TZR Forum

Hi all,

I'm Andy from West Sussex in the UK. I'll start with a bit of info about me and by bike history. I'm probably one of the younger 3XV owners at 29, meaning this bike was born a year after me. This is a novelty as my current bike is 4 years older. An 86 Rd350 F2.

I've owned that since I was 21 and could do the full UK license, selling my imaculate DT125RE 2005 to fund it.

As you can see my love affair with YPVS bikes started early and shows no sign of ending. I also have a DT200WR in a bit of state but thats another story.

Being born in 1990 I wasn't really aware of these bikes and so it wasn't really until a friend ended up buying a basket case TZR125RR series 3 4DL and asked for help, that I started sumbling across the 3XV. We got a bit confused with the series 3 4dl and the 4FL, hence finding out about the 3XV.

This was back in 2009 ish and it was love at first sight.  The 350 ypvs came up very cheap the day after passing my test and so I bought that. Then life got in the way and I had to save for a mortgage and then had to actually pay the mortgage every month, who'd have guessed!

Skip forward a few years and around circumstance changes and I always saw the 3XV prices rising beyond my reach. Then a jigsaw puzzle appeared on ebay that would wipe my savings but brought the owenership possibility withing my grasp and also within a reasnoable driving distance. I bit the bullet and made an offer. It was accepted and I bought a "complete bike" in pieces with a new set of marlboro fairings and a a spare set of stock pipes. The damage? £2250...

I know it will need a lot of work but I figured if I could buy and refurb things bit by bit then eventually I'll have my dream bike and not having had to hand over 6 grand in one go!

It since sat in pieces in my garage and other things have always taken priority. A couple of weeks ago I decided to change tactics. I'm going to build it back into a bike. Take stock of what I have, what I'm missing, what needs refurbing, what needs replacing and go from there. As the proverb goes, A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I needed to take that first step and here we are.


So, where am i at now?

I've started to put the bike back together and admittidly I've not taken as many photos during this stage as I should have. I got fairly excited about seeing it as a bike so rushed it a little. I do not know much about the bikes at all and so the learning curve will be steep and if you are able to offer help, please accept my apologies for my inital ignorance and what may appear to be obvious questions.

Here is what I know/think I know!

It's a 1991 3XV1 based on frame numbers, 00 cylinders and head
It has a 3xv-01 CDI (Could anyone shed any light if this is correct for the bike)?
It has a NOVA reference.
The frame and engine numbers do not match (Is this normal? It seems 3XV is the original stamp then the rest has been stamped later.)
The engine has been sat out of the bike for a around 3 years but has been turned over by hand every now and then.
The tank has sat with a very rich mixture of 2T and petrol that has been swished around, also every now and then.

The engine appears to have suffered damage around the gear change shaft and been repaired at some point. I actually only noticed this when putting the engine back in the bike.

The swing arm end cap and body has suffered some chain damaged. I'm not sure how I can repair this at the moment.

Heres a bunch of photos. Please do comment, good or bad!

I've had a 3xv1 for two and a half years. Outstanding bike. Wish I'd bought one in this condition, because even though mine was a working unit, I've since rebuilt or replaced almost every moving part. Mine is intended for track only use, but the story would be almost the same for a street-bike (the track bike is just abused constantly when used rather than a few trips up a country road).

I highly recommend you read through the 3xv projects here on the forum. Paul's and Mellorp's would be good starters. If you want to see what happened with my bike, that project thread might be good for a virgin to these exotics.

I wish you luck, but know your in for a serious investment in time and money. There are good (less expensive) workarounds for OE parts, but some crucial pieces must be purchased at retail prices. Some will be NLA. Ask the guys here for help on those "missing" parts. There are also good tips on where to buy parts in those project threads I mentioned.

Please do your research before spending money. Your time is free and the wisdom here will be a blessing.

Let us know how it goes with your "build".

My best from the USA. Welcome to the Forum.

Steve

So last night I spent a good few hours reading through Steve's Project Phoenix thread. It was incredible and gave me so much info and inspiration. Amongst other things it made me remember that my swing arm pivot bush had similar marks on so a full rebuild of that is going to have to happen by the looks of it.

I think I've put an order in with TSO for a loads of parts but have yet to pay or be told how much the shipping is. I selected paypal and it said it would send an invoice but I've not seen anything come through yet. Any ideas anyone?

I've also got the needle bearings and thrust bearings in the basket on simply bearings.

I can't find the keys so I'm going need to get a new ignition switch and filler cap. I have found an old Yamaha key that opens the filler cap but I'm sure it wasnt from the TZR as the ignition ket would have been with it. I think this was from a DT125R that i owned at some point.

It appears the bike was missing a few bits that I've noticed so far and I'm sure there will be others:

-Rear plastic luggage? box that goes inside the rear seat fairing (ordered one from a 4FL on ebay)

-Oil tank rubber cover (ordered one from a 4FL on ebay).

-Indicators.

-Rear brake hose clamp ( the little hook type one, must be easy to make)

-speedo cable

-tacho cable

Quote from: Steveog on May 24, 2020, 08:45:28 PM
I've had a 3xv1 for two and a half years. Outstanding bike. Wish I'd bought one in this condition, because even though mine was a working unit, I've since rebuilt or replaced almost every moving part. Mine is intended for track only use, but the story would be almost the same for a street-bike (the track bike is just abused constantly when used rather than a few trips up a country road).

I highly recommend you read through the 3xv projects here on the forum. Paul's and Mellorp's would be good starters. If you want to see what happened with my bike, that project thread might be good for a virgin to these exotics.

I wish you luck, but know your in for a serious investment in time and money. There are good (less expensive) workarounds for OE parts, but some crucial pieces must be purchased at retail prices. Some will be NLA. Ask the guys here for help on those "missing" parts. There are also good tips on where to buy parts in those project threads I mentioned.

Please do your research before spending money. Your time is free and the wisdom here will be a blessing.

Let us know how it goes with your "build".

My best from the USA. Welcome to the Forum.

Steve

Hi Steve,

thanks for your reply. As you've probably now seen, I read your thread last night. My fiance was amazed that I was reading something as I don't really do much reading of books. I literally sat there glued to the screen reading all 35 pages! When you're post came up to expplain your lock up my heart sank and then I was amazed at how calmly you picked up and carried on. Kudos!

I'm would like to say I'm well aware of the time and money that will go into this but I'm not sure I am yet! Haha! I'll be keeping a note of all costs so it will be interested to see what it sits at.

I'm not looking for a concourse bike, escpcially initally. I would just be happy to have a rideable bike. From there I may keep going but it depends where I'm at in the journey of life and jobs.

My initally intention was get the frame, swing arm etc powder coated and work my way up but if I did that it will never happen.

I should say I had initially put a post up on a Facebook group for TZR's and was pointed in this direction by a couple of top blokes who I now have on WhatsApp. Both have sent me some really useful photos and offered some great help and advice. I thank them both and am sure they're on here somewhere and will recogonise the pics but wont post their names without their permission.

(-P) to you both!

I do have a few questions at the moment and I'm sure plenty more to come. Hope some of you more experience guys can help. I will be reading through as many threads as I can so I'm sure I will find some of the answers but appreciate any pointers nonetheless.

1. Do the upper engine mounts push into the frame from the outisde or inside and should they have flat spots?

2. What the options for suspension? I'm guessing mine will need rebuilds at minimum, what would be your advice?

3. Are the standard brakes calipers good enough and are rebuild kits available?

4. Do you think I will be able to repair my swing arm. I will get some more photos this week, it has deep score marks from the chain around the end cap area.

5. Opinions on the engine damage/repair job?

1. Don't know (never replaced any as they seem to last forever. Think I answered a question like that on FB?) I have a frame accessible at the moment though so if you want any pics to show what they should look like, just ask.

2. For the road the stock stuff is fine. Strip and rebuild the forks with fresh oil, maybe. If the shock is OK for damping, maybe just use it for the time being and think about something posh if you find you need it later?

3. Brake calipers are enough to throw you over the handlebars with two fingers if they are in good nick. good Caliper seal kits on ebay from Powerhouse. Make sure you get all the corrosion out of the seal grooves.

4. Chemical metal for the swinger if it has grooves cut? New oe end caps are still available. Check out Steve's Project Phoenix thread for all the bearing numbers - all generic.

5. The case repair looks a bit rough, but all that's in that bit of case is the shift shaft, so as long as it seals at the end and is strong enough, it'll probs be fine.

Cheers! Good to have a 'young 'un' on board!  (-P)

Welcome :)  Nice project (-P)

Quote from: AndyYam

It has a 3xv-01 CDI (Could anyone shed any light if this is correct for the bike)?

(-P) to you both!

Maybe double check your CDI, don't think there is a -01, you probably have a -00 which is stock. The -10 is the SP box.

Re the chain chewing up the end cap, just replace the end cap. I've had spares bike that had chewed through the cap and through the swingarm right into the bearing. I donated that swingarm to a friend and as far as I know he had it welded up so yeah, not too bad.

Here is the engine mount on my bike, not sure if that clears it up (inside, outside)?

Quote from: Warwick on May 24, 2020, 10:20:57 PM
1. Don't know (never replaced any as they seem to last forever. Think I answered a question like that on FB?) I have a frame accessible at the moment though so if you want any pics to show what they should look like, just ask.

2. For the road the stock stuff is fine. Strip and rebuild the forks with fresh oil, maybe. If the shock is OK for damping, maybe just use it for the time being and think about something posh if you find you need it later?

3. Brake calipers are enough to throw you over the handlebars with two fingers if they are in good nick. good Caliper seal kits on ebay from Powerhouse. Make sure you get all the corrosion out of the seal grooves.

4. Chemical metal for the swinger if it has grooves cut? New oe end caps are still available. Check out Steve's Project Phoenix thread for all the bearing numbers - all generic.

5. The case repair looks a bit rough, but all that's in that bit of case is the shift shaft, so as long as it seals at the end and is strong enough, it'll probs be fine.

Cheers! Good to have a 'young 'un' on board!  (-P)

Hi Warwick,

Yes that would have been me on Fb too. I would have said yes please however YBK's pics semt o have cleared it up. They push through from the inside of the frame.

The shock makes an unusual whooshing noise on the rebound. I'm assuming its not supposed to do that. I'm going out in the garage for the afternoon so will get a little vid. Is getting it rebuilt a viable option or is it more advisable to buy a replacement?

Good news on the swinger and engine. I'm not looking for anyone to say yeah you'll never need to worry about that, just reassurance that its not a "chuck it and buy another" situation!

Cheers and it's good to be here!

Quote from: ybk on May 25, 2020, 01:57:40 AM
Welcome :)  Nice project (-P)

Quote from: AndyYam

It has a 3xv-01 CDI (Could anyone shed any light if this is correct for the bike)?

(-P) to you both!

Maybe double check your CDI, don't think there is a -01, you probably have a -00 which is stock. The -10 is the SP box.

Re the chain chewing up the end cap, just replace the end cap. I've had spares bike that had chewed through the cap and through the swingarm right into the bearing. I donated that swingarm to a friend and as far as I know he had it welded up so yeah, not too bad.

Here is the engine mount on my bike, not sure if that clears it up (inside, outside)?

Perfect! Mine are in the wrong way round haha which explains the gap on the inside of the frame between the engine mounts.

I don't think its gone through into the bearing yet. Fingers crossed im safe! Will report back!

My mistake, the CDI is 3XV-10 so that's an SP CDI. Are they still compatible with my model?

Hi, Andy. You're starting to get advice from some of the gurus who helped me. Very good for you. If you saw my thread then my suspension mods are about as inexpensive as possible, but with obvious results. I'm now running 15wt fork oil, but haven't ridden it yet. 

The "wedge" for the rear spring really does stiffen things up without jacking up pre-load. If its making noise at the rear, again referring to my project: Take a look at the swing-arm pivot. You'll see that its a point of failure if not kept under control. The noise could be coming from the suspension movement. Its full of bearings and seals. If not, spray a bit of soapy water on the shock and look for air leaks. There are only a few places that air could escape or be sucked in.

As Warwick has hinted, a new shock is ideal...but the good ones are expensive. I'm still on the original. The stock shock can be re-built, but I'd avoid spending money for limited results. A modern shock is far superior to a brand new stock shock (unless you could a new SP unit). Even then, any top modern brand would out-perform Yamaha's gear from 28 years ago.

Concerning lock-ups. As you probably read, the stock "R" crank lower end bearing cannot be inspected, was probably parked outside in Japan and then sat in a warehouse just corroding a bit more with each passing year. September 11, 2018 was its last revolution. There are two solutions. 1) Have the stock crank rebuilt or 2) Get an SP Crank. I highly recommend the latter. I had a heat seizure in August of 2019 and the SP crank is still solid and worked beautifully that September. Important tip: If you hear any strange noises or the engine just does not "feel" right...pull the clutch. Coast to a stop. Call a buddy to come pick you up. Don't try to do anything to the bike until you get back to your shop.

Hang in there. Most of us know that the rewards of resurrecting one of these gems is almost as good as riding it.

Steve

Good luck with your project Andy - I will watch your progress with interest.

I'm not a 3XV owner, so there will be others who can advise better than I. However, from reading a lot of submissions on the forum, it seems that SP-model CDI units (and exhausts too, I think) are more restrictive than early R-model items. I infer this was intended to negate the performance-improving effects of SP-model carb and porting differences, for compliance with the JDM 45ps limit (reduced to 40ps from around mid 1993 onwards).
Here is a link to a thread where the various 3XV (and some other) ignition characteristics are plotted for comparison: http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.msg49744#msg49744 (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.msg49744#msg49744). You'll see that the 3XV-10 characteristic retards a lot quicker and further than the 3XV-00 characteristic from about 9500rpm onwards...yet has a fair bit more advance up to about 5500rpm.

JDM TZRs were not supplied with engine serial numbers until fairly late - I think the SPR was the first 3XV variant to have an engine serial number stamped (maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm). Earlier models simply had the basic model code prefix "3XV" marked on the engine casing, with space for the serial number left blank. Some countries require engine numbers, so it is likely that yours was stamped after importing. My own 1KT/2AW/2XT 'bitsa' had an engine number stamped in the blank space by the importer when the bike arrived in Australia - he just used the frame number as the engine number. The same applies for my SDR. It is thus a little surprising that your engine number is different to your frame number - could someone have exchanged engines at some point? You mention that the engine was out of the bike - maybe it was never 'in'...!

Let us know what you find out.

Regards,
James

Quote from: Steveog on May 25, 2020, 06:06:37 PM
Hi, Andy. You're starting to get advice from some of the gurus who helped me. Very good for you. If you saw my thread then my suspension mods are about as inexpensive as possible, but with obvious results. I'm now running 15wt fork oil, but haven't ridden it yet. 

The "wedge" for the rear spring really does stiffen things up without jacking up pre-load. If its making noise at the rear, again referring to my project: Take a look at the swing-arm pivot. You'll see that its a point of failure if not kept under control. The noise could be coming from the suspension movement. Its full of bearings and seals. If not, spray a bit of soapy water on the shock and look for air leaks. There are only a few places that air could escape or be sucked in.

As Warwick has hinted, a new shock is ideal...but the good ones are expensive. I'm still on the original. The stock shock can be re-built, but I'd avoid spending money for limited results. A modern shock is far superior to a brand new stock shock (unless you could a new SP unit). Even then, any top modern brand would out-perform Yamaha's gear from 28 years ago.

Concerning lock-ups. As you probably read, the stock "R" crank lower end bearing cannot be inspected, was probably parked outside in Japan and then sat in a warehouse just corroding a bit more with each passing year. September 11, 2018 was its last revolution. There are two solutions. 1) Have the stock crank rebuilt or 2) Get an SP Crank. I highly recommend the latter. I had a heat seizure in August of 2019 and the SP crank is still solid and worked beautifully that September. Important tip: If you hear any strange noises or the engine just does not "feel" right...pull the clutch. Coast to a stop. Call a buddy to come pick you up. Don't try to do anything to the bike until you get back to your shop.

Hang in there. Most of us know that the rewards of resurrecting one of these gems is almost as good as riding it.

Steve

Cheers Steve,

Yeah it's really great to have people with such a wealth of knowledge and the willingness to help!

I'll start with a fork rebuild and I'll start looking into rear shock options. The wedge you use I've not quite got my head around. It doest fall out?

The noise is 100% air passing something so i guess its rebuild or replace and seems like replace is the best bang for buck option.

With regards to the engine, my current plan is to get it running and see how it sounds, feels etc. I would only strip and rebuild if there was an issue. Is this a bad idea? I don't ride my bikes really hard and have never had any 2 strokes lock up or break as yet.

Quote from: James P on May 27, 2020, 11:35:33 AM
Good luck with your project Andy - I will watch your progress with interest.

I'm not a 3XV owner, so there will be others who can advise better than I. However, from reading a lot of submissions on the forum, it seems that SP-model CDI units (and exhausts too, I think) are more restrictive than early R-model items. I infer this was intended to negate the performance-improving effects of SP-model carb and porting differences, for compliance with the JDM 45ps limit (reduced to 40ps from around mid 1993 onwards).
Here is a link to a thread where the various 3XV (and some other) ignition characteristics are plotted for comparison: http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.msg49744#msg49744 (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.msg49744#msg49744). You'll see that the 3XV-10 characteristic retards a lot quicker and further than the 3XV-00 characteristic from about 9500rpm onwards...yet has a fair bit more advance up to about 5500rpm.

JDM TZRs were not supplied with engine serial numbers until fairly late - I think the SPR was the first 3XV variant to have an engine serial number stamped (maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm). Earlier models simply had the basic model code prefix "3XV" marked on the engine casing, with space for the serial number left blank. Some countries require engine numbers, so it is likely that yours was stamped after importing. My own 1KT/2AW/2XT 'bitsa' had an engine number stamped in the blank space by the importer when the bike arrived in Australia - he just used the frame number as the engine number. The same applies for my SDR. It is thus a little surprising that your engine number is different to your frame number - could someone have exchanged engines at some point? You mention that the engine was out of the bike - maybe it was never 'in'...!

Let us know what you find out.

Regards,
James

Hi James,

Thanks for following. It's great to know that people are interested!

Thanks for the info on the CDI thats a great thread. There is so much on this forum that I really do need to keep reading as Steve and the other guys suggest. As long as my CDI works with the bike thats good enough for me. I'm not going to be racing and I'd imagine it will be a while off that I need more power. (-P)

That makes a lot of sense about the numbers. I have a DT200WR project and the engine numbers are just the 3xp prefix. I've no idea where that bike came from though!

It's quite possible that the engine was replaced at some point. I have the paperwork from SA and the frame and engine numbers match on that. It shows 1997 as a date of somekind but specifies its not the date of manafactuar ofcourse. But yeah the engine was definitely the one inside the bike when it came to the UK.

Hi Andy,
Great that you are already getting lots of input and guidance from a number of very experienced guys on this forum  (-P)

I have recently spent time refurbing my 3XV, also a 1991 R same as yours, and with much support from this forum.
http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=5513.0

Not sure if you have anyone closer to your location, I am near Heathrow, but if you need to try another CDI unit I have a spare 00 box that I could post (used but untested at present) which I acquired in a bundle. If needed, you could borrow it to try should your 10 version give you problems.

