So about 18 months ago I decided what I really needed was another bike in the garage and set about finding a project. I had heard the words "Barn Find" a lot, its something that I think would be interesting to do. When I was living in the countryside I did ask around a bit but with no luck. Looking for a bit of a fixer-up project I found an interesting Italian and an old Brit that hadn't been used for a while "Garage Finds". Negotiations began but ultimately someone else beat me to them.
I was chatting to friend at work, a RC8 rider (not of this parish) about my search and he told me he had a mate that used to ride and might still have a bike somewhere, it would be a crashed but original model Fireblade. So a few emails went back and forth between them about the bike and then I was introduced. The bike in question was not a Fireblade, that went to the great scrapyard in the sky. The bike in his garage was the bike he used before the Fireblade and before he gave up biking. He always intended to do something with it, but never got round to it.
The information I had on it was basic. A Yamaha TZR250 on a R reg. Now I've always had a soft spot for the TZR and a quick calculation with my limited knowledge put it at a 3XV or at worse a 3MA model. In my opinion the 3XV model, the VTwin, is one of the best looking bikes ever made. The 3MA is a reverse cylinder engined model and is also quite good looking. They also made the 2MA and 1KT models the 2MA is the official UK import, the 1KT being the same but the Japanese home market model. Both are ugly.
So me and Stretchie (not of this parish) turn up with a trailer and the garage door is opened. Now when I said the information was basic, it was also slightly wrong. Yes it was a Yamaha TZR250 but it was on a F reg and it was a 2MA. Disappointing. But the bike was duly loaded and driven down the M4 to BaP's (not of this parish) for temporary storage.
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The story of the bike was it was the previous owners first bike and had been well used. The front fairings were lost after he found the bulkhead of a transit van. Though thats not the only time it had found the floor, it had been repaired and continued service until the rider upgraded to a Fireblade. He parked the TZR in the garage with the intention of doing something with it at a future date, but as the years rolled on nothing happened but the occasional start up. He eventually wrote the Blade off and decided not to ride anymore, and interest in the old TZR faded so that the occasional start stopped and it sat there never to see the light of day.
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It was a couple of months before I saw it again due to housing issues but when I did I could see its potential. I decided that a bit of fresh petrol and some air in the tyres would have it though an MOT in a flash. No not really, the bike hadn't been used since 1994 or at least that was its last tax disc. It had crash damage on both sides an interesting alarm was adorning the rear of the loom and the fairing that was on it was held together with wood screws. The brakes surprisingly still operated slightly but the forks are pitted. Sitting on it the suspension at the rear feels non existent.
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So my plan is simple. Restore it, reuse what I can, replace what I can't. Get it back on the road. I'm going to make a few subtle modifications to it but nothing serious, I don't plan on a big bore or changing the swing arm or covering the fairings in fur. I want it to be a restored TZR250 2MA and any help or advise would be gratefully received. Let just hope I haven't taken on to big a project...
While it was sitting in my garage for months on end the more I looked at it the more I wanted to ride it. So I spent some time tracking down parts. It took me 4 months to get a set of plastics. Traveled to London one night to pick them up, a full set, no real damage but in need of paint. I even bought two "rust free" tanks on eBay, but more on that later.
Occasionally I would move it around a bit to see what I could spot on it that was in need. Basically the obvious missing fairings needed sorting. The handlebars, leavers and switch gear had crash damage, plus there was a nice dent in the tank. The wiring was a mess the more I looked at it. The throttle was stuck as was the fuel tap and the chain would flap in the wind. Forks were pitted so I presume the seals are gone, and the brakes need a strip and rebuild. Other than that it would be consumables.
There were two keys for the bike, the seat and ignition were on one, the tank on the other. Putting the key in the ignition was much like throwing a pasty up Park Street so for that reason and the fact I feel two keys would let the bike down a replacement lockset went on the list. The list was getting longer.
Anyway at some point and I don't know when exactly I made the decision to go the full distance on it and fully strip it down to powdercoat the frame and build it back up from there.
So the strip down begins.
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Tank off reviled the dirt on the inside of the frame and on the engine, plus the overall condition of the bike. It also showed how small the bike is. the amount of space under there is amazing.
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Next it was the air box. The screws holding the lid on did their best to delay me and at one point thought that I wouldn't get them to cooperate. But in the end they relented and I was presented with a very clean air filter.
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That promptly disintegrated as soon as I touched it... Is this an omen?
Great project.
Rescuing a stroker from a slow death in a cold, moisty barn is a very nobel thing to do :)
Good luck with the rebuild!
Well it is worrying when the first thing you touch falls apart in you hands. But having cleared off the filer (new one going on the list) the inside of the air box looks quite clean.
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Can't say the rest of the bike is that clean once the box was removed. It actually took me 5 minutes to locate the screws for the air box clips under that amount of dirt and grime.
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The plan now is to drop the engine out. So first remove the exhausts. Fearing the worse from my experience with SV front down pipes I was expecting the header mounting bolts to be seized or worse. Imagine my surprise when they came off so easily. I think it might have something to do with the tar that was coating them. I suspect the exhaust gaskets may have been leaking.
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However the rear mounting bolt did complain and that had to be cut off. The exhaust is only actually held on with 3 bolts 2 in the front 1 in the rear. And the rear mount is also a rubber damper. I expect that they didn't look like mine do now back in 1987. A pair are also now on the list.
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Once the exhausts were off I could get a better look at them. They are standard exhausts. But I think they have had a hard time. The cans have been wrapped in metal that has been tack welded on. I presume this was to hide crash damage. As for the header section, it has been repaired at some point.
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Now as I am aiming for a standard machine I need to think about what to do with these pipes. If they are still available from Yamaha I think they might be a little on the expensive side. As are some aftermarket pipes I've seen, though they will need rejeting no doubt. But these pipes might also be expensive to repair. Alas I have some time to decide what to do with them as they are near the last things that need putting back on the bike, but if anyone has any suggestions feel free.
i had martin or kenny make me some headers more modern with the springs ,slip fit type and the pipe was about 6 inches long
so i cut the rotten top 6inch 's off and gas welded the new parts on ,then wire brush the rest down and paint the same colour !
i think i paid 50 quid for both pipes and springs and the other bits for the springs.
or just get some pipes froim kenny or martin on here ! they are a good price and look ace
hth Gary
Thats a filthy engine :(
Quote from: rvt2002 on January 22, 2013, 05:27:18 AM
Thats a filthy engine :(
yup, looks like that bike was never cleaned and had a hard life!!
Nice project. Be good to see it all come back to a fresh condition. Keep up with the pics as it progresses :)
Quote from: eyrey1 on January 22, 2013, 03:16:49 AM
i had martin or kenny make me some headers more modern with the springs ,slip fit type and the pipe was about 6 inches long
so i cut the rotten top 6inch 's off and gas welded the new parts on ,then wire brush the rest down and paint the same colour !
i think i paid 50 quid for both pipes and springs and the other bits for the springs.
or just get some pipes froim kenny or martin on here ! they are a good price and look ace
hth Gary
I think its more then the headers that need looking at, overall the pipes don't look very good, not sure if trying to save them will be worth it. So Kenny or Martin, is that their usernames, might be worth having a chat with them?
Quote from: Crank on January 22, 2013, 08:13:11 AM
Quote from: rvt2002 on January 22, 2013, 05:27:18 AM
Thats a filthy engine :(
yup, looks like that bike was never cleaned and had a hard life!!
Yeah not sure if it has ever seen a bucket of water. Now don't get me wrong I've never been one for spending my time washing a bike when I can be riding but none of my bikes look that bad, I think its about an inch thick in some places.
As for a hard life, possibly. The clocks show a tad over 18,000 miles.
i've never see it that bad, at least its all preserved in a layer of what looks like greasy gunk
If its any consolation a mate of mine does vapour blasting and says that when the parts are that bad they clean up beautiful. All the crap protects the alloy. I gave him a YL1 motor that was a disgrace and never even washed it first, it came back like new with little effort on his part.
Will save you some of hundreds of pictures I'm taking to assist on reassembly but here are some highlights as it were:
To take the engine out which is the next target it is time to remove anything that connects to the engine. And in this case its the power valve pulleys first on the list. The cables were seized but replacements are to be sourced. Under the cover the seal looks good but like the rest of the bike there is a bit of dirt and rust in there.
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However not all is bad under the covers as this is a very clean looking oil pump.
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Drained the gear box oil which actually looked overfilled in the sight glass. Maybe this was intentional before it was parked up. Then it was draining the coolant. The coolant looked ok actually, so I think the water pump seals are still intact or at least were when the engine was last used. However the expansion tank was empty bar some sludge. Taking the radiator off was fairly straight forward. It looks in good condition however so far no joy in removing the guard. Might look at getting it cleaned up or painted before it goes back on, so I'm open to suggestions on the approach here?
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Then the carbs. Took the throttle cable off of the throttle tube and traced it back to a junction box that feeds the two carbs, the power valve, and the oil pump. Taking the the cables off of the power valve servo looked like it was going to be a bit of a pain so I just removed the servo. Well it needs to come off anyway. And then it was taking the carbs off.
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They don't look to bad a first but then you get to have a closer look at them.
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Hopefully these will clean up. But I'm not disassembling them any further at the moment. I think the plan is to take the engine out next then strip the frame down. Get that painted and reassembled before working on the engine and the carbs before doing the final assembly with the fairings. Well thats the plan anyway...
Get 'er done Squirrly! Nice work!
Looks pretty bad now. but once cleaned and sorted will look good again. nice one squirrel..
go down your local nut and bolt shop and get stainless cap screw for your carbs, soda blast them and take it from there
The plan I have for the carbs is similar to that, but includes me buying a Ultrasonic Cleaner...
So to take the engine out...
Actually quite a simple operation. The engine is held to the frame by a rear mounting bolt and an engine cradle frame. So after locating the bolts many of which were covered by grease/ oil/ dirt/ grime I loosened them all off before removing the cradle.
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With the cradle off I supported the engine with a jack before removing the rear bolt balancing the engine against the frame and jack. And yes the clutch cover needs replacing.
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After that it was just a simple case of lifting the engine onto the bench. The best part was the weight, compared to an SV lump this TZR weighs next to nothing I could practically juggle with it.
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However there is a slight issue. The generator cover looks warped as I'm fairly sure I shouldn't be able to see the alternator.
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Now the engine is out, its a simple task of just unbolting a couple of other little bits. Or is it? Well actually yes. Wasn't to bad, one screw on the chain guard decided it wasn't going to play ball so I cut that off but then couldn't get any grip on the remaining shaft so that remains.
The only other bolts that protested movement were the 4 that held the pillion peg brackets on. All 4 were rusted so much the heads just rounded at the suggestion of a tool. I even tried turning the lights out so they couldn't see me approaching but to no avail. All were cut off and then the studs were easily turned out. The only down side is I now need 2 new pillion peg brackets. Eventually the bike looked like this:
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Coming back to the alarm and the loom. It appears to be some sort of home wiring attempt, not the prettiest and has left a spaghetti mess at the rear. I think that to activate it you needed to flick a switch under the seat, thats about it really as an additional bit of security, an extra kill switch.
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But looking at how it attached to the loom I think I could unwire it quite easily as it appears only to connect to one wire that goes to the CDI. But it looks that there are some additional signs of repair. The indicator fuse has been bypassed from the fuse box to a separate in-line fuse.
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But there was worse at the front. The headlight connector may have been removed somewhat aggressively in the past.
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And there were some other problems with wires that went nowhere and others that were missing.
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So if anyone knows where I can get a replacement loom from do let me know as it would appear that Yamaha can no longer supply me with one.
Hi Fellow,
I have exactly same kind of project started on last Desember here in Finland. Your Yamaha looks just like in my garage one, colour and dirty and all :)
My list been long as well and seems like this is not cheap trial to restore old TZR at all. Espesially after stored it outside over years in rain and snow and what ever weather could be here. But lets move on and finally we both have very special piece of motorbike history to giving us happy moments :)
One special part is missing from my Yamaha, its fairing which is between side panels above rear light. I been looking it all over the internet but didnt find so far. So if some one can give me some tip i appreciate :)
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on January 29, 2013, 01:22:33 AM
So if anyone knows where I can get a replacement loom from do let me know as it would appear that Yamaha can no longer supply me with one.
Hi try scanning the European Ebay sites,I got a 2MA loom recently for £28 from Germany.
TRF - eBay is your best bet, that seams to be the best place to find things in my experience. Good luck with the search.
As for the loom, I have a spare sourced from here (or at least the previous incarnation), but I would prefer a new unused one if anybody can help?
There might be a problem.
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My heart sank when I noticed the metal tab over the lockstop. It sank further when I spotted the lump of weld on the lower yoke.
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I've seen this once before. The tab and weld is a quick fix to a broken lockstop. I've mulled this over for a couple of days then decided the only way to progress is to see whats under it...
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Well the damage matches with the little history I have of it and the other signs on the bike. It appears that in a crash the bottom yoke made somewhat of an impact on the frames lockstop. And to repair the damage a quick fix of a metal tab and a lump of weld was used. The wear to the tab indicates that it was successful as I can only assume from that the bike was continued to be used after. I stuck a tank back on it and did a quick side to side with the bars and I don't see there being a problem getting an MOT.
So I took the tab off.
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And this is what I'm left with.
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It looks like the bottom of the lockstop is dented in and up. I don't think its as bad as it might first appear due to the angle of the photograph, but that needs fixing as does the bottom yoke.
You can just build up the frame tab with weld and clean up the bottom clamp to match. I have repaired frames that had the tab broken off totally and had to fab a new tab then weld it up.
The 'tab' you've taken off is not a repair, it was fitted by Yamaha at the factory...
Quote from: Yatsushiro on January 30, 2013, 07:27:41 PM
The 'tab' you've taken off is not a repair, it was fitted by Yamaha at the factory...
Really? I looked around on the net for photos of other frames and couldn't see any with it on. Also nothing is listed for it on the parts diagram.
Be interested to know why they would have fitted it, seams a little odd?
Just file off the added weld blob from the lump on the bottom yoke and it'll be back to stock (more or less) won't it?. Looks like it has had some lock-stop limiting mechanism cobbled on (the thing you removed) unless that's a stock fitment on the 2MA? The 3MA and 3XV simply bash ali yoke stop against ali frame stop, so I'm assuming that's the same for the 2MA?. If it is an additional fitment, maybe it's an ex-racebike? The stop on the headstock looks a little bit off kilteer in the pics (probs had a knock at some point if the pic is an accurate representation?). If so I'd just file the stop on the yoke so that it equalled out the movement either way. Or just not worry about it at all.
You could check it of course, but If the frame's bent, riding it will tell you...
Of course I may be wrong about the plate around the headstock stop and it may be oe fitment? I've never owned a 2MA so can't say with any certainty.
While I decide how to fix the lockstop, which has been suggested may have been fitted at the factory, I can carry on with other jobs. The first is to ready the frame for Powder Coat.
To do that I need to remove the Deltabox frame cover. After seeking some advise I warmed the cover with a heat gun and carefully slipped a Stanley knife blade under one of the edges.
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Then keeping some heat on it I worked the knife around the plate until finally it came off. I was careful to keep the heat on and would stop trying to lift the plate when it felt as if it was hardening again. When that happened I would stop with the knife and get the heat back on it. And I did this without twisting the knife or lifting it to much in one go and in the end...
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It came off leaving just some sticky back plastic on the frame. After that I swapped to the other side and removed that one to. All I need to do now is clean the plate up.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi153.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs216%2Fsquirrel_hunters_photos%2FProject%2520Garage%2520Find%2FIMG-20130119-01188.jpg&hash=7424c0f6d813903ccd6a4d400b9568fb56c6923a)
I've also taken the forks off.
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And apart.
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The lowers are going for powder coating and while the seals were intact which surprised me the stanchions are a little pitted. I think they are more or less clear on the area of travel but they don't look pretty elsewhere so thats the main reason for splitting them.
The oil was pretty nasty as expected. The dust seals are scrap, one had rusted apart. One of the damper rods was missing a circlip so that goes on the list, but what confused me the most was the white damper rod seat or oil lock that was on one of the stanchions and not the other.
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Eventually I discovered the missing one buried in sludge stuck in its fork lower. So to get that out I transfered it to the stanchion by reinserting and apply a little percussive force so the damper rod seat was more firmly stuck in the stanchion before separating the forks again.
Then to relieve the damper rod seat from the stanchion I reinserted the damper rod and a broom handle into the stanchion. Giving this set up a little gravity assisted tap the broom handle hit the damper rod that is to big to fit though the damper rod seat and so released the seat from the stanchion.
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The stanchions have been wrapped up and sent off to Pitted Forks (http://www.pittedforks.co.uk/) for re-chroming. The only downside to that is there is a 6 week lead time so if things progress then I may have to resort to Plan B to temporarily suspend the bike...
One of the first signs of crash damage I noticed when I picked the bike up apart from the missing fairings was the dent in the tank (unfortunately I can't find a picture of that at the moment). So in the time that the bike was sat in the garage I went about the task of locating a replacement tank. I ended up with two of them via eBay.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi153.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs216%2Fsquirrel_hunters_photos%2FProject%2520Garage%2520Find%2FIMG-20121205-01000_zpsf073d105.jpg&hash=70207a525bfdc79ce68302c791db25682265c78a)
And
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Both were sold as having no damage. The first I knew very little about other than some surface rust inside as the seller wasn't sure what bike it was from. The second was sold as no rust inside or out. Lets take a closer look at those claims...
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Well at least they didn't cost me too much.
So I started looking round at options. There was a company that could clean the rust out, repair, test, etc the tanks but the cost would be approximately the same as a new tank if only Yamaha still sold them. The other option I knew of was to treat the rust with either Electrolysis or some chemical treatment. While that sounded the cheapest I wasn't convinced that it or for that matter I would be suitable for this. So I talked to a local car restorers and was pointed in the direction of a local company that could acid dip the tanks. This would clean the rust out and remove the existing paint ready for a new coat.
So I took the tanks up to Chemiclean Swindon (http://"http://www.chemicleanltd.co.uk/") and for £25 a tank they baked the old paint off, acid dipped the tank, and cleaned it all off for me.
The result was two tanks that then looked like this on the outside:
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And this on the inside:
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However the only downside to the acid is it takes all the rust and paint off, so if that was the only thing holding the fuel in the tank, well not any more.
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And more holes all over here.
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In fact the holes are everywhere. The white tank came out of it better than the red as that resembled a sieve more than a tank, but both are far from water tight.
Those came out nice! The pitting is quite common, on all my 3XV's there's a bunch of pin holes forming slowing pushing up the paint :'( :'(
So time to strip down the wheels for powder coat. For example the front wheel.
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First to remove the old tyre a Dunlop Arrow Max on the front and a Yokohama R-205 on the rear. I didn't even know that Yokohama made bike tyres.
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Anyway with the tyre off I popped the dust seals out and placed the rim on a couple of blocks off wood to have a go at removing the bearings.
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However at this point I'm stuck. Is there a trick to this? I have a hammer and drift and have moved the internal spacer slightly but I can't seam to get a good enough purchase on the inner race to tap it out. I suppose I could try and move the spacer more by tapping the drift on it but don't want to risk damaging it. So is there something else I can try or do I just need to persevere with the little grip I can get on the bearing and hope for the best?
On the Rd aircooled forum someone said they used Rawl bolts wound in til they grip the inner race tightly and then use a drift to drive bearing out
You can use a rawl bolt but will have to do them right up put some heat on them always helps to move them
I have read about the raw-bolt technique however I've got a slide hammer and split bearing puller on my list of tools to get. I did find these that might do the job:
http://www.workshopping.co.uk/product/draper-10-piece-slide-hammer-kit/52321/ (http://www.workshopping.co.uk/product/draper-10-piece-slide-hammer-kit/52321/) £28
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350701652523? (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350701652523?) £40
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-04470-Expert-Bearing-Removal/dp/B0054LEXEO# (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-04470-Expert-Bearing-Removal/dp/B0054LEXEO#) £107
The £40 Fleabay looks about the best but I would take expert advice from someone other than me.
On most wheels the spacer will move more to the side on one bearing than the other. I seem to recall 2MA wheels are no different? The spacer should move enough to one side on one of the bearings to allow you get good enough purchase with the drift to be able to tap it out so check both sides(warming the rim will help it pop out with less force of course). Once that side is out, you can remove teh spacer and tap the other one out. It's generally a very simple job? The spacer may need a bit of gentle encouragement to move aside though... ;)
Probs a good idea to support the wheel at the hub rather than the rim when knocking the bearing out.
Rawl Bolts is a new one on me. I'll leave that as plan B though. Thats a great price on a slide hammer, might have to buy one anyway. But I'd like to get these done sooner.
But the perseverance as suggested by Warwick matches other advise I've been given so will play around with the spacer a bit more to see if I can persuade it to give me a little more room to work.
And that is a good point about supporting the hub rather than the rim. Will move the blocks of wood for the next attempt, thanks.
will you be replacing bearings with sealed units?
Not sure what your planned next steps for the tank are but if it's of any help I'm also in the process of getting a pair of 2MAs to the desired condition and currently have three sets of bodywork and 3 tanks. I presume you are based close to Swindon which happens to be close to me as I'm near Farringdon. I was going to wait untill the weather warms and EBay the spares but if you're interested then by all means pm me with contact details and we can discuss further. In any event you look to be doing a great job and I'm impressed with your comittment and progress !
Quote from: Paul on February 06, 2013, 07:52:40 AM
will you be replacing bearings with sealed units?
The bearings are to be replaced with a set of Yambits (http://yambits.co.uk/) finest. And by the looks of them they are sealed, I will still be using the dust seals as required though again Yambits supplied.
Reed Pete, will send you a PM.
Looks like we have a similar project on our hands. I haven't been around this forum allot but will keep an eye on your progress. I have most of my project posted over here
http://www.2strokeworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=18181.0
Hi kw86er you seam to be getting on well with your project. Some good stuff there about the engine thats going to be useful, thanks. You're in Vancouver, whats the spares scene like? I can't get a new loom over here any places there I could try?
