossners,wouldn't that have then made the cylinders useless for stock pistons? :-\
Quote from: Kingy38 on October 28, 2013, 10:01:12 PM
yes i am Warwick,the scuffed piston came from the lined cylinder,the engine was running ok though.... ::)
A lined cylinder would expand less than a plated cylinder (or rather at a different rate?) which could explain the scuffing? Together with the wossners also expanding differently than OEM?
Quote from: ybk on October 29, 2013, 08:08:59 AM
Quote from: Kingy38 on October 28, 2013, 10:01:12 PM
yes i am Warwick,the scuffed piston came from the lined cylinder,the engine was running ok though.... ::)
A lined cylinder would expand less than a plated cylinder (or rather at a different rate?) which could explain the scuffing? Together with the wossners also expanding differently than OEM?
If the linered cyl has fared worse than the plated one it would certainly be worth giving that some thought as a possible aggravating factor, Ian? I'm not a metallurgist so wouldn't know for sure, but I've never felt 'comfortable' with the idea of lining cyls designed to be run plated myself. Dan's suggestion may well explain the rest of it? I've never had such problems myself though so can't comment from experience.
I've been on vacation, but am back now...and am reading these new posts with interest/concern. Sorry for your issues Ian, and I am hoping it's not a defect in the product.
I'm certainly no expert on these matters, but it sounds like some different variables may have contributed to this, but I am not ruling anything out as of now. The clearance specs were shown on the decals attached to the box for those of you that got boxes. Those that did not, I should have applied the decal to the bag that the rings came in. I also posted it on this thread...early on. I'm sure that these pistons, rings, specs, etc. were designed for a Nickel Silicon Carbide coated barrel as well.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi721.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww216%2Fjcsnook%2FYamaha%2520TZR%2520250%2FIMG_2507_zps7483cc0a.jpg&hash=f787535c0244ce8193fdd22e60ec21d7db611d21)
I've not run my set yet, and have not heard from anyone else about any issues, other than Gary but I think his may have been a setup issue. So I'm hoping this is an isolated event, but let me know if this is something that I need to get back to WossnerUSA about. I may have to hook you up directly with them, as I'm sure they will have lots of questions that only you can answer.
If you have a barrel with a cast iron sleeve in it then you have to run greater clearances , some people sleeve their barrels thinking it is a cheap fix but in fact you are effing up 20+ years of progress that is nikasol plating .
Had a mate seize many times on sleeved barrels on a bike that won the championship before he f up the barrels .
I remember reading that Nicasil allows a faster mean speed of the piston than steel. I'll dig out the Practical Sportsbike article and post up the numbers.
I've given Jim an email to add me to an order for a new pair and 4 boxes of rings
Yes...so anyone else interested in getting Wossner's please chime in. The bigger the order, the better the per piston kit price will be.
Hey Jim depending on timing, I may be keen for another set - as I would like a pair in my spares bin. Super happy with them and would strongly prefer to USD them again when the bike gets rebuilt down the track. :D
I'm keen
Any idea on cost and time frame?
Any news jcsnook?
Sorry, haven't check with them yet. I was kind of waiting for more interest, but it may not happen. I'll email them Monday for some current pricing and let you and Paul know...Murray too if still in the market
I'm maybe interested in a pair. I am also interested in being your European distributor as there is an increasing number of guys wanting them in EU and we get hit twice for import duties into the USA and then back to the EU.
I don't want to make a penny from this. You take the money for the bits, they ship half (or whatever) of the order to me, I post them to the guys in Europe for cost, they just Paypal me the delivery costs.
Paul and Dan will vouch for me. I don't want to make money, I just want to stop paying tax to Governments.
Have a think, I'm cool either way.
I may be interested, but dependent on price. Do they solve the problem with the ring pins wearing?
Quote from: 4l04ever on June 08, 2014, 01:21:39 PM
I may be interested, but dependent on price. Do they solve the problem with the ring pins wearing?
They should I suspect, they are a forged piston, not cast as the OEM - much stronger. Not certain if that makes a hill of beans difference in the ring peg, but as of now, no one has reported a ring peg issue. They have however, not been running in any bikes for many years/many miles as they are all new. The ring peg does appear to be set deep in the piston tho :)
Quote from: yanw on June 08, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
I'm maybe interested in a pair. I am also interested in being your European distributor as there is an increasing number of guys wanting them in EU and we get hit twice for import duties into the USA and then back to the EU.
I don't want to make a penny from this. You take the money for the bits, they ship half (or whatever) of the order to me, I post them to the guys in Europe for cost, they just Paypal me the delivery costs.
Paul and Dan will vouch for me. I don't want to make money, I just want to stop paying tax to Governments.