Good Luck with the build  :)

Quote from: thump566 on May 28, 2020, 09:39:20 AM
Hi Andy,
Great that you are already getting lots of input and guidance from a number of very experienced guys on this forum  (-P)

I have recently spent time refurbing my 3XV, also a 1991 R same as yours, and with much support from this forum.
http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=5513.0

Not sure if you have anyone closer to your location, I am near Heathrow, but if you need to try another CDI unit I have a spare 00 box that I could post (used but untested at present) which I acquired in a bundle. If needed, you could borrow it to try should your 10 version give you problems.

Good Luck with the build  :)

Hi Thump,

Good to know your nearby! When I'm on the road would be great to meet up at boxhill if thats somewhere you go?

Thanks very much for the offer. Fingers crossed I wont need to eh but who knows!

I've made a fair bit of progress in terms of getting everything on the bike and working out what I'm missing.

I realied I was missing the luggage compartment in the back and tracked down one from a 4FL in Poland. It was still attached to the tail section frame so will post that up in the for sale section when I can. I did spent 15 minutes or so trying to work out how to fit the rear cover from the outside  ::) but worked out it  pushes back from the inside eventually!  :-[

I had an order placed with TSO but the invoice took so long to arrive that I've since ordered a bunch of stuff through fowlers online. I'll need to cross reference with the TSO order and re place that, although the delivery seemed to be $80. I'm assuming that include import taxes etc but have queried with them and awaiting a repsonse.

I'm stuck at the moment for the a nunber of bits so I've put a post in the wanted section and just saw a few really useful replies.

One item was the riders seat location peg/bolt/thing but it seems that there are alternatives out there and Thump has found one on ebay that for some reason i cant view! weird.

I've noticed that my gearchange side lower fairing has snapped at the rear and that I am missing the lower fairing joining brackets and the rear brackets. If anyone has photos of theirs from when they painted them it would be great to see. I guess I'll have to make some somehow until one becomes available. I'm keeping an eye on yahoo auctions japan.

I've managed to get a NOS swing arm inner bush for £40 on ebay which seems like a good price compared to the 70 new.

I've ordered the oil tank cover, again from a 4FL which will be arrive from Germany at some point.

I ordered a Motobatt battery which arrived today :)

I also found I was missing the coolant expansion which is odd. Either that or I've mis placed it in the garage. It's less than a tidy workshop! Anyhow, I've found one and awaiting its arrival.

I noticed that my disks seem to say "closed circuit use only" so guessing this means I can't use on the road. I noticed this whilst taking a photo of the speedo drive as it seems to move around. I'm unsure what is supposed to stop it from moveing or if I have just fitted it in the wrong position. Any advice?

My lower Radiator bracket seems to have been bodge with an extra bit of bracket added in. Can anyone shed any light on what im missing or how it should be fitted?

Does anyone have any photos of the metal clips next to the oil tank when they are "in use". I'm not sure what they are for and I'm missing 2 I think?

I found I was missing the choke lever and cables. After lots of looking they all appear to be NLA. I then remembered I had one left over from a 4DL and bingo, they are the same! So I now have the lever with a cable from a 4DL. Still not sure how I'm going to get the cable. Custom made job I suppose unless anyone has any better ideas?

The tailight lens has seen better days too. If one comes up I'll buy but if not its repairable.

I'm not sure how to put the photos in the text so will add them all below.

Photos failed to upload. Will have to try again later, got to go shopping! erghh

No, Most can only fail if it says "Not for road use". I had a well lairy front tyre in my KMX200 and each year the guy would see "off road use only" and mutter he couldn't fail it.

Not sure if you have discovered the manuals on the forum, if you can upload some diagrams showing which brackets you are referring to it would help identifying them  (-P)

http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/3XV/index.php

Regarding the rear fairing bracket - are you referring to the number 3 in the attached image? If so, Bulldogboy had some copies made (originals are now NLA), they are not identical but more than adequate as they are not load bearing as such, only stopping the bodywork to flap. I have a spare if its the one you are missing which I can send?

Can just make out an original bracket example in second image just below the bear linkage if that's which you are referring to?

RE :-
Does anyone have any photos of the metal clips next to the oil tank when they are "in use". I'm not sure what they are for and I'm missing 2 I think?

Hopefully this image helps?

Are you still after a rear light lens? Post me some pics in a PM as the one on my bike is a spare for the China bodywork I have on. The whole original rear end is in the loft with all the other goodies I have for if I ever restore it. We might be able to do a swap with some cash my way.

Quote from: yanw on May 28, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
No, Most can only fail if it says "Not for road use". I had a well lairy front tyre in my KMX200 and each year the guy would see "off road use only" and mutter he couldn't fail it.

Haha love the description "well lairy". Well thats good to know.

Quote from: thump566 on May 28, 2020, 09:14:24 PM
Not sure if you have discovered the manuals on the forum, if you can upload some diagrams showing which brackets you are referring to it would help identifying them  (-P)

http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/3XV/index.php

Regarding the rear fairing bracket - are you referring to the number 3 in the attached image? If so, Bulldogboy had some copies made (originals are now NLA), they are not identical but more than adequate as they are not load bearing as such, only stopping the bodywork to flap. I have a spare if its the one you are missing which I can send?

Can just make out an original bracket example in second image just below the bear linkage if that's which you are referring to?

I have indeed. My photo uploads would have helped but the bloody things wouldnt work.

Yes 3, 24 and 26 appear to be missing. I still have a suspision that a box or parts must be somewhere and I havt found it. The bike in pieces moved around my rented garage a number of times as i tried to cram more stuff in. I feel like I've checked everywhere but I've done that before and been wrong.

If you do have one that would be great, just let me know how much i owe you. Ironically, I don't have that section of fairing to bolt to as thats the bit thats snapped off, but my marlboro fairings will presumably have th same mounting point, give or take a foot  ;)

Quote from: thump566 on May 28, 2020, 09:23:59 PM
RE :-
Does anyone have any photos of the metal clips next to the oil tank when they are "in use". I'm not sure what they are for and I'm missing 2 I think?

Hopefully this image helps?

Perfect. I feel a bit silly not realising they were for mounting connetors to given the shape. Pretty smart that they dont just hang loose. I'll probably just mock something up to hold them all together until they come up 2nd hand somewhere. Thanks again for the photo.

Quote from: AndyYam on May 28, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
I noticed that my disks seem to say "closed circuit use only" so guessing this means I can't use on the road.

Sounds like they're TZ discs. I could use a set if you decide to swap them.  :)

Quote from: Tony B on June 02, 2020, 08:43:51 PM

Quote from: AndyYam on May 28, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
I noticed that my disks seem to say "closed circuit use only" so guessing this means I can't use on the road.

Sounds like they're TZ discs. I could use a set if you decide to swap them.  :)

Theres photos above now. If they're more use to you and I can get hold of TZR discs then thats cool with me.

Quote from: AndyYam on June 02, 2020, 09:39:42 PM

Quote from: Tony B on June 02, 2020, 08:43:51 PM

Quote from: AndyYam on May 28, 2020, 08:21:42 PM
I noticed that my disks seem to say "closed circuit use only" so guessing this means I can't use on the road.

Sounds like they're TZ discs. I could use a set if you decide to swap them.  :)

Theres photos above now. If they're more use to you and I can get hold of TZR discs then thats cool with me.

Thanks Andy.

Quote
I'll probably just mock something up to hold them all together until they come up 2nd hand somewhere. Thanks again for the photo.

I have these clips and you can own them for postage only. The package would be pretty light, but I live in the middle of the US. It's been my experience that regular mail from the UK gets to me in about five days.

PM me if interested.

Steve

Quote from: AndyYam on June 02, 2020, 08:40:54 PM

Quote from: thump566 on May 28, 2020, 09:14:24 PM
Not sure if you have discovered the manuals on the forum, if you can upload some diagrams showing which brackets you are referring to it would help identifying them  (-P)

http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/3XV/index.php

Regarding the rear fairing bracket - are you referring to the number 3 in the attached image? If so, Bulldogboy had some copies made (originals are now NLA), they are not identical but more than adequate as they are not load bearing as such, only stopping the bodywork to flap. I have a spare if its the one you are missing which I can send?

Can just make out an original bracket example in second image just below the bear linkage if that's which you are referring to?

I have indeed. My photo uploads would have helped but the bloody things wouldnt work.

Yes 3, 24 and 26 appear to be missing. I still have a suspision that a box or parts must be somewhere and I havt found it. The bike in pieces moved around my rented garage a number of times as i tried to cram more stuff in. I feel like I've checked everywhere but I've done that before and been wrong.

If you do have one that would be great, just let me know how much i owe you. Ironically, I don't have that section of fairing to bolt to as thats the bit thats snapped off, but my marlboro fairings will presumably have th same mounting point, give or take a foot  ;)

Andy, PM your address and I'll send a repro bracket number 3 in diagram. Given the bracket only prevents the fairing flapping at that point, some of the members fabricate something of their own as the original is NLA. This copy is not identical but they should certainly do the job in the absence of the Yamaha part.

Steve and Thump, pm sent to both. Very grateful!

I'm keeping an eye on yahoo auctions japan for the others but am a bit unsure how it all works. If aynone has experience it would be welcomed.

I've managed to source a rear light unit which was from the 93 4FL 125 but the lens is the same, possibly the whole unit. It doesnt have the large rubber step type thing but then neither does my current one. What was/is this for?

The foam rubber thing just provides a kind of fill for the void above the tail light in the tail fairing. You'll be fine without it.

Go to yahoo auctions, there will be tab at the top entitled "Buyee" you need to sign  up and link a PayPal account and fill out your details, Buyee, then acts as an intermediary, it translates the pages you view on yahoo auctions.When you bid and win an item the seller then sends the item to the Buyee warehouse, they then wrap it for international postage and foward it to you for a fee.They will not send things like tanks, carbs, some engine parts. There are other intermediary companys, Rinkya is another and will send stuff Buyee won't, as they use Fedex, and they alow you to mark down the value of your item at checkout which reduces postage costs and import duties.Things which seem cheap can suddenly get not so cheap after sale fee, packing, shipping and import duties.Be warned sourcing spares can become addictive! :o

Quote from: Warwick on June 09, 2020, 10:57:23 PM
The foam rubber thing just provides a kind of fill for the void above the tail light in the tail fairing. You'll be fine without it.

ah thanks Warwick. I'm sure I can get something to fill if needed then. phew.

Quote from: bulldogboy on June 10, 2020, 12:15:00 AM
Go to yahoo auctions, there will be tab at the top entitled "Buyee" you need to sign  up and link a PayPal account and fill out your details, Buyee, then acts as an intermediary, it translates the pages you view on yahoo auctions.When you bid and win an item the seller then sends the item to the Buyee warehouse, they then wrap it for international postage and foward it to you for a fee.They will not send things like tanks, carbs, some engine parts. There are other intermediary companys, Rinkya is another and will send stuff Buyee won't, as they use Fedex, and they alow you to mark down the value of your item at checkout which reduces postage costs and import duties.Things which seem cheap can suddenly get not so cheap after sale fee, packing, shipping and import duties.Be warned sourcing spares can become addictive! :o

Thanks Bulldog! I'll give it a shot then. I've ordered parts from the states before and got hit for £8 plus 20% of the value on arrival so I'm guessing it'll be the same sort of figures I should account for when working out the final price. I'm so used to ebay UK where you can get an item in a few days for under a tenner. Paying 100-150 quid for a set of bolts and brackets hurts!

I just got through one the brackets that you had made up Bulldog. Thump had a spare and kindly sent me one FOC. A huge thank you to both of you. Kudos for getting them made up!

No worries mate, glad the bracket helped you out, just had them made up as an experiment really, getting a price for some chain slider kits , if they're cheap enough might get some printed off , if they're not too expensive.

Quote from: AndyYam on June 12, 2020, 02:26:59 PM

Quote from: bulldogboy on June 10, 2020, 12:15:00 AM
Go to yahoo auctions, there will be tab at the top entitled "Buyee" you need to sign  up and link a PayPal account and fill out your details, Buyee, then acts as an intermediary, it translates the pages you view on yahoo auctions.When you bid and win an item the seller then sends the item to the Buyee warehouse, they then wrap it for international postage and foward it to you for a fee.They will not send things like tanks, carbs, some engine parts. There are other intermediary companys, Rinkya is another and will send stuff Buyee won't, as they use Fedex, and they alow you to mark down the value of your item at checkout which reduces postage costs and import duties.Things which seem cheap can suddenly get not so cheap after sale fee, packing, shipping and import duties.Be warned sourcing spares can become addictive! :o

Thanks Bulldog! I'll give it a shot then.

Andy,

I'm not sure whether this applies to Buyee, but beware of some agents who will let you bid on, win and pay for items...only to tell you that they won't send them due to postage restrictions! You are then left with the choice of having the items sent to someone else in Japan or (more likely) disposed of by the agent...and you won't get a refund.

I have used Japamart for quite a few years - they won't let you bid on anything they won't send. Annoyingly, their list of 'prohibited items' has grown in recent years but I have had reasonably good service. They will still send things like bodywork, chassis parts (no shock absorbers!), electrical parts etc.
I also use Rinkya, which will send just about anything (including fuel tanks, shock absorbers, forks, complete engines...but no complete bikes!) - the more 'sensitive' items are sent via FedEx.

Regards,
James

There is a guy on FB that lives in Japan and will bid/post to you outside of Japan. You can confirm with him before bidding, if he will post it

https://www.facebook.com/groups/864644910638795/

Be wary of DHL costs from Japan,

I had to sell a third kidney just to get my wiring loom into Oz  :o

Could be just the agents, I think I'll change from Japamart - on a US$ 40 part they added near US$30 in fees tax, local postage and charges, and our exchange rate is shite.

Quote from: bulldogboy on June 12, 2020, 08:18:13 PM
No worries mate, glad the bracket helped you out, just had them made up as an experiment really, getting a price for some chain slider kits , if they're cheap enough might get some printed off , if they're not too expensive.

That sounds like a great idea. I started looking into whether they are the sort of thing 3d printers can do. I did read something about the type of matrial to use but I can't find the notes I made. I guess having a good one for dimensions would be a part of the problem.

James, thanks for the heads up. I've still not bitten the bullet as a few of the bits I needed the chaps on here have been able to send me. Theres a couple of joblots of bolts/brackets that have the remaining (i think) but the price is £100 and I'd only use 2-3 of the items! If by the time I'm desperate I'll go for them and can hand out the other bits in the future to those in need on here.




Cheer's Mellorp I'll take a look, might be a more comfortable way to go about it.




jools, thats good to know. Will be carefuly of that. The handling fees always wind me up. Wish there was a way to prepay the import to avoid the courier charges.

I've not really made any more progress other than sourcing parts and researching to build my knowledge base up.

My order from Fowlers arrived. I basically went through every page of the parts manual and ordered anything that was reasonably priced that I needed. I still need to cross reference with the TSO order that I cancelled as they had some items available that fowlers didnt and vice versa. Photo below :)

Thump has kindly sent me some neoprene he had lying about that I'm hoping to use to make the infill section above the rear light.

My complete rear light from a 4FL arrived and looks good to replace my cracked one.

My coolant bottle has also arrived. I'm still in need of one of the brackets to support ths. The more triangle shaped one, but again it's something I'm sure i can bend out of an alumium sheet as a temp measure.


One interesting thing I found when seaching Youtube was that the Playstation 4 games "Ride 2" and "Ride 3" feature the 1994 TZR250R amongt other 2 strokes. I downloaded it yesterday to have a go but it's going to take my a while to unlock the 3xv. I do have a TZR125R and an RG125F. It's a good bit of fun if anyone has as PS4 but the handling and braking takes a good few races to get used to. Racing a tzr125r round Brands Hatch was fantastic fun though! Can't wait to do it on my bike at the real track.

Quote from: AndyYam on June 16, 2020, 02:09:40 PM
I've not really made any more progress other than sourcing parts and researching to build my knowledge base up.

My order from Fowlers arrived. I basically went through every page of the parts manual and ordered anything that was reasonably priced that I needed. I still need to cross reference with the TSO order that I cancelled as they had some items available that fowlers didnt and vice versa. Photo below :)

Thump has kindly sent me some neoprene he had lying about that I'm hoping to use to make the infill section above the rear light.

My complete rear light from a 4FL arrived and looks good to replace my cracked one.

My coolant bottle has also arrived. I'm still in need of one of the brackets to support ths. The more triangle shaped one, but again it's something I'm sure i can bend out of an alumium sheet as a temp measure.


One interesting thing I found when seaching Youtube was that the Playstation 4 games "Ride 2" and "Ride 3" feature the 1994 TZR250R amongt other 2 strokes. I downloaded it yesterday to have a go but it's going to take my a while to unlock the 3xv. I do have a TZR125R and an RG125F. It's a good bit of fun if anyone has as PS4 but the handling and braking takes a good few races to get used to. Racing a tzr125r round Brands Hatch was fantastic fun though! Can't wait to do it on my bike at the real track.

That's a huge stack of presents! Nice one. The parts list in resources should tally with TSO by the way, worth double checking but agreed I find TSO a bit easier to navigate.

If you get stuck on the rear fairing give Yan a shout - he did a great job for my bike. http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=6725.0 (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=6725.0)

PS Don't trail the brakes on a track like Ride lets you on the PS4 ;)

Just seen the (earlier) pics. I'm not sure that your rad is actually a 3XV rad? It should have a hoop-and-grommet type fitting like the ones used for the top mounting that lines up with the 6mm bolt hole in the end of the coil bracket.  Not necessarily a problem if the rad is more or less the same size as the 3XV one, but it might impact on the hose fitment etc. too if it's from a different bike?

Hi Andy, not sure uf you know that with Webbs of Lincoln you get a 10% discount as a forum member? Andy who works in parts is a very friendly and knowledgeable guy as anyone on the forum who has dealt with him will agree.Just a thought as 10% when your buying alot of parts saves a few quid👍

Hi Andy, not sure if you're still missing any brackets but this seller on eBay breaks many bikes including 3XV's and is currently listing a number of brackets if you still needed to source any?  (-P)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Motorcycle-Parts/10063/m.html?_ssn=suzukirace&_from=R40&_nkw=yamaha+3xv&rt=nc

Hi all,

It's been a while and apologies for dissapearing to anyone who was following. I had somewhat of a mental health breakdown last Summer which resulted in the decision to change careers. That meant that all my time went into re training so all my spare time was spent studying. That's still going on so the project is still on hold but I'm hoping to take a few days next week to take stock and see what I can do to get things moving again.

Welcome back (-P) Keep us updated with progress  :)

Little update.

After attending the South Coast Meet up at Loomies I now have a fire lit under me. It was such a great site to see, hear and smell a 3XV in the flesh, let alone 5 at once. Here are some pics. If anyones not happy about being in them, let me know and ill delete ofcourse.