TZR's are like hens teeth over here. Well not as rare as they are in the US because there was a fair amount of grey imports brought in but I wouldn't think your gonna have much luck with parts out here, I haven't had any. Not sure where over there is? Were you missing the loom from the original? It would be a long days work but not all that bad to duplicate or repair if you have something to work with. On the 2 Stroke World site there is a guy that goes by Cookie. He has put an RZ350 motor into a TZR frame not sure if he would have the loom leftover or not. He is building a race bike so I would imagine he would be starting from scratch at this point. If your not a member it is worth joining. There is allot of good help there for general 2 stroke stuff and gets a little more traffic than this site so questions that are not too specific to TZR's get responses quicker.
If they are rare then you have my sympathies with the parts search. I'm in Sunny Swindon in the UK, the 2MA was an official bike here but lots of parts are discontinued from Yamaha, but now and again you can find stuff that has been sat on a shelf for 20+ years.
I do have the original loom, but its been hacked about a fair bit. However I do have a second hand replacement, but until its time to fit it to the bike I'll be hunting a new one.
Will have a look over at the 2 Stroke World site, might come in handy...
There's a guy on RD Air cooled forum called Ed Franklin who makes looms,am sure he could make you a brand new loom if you supplied old one?Could send him a pm if you like?
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on February 05, 2013, 03:09:10 AM
So time to strip down the wheels for powder coat. For example the front wheel.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi153.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs216%2Fsquirrel_hunters_photos%2FProject%2520Garage%2520Find%2FIMG-20130202-01210_zps670be91b.jpg&hash=6ad67a4859fd4cd057f6f4d82fe158ffeea66d8b)
First to remove the old tyre a Dunlop Arrow Max on the front and a Yokohama R-205 on the rear. I didn't even know that Yokohama made bike tyres.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi153.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs216%2Fsquirrel_hunters_photos%2FProject%2520Garage%2520Find%2FIMG-20130203-01233_zps5fabcf5f.jpg&hash=1b68917ca8a7731f5901a449a19ddef0d9a98fc2)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-piece-Bearing-Extractor-Set-Inner-Internal-Blind-Remover-Pilot-Bushes-Puller-/181024840409?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a25ebdad9
Some split collet bearing pullers are a great investment...........or find a mate who has a set
Anyway with the tyre off I popped the dust seals out and placed the rim on a couple of blocks off wood to have a go at removing the bearings.
(https://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi153.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs216%2Fsquirrel_hunters_photos%2FProject%2520Garage%2520Find%2FIMG-20130203-01234_zpsf69f4521.jpg&hash=45b9307f7c7897e333b293598618723ff853525f)
However at this point I'm stuck. Is there a trick to this? I have a hammer and drift and have moved the internal spacer slightly but I can't seam to get a good enough purchase on the inner race to tap it out. I suppose I could try and move the spacer more by tapping the drift on it but don't want to risk damaging it. So is there something else I can try or do I just need to persevere with the little grip I can get on the bearing and hope for the best?
Quote from: Mick on February 10, 2013, 12:06:47 PM
There's a guy on RD Air cooled forum called Ed Franklin who makes looms,am sure he could make you a brand new loom if you supplied old one?Could send him a pm if you like?
If you could. I make no promises but I'd be interested to know a rough idea of what it would cost and the time frame.
I did look at making my own at one point but although I think I could do it buying the wires might be a little on the expensive side. I'd want to essentially replicate the original loom with the correct connectors and wire colors so not to confuse diagrams etc. I read a very interesting thread from someone who made their own VFR400 loom and while the connectors were relatively affordable the wires could only be bought in bulk and this was the main part of the cost.
As for the wheel bearings the purchase of a slide hammer or blind bearing puller has resulted in only more noise. Going to get a mate over to give me a hand as theres got to be something I'm not doing right, plus he has a little blow torch to add heat to the rim or in all probability a trip to A&E to bandage our fingers.
Well those wheels took me a little longer then I expected, its put my build behind by two weeks, plus it turns out my target event is now two months before I thought it was puts me very behind schedule. Anyway I'm going to stick to my original target and just miss that rather then moving the goal posts now.
Basically to get the bearings out I had another go with the hammer and drift. Then when that didn't work I had a go with another hammer and what ever I could find to act as a drift. And when that didn't work I bought a slide hammer (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht252-5-pce-blind-bearing-puller-set?da=1&TC=SRC-blind+bearing+puller).
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The slide hammer or as it also described, a blind bearing puller is hefty piece of kit. Basically you insert an extractor jaw into the bearing and tighten it, this expands the extractor which also has a lip to it that grabs the edge of the bearing. You then attach the slide hammer to the extractor and move the slide up the shaft to hit the top of the slide transferring the force the the bearing and in theory moving it.
However in my case it turned out to be an expensive tool to make noise. Considering the action that the tool completes, one that I describe as wanking off a bearing, you would have thought I would have been quite good at it. Alas no.
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I even tried revering the use of the extractor jaw by inserting it, expanding it, and then hammering it out from the other side. Again nothing. So for my next trick - the application of heat. Unfortunately the only additional heat I could supply was to breathe on it after sucking a Fisherman's Friend. So I called up Stretchie who obliged.
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He turned up at mine with a set of drifts so big they wouldn't even slip into the inner race. So we went straight to the heat and the blow torch he brought with him. After setting up the slide hammer the torch was applied for a minute or so evenly. Tap tap tap and the bearing was out. I didn't even need to employ Stretchie's additional downforce advantage to mine. With one side of the bearing out the other side was easy to do with the hammer and punch. This was then repeated on the other wheel.
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We also took the the bottom bearing race off of the lower yoke as things will be going for powder coat on Monday starting with the wheels. Oh yes and so I don't forget the front wheel spindle spacer has a collar on the disc side.
Oh and if anyone has any suggestions as to why the front and rear wheels have "30" written on them in what appears to be white marker pen I'd be interested to know. I have a suspicion that these might not be the wheels the bike left the factory with...
Things have been progressing but not as fast as I would like. However I do have a little update to report...
I'm surprised no one noticed from the tank posts that I dropped two off for acid dip but only have one back, what happened to the other one? Well its simple really, Chemiclean (http://www.chemicleanltd.co.uk/) is not very easy to find.
Once I found the correct industrial units as its slightly off the beaten track I couldn't see which one I needed. Luckily there was a chap about to enter one so I called out to him and he pointed me in the correct direction to next door. As he went into his unit I happened to notice the sign on the door and after dealing with the acid decided I'd follow him in...
I had stumbled across a family run bike engineers called Rolling Art Motorcycles (http://www.rollingartmotorcycles.com/index.html). They are tool makers by trade and it shows, they just won the professional build category in this years MCN Built In Britain.
So once my tanks were out of the acid they went next door to Rolling Art Motorcycles to be braised. Glenn examined the tanks and suggested that only one of them would be economical to repair so I left that one with him to be made solid.
So when I found the problem with the lockstop I knew where to take the frame, and the result looks far better than I could have imagined:
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As well as repairing the tank and lockstops RAM are organising the painting of the tank and fairings, but more on that later. They have also sorted a couple of other little bits out for me, with some damaged threads being repaired, and the removal of the swing arm bearings. They are also going to be making me some bar pins, and reriviting the frame plate back on once powder coat is complete. And all for what I would say is a very reasonable price.
Updates have been slow, but I've been doing somethings behind the scenes. For example I got forked again. Or more precisely I got the stanchions back from Pitted Forks (http://www.pittedforks.co.uk/) and they look very nice.
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6 week turn around as promised. Nicely packaged on return. Just need to give them a clean and wipe down with some WD40 and they will be good to go. However, at the moment I have nothing to stick them in as the bike is being powder coated.
I was going to get a local company to do it, but they took their time giving me a quote and I didn't think it was that great. But I was comparing the cost from 10 years ago, though I wouldn't have thought that it would have doubled in that time. So I phoned and emailed a couple of firms to get some prices.
One company came back with a price near £700, which was far more then I was expecting. But I think they interpreted the initial email about what I was looking for as more concourse as there was talk of Black Zinc and Bright Zinc among other things. In fairness to them I did suggest about matching some of the original colors. But I thought about it and decided that I risked going to far in the wrong direction and what I want from the bike is a standard looking machine with a few subtle modifications.
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So in the end I took that little lot plus the frame and the wheels to Bristol Motorcycle Powder Coating (http://www.bristolmotorcyclepowdercoating.co.uk/). I've gone for 3 colors, red for the wheels, silver for the main frame parts and some of the brackets and black for the rest. Its going to be about £440 and 3 weeks, but I'm looking forward to it. When I was handing over the parts the chap dealing with the bikes went though the masking of particular areas to make sure I was happy with the intended outcome and I pointed out some of the less obvious ones so I have high hopes for this.
And now one final picture for this update. Just a teaser, I've got the tank back...
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You've been playing nicely. Can't wait to see it coming together
So not really been doing much with the project, just waiting to get the bike back from the powder coaters, and trying to find the last few remaining parts I currently know I need. So on that subject I've got myself a replacement mudguard.
The original was cracked from the weight of the D-Lock that was hung from it and the replacement I found turned out not to be as undamaged as I first thought. Reed Pete was going to sort me one from a FZR400 as its basically the same but without indicator mounting holes, but then howARD was selling one so thats what arrived the other week.
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It was in good condition, just needed a bit of a clean up. So after reading an article in Practical Sportsbikes about tidying up black plastic I thought I'd give it a go. Started by washing it using some Muc Off, followed by a wipe over to remove the remaining grease and dirt with cellulose thinners. Then the dangerous part, application of the heat gun.
The idea of the heat gun is to gently melt the plastic bringing the oils and brightness back to the surface. The risk is if you go too far and burn through the plastic or distort it. Just with this approach the plastic was freshened up a bit but not by a huge amount. So I then rubbed a little black trim restorer in and then reapplied some heat.
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I'm pleased with the results though comparing side by side with the original in a photo the difference isn't that pronounced, I think more heat might help, but don't want to risk it.
Also repeated the process on the undertray which look amazing compared to the dirty and gunk covered streak of plastic that I removed from the bike months ago. Next the clocks...
You can use the Japan type indicators that go next to the brake light. They look better...
I live quite close to you in Didcot and currently looking for a good powder coating shop to do some stuff of my bike, which one did you use? Was it cheap? Do they also plate stuff?
I'm using Bristol Motorcycle Powder Coating (http://www.bristolmotorcyclepowdercoating.co.uk/) not to far from me, little further for you. Should come in at £440 which isn't to bad I don't think. Just waiting for the call to say its done. They've been quite busy at the moment so not as quick a turn around as they normally do. Not sure if they do plating or not though.
As for the indicators, not going to be using the 1KT indicators for the rear. I prefer the look of the 2MA ones. Technically you wouldn't be able to get a MOT with the Japanese ones as they are too close to the brake light, but I doubt it would be an issue.
When stripping down the bike I didn't like the condition of the clocks. The clock surround was rusting and the plastic was faded and dirty. So the first thing I did was take it all apart.
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The clock surround has lenses for the dash lights (oil, indicators, etc) glued into it so I couldn't really strip it down any further, but I did want to do something about the rust. So I took the cover down to Jon at Lucknow Garage Repairs, Swindon. Jon has done some work for me in the past so I left it in his capable hands. A couple of days later I picked up a freshly sprayed cover in a nice satin black.
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Then it was the simple task of putting it all back together. Cleaned everything up first and treated the rear cover to the same method as the black plastics above to freshen that up. Used some WD40 on the connectors and some of the cellulose thinners to take some of the dirt off in other areas. And the result is that the clocks now look like new.
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Looks nice!!
Should get an update on the powdercoating in a couple of days. So to keep busy I've been cleaning more. I won't bore you all with every bit, but so far I've discovered under layers of gunk, dirt, and oil the side stand switch, rear brake switch and a mudguard.
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That is how it was removed. Covered in a strange film layer of grease and dirt which was one of the reasons I thought the seals had blown. I think the oil helped protect it over the years.
So to clean it up I washed it with some Muc-Off spray in the bath. Spray on, wait, wash off. Cleaned most of it up but some of the more stubborn spots needed a little of my favorite cleaner WD40 followed by another round of Muc-Off.
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Once that was all dried up the paint work while good was a little flat. So I started on the bracket with some Autosol followed by some of the black bumper polish I had used before on the black unpainted plastic at the rear. To use this I thought it might be a good idea to protect the red so masked the line off.
And once the black was done I masked the line again on the other side and used some red T-Cut polish to bring the shine out on that side. I even gave the inside of the mudguard a quick once over.
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Really pleased with the results the mudguard looks almost new. The finally thing to do was to glue the foam protectors back on that fell off in the bath to the mudguard using a hot glue gun. I did notice that there is a small nick in the front edge like someone had started to use a junior hacksaw on it, but I'm not going to do anything with that.
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Just got more cleaning to do which should keep me occupied for a while. I'm never going to get some of the bits like how they were when the bike left the factory but just to a nice condition that I don't have to wash my hands after I pick them up, for example I've discovered the oil tank is actually a semi transparent white color and not black...
The clock surround lenses for the dash lights will come out if you warm the surround up in hot water,scrape off the glue on the back of them,and push them out with the kitchen wooden spoon handle end.
Then you could have the surround powder coated which as you probably well know,is more durable.
Then re-glue the lenses back in,making a note beforehand of the sequence of the colours.
This is what i did with my clock surround.
More cleaning has been done and more remains to be done. But I got a nice phone call on Friday from the powdercoater. Its all done. Will be picking it up in the next couple of days so my thoughts turn to assembly.
The plan dare I risk it is to start with the front wheel, put the bearings in, bolt the disc on, then fit a tyre. Which leads me to my question...
What tyres do I go for?
Traditionally I pick black and round ones as I hold my own view on pub tyre experts, but would like to hear some advise as I was thinking of something sporty. On my SV for the last X years I have had Conti Road Attacks as they are sold as sport touring which suits me fine. However as I'm building this for fun I'd like to have something fitting on there.
Will also pop into my local tyre fitters to see what they say as I always get excellent service from them and they will be doing the fitting for me. I did consider refitting the mismatched 20 year old tyres but am sure there are some better options out there?
It looks like I'm not going to be spoiled for choice with tyres. Avon, Dunlop, Pirelli all don't list a tyre for the TZR. Continental do something called the Twist SM/ Sport that I've never heard of and then there is the Bridgestone Battlax BT45 which is a sport touring/ touring tyre.
Ummm...
I've used BT45s on one my TZRs in the past and was impressed with them.
Check this thread out...
http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=446.msg4699#msg4699
Kenny is running the BT-003 Bridgestones on his bike and seems to like them. I opted for the S20's as I thought they may give a bit better wet road traction. It rains here in Florida... I've not mounted them yet, but hope to tomorrow. I'll be testing them at the Dragon next week!!
http://www.dealsgap.com/
I'm hearing a lot about the BT45's but would be interested to know what else is out there. Will also have a chat with my local fitter in the next couple of days.
So I took the afternoon off and had a little drive down to Bristol and returned with some freshly powdercoated metal all wrapped in industrial grade cling film. So first order was to unwrap that lot, was like a kid at Christmas.
So some pictures. Firstly the frame. It looks good enough to lick. Not that I would... Much.
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Next the wheels. The red was matched against the fairing color, but has came out a little darker. I'm not worried about that, I know the wheel and fairing color is slightly off as standard and lets face it, we are painting using different materials.
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Now the silver bits.
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Finally the black bits.
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Just need to remove the mask and tidy up the threads. I think a little bit missed masking though some of it can be well hidden under the coating so will have to investigate that later and at worse might have to remove some coating somehow. But overall I'm very happy with the results.
So the plan now is to set to work on reassembly. A few parts need to go off to different places for a little assistance, but this can be done in parallel so shouldn't impact the time line to much.
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 24, 2013, 12:55:40 AM
I'm hearing a lot about the BT45's but would be interested to know what else is out there. Will also have a chat with my local fitter in the next couple of days.
I run them on my old Kawasaki Triples, as they are a bias ply tire, and you can run a tube in them for the spoked rims.
For a TZR, I'd stick with the sticky sport bike radial tires if I were you...
Quote from: jcsnook on April 25, 2013, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 24, 2013, 12:55:40 AM
I'm hearing a lot about the BT45's but would be interested to know what else is out there. Will also have a chat with my local fitter in the next couple of days.
I run them on my old Kawasaki Triples, as they are a bias ply tire, and you can run a tube in them for the spoked rims.
For a TZR, I'd stick with the sticky sport bike radial tires if I were you...
Problem with 1KT or 2MA stock rim is that they are very narrow.
2.15" front with 100/80x17" tire
2.50" rear with 120/20x17" tire.
BT45 are good tires for a road bike (my road TZR has got some) and could be used on track days too.
Could try Avon AM26 (never use them)
http://www.avontyres.fr/node/129 (http://www.avontyres.fr/node/129)
Quote from: tzr-v4 on April 25, 2013, 11:37:59 PM
Quote from: jcsnook on April 25, 2013, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 24, 2013, 12:55:40 AM
I'm hearing a lot about the BT45's but would be interested to know what else is out there. Will also have a chat with my local fitter in the next couple of days.
I run them on my old Kawasaki Triples, as they are a bias ply tire, and you can run a tube in them for the spoked rims.
For a TZR, I'd stick with the sticky sport bike radial tires if I were you...
Problem with 1KT or 2MA stock rim is that they are very narrow.
2.15" front with 100/80x17" tire
2.50" rear with 120/20x17" tire.
BT45 are good tires for a road bike (my road TZR has got some) and could be used on track days too.
Could try Avon AM26 (never use them)
http://www.avontyres.fr/node/129 (http://www.avontyres.fr/node/129)
Oh my....sorry, I had no idea that the rims were that narrow. ???
Then the BT-45's may be a good option for you! ???
+1 BT45's good mileage and plenty soft enough!
Cheap too!
Dan
When I first got the bike and made my initial assessment of it I knew the loom might be an issue so I bought a used but working replacement. I've just dug it out the garage to clean it up ready, took one look at it and decided that pile of junk isn't going on my bike.
So what to do? I could try and repair the original loom and possibly salvage and splice in some of the spare loom where required. Or I could try and find a better condition replacement, or I could be really lucky and find a new one (I can dream).
I've got a few weeks before it will be needed but at the moment I'm not very happy.
What a fantastic thread. I'm currently undertaking exactly the same restoration. I was toying with the idea of creating a new thread, but it would just be a duplication of this one.
This has given me some great ideas for dealing with some of the issues of mine, like acid dipping the tank.
How did you find the suspension linkage bearings? Mine have a lot of play, and I've just found that Yamaha don't have replacements. Looks like I'll have to get some made. Seeing the frame come back from the powdercoaters has really motivated me to get mine repainted properly.
Really looking forward to seeing more progress.
Cheers
Nice work, keep it coming.
Scooter. You must contribute, start a project thread, we can't get enough of these bikes being revived.
OK, You've convinced me.........
Quote from: Scooter on April 30, 2013, 12:57:45 AMHow did you find the suspension linkage bearings? Mine have a lot of play, and I've just found that Yamaha don't have replacements.
Yep mine are done for also. Yamaha still do the oil seals and one of the bearings (can't remember the part numbers at the moment), but the pins and metalastic bearings are no longer available and the local bearing suppliers can't help.
I do have a local engineering company that specialise in old cars who should be helping me out unless anyone has any leads? They think the pins can be polished up and they will be making some sort of bearing arrangement for me. Not sure of the cost of this yet so still exploring options.
It looks like I haven't done anything with this for about a month, but I assure you all I have, just been a little late with the updates as it didn't really look like much has happened but a fair bit has been going on.
So todays update, the steering bearings. Got my local bike shop, Artdeans (http://www.artdeans.com/) to press the lower yoke bearing on for me first using a Yambits (http://yambits.co.uk/) tapered head bearing kit. I got the oil seal, followed by the bearings dust seal, followed by the bearing pressed on. Decided to get them to do it for me as its a couple of minutes if you have the right equipment as opposed to risk damaging the yoke or bearing if you don't.
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I then installed the lower yoke race into the frame by placing the frame at the top of my stairs to flatten the stem to work on as the shape of the frame fitted nicely. I had the yoke on the top step and the tail of the frame on the 3rd step down, plus with it being carpeted the risk of damaging the powder coat was reduced.
To install the race I used one of the original races to spread the load of the impending hammer as with the new race in the yoke the old one would not meet the outer sides of the yoke and would not get stuck. On top of the race I placed a 32mm impact socket to hit. And with a couple of taps in it went.
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I'm sure I have the right kit, but I don't fancy having to change these again as the lip of the frame is larger than the bearing race, so there's not really anything to hit. Thoughts welcomed here?
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Then it was on to the top race. Same method of insertion was used. Here the race is proud of the frame, but I've had this before on my SV when changing head bearing and have been assured this is fine.
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Then I installed the lower yoke and the upper bearing and dust seal followed by the cover and then the nut just to have a look at it. I need to grease the bearing before tightening it up properly, but with it finger tight the yoke didn't move as smoothly as I expected.
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There is no notchiness but it feels stiff. It all looks correct when assembled but just doesn't feel quite right. So I took the yoke out again and think I have located the issue. When I press down on the lower bearing as if it were under load I think the dust seal is catching on it and tightening its movement.
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So looking for some advice on this one now. Will this improve with grease and proper installation in the frame or has something gone wrong and what's the best way to resolve it?
So the head bearing problem...
Further investigation showed that it wasn't just the dust seal that was catching. The top of the lower bearing was rubbing on the frame. The more I tried it the more obvious it was showing up as I was finding some fine powder that looked like what you get when sanding metal down on the bearing. And finally I could see where it was rubbing on the frame.
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Basically the lip that the bearing sits on is much bigger than expected which is interfacing with the bearing top. I spoke to Yambits and sent them the photos. They reviewed them and agreed that there was something not quite right with my frame, or at least its different than they had previously seen. They told me that they had sold many of these kits before and I'm the first with this problem. But that didn't help me, so they gave me a refund for the kit. I'm happy with this and cannot fault their service and will continue to use them.
So I decided to revert to OEM bearings, cost is a little more but should fit my frame without issue. Or that's the hope. First thing I needed to do was to get these bearing races out as there is no edge for me to hit them out with I took the frame to Rolling Art to partake of their welding skills.
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There is a risk in doing this as there is a lot of heat going through the head stock and the powdercoat may react to that. So the headstock was wrapped in a wet rag to try to prevent this. And on the whole it did, but there was a small burn from a bit of splatter on the top. But this is fine as it will be all hidden once the rest of the yoke is on.