Have a think, I'm cool either way.
Yanw, I'll discuss with Wossner what is involved with that, I'm not sure how they handle it. I had to run the distributorship thru a buddies motorcycle transmission business R&D Motorsports.
I don't think there are double tax/import duties being paid tho. As I understand it...pistons are made in Germany and shipped to Wossner USA in California (no import tax, [not to me anyway]). They are then distributed to me with nothing more than a shipping charge which is usually minimal (I don't get charged an import tax on items shipped to me from California). I ship them out USPS, as a gift, with a low value and if requested, no insurance. That should be the only import duties/tax you should be seeing?
However I agree with you that if the pistons can avoid the trip from EU to USA, then back to EU, it makes sense. However last time I asked if a local in Germany could come pick them up direct from the factory...I was told no. They would only ship the pistons to me, the dealer. Maybe you and I can work something out and I can send you a large order at once and save on fees that way? Regardless, I'll ask and let you know.
Any idea of price per piston kit?
Got a response today from Wossner USA on current pricing. A slight increase in the beginning of this year:
"Dear Wossner Pistons dealers,
Thank you for your continued support of Wossner Pistons.
There has been a slight increase in piston pricing due to the push in Europe to convert to clean renewable energy sources. Because of this, our manufacturing facility in Germany has experienced a nearly 100% increase in monthly electricity cost. In order to maintain a level of profitability, a small price increase was required to help offset the major increase in manufacturing cost we now face."So, price per piston kit will be $165 USD. So a pair (2 kits) will cost $330 USD plus shipping. Only a slight increase from last time I checked for Gary when they were $162.50 per kit.
They do have a minimum order quantity of four (4) pistons. I suspect, like last time, if we order more than ten (10), I suspect the per kit price may drop slightly, but am not sure by how much. There does not seem to be that many people needing them as of now anyway.
Same as last time, I'd need a 50% deposit to secure your order (Wossner requires that from me). So let me know if you're interested.
Quote from: yanw on June 08, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
I'm maybe interested in a pair. I am also interested in being your European distributor as there is an increasing number of guys wanting them in EU and we get hit twice for import duties into the USA and then back to the EU.
I don't want to make a penny from this. You take the money for the bits, they ship half (or whatever) of the order to me, I post them to the guys in Europe for cost, they just Paypal me the delivery costs.
Paul and Dan will vouch for me. I don't want to make money, I just want to stop paying tax to Governments.
Have a think, I'm cool either way.
Yanw,
I also got an answer to your question. Does not sound like any savings to be had there...
"Jim,
In order for them to go direct to a person in Europe like that, They would have to be purchased direct from Wossner GmbH. The cost would be in Euro's and increase substantially from what your currently paying.
Thanks"
that still works out cheaper than i paid jim
as pound is stronger ! £194 a pair at $330 thats allot cheaper than yam ones at £150 each
but there is shipping on the wossners to the uk and maybe import if your very unlucky
Jim - if I wanted some pistons made what info do you need from me ? Can email if you want . It's nealgreyplumba@hotmail.com
Thanks
I got a question here............
If you order and buy from Wossner Gmbh direct from UK there will be no duty or VAT (EEC??) on entry into UK. Then split order and ship balance to USA.
Currently you will pay shipping to USA of X kg then shipping to UK X/2 kg for example.
would it not be cheaper to ship all of order within Europe first then split and ship to USA
just a thought.
That is clever jools. Good idea.
Up here for thinking down there for dancing as my old muckas used to say ;)
Not sure jools? I interpret their response as it would cost more to buy them directly from Wossner Gmbh, then buying them from Wossner USA?
I checked the last invoice I got from Wossner for 8 piston kits and they didn't charge me any shipping. Maybe it's already built into the price of the piston kits - not sure, but I did not get charged for shipping from Germany to California, nor charged for shipping from California to Florida. Only on my initial order of 24 piston kits (large box) was I charged for shipping from California to Florida and it was only $26.05 USD. Not significant really. If you split that out among the 12 buyers it's $2.17 additional.
Neal, I'll email you directly...but I provided them with a sample piston to duplicate. That would be my recommendation.
Jim
If that is the case then stick with it. Not only that your price into the USA will be VAT free.
I was just looking at the logical option, which as you prove doesn't necessarily pan out.
Thats not bad shipping - when RSC wanted US$45 to send 8 crank shims to Oz !!
I can typically ship a pair of pistons kits anywhere, via USPS, for around $45 USD. Maybe less if you want to get risky and play around with values and insurance.
Plus....from my experience, it appears shipping from the UK to the US, is much higher than shipping from the US to the UK?