(https://i.ibb.co/XVTNbD1/IMG-20210828-125047.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M9LWsfr)
(https://i.ibb.co/SVMM8g2/IMG-20210828-120049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CVYYZyq)
(https://i.ibb.co/zX8C2xH/IMG-20210828-125053.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HtNRP4p)
(https://i.ibb.co/cJxWp02/IMG-20210828-125105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G7FZ1yC)

So now I've got her back in the garage and am stripping it down to paint and repair anything that needs it.

(https://i.ibb.co/sRMc81v/IMG-20210828-WA0035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jf1qnwv)
(https://i.ibb.co/rxJSQ8d/IMG-20210828-WA0043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2vBQFVZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xj2BFTW/IMG-20210828-WA0069.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GnxwCjd)
(https://i.ibb.co/tm3x3ns/IMG-20210904-WA0008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M29G9KV)
(https://i.ibb.co/QYHLtVT/IMG-20210904-WA0033.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DwMhTFv)
(https://i.ibb.co/28XCwZ0/IMG-20210904-WA0034.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8zFfJYn)
(https://i.ibb.co/Mhz0VX3/IMG-20210904-WA0037.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rtBr6W1)
(https://i.ibb.co/Mpkn6Yn/IMG-20210904-170256.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q9YB5tB)

upon doing this I found a large amount of unopened parcels from when I bought up stuff last year just prior to the mental health nose dive. I don't really remember alot about that time so I can't remember what I bought. I think a couple are the screen Rich sent me, Some neoprene from Thump for the tail unit and also the connector clips that SteveOG kindly posted from the states.

Also a bracket made up by Bulldog but sent by Thump! Great team effort!

Thanks again guys, much appreciated!


My plan going forward is to strip down the bike, collate everything into sections for either Powder Coating or 2 pack painting (Frame, wheels and swing I think unless anyone else has suggestions?)

Then work on anything I can from home and build a plan for each bit.

Tyres
I've managed to get a 2nd hand (used once) set of Supercorsa tyres from a forum member locally so they will do for now.

<a href="https://ibb.co/yShLGpG"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/VmHXrxr/IMG-20210904-WA0016.jpg" alt="IMG-20210904-WA0016" border="0"></a>


Engine
I decided I will strip the engine down. I'm still undecided if I will go for a full rebuild (By this I mean all bearings seals and gaskets.) or just a top end check over.


(https://i.ibb.co/28XCwZ0/IMG-20210904-WA0034.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8zFfJYn)


Brakes:
The Calipers will be going off to powerhouse for a full strip paint and rebuild.
I'll probably order some HEL lines in Black (Very useful to know from Thump that all HEL GoodRidge etc lines are made by one supplier)
Brembo Ceramic front pads
Kyoto Rear pads

Carbs
I have an ultrasonic cleaner so will give them a blast in there.
does anyone have any info on the bits on top (TPS right?)
I'm also on the look out for a choke cable. Or a good place that makes them up?

(https://i.ibb.co/gZcX62X/IMG-20210904-154251.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dfj6LJ6)

Forks
I will strip them down and replace the seals and oil.
Again, should I know anything else?

Rear Shock
Mine looks shagged. I believe I bought a better 2nd hand one when it came up for a reasonable price so will probably fit that for now and look at getting mine rebuilt in the future if required.

(https://i.ibb.co/vhWTpgH/IMG-20210904-182251.jpg) (https://ibb.co/42LXz97)

Swing arm
As I say this will get 2 pack painted I think.
I managed to get the pivot bolt and will replace all bearings and bushes going by the info on the site. I forget where the thread is now but I'll find it!
I Only have a damaged chain slider so will think about that. I would have though this is something that could be 3d printed no? Using a damaged one I'm sure someone with the tech no how could build a design for on. I have a contact for this so will see what I can do to get a 3d model.

Headstock bearings
I read Thumps thread and saw that OEM lower is the best option due to the rubber skirt. I managed to find one last night NOS on ebay so snapped it up and will buy a decent upper on its own.

(https://i.ibb.co/M8dYxxn/IMG-20210911-193438.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvY5LLy)

Fairings
I have a fair/rough set of originals but the LH side fairing is missing the section where it mounts via a bracket below the gear lever.
I bought another damaged panel (damage other end) and might try to plastic weld the bit on i need and brace it inside at the same time.

(https://i.ibb.co/WxvnFpr/IMG-20210828-WA0039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6n0YbJK)

Tank
Basically gonna need a strip and paint. Might leave it til last along with the body work for financial reasons!

(https://i.ibb.co/CmMg6Qp/IMG-20210904-WA0010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckC0wQK)
(https://i.ibb.co/h8KjjDC/IMG-20210904-WA0012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SvK88RJ)

Sus Linkage
Having had issues with these on other bikes I'll be inspecting for play and expecting to rebuild. Any useful info on bearing/ bush sizes would be much appreciated.

Front discs
It appears I have TZ race discs so will probably need to swap them out for stock. If anyone has any to buy / swap for these I'm interested!

(https://i.ibb.co/w0WhVbP/IMG-20210904-WA0057.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1pdfKy)
(https://i.ibb.co/0fMxGh7/IMG-20210904-WA0055.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2jtTkg9)

Wiring
I hate it! I'm hoping the loom is complete and may just need 1 or two little fixes.
I'm assuming the CDI & PV Servo are good.

Air Solenoid / no idea what they are things
These look pretty shabby. If they work then I don't mind for the time being but what should I know about them and are they serviceable?
I mean what do they do lol?

I'll upload some relevant photos from my phone when I can.

I can't be much help as fairly inexperienced but two things I can be fairly certain about...

1) the TPS - don't fiddle with it  (-P)
2) fuel tank - worth sealing internally  (-P)

Great to see you back on the project  :))

Quote from: Warwick on June 16, 2020, 05:24:07 PM
Just seen the (earlier) pics. I'm not sure that your rad is actually a 3XV rad? It should have a hoop-and-grommet type fitting like the ones used for the top mounting that lines up with the 6mm bolt hole in the end of the coil bracket.  Not necessarily a problem if the rad is more or less the same size as the 3XV one, but it might impact on the hose fitment etc. too if it's from a different bike?

Still need to look into this issue too. Maybe worth just buying a SS rad off ebay. Anyone have any experience of them?

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on September 01, 2021, 11:00:01 AM
I can't be much help as fairly inexperienced but two things I can be fairly certain about...

1) the TPS - don't fiddle with it  (-P)
2) fuel tank - worth sealing internally  (-P)

Great to see you back on the project  :))

any recommendations on sealer? I've read horror stories about it coming away and going through the carb.

On that note, fuel taps and filters i see is something I'll need to consider.

Quote from: AndyYam on September 01, 2021, 11:45:57 AM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on September 01, 2021, 11:00:01 AM
I can't be much help as fairly inexperienced but two things I can be fairly certain about...

1) the TPS - don't fiddle with it  (-P)
2) fuel tank - worth sealing internally  (-P)

Great to see you back on the project  :))

any recommendations on sealer? I've read horror stories about it coming away and going through the carb.

On that note, fuel taps and filters i see is something I'll need to consider.

Its a to-do on my bike so haven't got a recommendation yet. Shouldn't come out via the carbs anyway as there's a filter in the tank, and you can always add an inline filter after the tap and the t-piece under the tank.

Oh the air solenoids - Maccas told me that if you turn the ignition on (engine not running) and slowly rotate the throttle you'll hear 4 clicks, 2 from the front and two from the back that shows the solenoids are working mechanically. It's pretty easy to hear. They are used to bleed extra air in at points determined by the CDI to help fuelling, although many say they are an unnecessary complication and disconnect them for race bikes.

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on September 01, 2021, 12:21:01 PM

Quote from: AndyYam on September 01, 2021, 11:45:57 AM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on September 01, 2021, 11:00:01 AM
I can't be much help as fairly inexperienced but two things I can be fairly certain about...

1) the TPS - don't fiddle with it  (-P)
2) fuel tank - worth sealing internally  (-P)

Great to see you back on the project  :))

any recommendations on sealer? I've read horror stories about it coming away and going through the carb.

On that note, fuel taps and filters i see is something I'll need to consider.

Its a to-do on my bike so haven't got a recommendation yet. Shouldn't come out via the carbs anyway as there's a filter in the tank, and you can always add an inline filter after the tap and the t-piece under the tank.

Oh the air solenoids - Maccas told me that if you turn the ignition on (engine not running) and slowly rotate the throttle you'll hear 4 clicks, 2 from the front and two from the back that shows the solenoids are working mechanically. It's pretty easy to hear. They are used to bleed extra air in at points determined by the CDI to help fuelling, although many say they are an unnecessary complication and disconnect them for race bikes.

Cheers Rich great to know. Will have to await a time at which I have an ignition switch haha! Going for an after market ebay once (again unless other ideas)

Hi Andy.

Most all the bearing and seals are marked with factory number codes. Simply Bearing (and others) can match the numbers to the equivalent (often the same as OE) and save you a lot of time, hassle and money. The suspension linkage alone is full of bearings and seals. Check into the SP thrust bearings for the swing arm. They match the stock 3xv washers, but offer a roller bearing's efficiency.

Be sure to get new circlips throughout and be careful to mount them properly. The manuals can help here.

When you take the forks apart be ready to clean out the mung and drool that used to be oil. I used kerosene and a stiff plastic brush. One of my outer tubes had to be heated to allow disassembly. The slider bushings will likely be buggered or worn out.

I prefer powder coating to paint for the frame, triple clamps, engine hangers and swinger. The reason is paint can be stained by gasoline. PC can take a lot of abuse and still look new.

Probably the best advice for a full rebuild is "Get a new SP Crank". Yes. Its expensive, but not nearly as bad as the results of a stock crank failure. A stock crank rebuild might seem tempting, but it will never be as reliable as the SP crank.

Of course, there's more. Search some of the "ground up" build projects in the archives for other ideas.

Good Luck

Steve

Finally, my words of encouragement have worked.....
Set small goals, don't think of it as a massive unfinishable project, do parts at a time....see each result as a chapter and slowly you'll finish the book and most of all ENJOY it.

The meet was great, your rd was great but....you and your tzr will be better......

Quote from: jamietzr250r on September 01, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Set small goals, don't think of it as a massive unfinishable project, do parts at a time....see each result as a chapter and slowly you'll finish the book and most of all ENJOY it.

Fine words Jamie. You may have pushed me over the edge on my rebuild that I've been putting off! (-P)

Bumped into a guy with a 3XV at Cadwell a couple of weeks back. Had his tank cleaned and lined at this place..

http://www.v-duo.co.uk/motorcycle-servicing/

Appreciate its not local but it could be one to bear in mind. The inside was coated with a cream coloured lining which made it much easier to check the inside afterwards. Could always call them if it is of interest?  :-\

Quote from: Steveog on September 01, 2021, 06:59:07 PM
Hi Andy.

Most all the bearing and seals are marked with factory number codes. Simply Bearing (and others) can match the numbers to the equivalent (often the same as OE) and save you a lot of time, hassle and money. The suspension linkage alone is full of bearings and seals. Check into the SP thrust bearings for the swing arm. They match the stock 3xv washers, but offer a roller bearing's efficiency.

Be sure to get new circlips throughout and be careful to mount them properly. The manuals can help here.

When you take the forks apart be ready to clean out the mung and drool that used to be oil. I used kerosene and a stiff plastic brush. One of my outer tubes had to be heated to allow disassembly. The slider bushings will likely be buggered or worn out.

I prefer powder coating to paint for the frame, triple clamps, engine hangers and swinger. The reason is paint can be stained by gasoline. PC can take a lot of abuse and still look new.

Probably the best advice for a full rebuild is "Get a new SP Crank". Yes. Its expensive, but not nearly as bad as the results of a stock crank failure. A stock crank rebuild might seem tempting, but it will never be as reliable as the SP crank.

Of course, there's more. Search some of the "ground up" build projects in the archives for other ideas.

Good Luck

Steve

Cheers Steve will make a note and go down that route when the time comes. I love that sort of cross referencing haha!

I had a quick look at the sus linkage and didnt notice a hug amount of bearings and bushes compared to say the DT125R that i dealt with. I suppose I'll find out when i strip it down.

I will be doing the thrust bearings as per your thread (i think) I loved reading that and I think I found them all online last time around but will need to re check all that.

When you say, "never be as reliable" are you talking for racing? I'm only really going to be using it on the road and I dont ride too hard (imo).

Are they known for going and if so is that a result of poor maintenance rather than poor quality parts?

I just wish I had more time to read all the threads in full detail. I started one and before I knew it I was an hour or so in and my work duties were being neglected! whoops. more of that later...

Quote from: jamietzr250r on September 01, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Finally, my words of encouragement have worked.....
Set small goals, don't think of it as a massive unfinishable project, do parts at a time....see each result as a chapter and slowly you'll finish the book and most of all ENJOY it.

The meet was great, your rd was great but....you and your tzr will be better......

They certainly did Jamie, was great to meet you. Loved how enthusiastic and down to earth you are about the bikes.

I will indeed. Now it's stripped it's much easier to do that. I will be sending off a fair chunk of it to various places (brakes & all the painting mainly but maybe the engine too)

Whilst the pics are uploading that I'm intending to pop in the relevant places above, heres an update:

I've now fully stripped the bike including removing bearings from wheels. Not sure if that is sensible or not due to the powder coating that will happen. Anyone know how they deal with threads and bearing surfaces?

(https://i.ibb.co/WsYW6Z4/IMG-20210904-184824.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BwSVtb5)
(https://i.ibb.co/gWsJMq5/IMG-20210904-184835.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jw7Dv0c)
(https://i.ibb.co/mBMYt3F/IMG-20210904-184834.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TTFnRsq)
(https://i.ibb.co/37LLMhN/IMG-20210904-184831.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TkFFbh8)
(https://i.ibb.co/Wtdf79C/IMG-20210904-184829.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m8Y4dsp)
I'm glad i got it all into its smaller pieces because I'm now on a 3 month (2day a week) trial at my new job (web development) so will need to put all spare time into that until December ish.

I'm hoping I'll still have time to pack bits up and send them off and also buy up the bits i need (That can be done from my current job where I'm working 3 days a week).

On the note of buying, I took Thumps advice on board and looked at other smaller named brake line sellers and found WezMoto. A quick google and a terrible review appeared which was then excellently dealt with by the compnay owner (Wez i believe). At 60% the price of HEL I went for it. I did get an email back saying that he was havign trouble getting stock of the coloured lines (i chose black) due to Brexit and lack of lorry drivers/ them arriving in the country. Being a remainer that hurt a little too. F***Brexit...

Anyhoo, yesterday my lines arrived in the correct colour with the black banjo's too. Top marks to Wez from wezmoto on price, quality and communication.

The brakes are stripped and ready to be packed to go off to Powerhouse for a full strip paint and rebuild. I've been warned by the owner there that 3xv's sometimes have calipers with odd seal sizes and it's possible they wont be able to source the seals. They will check when they strip but may damage the seals on removal which will be at my risk. If that happens we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I'm going to contact a local Powdercoating/painting place http://www.vulcanse.com/ (http://www.vulcanse.com/) and get a quote. I'll see if they can offer me an NHS discount. So far no one else has but hey, you dont get if you dont ask.

Fork's I decided I'll do myself. I'm toying with the idea of progressive springs but from the sounds of it they handle well enough and probably far beyond my ability anyway.

Will stick with the current shock too for the same reasons.

I've looking into plastic repairs and found some cool videos on youtube of how to use the "staple" style repair guns which are £20 on ebay so thats gonna be a purchase and will practice with some old panels first. It looks really easy tbh.

I also opened up all the parcels I had collected (I'd forgotten what was in them so it was like Christmas. Here they are:
(https://i.ibb.co/Gd6f3pF/IMG-20210904-183220.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tHGwPK3)
(https://i.ibb.co/br5JNbB/IMG-20210904-183040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wKhspcW)
(https://i.ibb.co/MCGH1Cr/IMG-20210904-181025.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZMYrgM5)
(https://i.ibb.co/41KN312/IMG-20210904-181217.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTtYbTr)
(https://i.ibb.co/nR6cnzZ/IMG-20210904-181932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQqpn4B)
(https://i.ibb.co/vhWTpgH/IMG-20210904-182251.jpg) (https://ibb.co/42LXz97)
(https://i.ibb.co/FYhZYmb/IMG-20210904-182438.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WzH8zGW)
(https://i.ibb.co/r2c0Rc1/IMG-20210904-182620.jpg) (https://ibb.co/chC3SC7)
(https://i.ibb.co/Pxfc9fz/IMG-20210904-182556.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1ZwrdwJ)

I also had an issue with the Front wheel when I found that someone has f**ked it right up when prying out seals by the looks of it. Luckily the local forum member (ive forgotten her forum name) who sold me the tyes also had a wheel for sale so I've got that now.

(https://i.ibb.co/yd9hHv0/IMG-20210904-163243.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2W98GVq)
(https://i.ibb.co/TwVdNFW/IMG-20210904-163757.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FhSCdjH)
(https://i.ibb.co/TYCYYX8/IMG-20210904-163821.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmPmmvw)
(https://i.ibb.co/qjYBTkg/IMG-20210904-163826.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r02kD4p)
(https://i.ibb.co/nkgBBzV/IMG-20210904-163828.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YjRXXpK)
(https://i.ibb.co/3dZdP5z/IMG-20210904-163843.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pwFwk6y)
(https://i.ibb.co/0c4Lw93/IMG-20210904-163832-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VtnGKC8)

So yeah... duno what that was about but have this lovely one now!

(https://i.ibb.co/BB8Yr47/IMG-20210911-193546.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M7qJG8j)
(https://i.ibb.co/rwLGDvG/IMG-20210911-193554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VDZhJZ)

I've also found out that my Radiator is not a 3XV. I think it's possibly from a 125 belgarda. Good spot from Thump earlier in this thread whilst it was on the bike.

If anyone has pics/ info on how the rad normally attaches above and below it would be useful. I'll check the manual too ofcourse but some photos are always lovely!

Heres my wrong rad:

(https://i.ibb.co/2vBxwvM/IMG-20210904-WA0020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7nFPHnp)
(https://i.ibb.co/z4gqJRG/IMG-20210904-WA0022.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VLhdTP)
(https://i.ibb.co/yVrzYkk/IMG-20210904-WA0024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x3Nnfgg)
(https://i.ibb.co/M2mvWS0/IMG-20210904-WA0026.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjx2H9K)
(https://i.ibb.co/hyqnjhw/IMG-20210904-WA0028.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ybLQmH)

I can take you some pics tomorrow mate when im in the garage, fairings off at moment :P

A note on the headstock bearings. Following SteveOG's advice I looked up the headstock bearing and found it for 13 quid on SimplyBearings.


https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p43733/KOYO-32006JR-Narrow-Section-Steering-Head-Set-Taper-Roller-Bearing-30x55x17mm/product_info.html

Thats £22 wasted haha! Maybe ill buy one of those, stick mine back in the box and ebay it. Think it might be used on the 350LC too and those boys arent shy about spending money!

(https://i.ibb.co/M8dYxxn/IMG-20210911-193438.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvY5LLy)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bj4QfQ5/IMG-20210911-193442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6bvTyT7)
(https://i.ibb.co/nzkfVwJ/IMG-20210911-193451.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r4yMLQr)
(https://i.ibb.co/4t0tFxV/IMG-20210911-193458.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C8S8wFH)

Quote from: bulldogboy on September 11, 2021, 09:15:01 PM
I can take you some pics tomorrow mate when im in the garage, fairings off at moment :P

Ask her permission first ofcourse, fairing off photos being posted online sounds racey!