It was interesting to see how the welding worked. I expected that a tab would be needed to be welded on and then the bearing tapped out, but no. Just a lot of weld spread round the race. So how does it work I wondered? And the answer is though the heat of the process expands the metal when the weld is added the weld once cooled contracts and as the bearing works on being such a tight interference fit this contraction all over the bearing is enough to reduce it in size so it just pops out.
The next thing to do is to put the new OEM bearings in.
So OEM bearings were ordered and quickly arrived. And I set about installing them starting with the top lower race.
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Before doing the top bottom. You can also see where the splatter hit.
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Installation process was the same as the tapered rollers. I used one of the old bearings to spread the load over the outer edges of the race and a 32mm impact socket to hit it home.
Now to the lower yoke. Artdeans swapped the lower tapered bearing for my new lower race when I picked up the bearings so didn't need to worry about that. Just needed to add 19 ball bearings into the mix.
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Smeared the race with grease and then popped the bearings in. Then added more grease to the top of the balls, and even smeared some around the bottom top race. I understand this is a novel approach according to some manufacturers.
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I then dropped the frame over the lower yoke and repeated the process with the bottom top race. Grease, 19 balls and more grease.
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Finally adding the top top race, the cover, and the nut. Tightened the nut down and loosened it off a little and the bearings feel mighty smooth.
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Just need to add the top yoke, oh and the rest of the bike.
Just be aware that you may need to nip them up again after a few good rides as they settle in .
Keep up the pics ! Good reading O0
And now for the wheels.
Put the bearings and spacers and seals into both the front and rear wheels. Used new bearings and seals from Yambits. First time I'd done it and it went well. The only thing I would say is the spacer between bearings can move so once the bearing is in the grove every other hit check that it is still straight as it goes down and finally seats.
And hitting things means you need to be careful. One slip and the hammer can hit the wheel rim and chip the fresh powdercoat.
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Not to bad, just very annoying. Touched it up with some red Hammerite so doubt you will be able to see it once on the bike.
I used sockets on the outer races of the bearings to tap them home. And another recommendation would be to check that you have the correct sized sockets before you start otherwise you might find yourself running round trying to find a 25mm or 26mm socket to use just as the shops are shutting.
Before I put the bearings in I checked that the sprocket carrier could fit still. And its lucky I did check because it didn't. This was due to the thickness of the powdercoat on the hub, a bit we didn't think needed masking. So out with the sand paper it was and eventually I took enough of it off to get it to fit, not pretty but it will be hidden anyway.
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Then it was tyres. Was going to go for the BT45's but a chat with my local tyre shop Bike Treads (http://www.biketreads.co.uk/) and I came away with a set of Continental ContiTwist Sport SM fitted. Decided to go for them over the BT45's as the ContiTwists were listed as a Super Sport tyre, they even do a track version. The tread pattern also looks like Road Attacks and I've had them on my SV for years. So I'm going to give them a try, if it works out then good, of not then I'll get a set of BT45's next. The interesting thing was the pair of the ContiTwists were very noticeably cheaper than anything else I could get...
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Anyway with the tyres fitted I put the brake discs back on with new bolt from Yambits, then put them to the side while I got on with the forks.
I've also rebuilt the swingarm. That sounds a little more extreme then it actually was. Basically stuck a swing arm repair kit from Yambits in which is the two swingarm bearings and the internal spacer. Added to that new thrust washers again from Yambits and it was good to go. Until I noticed I'd forgotten the two washers that sit outside the swing arm and under the thrust washers. Not an issue as it was just a case of pulling the thrust washers off and putting them back on with the washers between them. But it was close as I am keeping everything until it is finished and I only discovered the washers at this late stage as they were attached by grease to the inside of the old thrust washers and not easy to spot.
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The bearings were installed in the same way as the other bearings but the Yamaha manual is a little unclear as to how far down it should sit. According to the works manual the bearings should be 0.5 - 1.0mm within the pivot, but there is a little lip down the pivot so not sure if it should be measured from there or not. But I have the bearings in the pivot in a position I am happy with.
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Also built the sprocket hub with new studs from Yamaha, and new bearings, seals, lockwashers, and sprocket from Yambits. I reused the nuts as they were undamaged and though a bit dirty looking now they wont stay visible for long once the chain lube gets to them. If I were to rebuild the hub again I'd stick the spacer into the bearing before installing the bearing in the sprocket. Not a big problem, but would have made it easier.
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And I almost forgot an new chain guide was added to the swingarm.
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The original was well used. I don't think the previous owners kept on top of chain maintenance as there were marks on the swing arm and the frame from the chain hitting. I did need to reuse the collar from the original, but cant really understand why this is a separate part.
Forks. Not as easy as you might think.
The first problem was the Fork Damper Snap Ring which is a spring clip that sits on the fork damper rod. I'm not really sure what its job is, but it stops the damper rod from coming out of the stanchion without removing it. When I took the forks apart originally I was missing one of these snap rings, and unfortunately Yamaha no longer supply them. So I thought it would be a simple job of tracking one down. I tried 3 bike shops, 4 bearing suppliers, 2 faster suppliers, 1 engineers and a couple of websites. No one could supply a match. So I had a spare set of forks, I dismantled a fork just to get this snap ring out.
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So back to assembly of the forks. The first one was a complete success. The second, not so. It one of those classic things when you find something left over at the end of the job. In this case it was the oil seal washer that I forgot to put in. The washer sits above the bushes, but below the oil seal. So decided to take apart the fork again and try again. But like so many things not as simple as it might sound.
I think because the washer wasn't there, the oil seal had made it into places that you wouldn't expect. The prevented easy separation of the stanchion from the fork lower. Me and Stretchie (not of this parish) had great fun eventually using a vice to hold the fork, me to steady the work bench and Stretchie's excessive down force to separate it.
The fork eventually separated, but I now needed a new oil seal. And the vice had taken its toll on some of the powdercoat as we didn't protect it enough. The powdercoat was touched up with silver Hammerite and again isn't very noticeable.
A week or two later new oil seals turned up and I started to rebuild the forks. Firstly I decided to pop the oil lock off of the station and inserted the damper rod through the stanchion and added a broom handle to it. Gave it a quick couple of taps and the oil lock came off. The damper rod then didn't. Bolt and light tap though the damper rod and it unseated itself revealing the now damaged fork damper snap ring. Time to disassemble the other spare fork.
Eventually I had all the fork internals that I required, touched up the powdercoat, and had new seals so could rebuild them properly. Seals and drain bolts were from Yambits. Ruffy (not of this parish) kindly sent me a pair of Yamaha dust seals and oil seal clip from when he owned one, many thanks for them.
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Finally I could put new springs and oil in as supplied by Hagon (http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/). A set of progressive springs were added along with their oil at the correct air gap 150mm and luckily I fall in the perfect weight range for their springs. The progressives are shorter that the standard springs which made putting the fork tops on easier than usual.
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Decided to go for the Hagon springs as I understand that these are better than the standard ones and are what is recommended by those racing in the YPM series and we can all have aspirations.
The rear suspension and the shock linkage was the next problem I tackled. The linkage is an interesting arrangement that is a mixture of bearings and bushes. Unfortunately Yamaha don't supply the bushes any more neither do they supply the pins. All of the bearings on the linkage were seized, all of the bushes were oval, all of the pins were corroded, all off the thrust washers and oil seals had failed.
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It doesn't show up as well in the photos so I've just included an exploded view here.
I tried a number of bearing manufactures and none could help. The closest I got was one who took a week to tell me they were Metalastic Bush, but still I was not closer. I considered changing the linkage to the later models arrangement as I understand that its a different setup, or changing to different types of bearings, but I want to keep it original in this respect. So I spoke to an engineering company...
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South Cerney Engineering (http://www.vintagecarrestorations.com/scemain1.htm) they know how to do classic cars and proper engineering and aren't afraid to touch bikes. They looked over the linkage and manufactured me a new pin and copper bearing for the front.
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Manufactured a pair of pins and Metalastic Bush for the linkage joint ordering in the material to do so.
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Polished up the rear pin and installed the new bearings and oils seals that are still available from Yamaha.
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Only one type of the thrust washer is still available but it fits both joints so I'm using that.
Now on to more shocking developments. The rear shock on the bike is 20 years old, I understand that after some years the gas may not be as effective as it was when it left the factory and it may have lost some of its performance. In fact when sitting on the bike originally it didn't really feel as if it was there much.
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So I started looking around for a replacement. But there was very little on offer that was at a reasonable price. I did see Hagon offer one that is used in YPM now but that didn't really speak to me so in the end I sent it off to a suspension specialist who cleaned it up and sent it back to me a few weeks later.
I wasn't happy with the now cleaned shock as it really showed up the rust on it. Luckily included in the box was another shock, a nice new one...
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Nitron (http://"http://www.nitron.co.uk/") didn't do a shock for the 2MA so I called them. There was some confusion over the year and model of my bike as they did do one for the 3MA. But the 3MA uses a different shock design. So they suggested that I send them the shock I have and they would make me a NTR Sport shock for my bike and weight.
So a couple of weeks later they sent me my lovely new shock and they should now be able to supply a 2MA shock easily to anyone who requires one.
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Compared to the original I think its a great improvement.
One of the other issues I needed to resolve was reattaching the Deltabox frame plates. They were originally removed with a little heat and a Stanley Knife as they were held on with some very strong "sticky back plastic".
Trouble is a cant find any of this stuff to stick the frame plates back on and what I've found hasn't really matched my expectations. Hot glue and such might not stay hot enough for me to apply and I might not be able to get it smooth enough. Adhesive foam would make it stick out to much. So while I was at South Cerney Engineering I popped into their body shop to see what they use to attach car trim and came away with some Tiger Seal.
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It looks like black bathroom sealant. I'm told its very strong but because of its rubber like properties it helps dampen vibrations, which should be useful. So spread a bit over the frame recess and pressed the plate down. And once cured it feels like that plate is going no where. Which is good as I cant get a replacement from Yamaha.
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I also have a replacement front axel as the original had been shaved down a little I suspect by the road and as such wasn't engaging with the fork lower as it should. Had to buy an entire front end to get one, but you never know when bits might be needed later.
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Next I fitted the swingarm into the frame, added the linkage, then the shock. Decided to stick the swingarm in a this point while the frame is empty and on its side as when I was doing a dry build getting the swingarm bolt through was not that easy, was actually a bit of a pain getting it out from what I remember. But as these things go when I came to do it properly it just slipped straight in.
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I think now it might be a good idea to stop building the bike in my front room and take it out to the garage to pull it all together.
Moved the bike down to the garage and started by putting the wheel into the clamp.
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Greased up the speedo drive, spacer, and spindle, then attached the forks.
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Then using a combination of sweat, swear words, and a paddock stand I put the forks into the lower yoke, added the top yoke and measured the fork height with the assistance of some masking tape to get the level.
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And that's when I noticed the problem. The wheel is straight. It is being held in a wheel clamp. The forks are turning slightly to the left. So I tightened up the front wheel spindle properly and clamped the lower yoke better. The rear suspension is still loose but I don't think this will be the answer.
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So I took the wheel out of the clamp and straightened the forks. You can now see the wheel is pointing right. Massively right.
So suggestions please?
Hopefully I'm doing something stupid that I've over looked, but I never seen this before. Yes I know the bike had been crashed before and the lockstop had taken a hit, but I didn't see anything like this while working with the bike before. The forks are the same, only dismantled powdercoated and rechromed. The wheel is original but with new bearings and tyre. The spindle is different but looked straight when compared with the original. The lower yoke was replaced but when it was off the bike didn't look out of the ordinary.
I know what the worse case is. But I'm hoping its not that and just something silly that I've missed. So where should I start checking? I do have a spare frontend, but I'd like to try and avoid having to take everything apart again if there are some things I should check first to eliminate things no matter how obvious they may appear to be at first.
I must say you are doing amazing work. It's going to be a real pity riding her around on salt gritted roads.
That pic with forks on the wheel. The rhs fork looks longer. Grab a tape.
Also your yokes might be twisted. Look down the forks as if you were sitting on the bike.
Very cool, nothing like reading a project done right with the morning tea ;)
Re the funny front end, that's normal and happens with RWU forks as far as I know, put the handlebars on, grip the tire with your legs and twist to the correct position then attach the fork brace to keep it from twisting...
Hi your bike is starting to take shape and looking mighty fine to.I am at the same point of restoration on my 3xv it's so nice to read your posts and know someone else is going through all same problems with same high's and lows keep up the great work.steve
Thanks all for the comments.
Panic over. I think. Did what had been suggested to me, basically loosened everything off apart from the top yoke clamps, added some bars and bounced it around. That seams to have settled it straight. Not 100% sure as its difficult to pick a reference point that I know is straight plus my paddock stand is a little uneven but at least now looks like the forks and the wheel are pointing in the same direction.
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Ignore the bars that I've used they wont be staying, I have something else lined up there but they were in the garage on the bench so within handy reach.
Tightened the front end back up and it looks about right. Might have another bounce once I get a front brake on there but for now that has stopped me worrying so much. I should add this is not the first time I've taken forks in and out but this is the first time I've had a problem doing it.
Now while there is still lots to do on the frame I think its time I attacked the engine. So off with the head it was.
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Looking down the bores I can see that there are still marks on the liners from honing, and the pistons are marked as 0.50 which I think is first oversize?
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The plugs are a little different between them, not perfect colour I don't think but nothing that set the alarm bells ringing. And on a plus side the crank rotates without issue. However as this hasn't been used for so long I think further investigation and dismantling will be required...
Stripping down the engine continues. Head off and barrels off.
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I could get a good look at the pistons. And from what I can tell they look good. Getting the nuts off the studs wasn't the easiest as there is very little access as you can't get a socket over half of them. Its going to be interesting on reassembly. Also removed all the studs, apart from one that snapped. So that will need to be drilled out once the rest of the engine is dealt with.
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Crank looked fine from my perspective nothing jumps out at me, though will have a professional check it out for me. Interestingly there was a lot of oil in the bottom of cylinder #1 crank, compared to #2 that didn't really have any. Not sure why?
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Next was the clutch cover, the rear oil drain bolt is also a cover bolt so make sure that is removed at the same time as the others. After that I was following the manual to remove the clutch, kickstart, primary drive, and all the other little bits and pieces.
Interestingly advice for others, the manual says to use some cloth to lock the clutch and primary drive to remove the primary drive nut. I used some paper towels first but that didn't work, so moved onto using a rag. Again that didn't work. So in the end I just rattled it off with an impact gun and a 26mm socket.
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Turning to the other side I took the generator cover off and some of the wiring is loose ready. However I've been and forgotten to order a rotor puller so play has stopped on the engine until that turns up. Once I have that its basically just splitting the cases and seeing what I have.
Have got a rotor puller, gasket set, oil seal set, plus some bearings, and some other engine bits on order from Yambits. Need to see how bad the intake manifolds are once they are cleaned up, also need some oil pipe as some of them split on removal, and some studs.
Then once that little lot arrives I'll remember to order something else that I needed.
Great stuff, you must really be on the home straight now. Inspiration to get moving again with mine.
Good stuff! Man, that is one grimey engine. Bet you can't wait to get it as clean as the rest of the restored bike ;)
I have a rotor puller.
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The rotor has been pulled.
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Not sure why 3 of the coils are so different and why there is a random bit of yellow insulated wire in between 2 of the coils. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be interested to know?
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With the top off I can see the crank and the gear box. And I can also see one of the things I've forgotten to order... I received a new left, right, and centre crank bearing, trouble is it needs 2 centre bearings.
Anyway crank and input shaft came out fine, just lifted up. The output shaft (the one with the sprocket on the end) needed a little more persuasion. I think it might have been the sprocket oil seal that was a little more sealed then it should have been.
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There is some sludge in the oil but lets face it, 20 years of not doing much. Then there was some dirt in there as well but I think that is more during disassembly then it already being there.
Gear box removal was a little more involved then it should have been. The selector shaft was blocked from coming out by a tab washer.
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The manual didn't say anything about this, once a retaining plate was removed I should have just been able to pull it out. So as I didn't need much more room I decided to bend the tab to get the shaft out. Will check clearance on everything once it goes back together. Worse case I have to bend it back or replace it but hopefully it wont come to that.
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So that's the engine apart. Spent the evening cleaning it up as it was just plastered in dirt and grime. There is a recess in between the barrels that was just filled with dirt. I spent so long digging dirt out of it I thought I was going to hit Australia or at least recreate the Shawshank Redemption. But the strangest thing was the old 5p piece I found blocking a drain slit between the reed blocks. Rich, rich I tells ya.
Going to take the top case into South Cerney tomorrow for the stud removal and get them to have a quick look over it for me as well. Hopefully will get the engine paint underway this week and decide what to do with the rest of the internals. Any suggestions on what I need to look for and or what I should do to it (I'm thinking full crank rebuild) and who to do it will be appreciated.
This is a great thread , you must be chuffed to bits with it thus far
The generators are all like that , the 3 odd coils are the ignition windings ,all the others are fro main electrical generation ( I think )
I'd just do a general inspection of the bits , they're pretty tough little engines these so may not need much doing to it
Check the selector forks for blueing , power valve bushes and spools for wear ,gear selector shaft and
Bush for wear damage ,bores& rings for wear and that's about it
The cranks are robust for a stroker , but would be as well to get ti checked after standing so long
Rust and lack of use kill more cranks there days sadly
Looking forward to the next instalment
Get on with it :)
Mike
Hi do yourself a favour and get a new tab washer don't bend the old one back it will be weakened and could snap off.you don't want to ruin all your good work for the sake of a fiver ;) keep up the good work.
Quote from: mikee on July 13, 2013, 01:02:04 PMGet on with it :)
I'm doing my best, just a little behind with the updates. But just to keep you going, the engine will be collected from the painters next week and the frame is really coming together. Just trying to get the pistons out of the calipers without having to rebuild and then strip them multiple times.
Quote from: stevewr250 on July 13, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
Hi do yourself a favour and get a new tab washer don't bend the old one back it will be weakened and could snap off.you don't want to ruin all your good work for the sake of a fiver ;) keep up the good work.
Yep your right. If I have to bend it back then I will replace it, if not then I will leave it. But that is if I can workout what part number it is?
part number is 90215-08174 i think ;)
Quote from: stevewr250 on July 14, 2013, 09:00:53 AM
part number is 90215-08174 i think ;)
Thanks, I have a replacement ready now if needed.
So the latest... Not 100% convinced on the fork alignment, looks a tiny bit out by the eye but miles off in a picture. I am trying not to panic yet, hoping that another bounce will sort it once the brakes are on.
But before I do that the latest on the engine. And from South Cerney the stud has been removed from the casing. The gearbox, including selectors have been given a clean bill of heath. The pistons and barrels have also been looked over and nothing is needed there. The head has also been checked and there is nothing wrong there either. The basics is, its good. So that's a bit of good news.
So next I dropped the engine down to Bristol Motorcycle Powder Coating (http://www.bristolmotorcyclepowdercoating.co.uk/) who did the frame and then stopped off at Piston Broke Engineering, Bristol (0117) 9412300 for him to take a look at the barrels and pistons too. Had barely got them out the box before he told me what engine they were from. He looked over them and confirmed that it was on its first oversize as the original bust its ring. He then went on to tell me all about the problems that Yamaha had with the original TZR250 pistons and the rebore sizes they used. Its that knowledge that you simply don't get from a main dealer. Anyway again barrels and pistons are good, and the crank has been left with him to strip, replace the main bearing and see if anything else needs doing.
Back to some pictures and back to the steering. One of the things I wasn't totally happy with was the steering bearings, I did them up originally by feel but that had been playing on my mind for a bit as I don't have the experience to do these things by feel. So Yamaha tells me that I need to torque them up to 40nm, then loosen one turn, then torque to 20nm. Easy. But only easy if you have a C-Spanner which you can fit on a torque wrench, I didn't.
So a search of the internet was more or less fruitless as its easy to find a C-Spanner, but to find one with a wrench adapter, and for then to fit the nut, not so easy. I did find one possible, but I found it was for a bigger nut when it arrived. So I gave up and ordered one from Yamaha. Not cheap but at least its done properly now.
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So with that set and the top yoke on I added the bar risers. But not just any bar risers. The originals have some thin rolled aluminium pins to act as locators. The ones I had were not exactly straight. So I got Rolling Art to make me some new ones.
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Its something you will never see, but it makes me happy. The risers got a coat of silver Hammerite and then went on the bike along with some new handlebars and the originals were a bit ground down from the road.
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Like I say, the photos make the steering look worse than it actually appears in the flesh. Also put the replacement ignition switch in. Forgot to paint it before adding the new switch sticker from Yambits so lightly sanded the edge so it now has a sliver ring around its outside. The Yambits sticker needed a little modification to fit but lines up perfectly.
That's nice progress 8)
How exactly does the torque wrench attach to that c spanner? And what the the part number :)
Top job so far, going to look better than new!
Quote from: Jakes on July 18, 2013, 08:38:11 AMHow exactly does the torque wrench attach to that c spanner? And what the the part number :)
A good question. When I looked at it first I thought it was some funny Torx type drive that I'd need, but not so. The star socket is just two 3/8" drives at opposing angles. So any 3/8" wrench will fit. I stuck it on the end of my wrench at 90º.
And the part number is 90890-01403 it is still a current part so try your local dealer.
Now one of the things that has been bothering me since taking the seat off has been the wiring. The loom has had it issues as could been seen when dismantling the bike but with the loom off of the bike they are more apparent.
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The alarm was a bit of an issue.
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As were some of the connectors at the front.
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And the fuse box and wiring around it.
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So what to do with this. I looked around and bought a second hand loom that turned out to be in worse condition then the one from the bike. Yamaha could no longer supply me one and neither could any international supplier that I know of. So I put the word out and Mick put me in contact with a chap called Ed from the Air Cooled RD Forum.
It turns out that Ed is an electrical wizard and in his spare time he makes looms for RD's. So had a bit of a chat with him and sent him my loom. I was told that it was actually in good condition with the alarm removed and I could get away with some repairs. However I had my heart set on a new one. So using the original loom and a wiring diagram he made a map and set about building me a new loom.
There were a couple of wire colours he couldn't find and some connectors he couldn't get, but using a similar colour wire and some of the connectors from the scrap loom a few weeks later a new loom arrived for me...
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The connectors at the front look awesome.
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Ed wired me in a new replacement Yambits fuse box.
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And even put up with my requests for connectors for the battery sub loom.
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I honestly don't know what I would have done without having been put in touch with Ed. What he has supplied me is even better than I could have thought, it looks just like Yamaha have sent me one, it really looks that good. Now if anyone is wondering if they can have one, Ed is a very busy man, but now he's done one and he has the loom map he may be able to find the time to make another so if you need to I can put you in touch with him and you can go from there.
All I have to do now is fit it to the bike.
unbelievable!! good stuff, shite it never ends on this thread. it's happy days all round!! keep it up.
Brilliant news on the new loom Steve,Ed's work is very highly rated on Aircooled forum and glad I could help in some way.Judging by the effort you are putting into this build it'll end up looking like it came out of the factory..Not sure if you have a paint sprayer lined up but i use one in Nottinghamshire..
Andy Flinders
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TZR-250-2MA-FULL-PAINTWORK-DECAL-KIT-/271241933207?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3f27477197
Pic of my paintwork
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/andy2bikes/motorcycle%20paintwork/SAM_0075.jpg" border="0" />
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My TDR125R
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Wow!! Great looking bikes! ;D
Where do you get the headlight brackets that fit the fat USD forks? I searched all over for mounts like those...
Oh, and nice looking wire harness too ;) I've got a guy in the states that can do them too, re-did the harness on my H2C and my A7SS. Looks new again ;)
Quote from: jcsnook on July 19, 2013, 04:32:48 PM
Wow!! Great looking bikes! ;D
Where do you get the headlight brackets that fit the fat USD forks? I searched all over for mounts like those...
Jezzzz had me racking my brain there as it's been 4 years since I purchased the brackets.I got them from M&P in UK,looking at the pictures' now on their website the Clamps are exactly the same as ones fitted to my RD but the Alloy Legs which the headlight mounts to are different.There is a small amount of adjustment to move the legs in or out but I had to have spacers made at work as the legs wouldn't come in enough to clamp headlight.There not cheap but they are quality made,"You get what ya pay for"so the saying goes.
http://www.mandp.co.uk/search?q=headlight+brackets
Thanks again Mick for putting me in touch with Ed. As for paint I actually have that all sorted, thought that would take the longest so set about with that first, turns out while it did take longer than I thought it hasn't thrown the timeline like other things have. Coincidently I'm a month behind now with the build.
More detail on paint will follow but I didn't use that sticker kit, wrong design. There is on eBay these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tzr250-1kt-complete-decals-set-era-of-rd-rg-nsr-dt-ns-rs-mbx-2ma-yam-/271226387699?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3f265a3cf3). They were taken from rubbings of my fairings and as part of the deal I got myself a free set to use. However things happened and I now won't be using these, nothing against them, just something else came up, but that is for a later update...
And out of interest the TDR125 didn't know they made that. What engine has it got in it TZR125L?
Thanks for the link Mick...I saved it as a favorite ;D They do look like quality parts!
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on July 20, 2013, 06:37:55 PM
More detail on paint will follow but I didn't use that sticker kit, wrong design. There is on eBay these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tzr250-1kt-complete-decals-set-era-of-rd-rg-nsr-dt-ns-rs-mbx-2ma-yam-/271226387699?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3f265a3cf3). They were taken from rubbings of my fairings and as part of the deal I got myself a free set to use.
And out of interest the TDR125 didn't know they made that. What engine has it got in it TZR125L?
So someone had put 1KT panels on your 2MA..??As you are correct the decals do differ between the models and because yours is a 2MA i linked that particular decal kit ;)
The TDR is made by Belgarda in Italy who also make the TZR125 4DL model.They are very rare in UK as they were never officially imported here.The engine is the electric start 3MB00 one as used in later TZRs and DTRs.The kit you see on bike is all standard,Brembo calipers front/Rear,Brembo rims,huge 320mm front disc....As much as i love it i could quite easy throw it in local river atm,it's had a problem for around a year now sometimes struggles to start and can just cut out as if kick switch is flicked.I've changed everything electrically,stator re wound,tried to start it yesterday and it felt locked solid..FFS crankcase full of fuel,pumped it out ripped carb to pieces again float working fine.Put it all back together and still won't start although this time plug isn't getting wet...Grrrrrr.......It's testing my patience but I won't let it beat me.....lol
I think the sticker design I have was used on both the 1KT and the 2MA. The design you linked was used on the 2XT and 2XW going from here (http://www.pure-2-stroke-spirit.info/node/12). The only fairings that were with the bike in the beginning were the rears for the design I'm using and they are the ones in the parts book for the 2MA so I got a set of front fairings to match and went from there.
My mistake i had assumed there was two different scheme for both models,having studied some photos today...........I'm wrong..lol.....
looking forward to seeing the bike complete hope you haven't been keeping tabs on cost of rebuild,i decided once my RD rebuild started going over 2 grand to forget cost..lol
Yep stopped counting a long time ago. Its costing me more than I thought it would, but on the plus side I got the bike for free at the beginning. Just hope its going to be worth it in the end as I've never ridden a TZR250 before...
It will be worth it , if its not ,I'll take it of your hands for nowt , il even collect
My project is also all most done. Just some problem with power of the TZR. I dont know what is wrong, all what i can check so far is ok; pistons, cylinders, YPVS works, carburators are clear like a new ones. But still can not get RPM over 9000. Torgue is ok to 6000, but when engine should start to "sing", it doesnt...if anybody has some idea what i still should check im thankfull. Could it be intake flaps, i dont know real name for those but you know flaps between carburators and cylinders. Maybe those are weak in case they are original. Maybe flaps are too weak to shut and open in syncro with strokes?? What do you think, should i change those even flaps looks like ok?
here is pic after rebuild and looooooot of hours :)
Sounds like your talking about the Reed Valves.
Not really got any advise for your problem, don't have the experience yet running these but that's a good looking bike. Just hope you solve it after all that effort.
To check if it is ypsv power valves... you could :
- disconnect the cable
- open and lock opened the ypvs (check through the exhaust port / pipe off)
- make a run
You should have no torque under 6000rpm and full power above till 10krpm.
If OK then put back the cable in the right order and you should have then torque on low revs and power above the 6krpm.
Sounds like PV or running rich.
Before I can get the loom on the frame there are a few other things that need to be reattached first...
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The side stand first. Had to shave some powder coat off of the bracket to get the stand to go on it. I forgot to get the spring bracket coated so Hammerited that. As a tip for reassembly attach the spring bracket to the stand bracket and then attach the springs, then pull the springs onto the stand. Doing it the other way round will just produce swearing.
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Oil tank and battery box back on. I used a mixture of old and new damper foam as some is no longer available from Yamaha. I reattached the old stuff with the hot glue gun.
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Slightly less cluttered view of the side stand and the cable routing that I recreated.
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So with that lot on and a few other bits I could start attaching the loom. Here it is at the coils much cleaner than when I took them off.
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Put the loom on and added the rear undertray which meant I could screw the fuse box back on.
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Then it was adding the additional electrics and connecting them up.
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All in the loom went on very well. A few times I had to take it off and reposition it to get it right and I still need to sort out the exact position in a couple of places such as the head stock. But this doesn't bother me I expect that I need arrange things a bit to get it right and the more parts that go back on the bike the clearer it should become. Very happy with how its looking at the moment.
Looking good :D I know that feeling after months and months of assing about its great to see something for all your efforts especially when you make a good job of it like you have . how's your engine coming along?
The engine has been powder coated. Just need to do the final prep on it checking bolt holes and do a dry build first to check it will go back together. Need to decide if I'm going to replace the gear selector drum bearing and then clean everything up. The crank should be ready shortly and I think I have all the bits I need here...
Looking right and tight 8)
Now for some more attention to detail, the rear brake light assembly and number plate mudguard.
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The original brake light wasn't very nice. It had been drilled for the LED from the alarm.
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And even a spare I picked up with a mudguard and brackets wasn't up to scratch. I kept the brackets as these had been modified for the alarm, but that was all. So with the spares back unit and the originals wiring I cleaned it all up.
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Then eBay unearthed a new lens cover so I had that for a bargain price. And stuck that on.
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Fully assembled the brake light unit is as good as new.
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So I married it up with the number plate mudguard I cleaned up earlier and some powder coated brackets (including one that I spent a little time bending back into line).
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And stuck it on the bike. But not before I added a set of new indicators as the others had a few road related marks on them. Interestingly the indicators are different part numbers for the left and right, but the only difference is the colour of the wires which did make plugging them in a little easier.
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And as for the detail, the tool kit retaining strap. The catches are a mixture of new and old Hammerited black. Just a shame I don't have the original tool kit.
Rear wheel is now in.
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But as usual there are one or two issues. Excluding the problem I have refitting the pillion footpegs to their hangers that I think I might have a solution to.
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The first is the exposed metal on the sprocket carrier. At first I thought it was not in quite right, but comparison with a spare rear I can see it is.
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The sprocket carrier was originally painted. But as I had it powder coated it was blasted back first. If I were to have had it coated I'm sure I would have had more fitment issues. I have thought of painting it, chuck a bit of Hammerite on it. But then that might give similar problems. So at the moment I'm thinking of leaving it. Besides once I get some miles on it I'm sure it will look like my spare with the lube fling.
Now for the other problem, the axel lock nut.
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The wheel is in correctly but isn't torqued up as that will be done when the chain is on. But as you may be able to see the lock nut for the axel nut is not fully on the axel as you can see a totally clean thread ring in the lock nut which indicates its never before seen the light of day while in use.
Now I don't think that this will be a problem as once the main nut is tight it shouldn't go anywhere and its only out by 1 thread. But its going to be playing on my mind.
But why is it like that I wonder. I've checked all my photos and I don't have one that shows the original fitment of the axel nuts but presume that the lock nut was right at the end of axel. I'm thinking that the thread has been lost due to the additional width I've added due to the powder coat. Though thin it all adds up, there is powder on both sides of the swing arm inside and out, both faces of the chain adjustment guides, and powder on the caliper hanger bracket. Not much but it all adds up.
So my options as I see them are to shave a load of the powder coating off of various places. Find a thinner lock nut. Or to replace both axel nuts with a single locking nut like on my SV. I'm thinking of the latter option unless anyone can suggest otherwise?
I am looking at this thread from the start
Nice work man , really love your enthusiasm to bring this back to life
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on August 10, 2013, 02:12:18 AM
Now for the other problem, the axel lock nut.
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The wheel is in correctly but isn't torqued up as that will be done when the chain is on. But as you may be able to see the lock nut for the axel nut is not fully on the axel as you can see a totally clean thread ring in the lock nut which indicates its never before seen the light of day while in use.
Now I don't think that this will be a problem as once the main nut is tight it shouldn't go anywhere and its only out by 1 thread. But its going to be playing on my mind.
But why is it like that I wonder. I've checked all my photos and I don't have one that shows the original fitment of the axel nuts but presume that the lock nut was right at the end of axel. I'm thinking that the thread has been lost due to the additional width I've added due to the powder coat. Though thin it all adds up, there is powder on both sides of the swing arm inside and out, both faces of the chain adjustment guides, and powder on the caliper hanger bracket. Not much but it all adds up.
So my options as I see them are to shave a load of the powder coating off of various places. Find a thinner lock nut. Or to replace both axel nuts with a single locking nut like on my SV. I'm thinking of the latter option unless anyone can suggest otherwise?
Just looked at my 1KT and mines is defo showing 1 thread longer than thin lock nut,I also had my swingarm,caliper carrier Powder coated but haven't removed any of it.I did have to remove coating from where caliper carrier bolts to caliper as it was out of line(off centre) with rear disc.I'd go with latter option and put a nylon lock nut on
Right, this update should have been quite good, with a nice bit of progress being made. However things did not go quite to plan.
But first a little good news. The tank bracket is on. Its taken a little longer than I expected as I needed to cable tie the mounting rubbers on. The trouble there was I couldn't find a cable thin enough to fit in the grove, but long enough to get all the way round. Eventually I tracked a bag of the right size down at my local Maplins.
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I also slipped the flasher relay on an pugged it in. The cable appears a little tighter than I would have wanted so will have to see if its going to get in the way at all or if I need to give the loom a bit of a giggle once more of the bike is together.
But now the bad news. This post should have had the front brake assembly completed in it however after completely rebuilding the brakes it all came apart at the last stage. All I needed to do was to put the new bleed nipple in and as it tightened it ready for the fluid to be poured in I noticed that it wasn't tightening.
The bleed nipple thread has stripped.
This leaves me a bit of an issue as I need to get the pistons and seals out to use in my spare caliper, but as I can't fill this caliper how am I going to do this?
If you have new pistons and seals they should just pull out if they are tight just try to blow them out with compressed air but keep a rag over them you don't want to see your new pistons flying across the room good luck ;)
The seals are new the pistons are originals, but cleaned up.
I do have a compressor but what sort of attachment can I use as there is no thread in there for me to create a seal with anything?
All you can do is hold nozil up to caliper by hand it should work you don't need much pressure.
I would have though it would need a fair bit of pressure, but I'm willing to try it...
I've seen it work on realy crapy calipers so yours will be smooth and free.it will not damage you're new seals or pistons so go for it good luck ;) if it does not work you can tap a new thread for any attachments then try again.
they will pop out easy with compressed air Steve the hardest job is to get all four moving at same time because if one pops out before all others have moved your stuck.I normally split the caliper into two halves so you only work on 2 pistons at a time.
If I split the caliper what would you suggest plugging the joining holes with?
On one side it'll only have the one fluid hole so you pump compressed air directly down hole,at work we fit a 6mm plastic air hose to air valve/trigger so it fits snuggly over hole.On the other halve with bleed nipple remove the nipple and blast air directly down it and using your hand to hold caliper put your finger over fluid hole to plug it..The pstion will 'pop' out quite easy oh and they do go with a pop when they fly out of housing
you can get a piston holder to get the pistons out of the caliper. Its not very expensive (around 15GBP) but it will save you a lot of time and you will use it again in the future for sure.
It saved me a lot of time all of these years.
I got something like this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/VS1806-Motorcycle-Piston-Removal-Pliers/dp/B000WZJ7NO
Highly recommended!
As far as the axle nut, you must remove all the powder coating from the wheel where the sprocket carrier sits. Also where the rubbers sit. I had the same problem before. Difficult task to remove the coating but with a dremmel it will take you around 30 minutes.
Did you get the pistons out ? Leave the disc pads in so that they push up against them as they release out , you will have more control over them that way and once they are protruding enough remove one disc pad and they will move further out .
Not yet. Just not had the time this week. The plan is to spend some time with the bike tomorrow so we shall see what happens...
Back on it after that technical delay. I took the caliper half over to Rolling Art (http://www.rollingartmotorcycles.com/) who fitted a Helicoil for me. The nipples that I had from Yambits (http://yambits.co.uk/) I didn't like, nothing wrong with them functionally but the nut on them was 7mm and I'm used to 8mm from working on my SV so much. So I logged onto Wemoto (http://www.wemoto.com/) and ordered a couple for an SV to use here along with some nipple covers.
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With the caliper half back with the repaired thread I wanted to remove the pistons to ensure there was no swarf in there. There was, so I'm happy I went to the trouble of doing it properly. Tried pulling them out with a slide hammer bit and some O-rings but that wasn't happening so I used my additional brake bleeder rig which consists of a spare master cylinder attached to a spare handlebar held in a vice. I joined this caliper half to a spare caliper half and quickly filled and pumped the pistons out of the side I wanted. Cleaned the half up and reassembled.
Now lets carry on as if that didn't happen...
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That was what I was starting with. Covered in grease and 20 year old fluid, the leaver was broken presumably in a crash, the pads were contaminated and the paint was coming off.
The first step was to take the master cylinder and strip it down fully. I've never taken a master cylinder piston apart before so it was a learning experience for me. So this is what the internals look like:
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The reason I wanted that out was that the paint on the master cylinder had flaked off over the years and looked awful. So I stripped it down including the brake switch that was damaged in removal (replacement sourced from eBay) and sanded the old paint down. I then masked it off and painted it using black spray on Hammerite. This process took a lot longer then I expected as the paint was taking 3 days to cure and would need 3 attempts to cover everything evenly. I thought it was the heat, but I think it was a fault can with a bit to much propellant in it. But in the end it was worth the wait.
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Once it was all dry I could reassemble the master cylinder using a new rebuild kit from Yambits. Getting the piston out wasn't too bad, once I'd prized the retaining rusted circlip out it really just popped out. So putting it back in should be easy right? Well... First you get the seals onto the piston then you put the spring and its seal in, followed by the piston. Steadying the housing with one hand you push the piston down with the other, and with your third hand you fit the new circlip. Yep bit of a problem there, but perseverance paid off and it was installed. Finally the cover is installed. I could now put that on the bike along with a new genuine leaver and adjuster bolts.
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Turning my attention to the caliper I had cleaned up the body and the pistons which were in surprisingly good condition. A new set of seals from Wemoto and they could go back in. The caliper half joining seals came from Yambits. Interestingly Yamaha in the workshop manual says not to disassemble the caliper into its half's and does not list the joining seals, and as such they do not provide torque settings for the joining bolts. So I opted for 35nm as that is what is used on an SV's rear caliper. If anyone would like to offer me a larger number with a reason I'm happy to up it on the caliper.
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Now the caliper was assembled with its pistons I could then install a new set of EBC HH front brake pads and Yambits retaining pins. The pad spring and cover was then added and the caliper installed onto the fork.
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Finally its a new brake line and HEL Performance (http://www.helperformance.com/) took my custom as I use their lines on my SV. I opted for a simple black line to keep a standard, but subtly modified look which fits my brief.
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Fluid has been added and the system and bleed, but I've not got pressure at the lever yet, I expect there is just some air trapped in the system as it new. So I've zip tied the lever back and will give it another go tomorrow, not bothered about this at the moment as I'm sure with a little more work it will be fine.
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Just need to do the same to the rear brake.
Coming along nicely and you are learning a lot. Do you have pressure in the lever now?
Yep got pressure. Just some trapped air as suspected. I will however give it another bleed before use, and so far no leaks...
Nice work! Is that Hammerite paint resistant to brake fluid? Most master cylinders and calipers I see restored are powder coated. I tried "Caliper Paint" on my TZR calipers, but have not been overly impressed with it. I can see it's already coning off.
I don't think Hammerite is advertised as brake fluid resistant, but in theory it shouldn't need to be. I've been as careful as I can be to keep it clean and have used brake cleaner to tidy up after myself. The calipers I have left with the original paint. There are some chips on them but I don't think its to bad so I'm happy to leave it as it was and see how it goes after all they are in a very venerable position and this bike is being built to be ridden.
Rear brake similar to the front. The master cylinder was in desperate need of some paint so again I stripped it down, but also again as I've never rebuilt a rear master and this is what the internals look like. Interestingly there was little fluid in here but lots of yellowy white powder I presume is dried brake fluid?
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At this point I discover no one does a pattern master cylinder kit so Yamaha luckily still makes them, but they are not exactly cheap. But putting new next to old really shows the difference.
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The installation of the kit for the rear is the same as the front, put the seals on the piston, put the spring, piston, and lever assembly into the housing and secure with a clip. In writing easy in practice I need a third hand, but once its in it seams so easy I'm left wondering why I managed to fire the piston halfway across the garage on one installation attempt.
Then it was the caliper. Again cleaned up it didn't look to bad, and again Yamaha do not want you to split it so 35nm was what I torqued up the joining bolts to. The original pistons were a little manky so I had some Yamaha NOS ones I bought for a good price and set about installing them.
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Which is when I discovered I'd got my part numbers muddled up and it was a pair of front pistons. So they go in the spares box and Yambits provided me a pair of pistons and seals.
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These were installed along with a set of new EBC HH pads and some SV nipples for their 8mm bolts.
Finally a rear HEL brake like joined it all up. This was a bit of fun to get the hose the right way round. It was a case of install check and then swap it round. I thought I had it correct and then checking for flex in the line discovered it was a little tight, a quick flip and it was fine.
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Not filled the rear up as I don't have any footpeg hangers and thus no rear brake lever. Once I have that then I can fill the rear system. But I have a quandary over that, more later.
However in other news I received a nice little phone call... the crank is ready.
Nice progress! 8) I'm doing the same on my brakes, also thought about the torque on the caliper joining bolts. From googling those kind of bolts generally require >25nm of torque so 35 should suffice. Think I'll opt for that number as well. :)
Sorry to nit pick , are you going to replate the axle , chain adjusters , bolts etc ? You have done a great job with all the other parts but these small details are detracting from the overall look .
Not going to replace the axel as I'm not sure where I'd get a new one from as it will only end up the same. The axel nuts will be replaced with a self locking nut. As for the adjuster bolts and nuts it had crossed my mine, but I'm not sure if they are anything special?
No no not replace , replate them with a zinc coating I think , makes them look new again .
Interesting... How do I do that?
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on September 06, 2013, 08:01:14 PM
Interesting... How do I do that?
There are "Do it Yourself" kits to zinc plate, but most people just send all their hardware to a plating shop and have it all redone. Looks like you have "replaced" much of your hardware already...
http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-tin-zinc-electroplating-system.html
Hi .There are many company's in the uk that replate all types of metal the process is called electroplating it is relatively cheap to have done.i got all my bolts and brackets/shock/ and spindles every thing on my bike done for about £80.it is very important that you prepare you're parts ie clean and degrease.i bead blasted and then wire brushed all parts it's a long job but you get a much better finish.it's also very easy if you have all your parts ready at the same time ie when your bike is totaly dismantled this is were you have a problem.you also need a company with a good reputation as i had one batch done and result was great then had another done by different company because they could do some othere work i needed at the same time but they cocked all my part up so had to start again with beadblaster :(.Here is some results after plating they were a mess befor ;) hope this is a help for you. Steve
This zinc plating looks really interesting and I've given it a lot of thought so thanks for the suggestion. However I don't think I will be doing it this time. I really want to get on and get the bike complete and this would involve taking a lot of bits apart again. I do have a plan to revisit it in a year after completion and I might do something then, I will keep this in mind for the next project though...