Cheers though mate!

Thanks for the props, Andy. But, in all humility, it was Warwick who suggested sourcing Simply Bearing to me. I was following his advice and it saved me many $$$ USD's, even with shipping from GB figured into the total.

In the meantime, I've discovered that a local large bearing supplier will accept walk-ins and they have many of the exact Yamaha Bearings in stock. Also, much cheaper than OE from Yamaha. Simply Bearing seems to have wider assortment of seals, however and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

Good Luck.

Steve

To be fair, it was me that spotted the wrong rad too, but I think I can handle the lack of recognition...  ;D

And, yeah, fuck Brexit! The impact on bike stuff is only one of the more minor disasters of course, but the additional expenses/delays of moving parts to and from mainland Europe has burned me quite a bit already. 

Your project is looking really good though, Good luck with it.  (-P)

Quote from: Warwick on September 12, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
To be fair, it was me that spotted the wrong rad too, but I think I can handle the lack of recognition...  ;D

Re: I've also found out that my Radiator is not a 3XV. I think it's possibly from a 125 belgarda. Good spot from Thump earlier in this thread whilst it was on the bike.

I definitely would not have spotted it Warwick, it was you. (-P) Hence my footer. :))

Quote from: Warwick on September 12, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
To be fair, it was me that spotted the wrong rad too, but I think I can handle the lack of recognition...  ;D

And, yeah, fuck Brexit! The impact on bike stuff is only one of the more minor disasters of course, but the additional expenses/delays of moving parts to and from mainland Europe has burned me quite a bit already. 

Your project is looking really good though, Good luck with it.  (-P)

My mistake Warwick, good spot!

Quote from: thump566 on September 12, 2021, 08:29:23 PM

Quote from: Warwick on September 12, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
To be fair, it was me that spotted the wrong rad too, but I think I can handle the lack of recognition...  ;D

Re: I've also found out that my Radiator is not a 3XV. I think it's possibly from a 125 belgarda. Good spot from Thump earlier in this thread whilst it was on the bike.

I definitely would not have spotted it Warwick, it was you. (-P) Hence my footer. :))

;D ::) ?:-|

Ok, little update.

I've taken my 'bits' across to be powder coated. Chose a sorta glossy black they have. I'm using Vulcan Stove Enamelling locally to me who were very helpful and knew stuff about bikes, always good!

That rose a few points I needed to address:

Master Cylinders:
- Both needed to be fully stripped for the powder coating process. I've not done this and managed to find a front brake master cylinder repair kit via the following link. All my measurements add up so looks to be a good source for anyone else looking and not wanting to pay £60 for OEM Yamaha.

https://www.motorcycleproducts.co.uk/tourmax-14mm-x-416mm-brake-master-cylinder-repair-kit/1/001785

The Oring for the brake fluid feed spigot / whatever you call it I've measured at 20mm OD 15mm ID and 2.5mm thick. It looks ok and is only feed so I'll just re use unless i notice an issue.

In my googling for rear master cylinder repair kits I also found that it uses the same as on the 4FL 125. I've put a link below for anyone who is interested. Looks to be OEM and a price that reflects that. I inspected mine and decided mine is ok. If upon rebuilding i notice anything I'll order one but at £54.99 it seems steep compared to the £21 front kit as above. Mine looks like it had been replaced as it's very clean and the master cylinder itself had been repainted badly in gold. Needless to say mine will be back to black soon. Same as the frame, I know it's not correct but meh it'll upset the purists which I find amusing.

https://yambits.co.uk/tzr125r-brake-master-cylinder-repair-kit-rear-p-45244.html

Here is my lovely rear master cylinder:

(https://i.ibb.co/mGzNP2B/IMG-20210925-122058.jpg) (https://ibb.co/808YQfB)
(https://i.ibb.co/0GN6mXm/IMG-20210925-122106.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6pPFYF)

Wheels:

right, here we go. The powder coaters don't remove tyres so they came back. Lucky they did.

Upon removing the front wheel bearing of the new wheel I bought I found the bearing to be wrong. It's the same size as the rears which is not correct.

After lots of googling and searching I've found out its from a 3MA. Not ideal but will sell back on I'm sure. If you're interested then PM me.

I went back to my wheel to see what the damage was like (scroll up for photos and info on that). When comparing that with other 3xv wheel photos I noticed I didn't have the slot for the speedo drive gubbins to go in.

hmmmmm... Ok. So I had TZ Discs and no option for speedo drive. I then did the thing I should have probably done at the start and looked at the markings on the rim. "Asahi"...
Aha! My rim is a pint of beer! No wait thats not right...it's made by Asahi who make TZ250 Aluminium rims.

(https://i.ibb.co/H41Ykz4/IMG-20210925-172555.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0TM160)
(https://i.ibb.co/80Mr6RT/IMG-20210925-172538.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Xvn2T8)
(https://i.ibb.co/SmJK09N/IMG-20210925-172549.jpg) (https://ibb.co/94Gq2Cn)

This also made me realise I don't have a speedo drive. I've made a couple of offers on ones from YZF600R's which use the same part number. I then had to order the "retainer clutch" and "clutch meter". Luckily using the part number from the manual I found them both on ebay for reasonable prices. Hardly worth faffing elsewhere at that price.

(https://i.ibb.co/CKmfXts/speedodrivebits.png) (https://ibb.co/B2c97PK)

I checked my rear (not like that) and it's marked 3XV so thats correct but leaves me without a 3xv front wheel and the powder coaters waiting. At the moment I think i'll go ahead with everything else and take the new rim (when i get one) back to be done at a later date.

The main reason to bring the wheels back was to remove the tyres. I've never dealt with rims like this before and tyre levers just aint gonna cut it. I looked at taking them to a bike shop but thats going to be £15 +VAT per change. I'll have to go back to refit the new tyres later so probably looking at £60 + vat (£72). I decided to look at diy options and found the Proworks Road Tyre Machine. Link below. It was £84.99 but with shipping cost me £105. It'll pay me back in the long run and if anyone local ever wants to borrow, please do give me a shout.

Link to product:

https://www.24mx.co.uk/motocross-parts/motocross-tyres--rims_c350/tyre-accessories_c354/proworks-road-tyre-machine_pid-PW-GTM-B?gclid=Cj0KCQjwkbuKBhDRARIsAALysV6cwu_Gyq1DjI1LzEYGqV9nvoPBSOP8JWW5YgUF2RjxxXxMYXJ4dJkaArMKEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Link to Video of it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP6cRltuPSQ


I've also ordered some brake pads after doing some more research. This may be of use to others too. I found that Brembo SA pads are a good choice but when listed as for 3XV they are about 38 quid a set. The guys at the South coast meet up did say theres often a premium for 3XV parts but I always like to find a way around that. Once I knew the code for the pads I just googled those and found 2 sets new unused from private sellers, listed for other bikes and made offers of £15 & £20, both of which were accepted. Great, 2 sets of pads for price of 1 :D

(https://i.ibb.co/X20zbVY/brake-pads3xv.png) (https://ibb.co/TvjHkrW)

The code is 07YA23SA for anyone wanting to copy and paste.

During a youtube rabbit hole session I found someone reviewing a bearing grease packer and made a purchase. Figure it'll be useful for the steerer head bearings.

(https://i.ibb.co/dMw2NFH/bearingpacker3xv.png) (https://ibb.co/54g8QmJ)

I found a joblot of indicators from an fzr250 which i think are the same if not similar as the 3xv ones so made a low offer and had it accepted. They'll be useful for parts if nothing else.

(https://i.ibb.co/dMHcj1S/IMG-20210925-122029.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SyZx5W2)
(https://i.ibb.co/4dcckGT/IMG-20210925-122025.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PQRRknh)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZhFw6Sy/IMG-20210925-122021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JzGbRqX)


I've also ordered fork oil & dust seals. I'll need to order the bushes which I assume are OEM only?

...and find a new wheel. Yahoo Auctions maybe and bit the bullet on postage.. :(

Thats all for now folks.
I think thats all for now folks.

Quote from: AndyYam on September 25, 2021, 04:22:09 PM
Sorta using this to store notes and stuff til my next post.

Good idea. I do the same, and others doing this has avoided me asking the same questions that have been asked before. We're not on the bleeding edge of understanding with these bikes, there's probably 10-20 people here that have taken these bikes down to the last bolt, and a lot of posts explain a lot  (-P)

Quote from: AndyYam on September 11, 2021, 08:05:50 PM
When you say, "never be as reliable" are you talking for racing? I'm only really going to be using it on the road and I dont ride too hard (imo).
Are they known for going and if so is that a result of poor maintenance rather than poor quality parts?

Andy,

Whatever you decide to do about a crankshaft, don't just re-use the existing one without dismantling it for inspection. Having the crankshaft separated into all its pieces shouldn't cost very much and you can then thoroughly inspect everything to decide whether it is worth rebuilding (whoever dismantles it can probably advise if you aren't sure). The best-case scenario would be that you can have it re-assembled with only new seals. However, it is more likely that other bits will need replacing too. If the big-end pins are pitted, buying a new SP-model crankshaft will probably be the most cost effective option unless you have an offer of good secondhand parts cheaply and can get all the new parts needed for the rebuild.

A standard R-model crankshaft rebuilt 'properly' should be more than adequate for road use. However, the more parts which need replacing, the less of an attractive option it becomes. If money is no object, just buy a new SP-model crankshaft. However, if you'd like to save money (if that is possible with a 3XV rebuild!) then have the standard crankshaft dismantled for inspection before deciding what to do.

Regards,
James

3ma and 3xv front wheels are the same. F49 code. Just fit the correct bearings and you should be good.

Dan

Quote from: James P on October 07, 2021, 12:26:55 PM

Quote from: AndyYam on September 11, 2021, 08:05:50 PM
When you say, "never be as reliable" are you talking for racing? I'm only really going to be using it on the road and I dont ride too hard (imo).
Are they known for going and if so is that a result of poor maintenance rather than poor quality parts?

Andy,

Whatever you decide to do about a crankshaft, don't just re-use the existing one without dismantling it for inspection. Having the crankshaft separated into all its pieces shouldn't cost very much and you can then thoroughly inspect everything to decide whether it is worth rebuilding (whoever dismantles it can probably advise if you aren't sure). The best-case scenario would be that you can have it re-assembled with only new seals. However, it is more likely that other bits will need replacing too. If the big-end pins are pitted, buying a new SP-model crankshaft will probably be the most cost effective option unless you have an offer of good secondhand parts cheaply and can get all the new parts needed for the rebuild.

A standard R-model crankshaft rebuilt 'properly' should be more than adequate for road use. However, the more parts which need replacing, the less of an attractive option it becomes. If money is no object, just buy a new SP-model crankshaft. However, if you'd like to save money (if that is possible with a 3XV rebuild!) then have the standard crankshaft dismantled for inspection before deciding what to do.

Regards,
James

Thanks James appreciate your advice. I've since bought a repro inner seal and made contact with PJME who I have used before for a crank rebuild. They didnt even give me a chance to say that I had the inner seal and was just told "sorry you can't get the parts for those, we cant do it". I was quite dissapointed with the level of customer service there so won't bother with them again.

I have now contacted Chris Applebee engineering after seeing Waricks thread in the resources section to see if he still does the work. Awaiting  a reply but will take your advice and atleast have it inspected and go from there.

I absolutely do want to keep the costs to a minimum and money is certainly an object for me haha but theres been so much advice of the SP crank that maybe I should just bite the bullet!

Quote from: maccas on October 07, 2021, 03:59:18 PM
3ma and 3xv front wheels are the same. F49 code. Just fit the correct bearings and you should be good.

Dan

I've just realised this yesterday Dan! Thank for the heads up though!

Looks like mine could be a 3XV5 wheel. Great news as it means I don't have to wait 1-3 months for the one I've bought from Japan to arrive. Guess I'll have a spare!

So, to summarise my last two replies I know believe the white wheel IS a 3XV but is from a 3xv5 which I believe is the SP model? I'm sure someone will correct me if not.

Before I realised that I ended up buying a 3xv rim from Japan via Sendico. I miss read the translated description and it turns out it has "a slight flare in the rim when inspected on the rotary table" so it might need to visit Motoliner in kent to be straightened when it does arrive.

Scotty has also offered to swap a 3xv wheel for my Asahi which I'm really grateful for but now won't need.

I've now stripped the master cylinders and removed the rear tyre from the rim.

They have now gone across to the powder coaters along with a replacement swing arm i managed to get hold off on ebay. Hope I wasn't bidding against anyone here, I didn't have time to check when I saw it.


(https://i.ibb.co/NWcFXB7/16357665529092858509908570607550.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j3n8dXH)
(https://i.ibb.co/sPMZnTS/16357664937183131283734144516480.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g7BxN01)


It has virtually no damage to the chain slider area and he paddock stand bobbin/cotton reed mount thread is good (unlike my other one).

This saturday I'll get the tyre off the white rim and that can go across to the powder coaters too.

My brake calipers are back from Powerhouse. What a job! They look fantastic!

(https://i.ibb.co/dk72gwN/IMG-20210930-123607.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VM3SmcF)
(https://i.ibb.co/GktYcnM/IMG-20210930-123612.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mtXZ6by)
(https://i.ibb.co/FWb4vts/IMG-20210930-123618.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sPv9Sr5)
(https://i.ibb.co/HGj02xk/IMG-20210930-123627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p4SgPR9)

The brake lines however I've now found out are too short. Gavin had the same issue, told WezMoto about it and yet he's still producing the wrong size lines. It's a database issue clearly as I've also been told HEL lines are the same. I'm going to have to send off the old ones to someone to get them built to the right sizes.

(https://i.ibb.co/2SDKQcP/IMG-20211001-172538.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5kNcysv)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZY2r8ty/IMG-20211001-172541.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RBjK0ZL)

Quote from: AndyYam on October 07, 2021, 07:26:08 PM
I've since bought a repro inner seal and made contact with PJME who I have used before for a crank rebuild. They didnt even give me a chance to say that I had the inner seal and was just told "sorry you can't get the parts for those, we cant do it".

:( Yes, not great service perhaps - the response may have been different if you'd managed to mention the centre seal first! I was under the impression that all other parts (except for the inner webs with integral big-end pins) were still available for 3XV-R/RS crankshaft rebuilds - perhaps not though. Still, several other members have expressed satisfaction with Chris A so you should at least be able to get him to dismantle it for you. Let us know how you get on!

Regards,
James

Quote from: James P on October 16, 2021, 11:38:33 AM

Quote from: AndyYam on October 07, 2021, 07:26:08 PM
I've since bought a repro inner seal and made contact with PJME who I have used before for a crank rebuild. They didnt even give me a chance to say that I had the inner seal and was just told "sorry you can't get the parts for those, we cant do it".

:( Yes, not great service perhaps - the response may have been different if you'd managed to mention the centre seal first! I was under the impression that all other parts (except for the inner webs with integral big-end pins) were still available for 3XV-R/RS crankshaft rebuilds - perhaps not though. Still, several other members have expressed satisfaction with Chris A so you should at least be able to get him to dismantle it for you. Let us know how you get on!

Regards,
James

Still no reply from Chris A yet. I might try calling tomorrow. Although I'm now seriously considering an sp crank.

All the seals, conrods, bearings and labour will be in the region of £500 I think, that's if you are doing a full refesh. Given my chance again I think I would go for the SP crank and suck up the extra couple of hundred quid. Both sting mind.

+1 yan. My SP crank has been totally reliable, despite two soft and one hard lock-ups. It was checked by a top bike crank specialist here in the states. Nothing out of shape.

A new SP crank is expensive, but not as much as one failure/rebuild.

Good luck, Andy.

Steve

Chris has now replied but I tried asking for a quote to just take apart and inspect then a separate one for the subsequent rebuild if all other parts were OK. I would supply the inner seal.

All I got back was a quote for £400 for all the work.

I think this helps me decide to go down the sp crank route. I'm scared to pull the trigger but will do it soon. It will probably mean I will do the rest of the engine rebuild work myself. I have all the tools required including the blind bearing puller and it will be nice to know I've done the work myself. It will be over the winter, probably January/Feb time. April is my rough time to be all finished.

Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Beat me to it Rich  (-P)

Andy, suggest you contact Andy at Webbs  if only to gauge availability and your intention to order one. They do take a little sourcing and are not quite Unobtanium for the moment  :-X

Hi Andy
When I rebuilt my 3XV ten years ago I was told to replace the crank for SP as parts were impossible to source then in 2011, good luck with the project.

Quote from: AndyYam on October 18, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
All I got back was a quote for £400 for all the work.

:( It is a bit dissatisfying not having questions answered. It may have been better (with hindsight!) to call on the telephone or in person to ask the questions.

Don't throw your standard crankshaft away though - I'm sure you'll be able to find somebody to dismantle it for a nominal fee in due course (probably about 20 minutes work for someone with a bit of experience and the right tools)...you may even find it contains some perfectly serviceable parts, which you could sell or swap later.

Regards,
James

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Yeah this pushed it further to order last Saturday. Had a good chat with Andy too.

Quote from: thump566 on October 18, 2021, 09:29:39 PM
Beat me to it Rich  (-P)

Andy, suggest you contact Andy at Webbs  if only to gauge availability and your intention to order one. They do take a little sourcing and are not quite Unobtanium for the moment  :-X

Luckily he had one on the shelf. Andy said he tries to keep one in stock nowadays as lots of are being ordered. It arrived by the Tuesday!

Quote from: paul3xv on October 19, 2021, 07:26:52 PM
Hi Andy
When I rebuilt my 3XV ten years ago I was told to replace the crank for SP as parts were impossible to source then in 2011, good luck with the project.

Yup it seems it is the best option. I was very reluctant. That crank cost me more than I've ever spent on a car! Haha!

Quote from: James P on October 22, 2021, 10:24:27 AM

Quote from: AndyYam on October 18, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
All I got back was a quote for £400 for all the work.

:( It is a bit dissatisfying not having questions answered. It may have been better (with hindsight!) to call on the telephone or in person to ask the questions.

Don't throw your standard crankshaft away though - I'm sure you'll be able to find somebody to dismantle it for a nominal fee in due course (probably about 20 minutes work for someone with a bit of experience and the right tools)...you may even find it contains some perfectly serviceable parts, which you could sell or swap later.

Regards,
James

Yes possibly but I still feel it's easy enough to read the email and reply properly. No hard feelings at all I'm just quite busy at the moment and kinda needed that sign to appear to push me towards the SP anyway.

I don't feel any need for refurbishing the R crank as no one else seems to use them for the same reason I bought the SP. (if it is an R. I Still haven't stripped it. Would be amusing to find an sp in there!).

I've now got the tyre off the White rim and taken it across to the powder coaters also. That was last Monday so awaiting the phone call to say it's all ready now.