Hi squirrel how's the project coming along? Hope you have been busy on it ;)
Umm...
Yeah so not really done much to the bike recently. The front brake nipple is leaking, I think its from the nipple to the thread but cant be sure exactly. So I'm going to replace the caliper, was worth a shot at repairing it though. I have the rebuilt crank back so really have no excuses as to why the engine isn't done. Must get on and do something.
replace just the bleeder bolt,its not the threads that hold the fluid ,is the cone shaped end that has probably water damage surface
Its about time I actually do something isn't it? So Stretchie turned up to give me a hand...
We began the evening with a lower crankcase half that had a gearbox drum bearing that had been through the powdercoating process and I was concerned that there might be some blast media or loss of grease from the process. So that needed to be changed. Being careful not to damage the drum housing the old bearing was removed with my bearing puller, the case cleaned up and then the new bearing installed.
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So starting with a clean lower case the gear forks were slid in. Note the order and orientation of the selector forks.
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Next the drum and its retaining stopper plate is installed.
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And then the input and the output shafts are placed in the case. There are stopper clips on the shaft bearings that need to go in first and the output shaft requires a new oil seal provided by Yambits.
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Its hard to describe the way the selector forks line up with the shafts and the box but it was fairly obvious where things went and once everything was in we could spin the shafts and rotate the box to select different gears up and down the box finally resting in neutral.
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Next was to lube the freshly rebuilt crank with some of Castrols finest before adding new seals and then placing it into the case.
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So far so good. Then I discovered the gasket kit didn't contain the 2 O-rings at the front of the engine, part of the cooling system. Luckily Halfords was still open and their O-ring box set contained a perfect match. Next it was time to decorate the lower case with instant gasket before installing the upper case.
And this is where the problems started. After torqueing up the upper and lower bolts and declaring the case whole it was time to rotate the crank. This was moving freely. The gearbox however was not.
It was exceedingly stiff to move. Something was wrong. So going back through the process we could see nothing wrong. All we could do is to take it apart and check again. So with the cases separated nothing appeared wrong until I noticed that the input shaft left hand bearing was not seated exactly right. It appeared that the bearing was a couple of mm out and the stopper plate had done nothing. Reset the shafts checked the gearbox selected and there was no damage visible. Cleaned the gasket off and reapplied before again putting the top case on an torqueing up following the Yamaha manual.
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This time both gearbox and crank rotated cleanly and gears were selected.
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So the engine currently looks like that. Needs a lot more work but its a good start...
it is a good start and it looks mint ;)i love to see an old grotty engine look like new great work
Very nice you've set the standard for the rest of the work I see.
The clutch cover got my attention today. The original was scuffed up so I bought a replacement that wasn't damaged by the road and had that powdercoated with the rest of the engine. So I started out with an empty cover and a bag of bits.
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And from the inside.
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Installed the oil seals and oil sight glass from Yambits. Then put the clutch push rod in lubing this up with some oil and installing its retaining cover and oil seal. Oil strainer and oil pump were next, followed by the water pump impeller. I couldn't install the oil delivery pipe as two of the screws were damaged so need to wait on replacements. The problem is these screws are loctighted in and it would appear that I need some new impact driver bits. And as a further consequence the oil pump drive remains off.
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The two stroke pump was swapped over from the old cover which was interesting as the cover I was using didn't have one on it so I needed to do a little more work there then I was expecting moving a bush over and installing the oil seal.
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The only things remaining on the cover is to install the water pump cover and the oil pump cover. But the latter will have to wait for a bit.
And yes that is a chip by the kickstart seal. I had to shave off some powdercoat from it and the seal was being a little difficult, still not overly happy with it so might take another look at it at some point. But as I was driving it in the socket slipped and chipped. If only it was this easy to remove powdercoat where I don't want it... Anyway will tidy that up with a little black Hammerite before it will be installed on the bike.
The latest gap in the project was due to a mistake on my part. A fairly big one. The next job on the list was more engine work and the neutral switch was to be installed. The switch sits on the left of the engine as is basically a bolt that goes through the lower case and connects with a lump on the gearbox drum. When that connects the light comes on. However this bolt is made of plastic.
Being weary of over tightening the plastic bolt I thought the best thing to do was to tighten it up to 10mn, the minimum torque setting I have as nothing was listed in the manual for it and lets face it I don't want a bolt like that coming out.
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Unfortunately 10 was to much as the head of the bolt sheared off. This left the plastic shaft in the bolt hole. So it was time for a stud extractor. Trouble is it just kept spinning until finally it gripped. But then it was just spinning within the now hollow bolt. The was until I gave it one last turn. And cracked the lower crank case.
Stripped the engine back down and got a little help to remove the stud extractor and the remainder of the neutral switch. The resulting crack went through the neutral switch thread, to the balance bolt mount thread on the bottom, through the gear box drum bearing recess, to the pan and then heading back to its start point.
I nearly cried.
Took the crank case around to be looked at and left it with Rolling Art Motorcycles for repair. Glenn first dipped the case to remove the powder coat. Then he clamped the crack shut and welded it up. The inner weld was smoothed back, the out was left as it. But you will only see it if you know its there. The threads were still good so nothing was done there but I'll use some thread seal on assembly. And the gear box drum bearing housing was left untouched but checked that the bearing still seated correctly.
When I got it back I decided to paint it with some VHT enamel. It looks good but the paint doesn't appear to have taken to the metal as well as I hoped. We shall see how it goes once the bike is ridden.
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Forgot to do photos of the real damage. Bad memories. But did do one of the internal repair with a new bearing installed. You have to look very closely to see the crack. Time to build an engine again...
So back to engine assembly. We shall take the steps covered before as read and start the updates from an engine with crank and gearbox assembled with the crank cases united.
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As points of interest, it took two attempts to get the cases together as the first time the output shaft became quite tight and the gearbox noisy in neutral. I have no explanation for this as all I then did was disassemble remove the gearbox and replace it and all was good. Could not see any issue with it but obviously something wasn't quite right the first time.
A tip when installing the gearbox drum put the retaining plate in place before pushing the drum all the way in as it makes it a lot easier. I've also not actually installed the replacement Yambits metal neutral switch as the thread seal hasn't turned up yet. But 10mn is what I'll be aiming for again.
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So clutch bearing retaining plate was installed and then the shift cam and spring. A tip here is to set the cam on the bolt with the spring on the arm but not in the spring hole. Tighten the bolt and then position the cam arm on the drum. Tighten the bolt more while checking the arm movement until the bolt can be tightened no more. Now lever the spring into its hole. Tighten the bolt fully and check the cam position. Or at least that's how I did it.
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Now the shift shaft was inserted and lined up. I've decided not to change the tab washer as the bend I put in it shouldn't have weakened it, it shouldn't interfere with anything, and best let it be.
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Kick start mechanism slotted in nicely and once I had it all in I couldn't resist popping the lever on just to see how it worked, and to check it was all aligned.
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And with the kick start gear on it was even more interesting to see how it all worked. I should also add that all parts were treated to an oil bath before assembly.
So that's about as far as I am now. Just need to work out a way to lock the crank to get the primary drive nut tightened up. I know the easy answer is to use the same method I used to take it off, but I tried locking the crank as the manual suggest and some other method from what I remember before giving up an using the rattle gun. Suggestions please?
bad luck it seems...
At least you sorted it out nicely.
I use the wooden end of a hammer stuck between the first webb of the crank and the engine case. The crank cant spin or loose timing like that
I put a small piece of brass metal sheet between the 2 gears and than torque it down...
So thanks to advice here I used a 2p to lock the crank. But first, the neutral switch.
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Yambits supplied me with a new switch made of metal, and eBay found me some thread seal. So a good dab of that and 10mn had the switch installed.
With that in it was time for the stator and pick up to get back on board. I will tidy the wires up once its in the frame to get the rooting right and wire in the switch at the same time.
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Rotor went on next over the woodruff key and torqued up using a 2p to lock the crank. To do this I needed to put the outer and inner clutch hubs on and the clutch nut to keep it from pushing the outer hub off of its shaft as the gears rotated to lock.
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Then the primary drive was torqued up, again using the 2p. I checked that there was no damage to the teeth of the clutch and primary drive and save for a little bit of superficial copper none was found. Though I don't think I'd get that coin in a slot machine anytime soon.
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Next was the clutch outer hub, thrust washer, inner hub, lock nut, and nut. All oiled and torqued up. But no plates as I forgot to introduce them to oil in advance, so they should go in tomorrow.
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The lock washer and nut finished in an odd place, but that shouldn't be an issue. The cylinder head studs are. I need some new dowels so that will delay me a little but of the front 4 studs, 2 were easy, 1 was tough, and 1 is a couple of threads up as I don't feel like pushing it any more. The threads are clear but there is something arguing with them. The threads are correct and they are not damaged, and they loosen up a bit if I do the in and out with them. But this last one I don't want to risk trying to tighten it more. Will have to see what it looks like once the barrel is on.
Nice work
HM came to the rescue nicely there
Great work !
Why do you soak your clutch plates first ?
That is a good question.
It goes back to when I first started throwing spanners, Haynes (or the Great Book of Lies) said to. So I did. And its always stuck. To be fair I don't know why they said to but I don't think it does any harm as it is a wet clutch. I suppose its a way to ensure that they are nicely oiled before going into use?
Not as productive as I wanted to be today as something else came up. However the clutch is now in.
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The new EBC Heavy Duty friction plates from Yambits were oiled up and placed into the basket using the original plain plates. Starting with a friction plate, then plain, then friction, and so on.
Next was the new EBC Heavy Duty springs from Wemoto. Compairing these to the originals they were about half a coil longer than the originals, I would say this would be due to wear. The pressure plate was mounted with its actuating arm and bearing before the springs and original bolts.
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Tightening the bolts on the clutch up to 7nm was nerve racking as my torque wrench only goes down to 10nm, so I had it set slightly below that and eventually they all clicked round.
Now was time to build the barrels and the powervalves. After cleaning the valves up of the old coke deposits with WD40 and a little wet and dry I started on the right cylinder. New seals from Yambits were added and the valve greased up before inserting into the cylinder.
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I used the handle of an insulated pliers to lock the valve to tighten the joining bolt. And then it was a case of tightening the valve holder bolts on the outside of the cylinder. And this was where I had a problem. There was some I think blast media in the threads left over from the powdercoating process. This makes tightening the bolts difficult and there is a big risk of damage (see the lower yoke) removing this media is also a pain. So that's where I am currently. Just need to sort the thread out on the holders by which time I should have the stud dowels for the cylinders and so the pistons can go on...
To continue the story, I built the second cylinders powervalve today. Not a lot to show for that and fairly straight forward. The powervalves are different between the cylinders but it all goes together in a fairly logical order with new seals.
New studs and dowels that were needed were now on the engine and with the cylinders built it was time to get the pistons on.
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I cleaned up the pistons crown with WD40 and a little wet and dry, nothing harsh just to remove the carbon deposits. I've reused the piston pins but am using new small end bearings and circlips. The piston rings were checked at Piston Broke and were passed for use.
Getting the new piston circlips in was easier then the last time I tried it which was nice, but I still had the bottom end sealed up with tissue just in case. The small end, pin and bore were all lubricated with 2Stroke oil to help assembly.
Being sure that the piston rings were lined up I slipped the barrels over the pistons and seated them on the crank case. It was then time to break out the Yambits order and the new nuts to secure them.
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And no sooner did I have the barrels on I was taking them off again. Who in Yamaha thought that design was a good idea needs to write me a letter of apology. The problem is the two lower middle nuts. They are to close to each other and the cylinders overhang the nuts. So to get them tightened up I needed to remove the left barrel and its stud. Then using a crows feet spanner that I can attach to my torque wrench I tightened the nuts up.
Now with one cylinder on it was time to reinstall the left barrel. The opposite nut to the last problem one was just as much an issue on this one. I don't think the powdercoat helped as the extra thickness might have got in the way slightly. But still the design is a pain. Oh and one more thing I found that getting the lower outer nut on to the stud needed to be done before the barrel was fully seated as the cylinder overhang prevents the nut from going on.
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But finally both barrels were fully attached and torqued down. While I was doing this I regularly rotated the engine to check that nothing was misaligned. All felt fine as the pistons moved up and down as they should.
I also put the powervalve joiner on which ensures that both valves move at the same time, and checked the powervalve movement was free after assembly. There are a few little external bolts that I will need to tighten properly as I'm thinking of replacing them and I have also to put the powervalve housing and cover on.
I then built the top of the barrels with new studs and an OEM head gasket. The cylinder head was then installed with a Yambits nut kit and torqued up. With the head on I could rotate the crank and with my hand over the spark plug hole I could feel the suction and compression in the cylinders from the pistons, which was pleasing.
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Still got lots to do. I replaced the kickstart oil seal and have been doing some painting. Without tempting fate I have a feeling that the engine will be reunited with the frame in the next few days...
Great job so far mate! I wish you that your feeling comes true! It's always nice when two so close friends like the frame and the engine finally meet! :) :)
Cheers, Fanis
That is a beautiful restauration. Look forward to see the bike together.
How much did you pay for the rear Nitron shock?
Keep up the good work.
Geoffrey
Thanks for the comments, hopefully more updates later...
As for the shock I think it was £380 or there abouts. I bought it direct from Nitron as I needed to send them the original to work from. There are some sellers out there who listed a Nitron for a 2MA before I had mine made, not sure exactly but I think that might have something to do with the different shock linkage on the later models? But if you have the same linkage then Nitron can supply them, though I just checked on their website and the 2MA is not listed so I would give them a call if you are in the market.
Well that was painful. My arms currently look like a cross between self harm and drug addiction, and my back is killing me. It would have been much easier if I had some help with this bit or if I had some sort of hydraulic table lift, but no one was around and I didn't think of the lift (the type to raise Harley's or MX Bikes) so I had to do it the old fashioned way. If you don't know what I did today this before shot might help...
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It was a tight fit at the rear with the powdercoat as I had to shave a little off plus I haven't been able to fit the damper washer yet, but the engine is in. Unfortunately not without a slight mishap as it slid off of the jack when my back gave out and I lost grip of it. It slid down and rolled over, but stayed on the bench. I don't think there was any damage as it was gentle. The crank still rotates nicely so only time will tell but I can see nothing untoward on the cases.
But the engine is in an the cradle is on loosely. But I now need to take it out to fit the damper washers, however the plan for this is to remove one of the mounts lift the engine and insert the damper. Simple in its ingenuity, what can possibly go wrong?
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But if this doesn't work then I will be taking it fully out and trying again, but with some assistance. And as a note it was a lot, lot easier to remove the engine as it is light. However if you are holding it with one hand, manoeuvring it with the other and sliding the bolt in with your other hand it does start to get heavy quite quickly.
There is a reason that I have fitted the engine at this point even as I still have some issues with the clutch cover as the oil pump retaining bolts are playing up. Investigation is required there. But coming back to the point of the fitting I need to check the exhausts. I have a set of exhausts to go on, but they might need something doing to them. These are not the exhausts that I took of due mainly to them having a similar mass of the moon...
More bad news...
The exhausts I have don't fit.
Just lined them up on the bike and while I'm fairly confident that they are 2MA based on the history I have been given I think they will fit a race bike better. The side stand fowls the left chamber and the right foot peg mount is a little out I think they may have been used with rearsets before. Its a shame as I quite liked them.
So I'm now in the market for a set of pipes. I have pretty much decided what I'm going to do but have a couple more options to explore, any suggestions welcome.
Go for Martin77 exhaust ;)
Very good value for the money (event with a shipping to France for me)
Cheapest is to modify the ones you own. Check they fit the flanges first.
Looking very smart by the way
I have a cheap Chinese hyd jack that has wheels on it, it helps get the motor up there
I also did my back and had arms like Arnold for 2 days doing it by myself.
Enticing friends over with the promise of cold beer also works
Have a word with Kenny at TSA. He makes some awesome pipes and will fit them to your individual bike if you take it to him.
The oil pump bolt issue has been fixed and so the clutch cover is back on with a set of new cover bolts from Yambits. But I need a few more bolts to finish of the rest of the engine including the water pump cover as I've been and mislaid them. That is very unusual for me so they must be around her somewhere. I haven't been able to activate the clutch from the arm yet, possibly due to the heaver springs, so will have to wait until the cable is on and give it another go so I'm not filling the engine with fluid yet.
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Also put the generator cover on. Its a replacement that I cleaned and polished up.
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While I was round there I played with the wiring. Connected up the neutral switch and then worked on the generator wiring routing. I would recommend getting the wiring routed with the engine off the bike in future as there is not a lot of room to work. But eventually the generator was connected up to the loom.
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I also put some new exhaust studs onto the barrels. Again like the wiring it would probably have been a little easier to have done this with the engine off but at the time I didn't have them. They are just generic replacement studs but of a similar length and the correct pitch.
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Now I was in two minds about putting the next bit up yet but I was so pleased I just have to share. Some other bits haven't been going to well so when I saw this I was very happy.
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Yep I have some exhausts now. Martin77 kindly built me a set of chambers and Dennis Trollope Racing provided a pair of TZ250 silencers via eBay. Even nicer than the set of pipes I was originally going to use.
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The springs look really trick. I need some new nuts though and due to the thickness of the mounting plate and the studs I'm using a 1mm or 2mm washer just to space it out. Might also use some thread lock on them to be safe.
Martin wanted me to check the clearance at the rear shock linkage as his jig is based on a race bike so they are usually raised at the rear. I'm sticking with the road set up for now.
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Left clearance looks good. And the side stand also clears the pipe.
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Clearance on the right also looks good.
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Have to share this one of the header and first bend as it really does look nice. Its seeing parts like that which makes it worthwhile.
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And finally an idea of how it will all look together. Now all I have to do is take them off and paint them with some VHT black. Almost a shame to do that but it will protect them while in use.
Just waiting for Yamaha to send me some carb parts. Sort the engine balance bar out as its giving me problems. Oh and source a set of induction rubbers as so far people cant quite understand what an undamaged set actually look like. I have more than one set here that are only fit for the bin.
It was a pleasure to help Steve :) a very nice build so far... roll on springtime!
You can get clear vht paint , beautiful bike !
It has been a little while since there was an update here. I have been doing some little bits in the background but I've mainly been waiting for parts these past few weeks. The Christmas break didn't help and I'm still waiting for some last few bits and discovering more that I need. Anyway to keep the momentum up, here is a little something I've been working on...
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The original carbs. I did think of finding a replacement set and using them but felt that it would be worth having a look at what I had.
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So I opened them up, with the use of a Dremel to cut a couple of rounded screws off and this is what I found.
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The observant among you may think that these carbs are being stripped down in a bath tub. You would be correct. Where else would I do this sort of work?
Anyway, I thought that cleaning them up might be worth a shot as I'd read about ultrasonic cleaning. Trouble is I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. So after considering buying one, I decided to take the pair of carbs into Rolling Art Motorcycles as they have the unit and fluid. So after the carbs spent a day in the cleaner I had something that I could work with.
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So I started off with the needle slide and a replacement needle set.
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Oddly enough at the end of the needle replacement I was left with a couple of bits from the kit. Suggestions please...
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Another point of interest was the throttle stop screw. It would appear the Yamaha has changed the design. The original is on the right, the new kit on the left. I've decided to go with the new kit as the original was quite rusty, but useable and I was actually surprised was not seized when I removed it.
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So anyway here is the main body freshly cleaned up and blasted with the compressor with a new needle valve seat fitted.
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After that the float and pin went in and the float height checked. Both carbs float height were within service limits without alteration.
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The bowl bottom with a new drain screw, gasket, and screws were fitted to the main body and the slide put into the body.
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And the carb was built once the top was put on. I had to cut a new section of pipe as the original was as hard and brittle as one of my Mothers cakes. Steve Lynham Motorcycles (http://www.stevelynhammotorcycles.co.uk/) supplied the pipe from their miscellaneous box of bits.
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Both carbs are now bagged up to keep them fresh while I wait for the intake rubbers.
And I almost forgot, I built a new choke assembly.
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New plunger kit and cables were installed to the original choke lever and case. Just need to add a little grease for the slide and install them to the carbs once I have them ready to go on the bike.
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But until then they are bagged up like the carbs...
Nice! Bet those fresh carb internals will save a lot of headache later! 8)
you just know its gonna be a cracker. fun fun and more fun
More work has been done...
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Firstly the Thermostat was cleaned and placed into the head.
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This enabled me to put the cover or Thermostat housing on with some new ally cap head bolts I happened to discover in the garage. A new set of NGK plugs went in and the were connected up, I even checked the spark gaps which were spot on.
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I also tightened up all the engine mounting points once I received the last remaining parts I needed for the balance bar. Basically I'd muddled up a couple of bolts and confused myself. Plus the addition of the nut that I replaced when I accidently removed the welded one having a different pitch didn't help. Anyway most of these mounting points required some thread lock and a nice amount of torque so hopefully they wont be going anywhere.
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I also built the right foot peg up and mounted that. I was able to reuse the brake lever as it was undamaged, just needed a going over with some Autosol and a bit of wet and dry to remove some odd yellow covering that reminded me of dried brake fluid.
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At the same time I put the brake switch in (on the second attempt, thankfully I had a reference picture as I was way out on length for adjustment). But I have no idea what the little tab and hole is for which can be seen directly in line with the exhaust bolt and the end of the switch?
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I have managed to misplace the coolant drain bolt and a couple of the water pump cover bolts, but my local bolt supplier had some of the right design and pitch but the wrong length. So I cut them down. Interestingly I tried ordering a replacement drain bolt from Yamaha but the one I ended up with was the wrong size, I think they may have changed part numbers over the years and some of the detail has been lost. Anyway a new cover gasket.
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This enabled me to put the cover on and finish up on the clutch cover once I put a new Yambits clutch cable in.
Some of you may remember the problem that I had with the front brake caliper, basically after rebuilding it I manage to strip the nipple bolt thread. Had it helicoiled but discovered it was leaking. So I needed to replace the caliper. Luckily I had a spare that I ended up with when I bought a replacement spindle. Unfortunately it was rather seized. After managing to get 2 of the pistons out I was stuck with the remaining 2 on the other side and to avoid a fit of rage I put the caliper to one side.
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The trouble here was that there was still a little brake fluid in the caliper that I hadn't noticed and it leaked out.
Coupled with the general chips from use, it wasn't something I was happy to put back on the bike. A check of eBay presented me with a number of similar looking replacement options. So I came up with the idea of repainting it myself.
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Another search of eBay gave me some VHT caliper paint in gold. And thus a can was ordered. But I needed to remove the old paint first. And so a cunning plan was formed, brake fluid strips paint, I have some old brake fluid...
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And so the caliper was left to soak in some old fluid for a few days. If I'm honest I was slightly disappointed with the results. Yes the paint was lifted in some areas but not all and it was still very much on there.
But the fluid had weakened it, or that's the best way I can describe it. The paint is very soft and with a little scratching from a pick and some wet and dry I have made a good impact on it with little effort.
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The caliper is back in the fluid now. I'll have another go in a few days. Hopefully the remaining paint will be softened enough by then that it will come off with a little more light sanding. Then it will be a good wash and clean up before I give it a go with the paint.
I've been doing a couple of other things, but have spent a lot of time waiting for some parts that finally arrived this week. But first now I have built the carbs, its time to connect them to something. Some thing like...
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A new set of throttle cables.
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And a new pair of powervalve cables.
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So I connected them all up with the powervalve servo and the carbs ready to fit to the bike.
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The reed valves were stripped and cleaned. And after careful consideration I have decided to stick with the standard and original reeds.
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So the blocks were built. The only bit I needed was the intake rubbers. The originals were cracked. The first set of replacements were split on the balance tube mount but wasn't obvious and the second set of replacements had the oil intakes removed for reasons unknown to me.
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Now Yamaha still have these intakes for sale, but they are far from cheap. But after a couple of weeks wait a pair arrived for me from Malaysia via eBay. Not cheap, but I got the pair for roughly the same price as one.
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And so I fitted the reed blocks, spacers, gaskets, and inlet rubbers to the engine. The bolts are the originals and will be replaced so there are not torqued up. I thought I had replacements but not so. Will be in my local bolt shop on Monday, I have a feeling though that I will be cutting a few bolts down to length.
With the intakes on it would be rude not to fit the carbs now wouldn't it?
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So I did.
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New clamps from Yambits to hold the carbs on. Plugged in the oil feed tubes, and discovered some damage to the ends of them that I didn't spot when I dismantled them. Will have to see what can be done about that later.
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Next was to put the cables and servo on. In the picture above the throttle cables are not routed quite right, but it gives you some idea of the first attempt. I don't have a good picture of the correct (or at least what I'm going with) routing at the moment.
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The oil pump was hooked up. Needed to tap the cable hole as the some powdercoat had closed it up at the end but it wasn't to difficult.
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And the powervalve cables were connected. All the cabling needs proper setting up, but for now all I'm interested in is getting the routing right and the bits on the bike.
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A new twist grip and switch gear has been sourced as the originals were well used.
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With them on the bike I could attach the throttle cable. And already there is a good turn and snap back action.
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I've also done the same to the left. New switch, lever and clutch mount, with the cable attached. Again I'm getting a good action at the lever, but I know it needs proper adjustment and positioning.
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The original airbox has been cleaned up and polished to bring the nice black colour back to it. I also have a new filter and sealing rubber. But there was no rubber originally and a test fitting did not go well. Might have another go later.
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But for now the airbox is on. I think I have the rubber tubes in correctly, though I do need some replacement clamps for the rubber to carb mount.
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I've not oiled the filter yet as I will need to remove the box and carbs for mounting bolt replacement and new clamps. But this photo does have the correct routing of the cables.
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And with the airbox lid on, the bike looks a lot closer to being ridden. But it is still a little way off, the exhausts for example are not actually on the bike at the moment...
Nice work
Yambits sell oil pipes. Clear so you can check pump action initially. Then you always have a visual.
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on February 02, 2014, 02:47:03 AM
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At the same time I put the brake switch in (on the second attempt, thankfully I had a reference picture as I was way out on length for adjustment). But I have no idea what the little tab and hole is for which can be seen directly in line with the exhaust bolt and the end of the switch?
The "tab" is for the rear brake lever return spring which runs parallel to the brake light connection spring and hooks around the same "bar" that protrudes inwards from the rear brake pedal.
Hi squirrel hunter your doing a great job. If you use a soft wire or copper wire brush on the rest of your rear brake lever it will get rid of the remaining yellow stain ;)
I found when I rebuilt my 3xv that there was nothing better than the feeling you get when you start putting all the new bits on and working with clean new stuff so I'm happy for you.if your not happy with your paint stripping results I can bead blast for you at no cost except your postage ;)
I've been meaning to ask for over 12 months do you actually hunt squirrels? ???
We just shoot the little fuckers off the garden fence >:D
Quote from: stevewr250 on February 02, 2014, 01:28:39 PM
I've been meaning to ask for over 12 months do you actually hunt squirrels? ???
We just shoot the little fuckers off the garden fence >:D
hahaha, i thought the name refered to "panty squirrels" those nice little fluffy creatures.
Quote from: Paul on February 02, 2014, 05:58:50 AM
Yambits sell oil pipes. Clear so you can check pump action initially. Then you always have a visual.
Good point, thanks. I think I may have actually ordered some as well...
Quote from: Tom Mac on February 02, 2014, 12:01:37 PM
The "tab" is for the rear brake lever return spring which runs parallel to the brake light connection spring and hooks around the same "bar" that protrudes inwards from the rear brake pedal.
I thought it was something like that but I don't remember taking anything off of there and I can't see anything listed in the parts manual. At the moment the rear brake is empty but the peddle does spring back nicely. Have you got a pic or anything of the setup?
Quote from: stevewr250 on February 02, 2014, 01:28:39 PM
If you use a soft wire or copper wire brush on the rest of your rear brake lever it will get rid of the remaining yellow stain ;)
Will give that a go, thanks.
Quote from: stevewr250 on February 02, 2014, 01:28:39 PM
if your not happy with your paint stripping results I can bead blast for you at no cost except your postage ;)
Thanks for the offer will see how it goes.
Quote from: stevewr250 on February 02, 2014, 01:28:39 PM
I've been meaning to ask for over 12 months do you actually hunt squirrels? ???
We just shoot the little fuckers off the garden fence >:D
Nope. The name has long lost its original meaning over the years. I actually answer to Squirrel in real life.
Quote from: Paul on February 02, 2014, 02:12:45 PM
hahaha, i thought the name refered to "panty squirrels" those nice little fluffy creatures.
Well that was an interesting 5 minutes on google...
Impressive work Squirrel! Love the attention to detail, keep the pix coming!
Back to the exhausts. Used some random washers I found in the garage to space the flanges over the threadless part of the studs but needed some more. So of to my local fasteners suppliers Allcap (http://www.allcap.co.uk/) they didn't have any washers of the correct thickness but they did have some spacers that they supply to Honda just down the road. So I bought a couple.
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Then I thought about it and decided that having some loose washers on the flanges might not be the best idea. So took the flanges and spacers into Rolling Art Motorcycles (http://www.rollingartmotorcycles.com/) and had them welded on. Much more secure.
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A few cans of black VHT later the exhaust were ready. The flanges were sealed to the pipes with some gasket that was rated as VHT 350 degrees should be good enough I hope.
I gasketed up the flanges and stuck them onto the pipe. Then loosely mounted the pipe onto the cylinder head and the foot rest hanger to get the position correct. Next the springs were remounted. Now the exhaust was set up I could remove it from the engine to put the gaskets on.
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A little tip, a bit of grease can be used to hold the gaskets onto the cylinder head while you mount the pipe. With the exhaust gaskets on the pipe could be mounted and the nuts and bolts torqued up.
I was a little disappointed that I needed to paint them, but I think they have turned out quite well and am happy with the results. I even like the little bit of gasket that has oozed out around the flange.
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I intended to do a little more but the radiator needed another lick of paint on one corner so that will have to wait. So in the mean time I put the front subframe on.
Coming along great! As others already mentioned, you pay great attention to detail! Keep on mate!
Cheers, Fanis
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on February 02, 2014, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom Mac on February 02, 2014, 12:01:37 PM
The "tab" is for the rear brake lever return spring which runs parallel to the brake light connection spring and hooks around the same "bar" that protrudes inwards from the rear brake pedal.
I thought it was something like that but I don't remember taking anything off of there and I can't see anything listed in the parts manual. At the moment the rear brake is empty but the peddle does spring back nicely. Have you got a pic or anything of the setup?
Part no 90506-20389 shown as item 4 on the attached section of microfische page.
I see what you mean now. I thought that #4 was the brake switch spring. But looking at the fiche the spring for the switch is not a separate part. I have the switch spring connected to #2 but it would appear that there should be another spring on there then.
Interestingly there wasn't a spring there when I took the bike apart and at the moment it springs back fine, might have a look to see if I can still get one then. Has anyone got one on their 2MA?
The calipers that I wanted to paint... Well they went back in the brake fluid were sanded down a bit more, redipped and sanded again. Overall I'm a little disappointed with the power of brake fluid as a paint stripper. Yes it does take the paint off eventually but not as cleanly as I imagined.
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So I had them as clean as they were going to get. I then masked off the mating surfaces, the bolt holes, and the piston recesses.
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Then gave them a few coats of VHT Gold Caliper Paint I found on eBay. Once the paint was dry I then completed the process by baking them in the oven for an hour.
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Overall I think they've come out quite nicely. The finish isn't perfect and after baking the paint isn't as smooth as before, not sure why. But I am happy with them.
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Just need to take the old caliper off and swap the pistons and seals over now.
So I've been doing things other than painting calipers, I've been painting a radiator. And then sticking it on the bike.
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Black VHT was the order here. The same that I used for the exhaust pipes.
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And yes that is a set of Samco hoses. No real reason other than I thought it would be nice.
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After that I replaced the damaged original oil feed pipes with some clear Yambits pipe. While I was down there I replaced the inlet rubber bolts with some stainless items. I also attached the airbox to the carbs with the clamps that I was waiting for from Yamaha.
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Built the gear change footrest. I needed a new lever as the original was damaged and the replacement wasn't from a TZR250. Not sure what it was from but it wasn't going to fit. So back to eBay and a good lever turned up. Replaced the rubbers and gave it a clean up before putting it all together.
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Then it was time to put the clocks on and hook up the speedo cable.
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I also bought a new horn from Yambits so that was fitted at the same time.
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Then it was the headlight. I intended to use the original and had the rim powdercoated, but then I found a new genuine headlight for a good price with the original backing cover on it that was one of the things missing from mine.
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So reusing the original mounts I put the headlight on. Just need to sort the bolts out as they are not bike bolts on that lap at the moment and it just doesn't look right to me.
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And with the headlight on I began the task of connecting up everything. It went mostly well, muddled up one connector but soon discovered what I had done. The only problem is I now have an extra connector and I don't know why. Its either the brown or one of the black wires. Or I maybe wrong who knows. I need to read the wiring diagram and see what I can find...
Indicator?
Dan
It would appear following some reading of the wiring diagram the brown wire and one of the black wires is for the indicator. I may have an extra black wire. More checking and the multimeter are in order...
I wouldn't appear that it could be the indicator because maybe Dan told you 12 hours earlier? Lol
Don't think so. I have 3 empty connectors 2 black 1 brown. I know that a set of indicators need to go on and I have 2 empty connectors on the other side. So on the left even with the indicators plugged in I still think I have an extra black wire...
So I took the pistons from the old caliper and the seals and swapped them over to the freshly painted caliper. Though I could not get one set of dust seals in no matter what I tried, so I ended up ordering replacements that went straight in with no issue whatsoever. Pistons and seals in the caliper half went back together and the pads and pins were installed before I refitted it to the fork and filled the system up.
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I tied the lever back again to help with the air removal and to check the nipple again. Had some rag round it to be sure as this was what confirmed the leak last time. And after 24hrs the inspection reviled the nipple and caliper to be dryer than a nuns excuse me.
While I was throwing brake fluid round the garage I thought it was about time I sorted the rear system out and filled that up also. A collection of zip ties to the bench kept the lever on overnight.
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The next update is rather riveting. The chain that is.
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The chain came with a split link, but I would rather have a rivet link in there. My local bike shop Artdeans (http://www.artdeans.com/) who I order lots of parts through had a rivet link for me. And I get to try out my new chain riveter.
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I got a DID type riveter from Yambits. I've used them before but never done it on my own. First step was to press the plate over the pins with the tool plate and the tool set to the A setting. A 27mm spanner holds the main body of the tool and a 19mm socket on a breaker bar does the work of clamping the plate down.
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Then with the plate seated the tool is swapped to the B position and the rivet pin used to crush the chains pins. With the tool fully tightened on both pins the chain is riveted.
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I checked the chain for movement at the link and it all felt fine. The rivet link was from a 520 gold O-ring but used without the O-rings as the rest of the chain is not. The pins are the same length so it all fits. And with the link being gold its easier to see when you've done a full rotation for lubing purposes. The rivet pin in the tool cracked and so I cant take it out at the moment. I do know that these are a consumable but a little disappointed it went on the first go. But I'm not that bothered as I don't need to swap it round for the removal of a link as the only time I need to remove a chain is when its at the end of its life and at that point the angle grinder is the best chain removal tool I have.
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With the chain on and the rear brake filled I thought it was about time to put the cans on properly. So used a little gasket that sealed the flanges to be sure that no gas leaked at the join as I wouldn't want anything like that to come up on the MOT.
And as I write this the new battery is on charge...
With a fully charged battery the first thing I did was to put the front sprocket nut and lock washer on. 90nm was the setting which is difficult to achieve as the rear wheel just slips. Luckily Stretchie (not of this parish) showed up with some additional down force. With him sat on the bike I could get the nut tightened.
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And this now meant that the front sprocket cover and the gear change can go on.
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Now it was time for the battery to be connected. And the ignition was turned on. I was greeted with nothing. Not a bean, or to be more precise no powervalve servo action and no lights at the dash or headlight. Queue the fault finding.
First thought was a faulty switch. I'm using a second hand switch so used the original. But this made no difference. Checked the switch, the handlebar switches, and everything at the front. All I found was on the dash loom connector the negative was on the wrong pin. It was fairly easy to swap over to the correct location. Trouble is still no electrics.
More investigation and wire wiggling and finally the dash sprung to life. And with a little more so did the rest of the bike and the powervalve. The source was the fuses in the main fuse box. They were showing good by all tests but when I removed one it fell apart. The fuses were replaced and all was good.
Now the other problems and solutions. First was the coolant. filling the system resulted in a leak. The seal in the thermostat wasn't working. Trouble is the seal is not a separate part and the thermostat is a tad on the expensive side. So and I admit this is straying into bodge territory some instant gasket was used to seal it. The following morning it was dry, the system filled and so far no leaks.
The other issue was the powervalve servo not moving the valve properly. After some investigation the issue was located. It was my fault entirely. I screwed up the rooting of the cables.
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Firstly the above is the correct cable positions at the servo. I somehow had managed to have the cables both going to the same side.
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And the next thing was to ensure that the cables cross over. It looks wrong but is correct. There is even numbers on the cable housing and the servo to help. I will try the lack of clarity on the housing following powdercoating as to the reason, rather than oversight on my part.
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Finally the cables were fully adjusted and sealed up.
Then it was to fill the engine with gearbox oil and the two stoke to the tank. And bleed the oil pump. Slight issue here as the electronic copy of the manual is missing the couple of pages that cover pump bleeding.
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The short answer is with everything set up, open and close the throttle to activate the pump with the bleed screw in the centre of the picture open it and wait until the oil comes through with no bubbles.
If you are looking for some better descriptions try the manual for the TDR250. Its the same engine so the same instructions. Its what I needed to resort to.
And now the bit that we have all been waiting for... The first starting.
I decided to use some premix as the oil wouldn't make it in just yet and I didn't want to risk any damage. 400ml of petrol and 20ml of oil. Added to that was a little kicking effort and well. The petrol overflowed the right carb and spilled out of the overflow pipe. But this cleared up on its own and hasn't spilt anything after the first little bit.
I have some videos of the attempts but lets just say it doesn't make for good children's television. If I can workout a way of editing it then I will post it up. If not then I will try and have another go soon.
Basically its alive! But just.
It will only start on the choke. It dies once the choke is off. If I blip the throttle it dies. It doesn't idle well, and if it try's to it just dies off after a few seconds. The right cylinder is smoking more then the left, though both are just running from the same premix source.
I'm thinking it a carb set up issue. But having never done this before I need some pointers please?
nice update
it sounds flooded
i use a drill on the flywheel
i have had it before after a rebuild
you are very lucky though as you have life, so its small finishing touches now
If it were flooded would it not start at all?
I've also been suggested the pilot jets. Will take them out and have a look.
Anything else to check?
It does sound like something in the idling circuit , check the pilot jets and the passages .
Can you blip the throttle with it on choke ?
I've been in the garage and have stripped the carbs down again and think I have a good idea as to what is wrong, but first to answer a couple of points. There is no mixture screws however there is an idle adjustment screw. In the earlier pictures I compared the old and new design of screw and am using the new one. Also in earlier pictures the needle set had a couple of additional parts, I have a feeling these are due to the kit being used in later models where things have changed, but there is backward compatibility.
However what I think is the issue was what was suggested by epa police, Sid Squid (not of this parish), and Neal. The pilot jet.
It would appear that I made a slight oversight and mistook the pilot air jet for the pilot jet. The air jet I removed after cleaning and reused as it looked fine. I missed the pilot jet which is hidden under some plastic pipe behind the main jet. And having inspected one jet forgot that there was another.
So tonight I removed the pipe to take a look at the pilot jet and it is covered in the varnish from the old fuel. It looks like the pipe prevented the pilot jet from being cleaned. I don't have a picture of this due to the size and position of it but both were well clogged. Additionally I can't remove the jet as it is very stiff and I don't want to risk damaging it and preventing its extraction.
The plan now is to get the carbs ultrasonically cleaned again without the pipe. Remove the pilot jet and stick a new one in. Might be a few more days before I fire it up again, but that gives me some time to sort a couple of little bits out. Watch this space.
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on February 27, 2014, 02:55:02 AM
I can't remove the jet as it is very stiff and I don't want to risk damaging it and preventing its extraction.
Had this with my mates TDR,the brass slot was starting to break up because jet was so tight,we carefully used a plumbers blowtorch to heat the outside housing area where pilot jet is screwed into and it freed off the jet.
I have also put stripped carbs in boiling water to free off components with good results.
I've had to drill out pilots before on some old Kawi triple carbs. Carbs that have sat around for 40 years and had buggered screw heads. I like the boiling water idea!
Great detail in this account of your rebuild - seems a very thorough job!
Regarding the few bits left over from the needle valve kit - I too am confused by the 2 plastic washers. No sign of any of these in either of the 2 sets of carbs I've had. Maybe used in another model application? The yellow plastic moulding goes under the bottom of the carb return spring if you were wondering about that.
Keep up the good work!
Quote from: tzar250 on March 01, 2014, 08:35:07 PM...I too am confused by the 2 plastic washers. No sign of any of these in either of the 2 sets of carbs I've had.
Are those plastic washers about 0.5mm thick? They could be used to fine-tune the needle position; e.g. with the clip in position 2, you could fit a washer beneath the clip to effectively end up with the clip set to position 2.5.
Moving the clip by one position is quite a coarse adjustment, so it can be handy to be able to move it by only half a position.
Perhaps the washers are now included with all "genuine" Yamaha needle kits - can anyone confirm?
Regards,
James
I think you may have the answer there.
Took the carbs back to Rolling Art to be ultrasonically cleaned. Glenn apologised for missing it the first time, but its no bother as I had missed it too. Anyway pilot jets removed and the carb recleaned I pick them back up.
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Decided that new pilots would be best considering the state of the originals as can be seen above, new on the bottom, old on the top.
So blasted them out with air. Rebuilt them and stuck them on the bike.
Slight problem. Cant start it now.
At most got a couple of tiny puffs and that's been it. Choke on, off, open throttle, closed throttle. Nothing.
Swapped plugs. Checked their spark. Nothing. There is fuel in the float chambers.
Ideas please?
Not sure if its right or not but I squirt some petrol directly into the back of the carb with the throttle open, then try and start. If it runs then dies then it's probably still a carb issue? You done such thorough rebuild job though it probably just needs its throat cleared... :)
ybk, you may be onto something...
So I've spent most of the week trying to start the bike. My shin is not a pretty sight. But no dice. So had a quick word with one of the mechanics at Artdeans who suggested a couple of little things. The first was that it just needed the reeds wetting, an introduction to starting if you will. And to assist with the introductions, some carb cleaner straight down the intakes.
With a squirt of carb cleaner the bike fired into life on the first kick. But then died off quite quickly. It was burning through the carb cleaner but not taking any petrol in.
So the next thing to try was to cover the air intake to force it to suck through. Carb cleaner to get it started and then hand over the carb and it starting running up. The more I did this the longer it would run for so much so that I began trying to set the idle. But the results were very erratic.
Something is still not right. It dies off a little to quickly and isn't really settling down. The strangest thing is that if I cover the intake on either side the revs shoot up to around 7k and starts to climb higher but I don't fancy letting it redline yet so am knocking it off early.
It is running off the petrol/ oil premix and the oil from the pump (there is still some of the old oil coming through. But it is just gargling to an end unless I prevent air getting into carb which is then allowing it to smoke up more.
So has anyone else got some ideas of what to try and play with?
Also has anyone got any base settings for the idle? Turns out from fully in would be good. I can just fine tune from there, but at the moment I have do idea how far out I am and if it just needs a little fine tuning and running.
The fact that it revs out when you choke the intakes suggests an air leak. Normally it would go very rich and stall, so it must be pulling air in from somewhere else. Is the fuel tap vacuum pipe been closed off?
No the fuel tank vacuum pipe is unconnected to anything as I'm running off of a remote tank. Should I block this off or leave it open?
Yeah air leak is something I've been wondering about. But the gaskets and rubbers for the intake are all new, but that's not to say there isn't a problem there. However how would I locate the air leak?
By the way those pipes sound fantastic. The crackle they give off is the sound I have longed to hear again for years.
One bit of promising news however is that while I did have it running I decided to knock it into gear, and... The sidestand cut out switch works.