(https://i.ibb.co/fY276Qq/IMG-20211009-133115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lz8fjvY)
(https://i.ibb.co/N7Q54P9/IMG-20211009-133120.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JC0Vh4v)
(https://i.ibb.co/2676kn3/IMG-20211009-133124.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pPvPL0j)
(https://i.ibb.co/YBHqsGP/IMG-20211009-133131.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tpVWr5Q)

The SP crank has arrived too. For anyone interested the current price including UK postage was £757

(https://i.ibb.co/LkLwB2N/IMG-20211027-174318.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4m6yC51)
(https://i.ibb.co/QvwC9xJ/IMG-20211027-174324.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RTwB2Jg)
(https://i.ibb.co/g6rkHr4/IMG-20211027-174349.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7bSs8Sk)
(https://i.ibb.co/PDynYZv/IMG-20211027-174333.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hhys2Df)

I also managed to get a cheap tank cover on ebay. It's not the right colours but I'm thinking I might do a home spray job to match my Marlboro chinese fairing kit that came with the bike. It didn't come with a tank cover.

(https://i.ibb.co/QKKPJBJ/16357669868422834207550158495001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/crr6y5y)
(https://i.ibb.co/Z2KbQ6R/16357668944598642280023136498696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ZPpz70)

Things still to order:

• Brake lines (Front)
  Wheel bearings (Front & Back)
  Headstock bearings (Decided to buy one by the bearing code and re sell the NOS Yamaha one).
  Swing Arm Bearings (Will go for the thrust type as per SteveOG's advice and the relevant threads)
  Suspension Linkage Rebuild items
  Fork bushes
  Radiator
  Engine Seals
  Engine Gearbox bearings
  Gasket Sets
  Threebond 1215
  Front brake discs
  Choke Cables
  Carb rebuild kits.
  PV oil seals.
  Fuel Tank Cap

Regarding the choke cables I think I'm going to have to get some custom built. I have the ends on the carbs and the lever so just need to get the cables themselves. Anyone have any experience of custom cables?

Nice to see progress moneybags lol

Regarding hoses I always get mine made to my length not off the shelf, mine are double banjo'ed at the reservoir one of set 45° and about 2 inches longer than standard (front), back is overly long but snakes over the mudguard to avoid getting too dirty...

Keep up the good work....

Great progress. I think I might have a pair of bare oe choke cables in fact. PM me a reminder if you'd like me to have a look.  (-P)

Looking at your list Andy I think I probably did around 75% of what you are planning. Sometimes it seemed quite daunting but suddenly, you realise you're almost there  (-P)

As the guys have said, good progress, it seems to be coming together pretty quickly.
(Not sure how the budget is doing though, its a long list but then as long as her indoors doesn't realise, that's how I went anyway).

Quote from: AndyYam on November 01, 2021, 01:30:37 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Yeah this pushed it further to order last Saturday. Had a good chat with Andy too.

Quote from: thump566 on October 18, 2021, 09:29:39 PM
Beat me to it Rich  (-P)

Andy, suggest you contact Andy at Webbs  if only to gauge availability and your intention to order one. They do take a little sourcing and are not quite Unobtanium for the moment  :-X

Luckily he had one on the shelf. Andy said he tries to keep one in stock nowadays as lots of are being ordered. It arrived by the Tuesday!

Quote from: paul3xv on October 19, 2021, 07:26:52 PM
Hi Andy
When I rebuilt my 3XV ten years ago I was told to replace the crank for SP as parts were impossible to source then in 2011, good luck with the project.

Yup it seems it is the best option. I was very reluctant. That crank cost me more than I've ever spent on a car! Haha!

Quote from: James P on October 22, 2021, 10:24:27 AM

Quote from: AndyYam on October 18, 2021, 02:31:25 PM
All I got back was a quote for £400 for all the work.

:( It is a bit dissatisfying not having questions answered. It may have been better (with hindsight!) to call on the telephone or in person to ask the questions.

Don't throw your standard crankshaft away though - I'm sure you'll be able to find somebody to dismantle it for a nominal fee in due course (probably about 20 minutes work for someone with a bit of experience and the right tools)...you may even find it contains some perfectly serviceable parts, which you could sell or swap later.

Regards,
James

Yes possibly but I still feel it's easy enough to read the email and reply properly. No hard feelings at all I'm just quite busy at the moment and kinda needed that sign to appear to push me towards the SP anyway.

I don't feel any need for refurbishing the R crank as no one else seems to use them for the same reason I bought the SP. (if it is an R. I Still haven't stripped it. Would be amusing to find an sp in there!).

Great news  (-P) Better than waiting a year and paying more... like I did  ;D

Best advice on the budget is .. to try not to look  8)

Quote from: jamietzr250r on November 01, 2021, 09:19:00 PM
Nice to see progress moneybags lol

Regarding hoses I always get mine made to my length not off the shelf, mine are double banjo'ed at the reservoir one of set 45° and about 2 inches longer than standard (front), back is overly long but snakes over the mudguard to avoid getting too dirty...

Keep up the good work....

Haha cheers Jamie. As I'm sure you'll know from the news, NHS wages don't pay too well so money bags isn't quite accurate unfortunately :(

Yeah I think I'll just measure mine and give the sizes to someone to build. Had too many bad experiences of things going missing in the post and sellers being a PITA.

I only need front now as the rear from Wezmoto was ok.

Quote from: Warwick on November 01, 2021, 09:22:51 PM
Great progress. I think I might have a pair of bare oe choke cables in fact. PM me a reminder if you'd like me to have a look.  (-P)

That woud be fantastic. pm on its way!

Quote from: thump566 on November 01, 2021, 11:16:24 PM
Looking at your list Andy I think I probably did around 75% of what you are planning. Sometimes it seemed quite daunting but suddenly, you realise you're almost there  (-P)

As the guys have said, good progress, it seems to be coming together pretty quickly.
(Not sure how the budget is doing though, its a long list but then as long as her indoors doesn't realise, that's how I went anyway).

Cheers mate, the plan is certainly coming along nicely. Finding the time to turn all these bits back into a bike is going to be the interesting bit!

The budget is actually also doing well. I'm quite open about that as I want to prove it can be done. Not to prove anyone else wrong in anwway but just as a challenge to myself.

Once it's done I'll post the spreadsheet figures but at present we're at £4450 with around £1000 more known expenses. Budget is £6400 given the 400 extra I've allowed for the sp crank over the rebuild.

Quote from: AndyYam on November 01, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Regarding the choke cables I think I'm going to have to get some custom built. I have the ends on the carbs and the lever so just need to get the cables themselves. Anyone have any experience of custom cables?

If standard-length cables are what you need, you could probably pick up a pair secondhand at reasonable cost.

I have an occasional but recurring requirement for modifying existing cables and making new ones, so I bought all the necessary bits and pieces from Venhill and a cheap (but so far reliable) solder pot via Ebay. Venhill will also make cables to order if you can't justify investing in all the parts and tools. The special 'bird-caging' tool (although it works very well and is almost fool-proof) is quite expensive. It is however possible to obtain a similar result with a bit more care using assorted regular tools you may already have.

I myself have only bought parts from Venhill to make and modify my own cables, but I understand other forum members have bought complete cables. Alternatively, if you're on a shoe-string budget, you could probably scrounge a few knackered throttle cables and modify them into usable choke cables with only the cost of new nipples for the ends.

Regards,
James

Quote from: James P on November 08, 2021, 07:42:58 AM

Quote from: AndyYam on November 01, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Regarding the choke cables I think I'm going to have to get some custom built. I have the ends on the carbs and the lever so just need to get the cables themselves. Anyone have any experience of custom cables?

If standard-length cables are what you need, you could probably pick up a pair secondhand at reasonable cost.

I have an occasional but recurring requirement for modifying existing cables and making new ones, so I bought all the necessary bits and pieces from Venhill and a cheap (but so far reliable) solder pot via Ebay. Venhill will also make cables to order if you can't justify investing in all the parts and tools. The special 'bird-caging' tool (although it works very well and is almost fool-proof) is quite expensive. It is however possible to obtain a similar result with a bit more care using assorted regular tools you may already have.

I myself have only bought parts from Venhill to make and modify my own cables, but I understand other forum members have bought complete cables. Alternatively, if you're on a shoe-string budget, you could probably scrounge a few knackered throttle cables and modify them into usable choke cables with only the cost of new nipples for the ends.

Regards,
James

I have been looking for a while but none have been available for less than £100 with import and taxes.

Thankfully Warwick has got a pair and is sending to me for a more than fair price. Very happy!

good to know about Venhill. I will look into that in the future.

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

Quote from: 2strokeJP on November 08, 2021, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

Here it is... https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln (https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln) How have you gotten on with the Zeel? There's some thoughts the 3XV programme makes starting harder due to having the PV closed and a lot of advance.

Btw Andy, are you going Zeel or what CDI do you have?

Quote from: 2strokeJP on November 08, 2021, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

He doesn't work every day of the week, or even all day everyday. Telephone Webbs and speak to the spares dept. and ask for Andy

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on November 08, 2021, 07:20:12 PM

Quote from: 2strokeJP on November 08, 2021, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

Here it is... https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln (https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln) How have you gotten on with the Zeel? There's some thoughts the 3XV programme makes starting harder due to having the PV closed and a lot of advance.

Btw Andy, are you going Zeel or what CDI do you have?

The zeel undoubtedly makes the bike harder to start, i had the standard 3xv 60 cdi fitted for a bit, started first/2 nd kick, everytime, changed to the zeel and the instant effect was it was a bitch to start, presume the zeel can be set up to mimic the pv settings of the standard cdi on startup, the question is why does the standard map that comes with the zeel not do that?

The map supplied with the zeeltronic is a best guess. It's based on what Borut put into his own 3XV.  It's not meant to be the end point but a starting point for programming and tailoring the ignition to your motor/environment/usage. Someone with a motorised starter will need a different map to someone using a kick start

Quote from: 2strokeJP on November 08, 2021, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

I just called the Webbs number, pressed the option for parts and asked for Andy who knows about 3xv's. Worked a treat!

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on November 08, 2021, 07:20:12 PM

Quote from: 2strokeJP on November 08, 2021, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

Here it is... https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln (https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln) How have you gotten on with the Zeel? There's some thoughts the 3XV programme makes starting harder due to having the PV closed and a lot of advance.

Btw Andy, are you going Zeel or what CDI do you have?

I've not planned or budgeted for the zeel but would like to at some point. Is it something I should do as part of the build?

I have a -10 CDI. I don't really know what they all mean but from memory I was told it's an SP one and a bit more restrictive.

I'm really not looking to push every last hp out of the bike, it will already out perform my ability to ride it.

Quote from: AndyYam on November 09, 2021, 11:38:11 AM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on November 08, 2021, 07:20:12 PM

Quote from: 2strokeJP on November 08, 2021, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on October 18, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Don't wait too long... the SP crank has gone up from under £700 to £850 while I was considering it!

Don't forget to order from Andy @ Webbs (really helpful chap to speak to aswell) and get your 10% forum discount!

Is Andy from Webbs on the forum?
If anyone has his contact detail, please PM.
Thanks
Willing to buy a SP crank too for winter rebuild. After few tests with the Zeel, I will go for the safer way  ;D

Here it is... https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln (https://webbsmotorcycles.co.uk/webbs-of-lincoln) How have you gotten on with the Zeel? There's some thoughts the 3XV programme makes starting harder due to having the PV closed and a lot of advance.

Btw Andy, are you going Zeel or what CDI do you have?

I've not planned or budgeted for the zeel but would like to at some point. Is it something I should do as part of the build?

I have a -10 CDI. I don't really know what they all mean but from memory I was told it's an SP one and a bit more restrictive.

I'm really not looking to push every last hp out of the bike, it will already out perform my ability to ride it.

It can be done afterwards, it's a pretty straightforward job to install.

Looks like the -10 CDI cuts the advance after 8k like most of the other restricted CDIs.

Quote from: mellorp on November 09, 2021, 10:29:49 AM
The map supplied with the zeeltronic is a best guess. It's based on what Borut put into his own 3XV.  It's not meant to be the end point but a starting point for programming and tailoring the ignition to your motor/environment/usage. Someone with a motorised starter will need a different map to someone using a kick start

Agreed. I emailed Bourt about the PV being closed in his starting map and open on other CDIs and he said "change it"!  ;D

Well given that my PV control unit on my RD350 died on Saturday and a replacement would be more than the Zeel I'll now be ordering that from Borut and so might as well order one for the 3XV at the same time.

I'm continuing to gather parts for the rebuild in the most frugal way possible and as a result have put a post in the resources with links and info on generic part number seals, bushes, bearings, collars for the sus link and Swing arm.

I might strip mine down this weekend to confirm that the numbers are correct and that these items are right. Fingers crossed my collars are in good condition and don't need replacing but all seals and bearings will be done.

I will be following SteveOG, Warwick and the others who suggested to do the SP Thrust washer mod ofcourse.

http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=7681.msg75256#msg75256 (http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=7681.msg75256#msg75256)

Had some time yesterday so decided to strip down the Suspension linkage.

(https://i.ibb.co/3RzQqrC/IMG-20211120-131739.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXYRGwj)
(https://i.ibb.co/TkHcrPf/IMG-20211120-131736.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1L9ZbRg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cb7b5pg/IMG-20211120-131729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyMyv9m)

Everything came apart easily and looks like it might have rebuilt fairly recently to it going off the road. Other than the collars I'll still replace all the bearings and seals.

I know this probably isn't the best way to remove the bearings and I'll work out a better way to press the new ones in but it did the job.

(https://i.ibb.co/80dCFVz/IMG-20211120-132213.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L8JF4fQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/VQBZ3JN/IMG-20211120-132120.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nnkvR60)
(https://i.ibb.co/4m1rqr4/IMG-20211120-132117.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2nZ494c)

Confirmed that the bearing codes were the correct ones from the post I made in the Resources section.

(https://i.ibb.co/hy7mpdM/IMG-20211120-145506-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/px0LCKP)
(https://i.ibb.co/q09dPXx/IMG-20211120-145459-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wJCRx3Y)

stuck the whole lot in the ultrasonic cleaner although not sure how much difference it really made.

(https://i.ibb.co/ngzXRkV/IMG-20211120-133844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3rBxkh8)
(https://i.ibb.co/QFD4j4S/IMG-20211120-144751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HDhjpjw)
(https://i.ibb.co/HrWX6HC/IMG-20211120-144743.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9qFG6rh)
(https://i.ibb.co/gzQd1rm/IMG-20211120-144706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PwJMprF)


The I've put the whole lot back in a bag after giving them all a coating of ACF50 to protect them til I get the parts and rebuild it.

(https://i.ibb.co/R7Q5Dtj/IMG-20211120-145158.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lv9GZBN)

The ultrasonic probably doesn't do much Andy, unless you add a fairly aggressive chemical.
I chuck my smaller parts in a bucket of mildly diluted (water based) degreaser, scrub them with a soft wire brush (definitely never the wife's toothbrush) then soda-blast them. Once they're good and clean it's the ACF50 which is great stuff, though about 50 quid a litre here.
I'll be doing my linkages soon too, so this is a great read.  (-P)

Quote from: Mananon on November 22, 2021, 04:14:30 AM
The ultrasonic probably doesn't do much Andy, unless you add a fairly aggressive chemical.
I chuck my smaller parts in a bucket of mildly diluted (water based) degreaser, scrub them with a soft wire brush (definitely never the wife's toothbrush) then soda-blast them. Once they're good and clean it's the ACF50 which is great stuff, though about 50 quid a litre here.
I'll be doing my linkages soon too, so this is a great read.  (-P)

£50 a litre!!! Wow and I thought it was expensive at 1/2 that price here!

I just had a look into soda blasting. I don't have a compressor so would require some investment but looks like something worth having in the future.

Glad the info is useful! The part numbers etc are all on the thread in the resources section.

Yep, the ACF50 is super expensive. It's had to get there though and is only stocked by suppliers to aircraft owners. They may be another product that does the same and is more readily available, but I don't know what that might be.

When I fist dabbled in soda-blasting I just got one of the cheapo guns as pictured below, borrowed or hired a compressor (finally bought one second hand for the equivalent of £50) and did it in a corner of the yard by the garage which is pretty confined and windless. I fixed up a big tarp on the floor and against walls and fences on 3 sides to catch the soda. If you buy from a bulk supplier the soda is cheap but it makes a mess if you don't catch most of it. I reckon I get about a 90>% recovery rate and the rest just washes away when it rains.

Quote from: Mananon on November 23, 2021, 09:01:28 PM
Yep, the ACF50 is super expensive. It's had to get there though and is only stocked by suppliers to aircraft owners. They may be another product that does the same and is more readily available, but I don't know what that might be.

When I fist dabbled in soda-blasting I just got one of the cheapo guns as pictured below, borrowed or hired a compressor (finally bought one second hand for the equivalent of £50) and did it in a corner of the yard by the garage which is pretty confined and windless. I fixed up a big tarp on the floor and against walls and fences on 3 sides to catch the soda. If you buy from a bulk supplier the soda is cheap but it makes a mess if you don't catch most of it. I reckon I get about a 90>% recovery rate and the rest just washes away when it rains.

Thanks Mananon, great info. Thump has been in contact to say he might have a compressor I can borrow to give it a go so when the engine is stripped I might get one of those bottle guns to give it ago on the engine cases. I assume it's safe for engine cases etc also?

Does anyone know what you treat the cases etc with once they have been blasted?

This is the state of my current engine so hoping it will be a good way to clean it up.

(https://i.ibb.co/NWpJB6Q/IMG-20211120-151254.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xzGBTSP)
(https://i.ibb.co/XkNDtRs/IMG-20211120-151251.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NnQrKBj)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kz7TNkz/IMG-20211120-151243.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tPcVZtP)
(https://i.ibb.co/F4wZtGG/IMG-20211120-151248.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3mN6Htt)

Hey Andy,

I'm pulling the swing arm off mine this weekend (wife and time permitting) so I'll give my linkages a blast and will post some before and after photos. I've attached a photo of an entire engine (RVF400) that's been soda blasted. Those engines are painted but it was very corroded nonetheless.
Your cases are pretty bad so I'd seriously consider taking it in to a specialist. There are loads of different things a specialist will have to choose from but I suspect they'll recommend vapour blasting and as you'll see in the photo below the results are superb. They should have silicone bungs to plug all the holes so you won't have to brake the engine down to just get the cases done.
If you do try the bottle gun bear in mind that it makes a hell of a mess and you'll go through quite a lot of soda. The bottle will empty in just a minute or two. So long as you can catch most of it then 5 or 10 KG will serve you well and you can reuse it again and again. I get mine from a bulk baking supplies shop and it's only about a quid a kilo.

Once it's cleaned up, to protect the bare aluminium there are loads of opinions on what's best. Some say WD40, some say paraffin but I'd stick to the ACF50.
ACF50 isn't just a corrosion inhibitor, it actively attacks corrosion and is a great long term (up to a year) protector. To a limited degree it will lift out old corrosion too. You can use it on electrics, plastics and pretty much everything, though keep it off your tyres, discs and pads.

Cheers,
Duncan

My engine was "Glass Bead" blasted by a pro shop, Andy. Not terribly expensive. $65 USD for the entire engine. The finish is satin-like and received no protective coating. These comparison shots were taken just over three years apart. Mine is a track bike, so your results may vary when the bike is exposed to street conditions. Salt and and petrol are the enemy. Instant corrosion.

I have heard that engines can be "clear-coated", but that would seem to complicate the natural heat dissipation of aluminum. On the other hand, many engines come painted from the factory, so its probably a question of chemical make-up of the paint.

Good Luck

Steve

Thank you both for the pics and info. It seems like vapour blasting or glass will the way forward.

The engine is to be fully rebuilt anyway so fortunately I won't need to worry about rubber bungs etc.

It's good to know that it won't need a coating. I'll only really be riding it in the dry and will be cleaning it regularly so ACF will do the job nicely I expect. I just wasn't sure if there was an original coating applied in the factory that would be removed if blasted and leave it vulnerable.

I've just looked at local Vapour Blasting and I'ts likely to be about £180. Ouch! My budget is going to be exceeded and I will fail my challenge I feel!

My new front brake hoses arrived (correct lengths now having supplied them myself) 650mm and 600mm is what they should be.

Yesterday the sus link and swing arm bearings, thrust washers and seals arrived. The seals are actually a sort of olive green colour but it doesn't bother me. They'll only be on the sus linkage and if anyone asks I'll tell them they are superduper state of the art upgrades.

I've done a bit of research this evening and found a new option for home blasting that I intend to try out.

There are attachments available that fit standard pressure washers (which I already have) that allow you to add a media to the high pressure water. They are intended for sand which I imagine would be far too abrassive for use on aluminium ( A Loo me num for those across the pond  :P ).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352277239541?hash=item52055c16f5:g:HEAAAOSwdTJafaxk

Heres a link to someone using one with building sand. Looks quite effective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT4tVDdJsjA

I think I'll try this with both bicarbonate of soda (baking soda for those across the pond  :P) and walnut shells. Thats right I said walnut shells. Apparently it's used a good eco friendly alternative and presumably alot less harmful to the aluminium too.

Fine Grade Walunt shells available on this link:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323770792536?var=512762121760&hash=item4b623e3a58:g:z2EAAOSwDNdVxLlx

If i use the walnut shells and create a set up where I blast into something that will allow water through but not the fine grade shell then i can ofcourse dry out and re use the shells which would be a bonus compared to the soda. I'm not sure how much it will use and how quickly but if it can be collecting and re used then it'll be a worthy investment to buy a big bag of the shells.

Watch this space.

Walnut is good but don't use it on anything that is going to be painted as it will "fish eye" from the oils apparently.

AL YOU MIN KNEE UM......better
SHASS SEA......that gets me even more.....

Anyway already knew about walnut shells, the thing about 'Sand blasting' is it's a generic term, you can use almost any medium for blasting. You can even use a blaster to peen a surface to close up the pores to stop corrosion. It's all about the medium, the materials and pressure......

Pulled the back end off today and the suspension linkages weren't bad at all.
The photo below of the dog-bones are after a wash and scrub in a tub of degreaser. Pretty good as they are so that'll do for now. I'm out of ACF but when the new lot arrives by post I'll give them a spray and they'll go back in the rip-lock bag of associated parts. The two-hole knuckle is clearly has a much smoother finish with hardly any casting flash, so was a doddle to clean.
The back brake hanger was much worse so I've done a before and after and also one of the sprocket carrier and cush rubbers which have had a very gentle blast.
I'll be interested to see how your water/medium blasting goes Andy.

Just a small hint, Mananon: Soak the sprocket cushion rubbers in kerosene (overnight). It not only helps clean them up (toothbrush scrubbing still needed), but the rubbers also expand slightly and takes up any "slop factor" time has worn away.

Good Luck

Steve

Good tip Steve. I've got some paraffin (almost the same as Kerosene) around here somewhere.

A lot of good tips and pics here  (-P) great work guys

Quote from: Steveog on November 28, 2021, 03:05:36 AM
Just a small hint, Mananon: Soak the sprocket cushion rubbers in kerosene (overnight). It not only helps clean them up (toothbrush scrubbing still needed), but the rubbers also expand slightly and takes up any "slop factor" time has worn away.

Good Luck

Steve

Nice one Steve  (-P)

A little update:

My powder coating was all ready a couple of weeks ago and so it's all home. I laid out the big bits in the garage to see it all together. There is ofcourse the smaller bits still in a big box including brackets, master cylinders etc. I'm very happy with the result. I know it's not technically the correct colour as it's an off the shelf powdercoat but I think it looks great.

(https://i.ibb.co/CBpWTZm/IMG-20211213-WA0001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G7fFbLn)
(https://i.ibb.co/N3vTjVq/IMG-20211213-WA0007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0X7sMDL)


I had an afternoon in the garage today! Woohoo!. Just came in now at 22:30 so maybe "afternoon" is and understatement.

I spent some time preparing for and ordering wheel bearings. I had a real nightmare infact. I got all confused with there being 3 bearings on the rear including the sprocket carrier bearing and I'm still convinced that the bearings listed on the manual are in correct or I have a different front wheel....oh no not this again....

My Sprocket side inner bearing (the one actually in the rim) is a B60042rs (20 x 42 x 12)
My sprocket carrier bearing is a 62/22DU (22 x 50 x 14)
My disc side wheel bearing is a 60/22DU (22 x 44 x 12)

Thats what I've currently ordered for the rear but the manual tells me that two bearings that sit actually in the rim are the same bearing (B6004RS) but this simply is wrong as far as I can see. Both of these bearings have a spacer that pushes into the centre of the bearing and therfore reduces the centre gap by 2mm which means they would have to be 22mm. It drove me bloody mad this afternoon and then I got confused and thought the fronts were both B60042RS as well but turns out they are not. They are: 62032RS so I've now ordered a couple of those off ebay for £2.40 each. Providing they are the right size and the quality is good (Dunlop) then I will use them.

(https://i.ibb.co/G7Kr31g/IMG-20211227-WA0007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SNhZ71q)
(https://i.ibb.co/T4QjRmk/IMG-20211227-WA0008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R3XrPz9)
(https://i.ibb.co/rm3vXRm/IMG-20211227-WA0013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BtGwY5t)

Another small issue I have at the moment is that the disc side spacer is stuck in the old bearing. That 2mm thick bit that pokes though is well and truly stuck and difficult to get anything on it to push it through. The one from the sprocket carrier I was able to push out using a socket and a larger socket like a cup on the other side but this was it's impossible to do that with.

I'll probably end up buying a new spacer but will give it some good bashing about first and if it gets damaged then a new spacer it'll be. looks like they are available still on back order.

(https://i.ibb.co/LdhScQ2/IMG-20211227-WA0015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kxz6fN3)
(https://i.ibb.co/vJthkhF/IMG-20211227-WA0017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JzhqHq1)

I fitted my new choke cables into the choke lever mechanism. Thank you very much Warwick for those!

(https://i.ibb.co/fXsHKHZ/IMG-20211227-153800.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x2N6c6w)

I removed the old needle bearings from the freshly painted swing arm. It did cause a little damage to the powder coating as expected but these will be under the thrust covers anyway. On that note I forgot that my old swing arm has substantial damage to that area and therfore the thrust cover was also damaged. I'll need a new one so will need to get that ordered.

(https://i.ibb.co/1v7RghR/IMG-20211227-152533.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZLGcjtc)
(https://i.ibb.co/fY5ZFp0/IMG-20211227-152521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gMpQ9Tg)
(https://i.ibb.co/9qRnr2j/IMG-20211227-152511.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P5Bx648)
(https://i.ibb.co/qMvygny/IMG-20211227-152506.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhzn25n)

I had a quick look at the forks and found no play between uppers and lowers so have decided not to replace the bushes. I also removed the dust seals to check the condition underneath and it all looked very new. I suspect the seals had been replaced fairly soon to it going off the road in SA. They are not leaking so I will change the fluid and go as is for now.

(https://i.ibb.co/G7YM8zv/IMG-20211227-215808.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BLW6Q0V)
(https://i.ibb.co/23dcvRW/IMG-20211227-215806.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DfQw9mz)

I also had a look at the lower yoke / steering stem. I had a bash at removing the bearing but my god it does not want to move. I've defo made some marks of the base of the yoke. Hopefully nothing too serious. I ended up removing the seal and the cage & roller bearings to see what I was doing. I heated the whole thing up with a 550C heat gun and tried some more pesuasion but to no avail. I guess I will be a case of dremel and trying not to damage the stem. I saw YBK's pics when I started frantically searching for the answer. I also noticed Motion Pro do a tool for it but it's like £137(see 2nd link below). I might look at some kind of bearing pulley like in the link below but at present can't find any that would be long enough to fit over the top of the stem. Any other suggestions welcomed and appreciated!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brook-reams/32352788254

https://www.mdracingproducts.co.uk/motion-pro-steering-stem-bearing-tool.html

After giving up on that for now I started to look at the master cylinders. I couldn't find a rebuild kit for the rear and had remember that the internals looked pretty good when dissasembling so will put it back together as is and see where we are at. I found a replacement front kit for £24 and so made a start fitting that. After some time working out which way round the spring goes, which way the cup seal goes and at which end of the spring I pushed it all in and it did not feel right. The piston itself didnt want to go in either and looked too big for the bore. When it finally dawned on me that I was holding the rear master cylinder and trying to fit the front rebuild kit I decided it was time to stop for the night. Maybe it was tiredness, maybe it was the 2 bottles of Ale but I'm just glad i stopped before I broken something...and this is how it was all left...

(https://i.ibb.co/1X4TCck/IMG-20211227-223451.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T0NtQys)

I will try and spend some more time tomorrow getting the master cylinders rebuilt and maybe the swing arm bearings fitted (the needle bearings are in the freezer tonight).

Lower steering stem bearing is pressed on.
And usually pressed back on.

Unless you have a suitable puller you'll generally need to grind a slot in the lower bearing inner to allow you to use a cold chisel to get it off. Probs some videos on YouTube?

Rear wheel looks like it's an SP set-up, with the captive spacers, so will need the SP size bearings. Try not to muller the spacer as i suspect a replacement will be expensive and/or hard to source. Heat and a soak in penetrating fluid will probably help you get it out of the bearing relatively easily. 

Powder coat look real nice (-P) I see they coated the inside of the hub as well, that might take out the slack from the old cush drive rubbers which may have an unintended positive effect..

Dremel that yoke bearing, when the you grind through or get close the end of the inner race it just pops off  :)) Use a suitably sized pipe to drift the new one into place. I usually put the yoke in the freezer overnight.

The SP captive spacers makes bearing replacement a little trickier as you have to seat them with the seal in place (support the inner race from the back). Less swearing when assembling the wheels afterwards though.

Quote from: ybk on December 30, 2021, 04:13:25 AM
Powder coat look real nice (-P) I see they coated the inside of the hub as well, that might take out the slack from the old cush drive rubbers which may have an unintended positive effect..

Dremel that yoke bearing, when the you grind through or get close the end of the inner race it just pops off  :)) Use a suitably sized pipe to drift the new one into place. I usually put the yoke in the freezer overnight.

The SP captive spacers makes bearing replacement a little trickier as you have to seat them with the seal in place (support the inner race from the back). Less swearing when assembling the wheels afterwards though.

Yup there were a few bits where I should have given more info / maybe they could have called to ask  but as you say this one might be a bonus. Previously I've wrapped cush drive rubbers in old inner tube to take out the slack.

Success on the yoke front, more on that in the following post.

Quote from: Warwick on December 28, 2021, 11:04:32 AM
Unless you have a suitable puller you'll generally need to grind a slot in the lower bearing inner to allow you to use a cold chisel to get it off. Probs some videos on YouTube?

Rear wheel looks like it's an SP set-up, with the captive spacers, so will need the SP size bearings. Try not to muller the spacer as i suspect a replacement will be expensive and/or hard to source. Heat and a soak in penetrating fluid will probably help you get it out of the bearing relatively easily. 

Quote from: SeaR1ck on December 28, 2021, 03:23:59 AM
Lower steering stem bearing is pressed on.
And usually pressed back on.

Cheers Warwick & Rick. I followed your advice in the end and it worked. pics and info to follow.

I got another afternoon in the garage yesterday and had a great day!

Following Warwicks advice on not mullering what I now know to be an SP captive spacer I went to work on recovering it. Luckily I had the other bearing from the otherside so could match a socket that fitted perfectly through the inner of the bearing. I have a set of pullers that I bought and could never really get to grips with (pun intended) but managed to get a really good hold on the bearing and with the puller held in the vice I wound on the pressure. A satisfying crack was heard as the spacer broken free of the corrosion and the spacer wound out nicely.

(https://i.ibb.co/pPhVB2G/IMG-20211229-135556.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N3TDdxQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/8jsC0qC/IMG-20211229-135600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SKyjPbj)
(https://i.ibb.co/2Yy6Ckw/IMG-20211229-135604.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jZT5Qrd)
(https://i.ibb.co/d5M0zqC/IMG-20211229-135705.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Krhj3k4)
(https://i.ibb.co/G7S5pKC/IMG-20211229-135711.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BLMC3XT)

With this now off I was able to put everything on the rear spindle to help me not get so confused as to which bearing is which. Bar 1 oil seal that I had to cut away this is all the components that will fit around the wheel.

(https://i.ibb.co/QrZQzyr/IMG-20211229-162113.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cDP3M4D)

Feeling confident I moved on to the stem and stubborn bearing. I got the Rotary mutli tool out that for legal reasons can't be called a Dremel and some cheap diamond cutting discs I bought off ebay a while ago. Expecting a big fight i settled in with a garden chair and and kept cutting a bit then checking I'd not got near the stem. Rinse....and...repeat is what I was expecting but after about 2-3 goes I decided to wedge a screwdriver in the gap and to my suprise it popped off. Amazing how that little release of pressure can change things. I guess the vibrations of the cutting, the heat and the plusgas (penetrating oil) that had been soaking in for 48 hours ish helped too.

(https://i.ibb.co/0Js9FJR/IMG-20211229-142136.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rydpcyR)
(https://i.ibb.co/0jq6HcZ/IMG-20211229-142143.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yn0ZHX5)
(https://i.ibb.co/tLr3qX3/IMG-20211229-142145.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FHTn5Vn)
(https://i.ibb.co/d275mNs/IMG-20211229-140753.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k8MSmLV)
(https://i.ibb.co/3CyZJHp/IMG-20211229-141633.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JsRJhPv)
(https://i.ibb.co/12g9w5h/IMG-20211229-141946.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0J7fdS8)
(https://i.ibb.co/VxnnHNX/IMG-20211229-141943.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hcQQXMp)
I later continued the cut of the old inner racer all the way through so that I can use this to knock home the new bearing. The yoke is now in the freezer. I guess I can;t get the bearing too hot due to the rubber seal. If it gets stuck before its fully home then it'll be to a workshop with a bearing press and some correct size pipe or something as suggeste by Warwick I think?
(https://i.ibb.co/GsLN99D/IMG-20211229-142056.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1s5jMMN)
(https://i.ibb.co/QYys5mm/IMG-20211229-175403.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wp5Dv66)
(https://i.ibb.co/V9gKqFj/IMG-20211229-175416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B3y1Chz)

With even more confidence I decided to fit the swing arm needle bearings. They had been in the freezer for a couple of days now and I pointed my little garage fan heater at the swing arm to get it warm. I got some ACF 50 grease on a rag and ran it through the pivot hole. If this has to come off in the future I wasnt it to be easy and clean.

(https://i.ibb.co/f0PL0KD/IMG-20211229-164506.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JdvJWs)
(https://i.ibb.co/0CQGKrk/IMG-20211229-164529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YcbLXh6)
(https://i.ibb.co/X7tyMs5/IMG-20211229-164549.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v3ksRPd)

I got the bearings out ad tried to push them in but they didnt want to go in as easily as I would have hoped given the heat differences and ended up having to use the ole bearing and knocking them in. I know this isnt ideal and should have waited til I could get some threaded bar but I decided to go ahead. I got a bit confused with the first one and thought that the thrust washer stack would need to go inside with this so kocked the bearing in a bit further than I should have. I used my blind bearing puller to try and bring it back a bit but decided it would be best to leave it in. It's like 2-3mm I'd say further than it should be. If anyone thinks this will be a huge problem I'll order new bearings and go again but at the mo I'm leaving as it.

The thrust washers/bearings got the acf50 grease too and my current end caps went over for now. I found someone willing to sell me 2 nos ones of £37.50 delivered so they are on their way here now.

I then moved on to the master cylinders and both have now been rebuilt. The front with new seals and the rear with originals as I believed at the time I couldnt get the kit but now see that I can. I'll see how it feels once on the bike and decide whether to rebuild again. I neglected to take pics of these but will add some in tomorrow maybe. All I have for now is a photo of the kit I bought for the front.

(https://i.ibb.co/zn6qXDc/IMG-20211229-152853.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6nXjHLh)

I did a few jobs of cleaning bits up and adding to the "Ready to go" section of my storage crates. It's really nice to see this build and tackling each job as one small thing was nice.

I found I have two oil tanks so chose the best and cleaned that up. I used a combination of Bicarbonate Of Soda (Banking soda) and WD40 to do an inital clean and then ACF50 almost polished in and wiped away (sparingly) towards the end of the day when cleaning the rear light I realised that furniture polish worked very well too on the plastic bits and gave that nice shine so I might go back over this with some.

(https://i.ibb.co/myvKF58/IMG-20211230-133039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SmQg7wr)
(https://i.ibb.co/vDwnbqL/IMG-20211230-133044.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t3mrSKY)
(https://i.ibb.co/j9t2Gjt/IMG-20211230-133049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BHkxjYk)
(https://i.ibb.co/2dpRvTt/IMG-20211230-140020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L1sBx3t)
(https://i.ibb.co/CJBKrwD/IMG-20211230-155808.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KN6x15S)

The coolant tank also got "the treatment" and came up lovely. I was happy how much of the yellow colouration went and didn't notice during the process until looking at the photos after.

(https://i.ibb.co/VCGDbcB/IMG-20211230-160204.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Smg0H4v)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZxmNskT/IMG-20211230-160208.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yqSVTbs)
(https://i.ibb.co/MNcJqCs/IMG-20211230-160210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BsyY8Ct)
(https://i.ibb.co/McFYTF6/IMG-20211230-160952.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZBqnsqm)
(https://i.ibb.co/71PJ9YD/IMG-20211230-160958.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CHg5r1y)
(https://i.ibb.co/CmNBMHm/IMG-20211230-161000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbG2RLb)

I was looking over the coils HT leads and spark plug caps and noticed that one has some damaged to the lead. I've order 1metre of new lead and will likely get replacement caps towards the completetion time of the project. For anyone interested its 7mm OF HT lead. I just went on ebay (£2.39 a metre delivered). -https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130860567336


As far as i know the coils are good so we'll find out later on unless anyone can suggest an easy way to test? I hate electrics :(

(https://i.ibb.co/cNXn7Bh/IMG-20211230-155823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LCh72Fd)
(https://i.ibb.co/y4jB3cm/IMG-20211230-155826.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LN7hGXD)
(https://i.ibb.co/bXbXVb5/IMG-20211230-155837.jpg) (https://ibb.co/njPjyPM)

I gave the clocks a clean over with acf50 / wd 40. I will go over again with furniture polish i expect. I want to removed the old foam and will buy some of the same thickness and try making my own but could only worked out how to remove two of the "fake allen" head caps. They are acyually push clips but 1 of them must be accessed from inside and I didn't want to delve into that at the time.