Also if I have it running with the sidestand up and then I put it into gear gently letting the clutch out gives me some forward momentum. This indicates that I have at least 1 gear in the correct direction.
Ah...well there's the first thing to do, bung up the vacuum pipe! then try again... that alone will cause a very lean and high idle.
The pipe's sound even better in the powerband ;)
Good news I think Martin77 got it with the vacuum pipe suggestion. Also had a chat with Dave from Artdeans who confirmed this was defiantly something that needed looking at and gave me a couple of additional pointers if that didn't yield positive results. But it did!
Blocked the pipe off and kicked it over. Was a little hesitant at first and needed some blocking of the right carb initially but after a couple of seconds the revs though high were stable. And so out came the screw driver and the idle adjustment.
After a few minutes I had the bike ticking over at about 1,800 rpm. Its still smoking a fair bit as its on the premix as well as the pump but better to be safe. Might start reducing the amount of oil in the premix.
Need to get the air box back on and hopefully the starting will be better, hopefully it was just needing the introduction to starting. I had it ticking over for a few minutes plus a few start stops, with it starting on the first kick.
Also can confirm the temperature sensor is working.
Umm... Its still not perfect. Starting needs either carb blocked off with or without the choke. Needs a bit off warming up before its stable as well.
From what I've learned with the vacuum pipe, it suggests an air leak? But everything feels tight and I can't feel any drag like I get blocking the intake. Worse case is crank seals, but I hope its going to be something simpler. Trouble is I'm not sure where best to start looking and how best to locate the air leak?
Have you tried it with the airbox in place? does the choke make much differance? (just wondering if the choke jets are still blocked)
Yes didn't make that clear, airbox is now on with a new oiled filter in. Choke on or off no difference in starting. I did blast them with air and the choke plungers are new.
I had a similar problem on my 3xv but only on one cyclinder after a hundred carb removals i removed the reed block as i had fitted a new gasket but dry, so i gave the reed block gasket's a smear ot threebond sealer and i had a great improvement so i must have had an air leak in the gasket.
This did not cure my carb problems but it was a major improvement.
I know how you are feeling after the pure joy of final assembly it brings you down to earth with a bang when you get teething problems but take it bit by bit actually it is good practice, now i can take carbs off blindfold and in minutes.hope this helps and good luck.
Steve
Yep taking those carbs on an off is a 2 minute job. But I am starting to think that I might take the instant gasket route as its a fair assumption that its an air leak and the reed block is a good possibility. But it does seam like a bit of a hack. Any other ideas or suggestions out there?
Warm the bike up so its able to idle then spray around the intake area with WD40 and see if engine RPMs are affected...
Hi it mite be a pain in the ass but i'm afraid them carb will be coming off and stripped a lot's more times before you get to the bottom of it so may as well get it done ;)
Time was spent in the garage today putting into place some of the suggestions that I have been given from here and other places and sources.
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The first thing to do was to locate my new fuel tap. The original I didn't even bother with trying to reuse after seeing what came out of the tank and the carbs. Thankfully I didn't pay Yamaha for it, managed to grab a bargain less then the cost of a refurbishment kit.
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Mounted it on the bike to take over duties from the bolt that is plugging the vacuum hose by connecting it how it should be when fully assembled. I am however still running premix from the remote tank.
Next I took the carbs, the intake rubbers, and the reed blocks off. Then put them back on this time with a small smear of instant gasket on the mating faces. And I really do mean a smear, not a bead of gasket. Simply wiped some on with my finger, just enough to plug any little gaps but not overspill.
Torqued that little lot up and went to work on the carbs while that dried. Both carbs were again stripped down and blasted with air. Paid some extra attention to where the choke plungers sit but didn't see anything untoward.
But on reassembling the carbs I was also advised to check the float heights again. The right was fine but the left was out. Odd. I checked the float heights each time I rebuilt the carbs and each time they were both within the tolerances so can't explain why this time I found the float out. Bit of trial and error to get the height set and then put them all back together.
So with everything reassembled I gave it two kicks without the ignition on with a throttle blip to hopefully get the fuel circulated and ready. Then with the ignition and choke on the bike fired up first kick.
And now a video...
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Still need to fine tune the idle once its warmed properly but it looks a lot more promising. There is lot remaining to do such as sort the leaking water pump gasket, and the clutch gasket as I cant tell for sure if its leaking. Ensure the oil pump is setup correctly so I can take it off of premix. Repaint the right exhaust (for the 3rd time). And do a load of other things.
Some extra good news is that I also have second gear, and I rode it back up onto the workbench!
Great news. Keep it up ;) the summer is coming >:D
Out of interest, what height did you set your floats to? I set mine to 17mm but was interested what others set them at.
Think I will also try and get a new fuel tap and remove and replace the intake rubbers and gaskets. Getting similar symptoms to what you had and I know that my carbs are spotless.
Quote from: m3-paul on March 16, 2014, 03:55:06 PM
Out of interest, what height did you set your floats to? I set mine to 17mm but was interested what others set them at.
Think I will also try and get a new fuel tap and remove and replace the intake rubbers and gaskets. Getting similar symptoms to what you had and I know that my carbs are spotless.
From memory it's 15 to 17mm on a 2MA however on a 1KT it's a whole different kettle of fish as the floats are round and not rectangular as on 2MA.Though frustrating trial and error(carbs on/off all time)21mm was about right height for them..
The manual states that it is 15-17mm is the float height as measured from the top of the float nearest the pivot. I have mine set to around 17mm a tad on the generous side. But it looks like its worked. Not sure if its the best setting, some road testing might be in order soon...
So problem solving has been in order. Changed the water pump gasket. I drained the system, disconnected the hose, and then removed the cover. New gasket, reattach everything and fill the system. The following day I find the pump cover leaking worse then before.
Stage 2 of the fix was to drain the coolant and remove the clutch cover. Well I think that the cover was leaking so I need to play with that as well.
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Drained the oil and coolant while the bike was on the paddock stand. Then popped it on the side stand to hopefully stop any extra oil dripping off. Wasn't perfect put it think it helped somewhat.
Replaced the clutch cover gasket. Used the same one as before, but noticed that there is something not quite right, and it was the same on the old one. But when I put the original on it appeared to go on fine. This time I thought I'd just trim the bolt holes. And while the gasket drops a little below the cover its not obvious and it seals fine. I wasn't sure that it was leaking it was more of a weep but now I can't find anything to worry about.
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I reused the water pump cover gasket, but this time as with the reed block gaskets I used a little instant gasket. Let it dry overnight and then filled the system. So far I have found no leaks.
Also been painting the exhaust again so that is just drying now. I have also ordered some bolts for the fairings and plan to book an MOT next week...
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on March 20, 2014, 01:40:30 AM
The manual states that it is 15-17mm is the float height as measured from the top of the float nearest the pivot. I have mine set to around 17mm a tad on the generous side. But it looks like its worked. Not sure if its the best setting, some road testing might be in order soon...
Thanks for that. Mine is set at 17mm. My problem is I think an air leak on the inlet rubbers. Sprayed carb cleaner around the carb rubbers when trying to start the bike from cold and it fired immediately. New rubbers going on today as the old ones have age related cracks it would seem and pulling in too much air to allow starting from cold.
Regarding your clutch cover weeping, had the same when I used a brand new yamaha gasket and torqued up perfectly to workshop manual spec. I found I had to nip it up a little more than the manual stated to get a perfect seal ?:-|
Back to the garage and setting the bike up and doing the finishing touches. Checked the stroke of the oil pump which was nicely in tollarance. Also bleed the pump again as I had to disconnect the feed for the clutch cover replacement. So I could now put the pump cover on.
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I tidied up the front wiring and stuck the headlight back on. I have a feeling I might need to play with the wiring again when I put the indicators on, but that shouldn't be to bad to do.
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Then I adjusted the chain and sorted out the rear axle nut. Due to the powdercoating the lock nut for the axle nut didn't go all the way over the axle leaving a couple of unused treads on the lock not. This didn't feel me with confidence. So I went down to a large bike dealer with the axle nut and decided to find a self locking nut that would fit. Got a couple of odd looks while doing this but I found a suitable nut.
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While a KTM Duke 200 has the correct design I kept it in the Yamaha family by using a YZFR125 (or as I call it the new TZR125) axle nut. Part number 95607-14200 I believe is what I was supplied if you want, torqued up to 105nm.
The exhaust has also been repainted. The leak doesn't appear to be there any more. Just need to do a few things, the main one being the bodywork.
Plastics, bodywork, fairings. My attention was taken by this at the beginning as the bike was missing the front fairings. So I managed to source a set of fairings from a chap on the old TZR forum, forgive me I cant give full credit as it was so long ago, but I was very lucky to get them. They were used and needed some attention the lowers for example had the hinges stuck.
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So I drilled them out.
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Just need to sort out some form of replacement.
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The lowers had a little damage on them.
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But the upper was good.
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But overall they needed a respray. So I had them done at the same time as the tank. But I needed some fairing stickers and no one did the 2MA set that the bike should have. So Corf from the old TZR site made some copies from the fairings that I had, and they are available on eBay.
However I ran in to some trouble when putting them on they bubbled, and so did the replacements. Could not explain why, they guys putting them on had done it plenty of times before and the stickers supplied were the same as others had used. Just a strange thing. No criticism of the stickers, but I'm not using them for a little colour issue. If you are doing the full bike they are fine but the red that Yamaha used has a little orange in it and if you have a pair of new rear panels they wont match. So I had to source a set of new Yamaha stickers also, but I think it will be worth it in the end.
The new rear panels didn't come with the foam inserts that the 2MA has in place of the indicators. Luckily the original panels still had them in.
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So I swapped them over. They are actually 1KT panels so had some extra foam that I needed to remove to fit the foam I wanted, but with a little hot glue they went in.
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I also put the foam dampers on the inside of the front fairing that the headlight goes against.
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Next is to get the plastic on the bike. Oh and sort the petrol tank out.
So the petrol tank, after being acid dipped, brazed, and painted had developed a little surface rust over time from when it was painted until now.
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Its not to bad, but it means the tank needs to be lined. I decided to use Kreem that I ordered from Yambits. Its a 3 stage process. The first stage removes the rust, the second removes the removal, the third lines it.
But first I need to plug that little hole in the bottom of the tank. For this I am using the original filter. It was already damaged from the stale petrol so I ripped the feeds out and filled it with instant gasket. Then with a little more gasket sealed the filter to the tank.
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I taped up the filler cap surround and then covered the rest of the tank with plastic in case I spilt any. Hopefully I will not damage any of the paint work or pass out from the fumes while I do this.
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Then off to the bathroom and its extractor fan to begin stage 1. The tank hopefully protected is in the bath and the chemical added with some water. It will stay there overnight before stage 2.
But I noticed something odd with the kit. To get it to work all of the surface needs to meet with the chemical. So I brimmed the tank with water. But the instructions say to dilute with 2.5 gallons of water, which is 11 litres of water and the tank holds 16 litres. From experience most tanks (with the exception of a Firestorm) hold roughly the same amount so wouldn't it just be easier to have a more suitable amount of chemical? Anyway I hope it hasn't been diluted to much, only time will tell...
You are cracking on mate!! Those lower hinges are a pain to get as the same happened to me.
I got around this by ordering hinges off another Yamaha but I forget which bike it was as it took me ages to find the info out. They are handed the other way, by that I mean that they don't get fitted in like for like positions, it will become clear when you get them.
What is good is that the securing holes that you pop rivet through are in identical places.
The first part you need is 88F-2194X-00
You need two of these and I think these are the female part of the hinge system.
You will also need two of the male hinges, part number 88R-2195X-00
Got them within a couple of days from my yamaha dealer.
Hay Squirrel what became of your extra black wire the one by your indicator wires?
Cheers for the part numbers, an order has been placed. Though I already have a little plan...
As for the additional wire, not done anything with it as yet. I might just tie it off and leave it. Trouble is at the moment I have another indicator problem. It would appear that the 2MA and 1KT indicators use different connectors.
NO!! Not Kreem!! Don't use that stuff :-\
If the fuel in your area is the ethanol crap, the alcohol will eat up that Kreem stuff and you'll have constant fuel tap/carb issues. I have a tank where it's dissenting. If you have to coat it, use the Caswell tank sealer kit. http://www.caswellplating.com/restoration-aids/epoxy-gas-tank-sealer.html
It's a two part epoxy that holds up to the ethanol fuels. You may be able to just chemically clean the rust out and get away with not coating it.
Hope it's not too late... ?:-|
The Kreem is in the tank.
I've read various reports of most tank liners failing and working fine. This is why I didn't want to line the tank in the first place as there was no liner when it left the factory. But the process is to far to stop now. I have some thoughts on the process that I will share once its all finished, but I really don't fancy doing this again.
Update on the tank, and the situation has not pleased me. I think the tank had a leak somewhere but I cant be sure where as the water level had dropped a little overnight. But not dramatically, so I hope the sealant can fix it.
Anyway after about 14 hours of sitting I emptied the tank and the majority of the rust was gone.
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Washed it out a few times and then added the stage 2 chemical. This one was nasty and stripped the paint in a couple of places. Thankfully it was on the filler and underside so will be hidden once complete. I think it was due to the tape keeping the chemical on the paint more than anything. Also the fumes from this are the worse.
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I also encountered a slight problem, it tells you to drain this from the tank, and drain the previous chemical mix. The only slight problem here is that this is not actually possible. You see due to the design of this and other modern tanks for various reasons, the fuel feed is not at the lowest point in the tank so there will always be some petrol or in this case chemical that will not come out. Additionally the filler cap is lipped so again impossible to fully drain the tank from there.
Anyway stage 3 is the sealant. So I poured it all in and swilled it round. On the basis that stage 1 wasn't actually enough to match the size of the tank I poured it all in. In hindsight I should have just poured in half, and used the other half as a second coat. But with more than I need in the tank and no way of removing the excess I just had to rotate the tank more over a couple of days until it dried.
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Once dry it looks like its coated the inside well. But there is some pooling of the sealant so not the most even coating. Just hope its enough to do the job.
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I have decided to paint the underside and the filler with Hammerite to seal it off from rust. Using red and white spray paint. Trouble is and I have had this before the paint is taking an age to dry. I have no idea why it is doing this, had it before and I thought it was just the heat but still its an issue. Will wait for it to dry and give it some more coats.
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And it looks like the rear seam might have been the leaking issue. Just hope this kit works. Once the paint is dry I might plug the bottom and water fill it to see if it is holding, or just put the filer in and add petrol...
Apart from waiting for things to dry I have been waiting for Yamaha to send me some parts. I'm still waiting. I also have a few bolts I need to get so I can get the plastics on. I just seams that the last little bits are taking the longest as I had planned to have an MOT by now.
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Anyway the bar grip has been installed using brake cleaner to lubricate it to slip on. The break cleaner dried out and the grip is on securely. You might also notice that the front mudguard is also on.
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I plan to use 1KT front indicators they are flush mount to the fairing and in my opinion look better. The problem here is that they use a different set of connectors compared to 2MA indicators. So with some crimping bullet connectors from Maplins and some spare connectors that Ed sent me with the loom I built my own adapters, and I have to say I'm quite pleased with them.
Back to the front fairing and time to add a screen.
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And the side pods.
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One of the side pods was new, the other and the screen were very good condition second hand items from eBay. I wanted to use an OEM screen over a replacement for no particular reason.
To mount them I got some of the rubber mounted screen nuts. But they are to big to go through the bolt holes so will try and find some smaller ones. In the mean time, I have them acting just as nuts as this is what Yamaha did originally from what I can tell. I do have another idea for the side pod bolts but they are on back order for now.
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But the first trial placement of the front fairing did not go well. I cant get it to line up with the fairing bracket. I think the screen might be making it to ridged at the moment so will have another go after I have dismantled it first.
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But in some good news the rear fairings are on along with the seat. The seat is not the original but a good second hand item. Cleaned up and with a replacement lock it is on the bike ready.
The trouble is for every good thing... It would appear I have another oil leak. This time traced to the neural switch bolt. It looks like the seal between the bolt and the engine has failed. From memory it was a copper washer with only about 10mn. I don't fancy trying to tighten it much more in case the crack comes back. So I was thinking to replace the washer and add a little instant gasket and thread seal, unless anyone can suggest otherwise?
Tonight's first job was to fit a new chain guard, and that was not as simple as I thought. First problem was the front bolt hole needed to be lengthened as for some reason it just wasn't wide enough. Then the front mounting bolt had no access so off came the left footpeg hanger so I could get a tool on it.
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Next I tackled the leaking neutral switch. Dropped the gearbox oil and took the switch out. Looking at the recess and the switch I cant see any reason while the seal failed other then more thread seal at the end then I expected. So I've decided to simply replace the copper washer and tighten it a little bit more (15nm this time) without the thread seal. The engine has been refilled so its now just a case of watching for drips.
The final thing that happened tonight was the front fairing. Its on.
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Had to trim two of the front rubber screen nuts that are holding the side pods on as they were interfering with the headlight rim. Then it was a case of loosening the screen bolts, mounting the fairing and then tightening everything back up.
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Oh yes and they are 1KT mirrors. I think they look far better than the black stalked 2MA mirrors. Still available from Yamaha don't ya know.
Now all that is left is to wait for the paint on the tank to dry as it needed another coat. Get it on the bike, hope its fuel tight and get the lower fairings on. Need a couple more bolts but and I know I'm tempting fate here, the MOT is booked for this Saturday.
I've also found a buyer for the bike. But first a history lesson...
According to the V5 there have been 3 former keepers before me.
The number plate on the bike was from Fowlers of Swindon. Fowlers of Swindon was at one point Artdeans. It was bought out at some time and the name was changed but Fowlers sold off all of their shops after expanding massively condensing to their main Bristol store where they are to this day. So Fowlers of Swindon became Bikes UK before they went bust and Artdeans of Swindon was an independent again.
In the early 90's Artdeans employed a young 17 year old for workshop duties, Andy. After passing his test Andy bought his first big bike, it was a TZR250 2MA that was in the shop window. It was a 1 owner bike and at the time a new RD was only £80 more, but his heart was set on the 2MA. He rode it round and loved every minute of it. But after a while decided to move it on. The chap he sold it to blew it up a few weeks later, it was repaired but he never saw the bike again and always regretted selling it.
Fast forward 20 years and Andy is now in the process of taking over ArtDeans fully after being a partner for many years. One of his customers is in ordering parts for a TZR250, me. So we have a chat about the bike and I happen to say what I found out from the rebuild with the piston ring going and that the bike was running a Fowlers of Swindon plate.
You see these bikes are not entirely common and no one in Artdeans could remember more than the one young Andy bought. Trouble is no records remain from back then and Andy couldn't remember the registration number. We had suspected for some time but could not prove it until he finally found an old photo of him sat on his TZR that showed its plate.
I have Andy's old bike and we have pieced together its history from its first owner, to Andy, to Paul and then to me. So Andy has asked if I ever decided to sell it he would like first refusal as it brought back so many memories for him. I've agreed to that, and he is looking forward to seeing it run again.
But fear not, its not for sale.
Non of us knew how iconic these smelly 2 strokes would be back then. A lot of people have been fooling themselves on 4 strokes for a long time. Then the memories of excitement come flooding in some 20 years later.
I was worried right up to the last sentence there.
As for the MOT that's in doubt at the moment. The oil leak from the neutral switch is back. So again I dropped the oil, changed the copper washer, and this time have gone for a smear of gasket sealant on the washer faces. The engine is empty at the moment letting the sealant go off without contamination. Will have to see what happens next.
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But in other reports I have put the new hinges on the fairings. Got these from eBay on a punt, the numbers are superseded but should be still available from Yamaha. The spikes are different lengths but the numbers now come out to the same part. I attached them to the lowers with a combination of bolts, spring washers, and nyloc nuts.
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First attempt at mounting them didn't work out the best. I needed to loosen off some of the front fairing and the fairing brackets. Things don't exactly line up. But I expected that a bit. I've also managed to misplace the right side bracket but have a spare left bracket that doesn't look to out of place until it turns up.
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The plan there is to get everything on properly and then tighten it all up. Also need to work out how to get the V piece on. But for now its staying off as I don't have the mounts for it. Also found that the left fairing is extremely close to the exhaust. I think that has more to do with the missing internal fairing lug. But I'm going to put the unused bracket on the engine cradle and hopefully that will keep it spaced off.
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But the fairings look good on there and I quite like the Dzus fasteners. Had to take it all off again for the neutral switch and to replace a couple of powervalve cover bolts for stainless items so will try again later once the leak is hopefully fixed.
Well mate, what can anyone say? Your attention to detail is simply amazing! Like Paul I initially thought you'd sell the bike and I couldn't even think of price to put on such a trying project. Once again congratulations, thanks for sharing the whole process, it is very nicely presented. As for the leak, I'm sure the smear of gasket sealant will do the job.
Cheers, Fanis
I like the story :) Was going to say how can you sell after such a proper rebuild! Bummer for Andy but at least he knows it's being appreciated and not broken for spares or worse ;)
Great story about the bike. I would love to know the history of mine.
Regarding the v piece. Just screw the top part into the top/nose fairing with two allen bolts. Hopefully your fairing has the rubber grommets with the thread inserts in them?
Then you can just bolt and screw the side panels on to it. There should be three of these rubber threaded grommets on the v piece on the right hand side (as seen when sitting on the bike).
Unfortunately I'm going to have to cancel the MOT.
The oil leak is still there.
So I need some help and advice. The oil leak is at the neutral switch. Its coming from behind the switch most likely from the damage where the original broke and removing it made the situation worse. But I cannot see anything wrong with it when the switch, essentially a metal bolt is removed. I've tried the switch 3 times each time with a new copper washer, each time torqued up a little bit more, and the final time with some instant gasket on the faces of the washer.
So what is next to try?
can you take a picture of it? Where is the oil coming from? Maybe its the switch?
Its not an easy thing to photograph, but this is the area when the engine was out if the frame:
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And this is the bolt before it went in:
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Some more pictures:
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As you look at the switch you should be able to see a little glistening of oil on the right. There is not much there at the moment but it is there for sure. And that is only with the oil being in for an hour or two.
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Not sure if its any help, but that is the bolt from the side/ underneath. The extra gasket is the bit that was on my finger that I didn't notice yesterday and cleaning it up didn't really work.