(https://i.ibb.co/s1JdVkD/IMG-20211230-162640.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNGzxBK)
(https://i.ibb.co/fdnH1yy/IMG-20211230-162645.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r2cH7zz)
(https://i.ibb.co/bNq5mWR/IMG-20211230-162647.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zPjVxnH)

The rear brake caliper mount got a going over with brake cleaner and a tooth brush it worked a bit but was taking ages of reapplying and scrubbing. I now have my jet wash attachment for media blasting and so when I can I will give that a go. Maybe tomorrow if I can get some bicarbonate of soda somewhere local in bulk. These photos are just the before's as I forgot to get photos after.

(https://i.ibb.co/yFZXNF0/IMG-20211230-172649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4THc41)
(https://i.ibb.co/RjJnJtK/IMG-20211230-172645.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fDTRTZW)

I cleaned up the handle bars with brake cleaner but again forgot to get many photos but was happy with how they came out. Again, just the before shots here at the mo.

(https://i.ibb.co/TTbc9G8/IMG-20211229-183555.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xsfhxbj)
(https://i.ibb.co/SV84mFP/IMG-20211229-183557.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wpXFQ5R)
(https://i.ibb.co/NpYzNbt/IMG-20211229-183600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J2kPpgm)
(https://i.ibb.co/WfD2nhD/IMG-20211229-183602.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nj3LrG3)
(https://i.ibb.co/Z2YC5Wq/IMG-20211229-183606.jpg) (https://ibb.co/km9FjQN)

I had bought a spare rear shock that looked to be in much better condition that mine. It's basically just been sand blasted so I really don't know what the interenals are like and have no way to test. I removed the dust seals from the lower mounting point and cleaned through the bush/round/thing with brake cleaner. I packed it all with acf50 grease, fully cleaned the seals and put it all back together. The top rubber bush seems to be strong. If the shock is knackered then that'll be future Andy's problem and depending on finances at the time I might buy a new Aftermarket one.

(https://i.ibb.co/7RrWJnX/IMG-20211229-182649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wwpWNSR)
(https://i.ibb.co/qDMKZ3x/IMG-20211229-182651.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HKD6JfX)
(https://i.ibb.co/nPv7tP2/IMG-20211229-182656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rjm3djn)
(https://i.ibb.co/B6hYnFB/IMG-20211229-182659.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HPc9h3q)

I also checked over and cleaned up a few other bits such as the Rear light unit, rear disc, checked the loom for any damaged/missing connectors (none noticed woohoo), throttle tube and throttle housing,

(https://i.ibb.co/CJ5h3jg/IMG-20211230-155810.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4sZPnbz)
(https://i.ibb.co/HPBN698/IMG-20211230-155812.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WzGDZRJ)

I ordered a replacement front brake lever (after market) mine was a slightly different type - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313543943797

I found that the clutch lever holder that I got powdercoated is not a 3XV one and so will go with that for now and may replace later.

I bought my swing arm bobbins and hooks(https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154684069074)...
...
and ordered some other small bits that I'll need:

The correct side oil seal for the rear SP wheel disc side - https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p26544/30x50x7mm-Nitrile-Rubber-Rotary-Shaft-Oil-Seal-with-Garter-Spring-R23-/-TC/product_info.html
Upper head stock bearing - https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p14780/SKF-32005XQ-Metric-Single-Row-Taper-Roller-Bearing-25x47x15mm/product_info.html


The only other thing of note is that I'm gonna use the TZ discs for now as I've found the EBC codes for the correct ones but combined will be about £300 and until the engine is finished this might break the budget.

MD2022RS  & MD2022LS in case anyone is wondering. EBC product codes. EBC have confirmed to me that they are 6 bolt hole pattent regardless of what they images are showing on some retailers. These are 282mm diameter discs with a 9.5mm offset.

Over and out for now.

Great work, so far.

Considering the installation of the lower steering bearing: You could use a focused heat gun "carefully" on the inner race pointed up through the bearing and away from the seal, use a bit of grease and tap it home with a PVC tube matching the OD of the stem and the inner race of the bearing. If you can't find the proper ID PVC, an aluminum washer can be found and placed between the closest matching PVC and the bearing.

A press would be better, but not necessary. Obviously, don't let the lower bearing get cock-eyed on the steering shaft.

Good Luck

Steve

Andy, just a heads up to be aware of.  ???

Re the replacement front brake lever (after market). Someone I know had a replacement lever fitted to the ZX636 just before he got it, and periodically the front brake would lock on whilst riding without warning  :o After much diagnosis, turned out the after market front brake lever was not identical to the OEM part and was putting pressure on the m/c piston without any input from the rider causing it to lock on.

Moral of story ....  Check the replacement front brake lever (after market) is the same as the OEM part  (-P) 

Quote from: Steveog on December 31, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
Great work, so far.

Considering the installation of the lower steering bearing: You could use a focused heat gun "carefully" on the inner race, use a bit of grease and tap it home with a PVC tube matching the OD of the stem and the inner race of the bearing. If you can't find the proper ID PVC, an aluminum washer can be found and placed between the closest matching PVC and the bearing.

A press would be better, but not necessary. Obviously, don't let the lower bearing get cock-eyed on the steering shaft.

Good Luck

Steve

thats a good idea Steve. I might just get some pvc pipe. I wasnt sure it would be strong enough so assumed it needed to be metal.

Quote from: thump566 on December 31, 2021, 11:04:46 PM
Andy, just a heads up to be aware of.  ???

Re the replacement front brake lever (after market). Someone I know had a replacement lever fitted to the ZX636 just before he got it, and periodically the front brake would lock on whilst riding without warning  :o After much diagnosis, turned out the after market front brake lever was not identical to the OEM part and was putting pressure on the m/c piston without any input from the rider causing it to lock on.

Moral of story ....  Check the replacement front brake lever (after market) is the same as the OEM part  (-P)

Ah ok that sounds fun =/ I will defo check to make sure its not pressing on the piston! Sounds like an adjustment issue though surely?

The PVC used as a driver is very strong. Of course, get a large wall-thickness that has the appropriate ID.

Keep On. Looking good.

Steve

Quote from: AndyYam on January 01, 2022, 12:17:10 AM

Quote from: thump566 on December 31, 2021, 11:04:46 PM
Andy, just a heads up to be aware of.  ???

Re the replacement front brake lever (after market). Someone I know had a replacement lever fitted to the ZX636 just before he got it, and periodically the front brake would lock on whilst riding without warning  :o After much diagnosis, turned out the after market front brake lever was not identical to the OEM part and was putting pressure on the m/c piston without any input from the rider causing it to lock on.

Moral of story ....  Check the replacement front brake lever (after market) is the same as the OEM part  (-P)

Ah ok that sounds fun =/ I will defo check to make sure its not pressing on the piston! Sounds like an adjustment issue though surely?

In this scenario even adjustment didn't resolve it so a couple of mm was machined away in the cylinder actuator I was told, personally I would have fitted an OEM lever instead but don't believe anyone realised it was an aftermarket item fitted, was such a "good" copy.

Great progress Andy. Keep at it and you'll have a runner by the spring.  (-P)

Just noticed that your coil with the black plug isn't an oe 3XV coil. It might work OK, but as it needs some attention anyway, you might want to keep an eye out for an oe 3XV replacement coil to keep things matched? If looking, make sure you get one for the relevant cylinder, with the right length HT cable.

Similar question with with the CDi really. It'll run with the SP 10 box, but it will go better with a 00 unit as this is a better match for your motor if you are keeping things stock for the time being.

Keep at it.  8)

Quote from: Warwick on January 01, 2022, 01:02:27 PM
Great progress Andy. Keep at it and you'll have a runner by the spring.  (-P)

Just noticed that your coil with the black plug isn't an oe 3XV coil. It might work OK, but as it needs some attention anyway, you might want to keep an eye out for an oe 3XV replacement coil to keep things matched? If looking, make sure you get one for the relevant cylinder, with the right length HT cable.

Similar question with with the CDi really. It'll run with the SP 10 box, but it will go better with a 00 unit as this is a better match for your motor if you are keeping things stock for the time being.

Keep at it.  8)

Cheers! Back at work on Tuesday so might lose some momentum but we'll see.

Ah ok, thats interesting. I will keep a look out.

I'm not sure if I put it in the thread yet but I bit the bullet on a zeel setup so I assume that replaces the CDI anyway? Hopefully... :X

Ah, OK, you will be fine with the Zeel then.  (-P) But, yes, the evils of work can get in the way a bit for sure...

The coil isn't necessarily a problem either so long as it's compatible with the 3XV/Zeel ignition (guessing it must be if it was running with it?). Just on observation/heads up really. Your bike must have had a bit of a history with it's unusual collection of bits and pieces. It'll be very satisfying for you to really make it your own with this rebuild I reckon.  (-P)   

This is brilliant info Andy,

You're a step ahead of me for a start, so it's good to be able to follow along.
Firstly, the powder coating looks great. I've got quite a few bits of mine (inc the wheels) painted now, but the paint will chip and scratch much faster than powder coating.

I'm also having issues with bearings which I ordered replacements for the front and rear wheels ages ago from Webike Australia along with some other stuff.
I ordered my sprocket carrier bearing separately which is a 62/22LLU/5K (yours being a 62/22DU and I don't know what the letters mean) but it's a 22 x 50 x 14 so should fit. I'm also struggling to get the disc side spacer out so I'll just copy you.

My replacement front and rear wheel bearings are totally wrong so I'm stumped till I can get replacements - but I'm confused.
There are several posts on here that say the rear wheel bearings are both the same whereas mine are both different, like yours Andy.
Is this differing bearings an SP thing - dissimilar to the R's?

Quote from: Mananon on January 03, 2022, 03:25:00 AM
My replacement front and rear wheel bearings are totally wrong so I'm stumped till I can get replacements - but I'm confused.
There are several posts on here that say the rear wheel bearings are both the same whereas mine are both different, like yours Andy.
Is this differing bearings an SP thing - dissimilar to the R's?

As discussed, R/RS and SP models used different size bearings because the SP models use 'captive' spacers that have to be accommodated within the bearings.

With basic bearing types like those used in the wheel, assuming they are fitting OK it's often easiest to simply knock out the bearings currently fitted, measure them up, and order suitable replacements from a local or online bearing supplier (generally much cheaper too). If you have no bearings fitted, simply measure the bearing housing itself and the spindle (or captive spacer if used).

Codes stamped on the bearings are sometimes generic and sometimes bearing manufacturer specific, so measured sizes can often be more useful when looking for replacements. All 3XV wheel bearings are very common types that are used in a myriad applications though, so are easy to source without paying a hefty premium for that little Yamaha bag. 

After all this time and with bikes that have done the rounds a bit you may even find that you have an R/RS bearing and spacer setup on one side of a wheel and an SP setup on the other just to add to the fun/confusion...  :))  Either way, just measure the bearings removed and look them up by the size if the codes aren't bringing anything up. (-P)

Quote from: Mananon on January 03, 2022, 03:25:00 AM


I'm also having issues with bearings which I ordered replacements for the front and rear wheels ages ago from Webike Australia along with some other stuff.

My replacement front and rear wheel bearings are totally wrong so I'm stumped till I can get replacements - but I'm confused.
There are several posts on here that say the rear wheel bearings are both the same whereas mine are both different, like yours Andy.
Is this differing bearings an SP thing - dissimilar to the R's?

Hi Manon

Webike is in Japan so I'm assuming you mean Wemoto Australia?

My question would be are they definitely 3XV bearings ? On the Wemoto order page there is an icon next to the order qty with a dimensioned sketch to check against your old bearings.

Thanks Warwick and Jools.
Jools, you're quite right - I meant Wemoto. I ordered a number of parts, including the bearing 'kits' and this will now mean more than half of the items supplied by them have been incorrect.
I didn't have the bearings out (or the wheels off) when I ordered them and have only recently checked. There's a bearing place in town so I'm off to see if they have some.
Apologies to Andy for hijacking your thread.

Quote from: Mananon on January 03, 2022, 03:25:00 AM
This is brilliant info Andy,

You're a step ahead of me for a start, so it's good to be able to follow along.
Firstly, the powder coating looks great. I've got quite a few bits of mine (inc the wheels) painted now, but the paint will chip and scratch much faster than powder coating.

I'm also having issues with bearings which I ordered replacements for the front and rear wheels ages ago from Webike Australia along with some other stuff.
I ordered my sprocket carrier bearing separately which is a 62/22LLU/5K (yours being a 62/22DU and I don't know what the letters mean) but it's a 22 x 50 x 14 so should fit. I'm also struggling to get the disc side spacer out so I'll just copy you.

My replacement front and rear wheel bearings are totally wrong so I'm stumped till I can get replacements - but I'm confused.
There are several posts on here that say the rear wheel bearings are both the same whereas mine are both different, like yours Andy.
Is this differing bearings an SP thing - dissimilar to the R's?

Cheers Mananon,

Really glad I'll be able to help others out with my thread. I got so much motivation, help and inspiration from other project threads so it's really nice to hear I'm already paying it forward and on that note, no need for any apologies for 'hijacking'.

Heres the latest!

After Warwicks point about the coils I checked ebay and found a set, with brackets and so decided to go for it. They have now arrived and will require a bit of cleaning but very pleased. The brackets and ofcoure one coil are spare so if anyone is need ever, shout.

(https://i.ibb.co/f0xqKxR/Screenshot-2022-01-02-21-26-02-059-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YjLPKL9)

The rest of my wheel bearings and seals have now arrived along with new rim valves. I'm a bit nervous about the tyre fitting and damaging the powder coating but it's going to have to happen. If I get in the garage tomorrow that might be the next thing to do.

I've not order chain and sprockets yet so open to some suggestions on that. Also need to order some grips. I'm thinking something like this if I can get them in black:

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/466905?glCountry=GB&gclid=Cj0KCQiAieWOBhCYARIsANcOw0whNVbqN86WkGrYXyoZXE69zryQ4yqLnnB9nX2asqnOg22A2MRUHA0aAg9EEALw_wcB


Over the new year weekend I got some more garage time and did a bit more cleaning up of things. I've still not found the right time to test the wet blasting method. The thought of getting drenched and dealing with the hose isn't too appealing in this weather so I decide to stay in the garage with a cup of tea and the fan heater.

I decided to have another crack at the sus linkage but this time with something a bit more abbrasive than the toothbrush. I bought some cheap scourer spongers from tesco and with some brake cleaner and elbow grease this seemed to work quite well.
(https://i.ibb.co/g4WcPD1/IMG-20220101-164057.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tL21xbf)
(https://i.ibb.co/NrGfJz8/IMG-20220101-153306.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xYrwBQp)
(https://i.ibb.co/zRKDfRm/IMG-20220101-151721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xjVd5j2)
(https://i.ibb.co/C1QYsyV/IMG-20220101-153503.jpg) (https://ibb.co/znZBHgP)
(https://i.ibb.co/yW1kvzm/IMG-20220101-153249.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZWPg4QR)
(https://i.ibb.co/KbYfZFk/IMG-20220101-151944.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DzNvX5y)
(https://i.ibb.co/4Yr0r8y/IMG-20220101-153244.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0FbzbCN)

I decided to rebuild the linkage fully as I was happy with the result. The dust seals I ordered turned out to be green as I may have lalready mentioned but I'm fine with that.

(https://i.ibb.co/6NpK8QJ/IMG-20220101-164101.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V3hFx6p)
(https://i.ibb.co/8XmvL8x/IMG-20220101-164052.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BwfW5s6)
(https://i.ibb.co/vk3N2L3/IMG-20220101-164049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qpNHbmN)
(https://i.ibb.co/y8pYFjz/IMG-20220101-160323.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jLzWkXC)

I got the thermostat housing out and took it apart to find it in a terrible state. One of the water pipes that should come away is corroded into place. Luckily one of my impulse purchases in 2020  was a replacement and this was in much better condition. I have tested the thermostat yet but a combination of parts from the old and new mean I'm all good to go.

(https://i.ibb.co/XLSQvFs/IMG-20220101-134406.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h9D6t2W)
(https://i.ibb.co/T87RCtQ/IMG-20220101-133642.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R0sP5cX)
(https://i.ibb.co/sW6yz6V/IMG-20220101-133632.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTmZbmy)
(https://i.ibb.co/QC5zMqP/IMG-20220101-164134.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F0PNzf5)
(https://i.ibb.co/MGBj269/IMG-20220101-164129.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GtH1xTF)
(https://i.ibb.co/cYG5q0L/IMG-20220101-164126.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KNDZmF)
(https://i.ibb.co/F8zqYM1/IMG-20220101-164123.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1RTJX5N)


I gave the headlight a bit of a clean up and noticed that the lens has been scratched up a fair bit. I think it'll be ok so nothing to worry about and may even be able to polish it away in the future if needed.

(https://i.ibb.co/C7q2nwC/IMG-20220101-164229.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QNZd6JS)
(https://i.ibb.co/x5jkNbz/IMG-20220101-164226.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5c80P3s)
(https://i.ibb.co/6gZsHPP/IMG-20220101-164218.jpg) (https://ibb.co/72zynWW)
(https://i.ibb.co/JFw9ZVz/IMG-20220101-164215.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M5xmdrR)

That was all I had time for before I was back to work and thought it would be a while before I had any more time and energy to do more.

I finished my first week of working from home in my new job Friday evening and rather than feeling tired, drained and fed up I was motivated and ready for some garage time.

Initially I thought I would just fit my new swing arm bobbins and maybe do a bit more basic cleaning of things liek airbox, hugger etc. but ended up doing a fair bit.

(https://i.ibb.co/vHprhn4/IMG-20220107-181111.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W6Zd0Jv)
(https://i.ibb.co/pJcNVkh/IMG-20220107-181113.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PwKJXVD)

With the swing arm bobbins on I realised that the only other thing keeping me from getting the frame on the stands was the yoke. I was nervous about fitting that new lower headstock bearing but decided I'd just get on wtih it. The yoke had been in the freezer for the whole week and so i put the new bearing in front of the fan heater to get it warm. Out came the yoke and a quick wipe to remove the frost and some acf50 grease applied to the surface. The bearing slide down and just stopped, no more pushing. I got the old inner race that I'd cut all the way though and pushed it down over the new one and started tapping it on all 4 sides using a socket extension bar pointing straight up along side the stem. This worked well and gradually it moved into place and the old inner race came away easily due to the slit. I know this isnt the right way but it worked, what can i say...