I don't think its the switch itself but could be wrong. I suppose the only way to know for sure is to replace it with a new one or use another bolt. But I don't think I have one of the right length and pitch to go in there.
But my latest though is unless someone thinks this is a bad idea, would using instant gasket on the threads and the sealing faces of the copper washer torqued up be worth a shot?
Do you think it could be the weld repair opening up when you tighten up the switch?
It would be nice to get to the bottom of it for your own piece of mind before you bodge it up for want of a better word ???
Try a bit of plumbers ptfe tape on the threads?
Dan
also you might want to replace this switch with a normal bolt just to make sure the oil is not coming from within the switch..
Thanks all for the advise. I opted for an original fibre washer and a tube of gasket sealant. Left it for the night to dry out and then filled the engine with oil and regularly monitored it. Over the course of a couple of days there was no oil seen from the switch and nothing on the tissue to confirm.
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Its not pretty and it now officially qualifies as a bodge. But just so long as it holds at this point I'd be happy.
The fairing are now back on. I greased up the hinges and added some spacers to the brackets to get things to line up, its an old bike with some history so I expected some manipulation would be required. I'm not going to run with the V piece at the moment as I don't have the correct mounting bolts, but this isn't to important to me and can be looked at a little later.
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My attention is now on the tank. The paint is dry now, I wouldn't recommend spray Hammerite any more so brushed it on. The white is not a colour match but then I expected that, and its no problem as its just to seal and protect the base.
The fuel filter came off of one of the replacement tanks as the original was far beyond saving. I added a new gasket and lines from Yambits. Some original foam dampers from Yamaha, and some copper washers to seal the screws and hold the filter on.
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Replaced the fuel cap so its a one key bike now. But the rubber seal had some paint on it from the original owner. But luckily that comes apart so I took it off and replaced it with the rubber seal from the original tank.
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Even put the rubber tank guard and over flow pipe back on.
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Then hooked it up to the fuel tap and connected that fully.
Put some petrol in the tank and waited for my feet to get wet. They didn't so I lit a match closed the fuel cap and decided it would be rude not to fire it up.
It took a couple of extra kicks as I haven't started it for a couple of weeks and it needed time to get flowing from the tank but it started and was running off the tanks petrol.
At this point I can also report that I have at least 3 forward gears. It needs to clear its throat a bit as there are a couple of stutters but I did find the power band for a split second. First impressions is that its twitchy, but I put this down to my nerves, the new tyres, and the wet road. I think its going to be fun though.
The MOT is booked. Will monitor the tank, no smell of fuel yet, for the next couple of days. There are a couple of little things I want to take another look at but it would appear the big jobs are over. Lets see what happens next...
good luck with MOT
my bike just got dropped off this morning for MOT and i have import crap to sort
Today didn't quite go as planned. The intention was to MOT the bike and then complete the Bikesafe Trackday at Castle Combe on it.
It started off ok. Got to the MOT station, the bike wasn't feeling the best, however it got there. And I worked out why the other night test ride was so twitchy, tyres require air in them to work properly.
Well the test went well. No failures and no advisories I have a certificate to prove this!
The ride back from the test felt better. Though I have a little clunk in the clutch that I need to investigate, only appears setting off when not really under load. Strange, so ideas welcome?
With a tax disc I headed home to do some of my own checks. I adjusted the front brake lever and topped up the gearbox oil then headed off to Castle Combe.
Not far from home and a total of 17 miles completed the exhaust note changed and I lost the rev counter and lights. Pull in and twiddle the fuses. The lights came back, so that is just an issue with the fuses and the box, again. I have an idea for this.
Restart the bike and I don't like that engine note at all. Look over the bike thinking the exhausts are loose, they're not. Try and locate the noise as it sound like something vibrating loose. Then I spot the right hand power valve cover resting between the fairing and exhaust. Cover the covers hole and the noise drops.
I think that the bolt hole thread holding the cover has failed. I wasn't convinced by it when it went back on. So what I think happened is the bolt failed and the cover worked loose.
So the next thing to do is to replace the fuses and fix the covers bolt thread. I have been thinking of the old tap and die, but would a Helicoil be best here and is that something I can attempt at home with the engine still in the frame?
Thought I'd take a look at the bike today. Replaced the problem fuse and that gave me the full electrics back. Need to get some shorter spares then what I currently have for a better fit but they are in there now.
Next was to check out the thread on the powervalve cover. Popped the fairing off and tried a bolt, which took to the thread fine. But with the cover in it wasn't gripping quite right. So I tried a longer bolt which was miles to long. But then I realised what the problem was firstly I needed the longer bolt or as its more commonly known, the correct size bolt. The next thing was to run a tap down the hole to clear out what ever it was that was stopping it getting all the way in. And with that the cover was on a held tightly.
A quick start of the engine confirmed that the noise and electric issue was solved. Now you might have noticed there have been no bike finished pictures. The reason for that was I was going to take them at Castle Combe circuit and hopefully include one of the bike on track. But it was not to be. So I took the bike down the road to check it was all working and to get a couple of pictures...
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I should also add I'm no David Bailey.
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But these should give you all some idea of how the bike looks.
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Even tried a couple of arty shots.
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Some may have worked better than others.
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I also only went out for 5 minutes. Or so I thought. I've now covered a total of 52 miles. And I ran out of fuel. But stuck it on reserve and it kicked back into life once the air was clear from the pipe.
So things to do now include adjust the chain. Loosen the wiring at the front as I think its slightly restricting on full lock. Scrub the tyres in fully. Get some more miles on it.
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As for what its like to ride, very different and I need to get more practice in. There is no engine braking, but get in the powerband and it shifts. Oh does it go. The front brake is uncomfortable at the moment as I think the span is wrong, more adjustment needed there. However I spent the entire 35 miles of tonight's ride with a little grin on my face.
Looks excellent, well worth all the hard work.
Good project topped off with an excellent looking TZR!!
Very nice looking TZR250.
Well done.
Nice to see it being enjoyed after all the hard work :) there's always a couple of jobs to fix just when you think it's all finished, and then there are the small adjustments to get it to feel nice. Lets hope for a nice summer so you get to properly enjoy it!
Fantastic that you got there and the final result is brilliant. I adore my 2MA, I will never sell it. Just brings the biggest smile to my face as the rev counter needle swings to 10000rpm 8)
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 13, 2014, 09:03:22 PM
Thought I'd take a look at the bike today. Replaced the problem fuse and that gave me the full electrics back. Need to get some shorter spares then what I currently have for a better fit but they are in there now.
As for what its like to ride, very different and I need to get more practice in. There is no engine braking, but get in the powerband and it shifts. Oh does it go. The front brake is uncomfortable at the moment as I think the span is wrong, more adjustment needed there. However I spent the entire 35 miles of tonight's ride with a little grin on my face.
Great job squirrel, Where did you source the new airfilter from?
Quote from: yamahar1z3xc on April 16, 2014, 08:55:05 PM
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 13, 2014, 09:03:22 PM
Thought I'd take a look at the bike today. Replaced the problem fuse and that gave me the full electrics back. Need to get some shorter spares then what I currently have for a better fit but they are in there now.
As for what its like to ride, very different and I need to get more practice in. There is no engine braking, but get in the powerband and it shifts. Oh does it go. The front brake is uncomfortable at the moment as I think the span is wrong, more adjustment needed there. However I spent the entire 35 miles of tonight's ride with a little grin on my face.
Great job squirrel, Where did you source the new airfilter from?
I got the foam from Yambits. But I think its still available from Yamaha if needed.
So I went out today with my friend with the RC8 that set this whole thing in motion. Did about 120 miles on the TZR and I'm really getting into it now. Being able to use the engine properly is a really good feeling, get it into the power band and keeping it there and boy does that sound good. I'm still a little light on using its handling to the full but its quick turning and stable, lots of confidence in its abilities being far better than mine. Just need more time on it.
There are a few tiny details I need to sort and I'm still learning its quirks and how it behaves. For example I found that the oil sender in the tank doesn't quite seal, and that it gets very hot stuck in traffic as there is no air flow over the engine. But none of this detracts from what the bike is. I've even shown the previous owner some pictures of how it sits now; he couldn't believe that its the same bike and he's happy that its been rebuilt and is now getting used.
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So I was thinking of just reviewing the past year and a half of the build but its all in here. There have been highs and there have been lows and at times I was ready to give up but I think from the fun I had on the bike today its all been worth it.
I posted all this up here as over the years I've read plenty of build threads and enjoyed them, and reading what others have achieved helped inspire me to attempt this. So without sounding to corny I just hope that others out there reading this decide that some bike sat wasting in the corner of a garage is worth the effort saving.
The final thing to say is a big thank you. A thank you to all those who have helped me have hopefully been credited along the way and a thank you to all those who have offered advise when I had problems. And a thank you to all those who have left the comments here encouraging me on, cheers all.
Oh and a final, final thing; I'm thinking about what project bike to take on next...
QuoteOh and a final, final thing; I'm thinking about what project bike to take on next...
that's important :)
Amazing job mate! As for the next project I'd say get yourself a TDR250. Same engine, 3 times the fun! Some hard to find parts (bodywork) is the only downside. That and the silly prices they are sold for in the UK.
Cheers, Fanis
Well I have had a second opinion on it, Andy from Artdeans. As it was previously his he was very interested to see it so brought it down to him. He quite liked it so let him take the keys for a few minutes. At one point we did wonder if he was coming back, and when he did finally reappear he did admit to considering staying out for longer, and described its affect on him as a rush of blood to a sensitive region. I wouldn't go quite that far personally, but its a cracking riding experience.
Sounds like it's come full circle.
Cracking bike, love mine to bits.
Great job!
Umm... So... Yes... this is the bike that adorns the front cover of Practical Sportsbikes this month.
It all started some months ago on here when I received a private message from Chris Newbigging the Features Editor. The bike was still very much a work in progress but he asked to keep in touch and that they would be interested in doing a feature once the bike was completed. We exchanged emails once I had it on the road and he would let me know once they had a slot in the magazine. A couple of months passed by and I was contacted by Jim Moore The Editor. And so a couple of weeks ago on a sunny Sunday Jim and Ian Jubb the Photographer turned up at my place.
The day started with me chatting about the bike and Jim whipping out a note pad. We moved into the garage arranging the bike for a few shots while more notes were scribbled. Once Ian had the pictures he needed, including the action spanner twiddling shot we got kitted up for the test ride.
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I had identified a couple of corners in advance as asked to get the road shots from and we headed out to them. Jim was in front as we got onto an open bit of road behind some cars and he went for the overtake. I'd never heard my bike from anywhere other than the riders seat and it just made me grin. Then I snapped back out of it and went after Jim. He knows how to ride a bike.
At the corners we wait for Ian to catch up in the car. Jim does lap after lap of the corner as Ian takes photos from different angles and directions. Was interesting stood there watching, Jim honing it round the bend on my bike when the next rider round on their own bike barely manages to wobble through.
Once the action shots are complete we break for a little pub lunch and then head back out to do the static shots. We eventually found a suitable spot looking out over Swindon and Ian set to work. And With that it was back to mine for some final details and the day was complete.
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I've got to say both Jim and Ian are genuine guys, had a good laugh with them and spent most of our time swapping biking stories. It really looks like the dream job and I had a great time taking part, if you ever get the opportunity to take part in something like this I say go for it.
I'm really happy with how the article has turned out and am going to frame a copy and hang it in the garage. But for now its time to consider the next project...
Thats awesome! That's a cool closing chapter for the restore, fame! PS magazine is cool, I get it all the time on the ipad 8)
Well done Steve nice to see all the hard work and money you put into project being recognised not just from us but outside the TZR forum too.
Amazing rebuilt!
Lots of money invested aswell as lot of patience into it ;D
The result was impressive, it´s just like a new TZR250 2MA (if they were still made)
If i were you, since you got the barrel outside the bike for maintenance i would have tuned them up >:D Stock ones are too soft..... They have a lot to do and a lot more power to deliver >:D
Good job mate!
Yes, great job. I enjoyed the read too.
Quote from: Doromus on September 26, 2014, 04:54:22 PM
If i were you, since you got the barrel outside the bike for maintenance i would have tuned them up >:D Stock ones are too soft..... They have a lot to do and a lot more power to deliver >:D
I have been racing using these engines using stock porting for years.
It is good enough for the track and all you will ever need for the road.
Just ask Jools about where his midrange went using F3 spec porting.
If you wish to increase the output then first get the squish right.
Ignition, carby and airbox restriction hold the engine back and not the porting.
You could be right there Mark ;D
As soon as Grant has checked the ignition over, I'll be trying some std cylinders again just to see - maybe just cleaned up a bit. Now if only I could find a 2XT's top end...................
Didn't realise you made the cover! 8)
Awesome build thread. Thanks for sharing.
How are you finding the Kreem tank liner? I need to line my tanks but have hear mixed reports.. Would you use it again? Any advice greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Byron
Noooo...don't use Kreem! :o
I've got it coming apart in the tank of Kawi H1. For my TZR, I used the Caswell tank sealer kit. http://www.caswellplating.com/restoration-aids/epoxy-gas-tank-sealer.html
It's a two part epoxy sealer that will withstand the modern ethanol fuels. One of the few products that are safe to use in fiberglass, plastic and/or steel tanks, etc. I've heard of others having success with POR 15, but have also heard of issues with it. I've never heard of anyone having issues with the Caswell product.
Just my two cents...
So far I have no problems with the Kreem tank liner. If I find any I will post up. But with these things only time will tell and I have no experience of any other liner. Based on that I wouldn't have a problem using it again, but in the interest of interest I might use something else just for interest.
The only thing I would say, and I think this will go for any liner you choose, get it all lined before you get the tank painted. Makes things a lot easier and a lot less tense.
Cheers guys. Will do some more research over Christmas and let you know how I get on.
and...follow the directions to the letter. Preparation of the tank is key to the liner adhering properly.
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on December 23, 2014, 03:36:38 AM
So far I have no problems with the Kreem tank liner. If I find any I will post up. But with these things only time will tell and I have no experience of any other liner. Based on that I wouldn't have a problem using it again, but in the interest of interest I might use something else just for interest.
The only thing I would say, and I think this will go for any liner you choose, get it all lined before you get the tank painted. Makes things a lot easier and a lot less tense.
I had not seen this story before ,you have done a wonderful job,Marks comments are bang on for motor development.
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 12, 2014, 10:35:44 PM
Today didn't quite go as planned. The intention was to MOT the bike and then complete the Bikesafe Trackday at Castle Combe on it.
It started off ok. Got to the MOT station, the bike wasn't feeling the best, however it got there. And I worked out why the other night test ride was so twitchy, tyres require air in them to work properly.
Well the test went well. No failures and no advisories I have a certificate to prove this!
The ride back from the test felt better. Though I have a little clunk in the clutch that I need to investigate, only appears setting off when not really under load. Strange, so ideas welcome?
With a tax disc I headed home to do some of my own checks. I adjusted the front brake lever and topped up the gearbox oil then headed off to Castle Combe.
Not far from home and a total of 17 miles completed the exhaust note changed and I lost the rev counter and lights. Pull in and twiddle the fuses. The lights came back, so that is just an issue with the fuses and the box, again. I have an idea for this.
Restart the bike and I don't like that engine note at all. Look over the bike thinking the exhausts are loose, they're not. Try and locate the noise as it sound like something vibrating loose. Then I spot the right hand power valve cover resting between the fairing and exhaust. Cover the covers hole and the noise drops.
I think that the bolt hole thread holding the cover has failed. I wasn't convinced by it when it went back on. So what I think happened is the bolt failed and the cover worked loose.
So the next thing to do is to replace the fuses and fix the covers bolt thread. I have been thinking of the old tap and die, but would a Helicoil be best here and is that something I can attempt at home with the engine still in the frame?
Did you ever get to the bottom of the clumk from the clutch?
My rebuild is doing the same.
Regards
Andy
Quote from: she169y on July 19, 2015, 10:03:32 AM
Quote from: squirrel_hunter on April 12, 2014, 10:35:44 PM
Today didn't quite go as planned. The intention was to MOT the bike and then complete the Bikesafe Trackday at Castle Combe on it.
It started off ok. Got to the MOT station, the bike wasn't feeling the best, however it got there. And I worked out why the other night test ride was so twitchy, tyres require air in them to work properly.
Well the test went well. No failures and no advisories I have a certificate to prove this!
The ride back from the test felt better. Though I have a little clunk in the clutch that I need to investigate, only appears setting off when not really under load. Strange, so ideas welcome?
With a tax disc I headed home to do some of my own checks. I adjusted the front brake lever and topped up the gearbox oil then headed off to Castle Combe.
Not far from home and a total of 17 miles completed the exhaust note changed and I lost the rev counter and lights. Pull in and twiddle the fuses. The lights came back, so that is just an issue with the fuses and the box, again. I have an idea for this.
Restart the bike and I don't like that engine note at all. Look over the bike thinking the exhausts are loose, they're not. Try and locate the noise as it sound like something vibrating loose. Then I spot the right hand power valve cover resting between the fairing and exhaust. Cover the covers hole and the noise drops.
I think that the bolt hole thread holding the cover has failed. I wasn't convinced by it when it went back on. So what I think happened is the bolt failed and the cover worked loose.
So the next thing to do is to replace the fuses and fix the covers bolt thread. I have been thinking of the old tap and die, but would a Helicoil be best here and is that something I can attempt at home with the engine still in the frame?
Did you ever get to the bottom of the clumk from the clutch?
My rebuild is doing the same.
Regards
Andy
The short answer, no.
When Andy (the bikes second owner) rode it he commented that it was still there. From memory he said he did so some investigation but didn't find anything amiss. When I rebuilt the engine I didn't find any excessive wear on any of the components as if I did they would have been replaced. So I've just accepted it as one of those things. The only time I get it is if I've just got a little load on the engine moving the bike around. If I'm just pulling away properly I'm above that rev range so don't get anything but it could be that I just don't feel it at that level. Either way I'm no longer bothered by it.
Cheers, think I will do the same :)
Excellent write up/report mate. I know this was some time ago but it's well worth a post to thanks. It's been a really good read and I can't wait to start back on my 2ma YPM bike.
What's happen to the images?
photobucket racketeering the internet again. There are browser extensions that used to fix their previous blackmail attempt, not sure if it works for the blurry images..
There seem to be some great images here - I am struggling to see them though as I guess the photobucket went wrong - Is there any chance of seeing the hoses to the carbs again clearly ? It is a 2ma I am building from scratch - a large box of bits and lots of time on ebay later - I finally got a spark replacing stator and flywheel from2ma instead of 1KT!!!
Anyway now to get her fuelled up and started - I have two large bore hoses coming off the petcock- I assume these go to large bore outlets on tank??
I have a narrow bore hose coming from the petcock ,which I assume goes to the upright stub at the front of the left carb as we look at it from above?? ( this is marked 2 on the left carb as we look down. Note there is not one on the right carb)
There is then a mid sized bore hose from the petcock, which I believe goes to the t-piece and splits in to two slightly larger bore hoses to the inlet stubs on the right of each carb as we look at them? (these are marked 1 on left carb as we look at it)
That leaves me with two more stubs on each carb. Are these just bridged across from one carb to the other? I only have the hoses I have described to go from as the others were missing. I have added a photo to try to help to show my issue. Anyone got a photo showing what goes where? Many thanks for any help.
It looks like you might have some TDR carbs. TDR carbs have coolant circuits in them to help prevent carb icing, and these are what your extra spigots are for.
There should be two large bore hoses from the tank to the fuel tap, then two hoses going to the carbs, these are-
'1' is the fuel inlet which will be on both carbs. There should be a 'T' piece in the fuel line from the tap which then goes to each of these
'2' is where the vacuum pipe for the fuel tap goes on, note smaller size than the fuel pipe. (the fuel tap is automatic when running, the vaccum from the intake opens it....apart from 'prime' which is open regardless of if it's running so you can prime the carbs with fuel prior to starting)
'3' and '4' look like where the coolant hoses fit for TDR use..which can be left open when not in use... unless you have a TDR head with the extra coolant take offs (would need a pic to tell), though these can simply be blocked off with 6mm bolts anyway.
TDR carbs run slightly different jetting, with a smaller main jet (I think) but larger needle jet. It should still run ok, but I'm not sure if it's been looked at or what size jets you have in there etc..
Hope that helps!
Ahhh Martin, now it makes sense! This is what came with it so will blank off the spare stubs and connect as i thought. I will check head first. I will post how I get on :)
Quote from: Sams Dad on February 02, 2020, 05:11:29 PM
...so will blank off the spare stubs and connect as i thought.
There should be no need to blank off the heating circuit hose stubs on the carbs. The heating circuit only runs through a small part of each carb body and doesn't (or shouldn't!) interconnect with any fuel or air circuit. Therefore, the hose stubs can just be left 'open'...or can be pulled out or cut off if you don't intend to make use of them (I infer most people don't use them - I certainly don't). The less clutter, the better...and they weren't originally fitted to the 1KT-based TZR carbs.
I would be glad to hear from anyone who does use the carb heating circuits and considers them useful. I can't imagine they would be necessary, unless perhaps the engine is used in a snowmobile! Even then, considering that the carbs don't receive any heat until the engine has been running for a few minutes, it is hard to imagine that the heating circuits would be of much use. Still, I'm open to learning something new 8) .
Regards,
James
I've had carb icing on my TDR a few times, usually crisp cold winter air days. It chokes up the pilot air jet and makes rich as buggery! that was using RGV carbs... no heating circuits. Mind you, most TDR's/TZR's don't get ridden below 15'c these days, so yeah, most people wouldn't notice.
Quote from: Martin77 on February 03, 2020, 08:55:19 PM
I've had carb icing on my TDR a few times...
Thanks for the advice Martin. Maybe this problem appears on some models and not others...?
Bikes fitted with a carb heating circuit include the SDR (1987), the TDR (1988) and the R1-Z (1990). I'm not sure about the TZR 3MA (even
after looking at the parts catalogue...so many hoses! ::) ). Could it be that carb heating was judged unnecessary on bikes with full fairings? That doesn't explain why the TZR 3XV had heating circuits though... :-\
Regards,
James
The 3MA had them too... but yeah, I would still blank em off myself, just to remove some of the clutter!