(https://i.ibb.co/cFL7cZV/IMG-20220107-191348.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C72T5YD)
(https://i.ibb.co/yynRm62/IMG-20220107-191351.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xjSsK1Z)

I packed the bearing with loads of grease and started looking at the frame. Something I hadn't thought about was that all the grit used in stripping the frame at the powder coaters was still inside the frame. There was quite a bit rattling around inside the main parts of the frame and lots came out on my fingers as I wiped them around inside the headstock. This getting in the heastock bearings would not be good. I must have spent 30minutes shaking the frame to get it out and lots did come out but I was never going to get it all out. There are 2 holes inside the headstock that go through to the main part of the frame and after some thorough cleaning inside the headstock area I decided to just bung them up with grease and grease all surfaces inside the headstock. I wasn't sure if they were there for airflow to stop corrosion inside the headstock or what but anyway thats what I've done. My logic is that this will always remain higher than the rest of the frame now and so gravity will  prevent any bits of grit coming back up and into the headstock. Once the bike is running and vibrating I'm thinking it will all end up at the lowest point and gradually fall out of the hole there which presumably are at points where moisture will drain out.

The outer races go tapped into the frame using the old ones as a buffer between the new and the hammer. Worked a treat and both got a coating of acf50 grease before they went in.

I also got to use my new bearing grease packer tool on the upper headstock bearing. It certainly filled the bearing with grease internally and the outside was done by hand. I couldnt do this with the out so just applied loads and pressed it in by hand once it was on the stem.

Then I fitted it all to the frame with with the newly powder coated top yoke. I did plan to do some further cleaning of the bottom yoke with the scourer but will see if it bothers me later.

(https://i.ibb.co/M62k6VP/IMG-20220107-195807.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTxQT2C)
(https://i.ibb.co/BPF2hc9/IMG-20220107-195813.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6ZL0Krk)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kx9nt7c/IMG-20220107-195816.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qv60Wn7)
(https://i.ibb.co/cFc61PJ/IMG-20220107-195817.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MVDcsbn)


Rear shock top mount got fitted:

(https://i.ibb.co/2PVxjzR/IMG-20220107-195832.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GkYyVZG)
Frame now ready to go I fitted my new swing arm end caps with the new thrust bearings and washers and fitted the arm to the frame. Turns out I'm missing the swing arm pivot bolt washer so will have to find a suitable replacement.

(https://i.ibb.co/93cbZXc/IMG-20220107-203337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fqm5Hvm)
(https://i.ibb.co/G9SQ94k/IMG-20220107-203342.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JqJjqw2)
(https://i.ibb.co/C14Yp42/IMG-20220107-203345.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0BfcBw)
(https://i.ibb.co/QfFzXxF/IMG-20220107-203356.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zrhjNth)
(https://i.ibb.co/vz2mXYL/IMG-20220107-203409.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F7GJHV8)
(https://i.ibb.co/vvSfrfX/IMG-20220107-203525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PzdJbJD)
(https://i.ibb.co/RHjmBt6/IMG-20220107-203527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vzXGQfd)
(https://i.ibb.co/FnDqTKq/IMG-20220107-204118.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6NWJCmJ)

Next up I fitted the freshly built sus linkage to the frame and swing arm. A quick double check with the local guys on a whatsapp group and a search which turned up Steve's thread about linkage to frame mounting point and I was less confused again by the two different mount points. Turns out the lower/more rear point allow the rear end to sit lower. I also noted that there is alot of side to side movement on the bushing/collar where the linkage meets the swing arm. I vaguely remember reading a post about it but can't find it now. If anyone knows where I can find it or can explain if this is how it is supposed to be please let me know. It seems like its asking for wear and or lots of dirst to get on the collar/bushing.

(https://i.ibb.co/yqLY3Mc/IMG-20220107-205006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YhvyrKF)
(https://i.ibb.co/C05VzwP/IMG-20220107-205009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHpQ9gj)

And the final result for the night was this:

(https://i.ibb.co/zHf6KC9/IMG-20220107-212104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1J2zHBy)
(https://i.ibb.co/Dbxt2tD/IMG-20220107-212054.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0Xgcbcj)

I was very excited to see this and have the bike on stands. It's starting to feel real and much more managable than boxes of bits and bubble wrapped powdercoated parts I was scared to touch.

Great progress Andy. :) (-P)

Just a thought, and I can't see from the images, far easier to fit the chain guide to the swinging arm before its in situ if not too late?

Quote from: thump566 on January 09, 2022, 12:05:48 PM
Great progress Andy. :) (-P)

Just a thought, and I can't see from the images, far easier to fit the chain guide to the swinging arm before its in situ if not too late?

I was thinking about this as I was doing it. I have a good, almost new one but I took it indoors to measure up for someone who was going to try and 3D print some for me but I now do not know where it went over christmas. I'm fully expecting to have to get the swing arm out again before it's fully complete. Cheers for the heads up though.

Just posting a note to remind myself whilst im here in the garage.

Front wheel issues. The front wheel I bought had 6004rs bearings come out. (20 ID x 42 OD x 12)

The spacer that came out is 20 ID x 25 ID x 83mm length

My spindle is defo a 3xv but it has a 17mm od which means the bearings are too big (ID being 20mm).

The OD of the recess in the wheel is defo 42mm so I need bearings that are 17 x 42 x 12.

Found 6203A/42 as the standard 6203 is 40mm. its an odd size. The 3ma spindle must be thicker at 20mm.
6203a/42-2rs with 2 rubber seals

might then need the correct spacer. One i have is wrong although I do seem to have a captive wheel bearing spacer that will step down from 20mm to 17mm.

spacer is same as fzr400rr. (spacer as in outside of rim).

spacer inside wheel will also be needed. also same on fzr400rr.

Will also need to double check speedo drive componenents. should be the same. 

Is it not just an SP wheel/bearing set up?  6004 bearings with captive spacers (hence the need for the 20mm id bearings to accommodate the spacer)?

Compare the SP parts book with an R/RS one to check the differences maybe. It should help you work out what you've got. 

Consider "chasing" all the tapped attachment points on the frame that have been coated, Andy. You can do this just a 6mm & 8mm tap. Go slowly. Use some light cutting oil. The results will make mounting up the brackets, guides and cages so much easier.

Looking good. Glad for your new job.

Steve

Quote from: Warwick on January 10, 2022, 12:30:15 AM
Is it not just an SP wheel/bearing set up?  6004 bearings with captive spacers (hence the need for the 20mm id bearings to accommodate the spacer)?

Compare the SP parts book with an R/RS one to check the differences maybe. It should help you work out what you've got.

I think you might be right you know. I have the speedo drive side spacer but looks like I could be missing the other side. I guess I need to have a proper look through and make sure I havnt put it elsewhere. I didnt have the spr manual but now I've looked that makes so much sense, cheers Warwick!

I guess worse case scenario i can get someone to machine up a collar aslong as I know the spacer gap i need to fill between the bearing and the fork leg.

Quote from: Steveog on January 10, 2022, 01:12:36 AM
Consider "chasing" all the tapped attachment points on the frame that have been coated, Andy. You can do this just a 6mm & 8mm tap. Go slowly. Use some light cutting oil. The results will make mounting up the brackets, guides and cages so much easier.

Looking good. Glad for your new job.

Steve

Good idea Steve I think i'll do that this weekend. I've fitted a few bits now and the threads did take quite a bit of work. I assume its just the powder coat so just went ahead but maybe im missing something?

"chasing" must be another (damn lol) American term....in English run the relevant tap size through each thread on any powder coated parts to make the thread clean for bolts, also add a smidge (damn English term (lol) of copper slip to each thread to help stop them from ceasing when next undoing them.....see short and simple...lmfao

Nice one Jamie but it's seizing not ceasing - one of the few words that doesn't follow the "I before e except after c" rules

9/10 good effort  ;D ;D

However read the following:

Quote from: jamietzr250r on January 11, 2022, 02:01:03 AM
"chasing" must be another (damn lol) American term....in English run the relevant tap size through each thread on any powder coated parts to make the thread clean for bolts, also add a smidge (damn English term (lol) of copper slip to each thread to help stop them from ceasing when next undoing them.....see short and simple...lmfao

Thanks for the translation, Jamie. Yes, you've defined what I meant by using the term "Chasing". Unfortunately, I've had four cylinders fixed or plated or both. The company that did the work (from Pennsylvania, USA) recommended "chasing" the threads of the cylinder's studs (pulling the studs is required before the plating and honing process).

I use a "smidge" of anti-seize compound from Permatex on the bolts. Seems like the results would be the same as applying anti-seize to the threaded hole.

Thanks for the adding the official definition of "chasing", Jools. It makes sense that using special taps to "chase" the threads on a fresh, custom work piece. However, the threads we're talking about were cut at the factory, so using a regular tap seems acceptable. (At least its worked for me) Like I said, "just be careful". I should have added..."and do it by hand to feel the tap engage the existing threads properly."

Your project is looking good, Andy. Just trying to share a technique that saved me a lot of aggravation.

Cheers and "Bob's Your Uncle". (English euphemism, I have yet to understand.)

Steve

Apologies to Andy for butting in, and this wasn't any attack on Jamie either just a bit of light hearted banter.

The term chasing threads took me back to my apprentice days in the early 70's. Having been caught out by the perennial "long weight" and "lefft handed screwdriver" (no google back then) being asked to go get a 1/2" Whitworth thread chaser was met with a resounding "f##k off" by me whereby I was dragged by the ear down to the stores to find they did exist!

:o

(seizing or ceasing) I blame damn auto correct and posting well after my bed time so damn tired.

Anyway everyone knows what it means so get on with it lol....

The I before e is bollocks by the way, QI the UK TV program debunked it....sadly still recited but wrong....

Btw you forgot a...
Tin of elbow grease
Bowl of steam
Adjustable left hand spanner
Sky hook
Etc etc lol

Ok I think I'm back on track. I had been using the fowlers parts manuals which still show the R/RS wheels even under the SPR listing. One thing I'd still like to clarify is if SPR and SP are interchangeable terms for the same bike. The manuals seem to be for the TZR250SPR.

Either way, the part I'm missing is labelled 11 on the SPR front wheel diagram. I've accounted for every other part in this exploded view although now think I might need to order new seals.

(https://i.ibb.co/1K5CXdJ/IMG-20220112-185518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7V53pRN)
(https://i.ibb.co/n3NnMXV/IMG-20220112-185510.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yhcYFzM)

That part is potentially 140 quid if anywhere actually can get one. The only other place it was used was on the FZR760 1989 and spares for those are not easy to get anyway.

Enter a friend who works in engineering and thinks he can get 1 or 2 made up. We've put the spindle in the forks with everything that will go inbetween minus one seal which will be 6mm and measured up and over the next week or so he will see if he can find someone with free time to make one. What a legend!

It's upside down and I cant work out how to rorate without re-uploading. Will sort later but based on the other side the captive part of it has on OD of 20mm to fit snug in the bearing and ID of 17mm to slide over the axle. It's 22mm long so it will go through the 12mm thick bearing and 10mm into the inner spacer than sits between the bearings (matching the one of the other side which I have as it came in the wheel). Part 12 on the diagram which sits between the speedo drive and the bearing and locates inside the the inner spacer also, once it has passed through the bearing. It then steps up to the ID of the oil seal and then one final step up where it will sit against the fork.

The original SP spacer had a groove in the largest "spacery" part of it but I can't see why. If anyone happens to have one they could send photos/measurements of it would be really appreciated.

(https://i.ibb.co/1K5CXdJ/IMG-20220112-185518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7V53pRN)
(https://i.ibb.co/TPNXkTY/IMG-20220111-222902.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HG9vV2B)

Other jobs I've tackled are a clean up of the forks. I've found scourers work really well and my engineering friends confirmed this and suggested some good ones to order. I thought I'd found a nice little trick but turns out its kinda industry standard. I now might look for some scotchbrite wheels for the dremel if thats such a thing. I could spend hours doing that sort of stuff. Hopefully the images show some good comparisons.

(https://i.ibb.co/cFFVw1D/IMG-20220109-161517.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3NNQv7B)
(https://i.ibb.co/2kQnZqh/IMG-20220109-161511.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NyPVTxC)
(https://i.ibb.co/dtTNPTN/IMG-20220109-152456.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cwBW6BW)
(https://i.ibb.co/bHWXbRs/IMG-20220109-152440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LQk1Nhx)
(https://i.ibb.co/FmtsKWs/IMG-20220109-152435.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0m3BcXB)

One job I'd been putting off was tyres. I've bought the tyre machine as mentioned previously but when removing the tyres I still found I was making alot of contact with the rim using the tyre levers/spoons/irons and I was terrified of damaging the powdercoat.

I had bought some used tyres and will still hold on to them but I also was aware that I had a brand new set of tyres in the loft that I had hastily bought many years ago when I had a TZR125RR and was planning to fit a 350 YPVs engine to it. Coincidentally that bike came from the friends who is helping with the spacers. The tyres are from 2013 but have been stored well and google sucggest that they will be fine as long as they havn't been left out in the elements. As the photos show they look good to me.

(https://i.ibb.co/2FJHKYw/IMG-20220109-182441.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NFRbYnX)
(https://i.ibb.co/n8FSrz1/IMG-20220109-182425.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Jk5Ygt)

I don't have tyre paste so did some research on alternatives and WD-40 came out on top. I used this to fit the new valves and then plenty to get the tyre half on. I'm not going to say it was a breeze even with the machine but I am pleased that they are on with no damage to the rims and for the first time of fitting tyres using the machine I'm happy. It will be easier next time. With the rear I had to just keep going round. The opposite side to the bit being "worked on" by the machine did keep slide out as it was followd round but as i kept going I'm thinking the lube wore away and it started having a tougher time slipping off the rim and pop it all went on.

The front was slightly different and I ended up using a G clamp on the oppsoite side to hold that bit that kept popping out...errr...in. This worked a treat and although not inflated and balanced, both tyres are on the rims.

(https://i.ibb.co/wRt62Fx/IMG-20220109-191932.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BtksY5S)
(https://i.ibb.co/3T73FTq/IMG-20220109-184637.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cwzc9wZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cb73D2X/IMG-20220109-184425.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VgSc5mh)

It was nice to lean them up inside the forks/swing arm for this photo!

(https://i.ibb.co/ZY7FXPP/IMG-20220109-204811.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5nwS4yy)

Moving on to bearings I had some more issues. The powder coaters had not masked the bearing surface on the disc side of the rear wheel. A little hastily I got the dremel out with a sanding wheel/spinner thing and basically when to far with a too course wheel. Balls. I stopped and took stock and tried to chip bits away with the small screwdriver which was also not effective and risked damaging the metal. Next a surgical scalpal which could get underneath the powdercoat but would bent rather than break the powdercoating away from the metal. I then decided to try knocking the old bearing back in with a hammer, not caring if i damaged the bearing and hoping it would break away from powder coat. It did and 3 or four sessions of knocking it in and removing it (by knocking out from the other side (none of my blind pullers were the right size without the captive spacering being inside)) meant we had a reasonable surface inside. Although not pictured I used some light sand paper to remove what was left and cleaned up the surface with brake cleaner.

The new bearing then got knocked in using the older one as protection. I know, not ideal but the threaded bar i have is not long enough :(

(https://i.ibb.co/XYLBxX5/IMG-20220111-193054.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FH3v46Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/2dYhm6W/IMG-20220111-193052.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hqp412B)
(https://i.ibb.co/rFJXSxm/IMG-20220111-192504.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gmCcpS3)
(https://i.ibb.co/ySrFw6T/IMG-20220111-192457.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sHZ90KS)

The internal spacer went in and the other side wheel bearing has also gone in. I was about to tackle the hub bearing when my friend turned up about the front so thats where I got to.

I've noticed that my rear has only the captive spacer from one side. I'm forgetting right now which side but I know I only have two and the manual shows 3 as one also sits between the hub and wheel bearing on the sprocket side.

https://en.impex-jp.com/catalogs/moto/yamaha/tzr250/3xvb-1994-bluish-white-cocktail-1-20079/rear-wheel-801054.html

So if all goes well with the front I may ask my friend if we could make up another for the rear.

This is one of the rears I have at the moment that I've been cleaning up.

(https://i.ibb.co/52zw2gN/IMG-20220111-223011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6Xh6L5)
(https://i.ibb.co/gyn2j61/IMG-20220111-223001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tBdGm3f)


I have also notice that my Left hand handle bar is a bit bent and damaged on the end so might be on the look out for a replacment. The eagle eyed will also notce the oil tank has been put into place and the hugger has been given a clean and put into place. I'm remember now as i type this that one of the captive threads in the swing arm (for the hugger on brake caliper side) is loose and so I can't tighten the bolt. Anyone have any ideas if these can be removed and replaced?

Any unwanted powder-coating can be eased off with HD paint remover, Andy...(Thanks to Karel for that tip). Just mask off the area to save, paint it on with a "throw away" brush, wait a couple of hours, then wipe it off. Any remaining coating can easily be taken off with a course grade "Scotch-Brite" pads or a small pocket knife (or similar device) as seen in the picture.

Looks like your Dremel took care of the inner bearing surface. You may want to try the paint remover trick if you encounter more extra coating.

Good Luck

Steve

Hi Andy,

We're again sharing some similar frustrations. Just remember as you read that my chassis is an SP.
Below is a photo of my front spindle/axle viewed as if you were stood in front of the bike.
Obviously the main spindle is in the middle.
On the left (in a packet) is a new cir-clip.
Then there's a new seal for that side of the wheel. This part is completely wrong (even though the part number is correct) as it's quite a few mm bigger than the old one and there's no way it'd fit.
The bearing (item 2), the spacer (item 4) and the other side bearing (item 3) are in the wheel so aren't shown in this photo.
Then (fitted on the spindle) there's item 12 which the parts book calls Collar, Wheel.
Then upper right of photo there's a new seal for the speedo side, then the speedo drive, then a new washer and the old castle nut. I note I ordered a new castle nut but Megazip haven't sent it. I'm finding that a number of other parts I ordered (and was charged for) are also missing. Some parts look right and fit right but are different (presumable compatible) part number. 

I note that I'm missing item 5 (Clutch Meter 341-25149) and item 6 (Clutch Retainer 341-25846).

Anyway, I reckon item 12 is in the speedo drive (not sure if this can be taken apart). With the seal fitted to that side of the wheel (with an imaginary clutch meter and retainer that I don't have) there'd be no room for another bush. From the outer face of the wheel it's about 14mm in to the bearing face and the speedo drive protrudes into that space about 12.5mm - so I'm thinking that couple of mil is taken up by my imaginary parts.

I don't see why item 11 looks as shown in the parts book. My spacer (in the wheel between the bearings) is only fractionally bigger (ID) than the bearings to give a tad of room for grease. The axle is a snug friction fit through both bearings so no room for a 'captive' bush.  See photo below with disc loosely mounted. The old seal is to one side to give an idea of how big the spacer/bush could be - which is exactly as big as the bush mounted on my axle. Does yours not look like this?

I'm also stumped as to how the speedo side stuff goes together. I suspect that the drawing is s a bit misleading. It makes it look like the item 12 bush sits against the face of the inner race of the bearing and that the other stuff is fitted after, on top of the bush, which can't be right.
I reckon that after fitting the bearing it should be parts 5, 6, 7 and then the bush and then the speedo drive is at the lower right side of photo.
If you go through putting that bit together I'd greatly appreciate a photo - especially how my missing parts should be fitted - thoug I note I haven't been through the workshop manual yet.
Items 5 and 6 I'll have to live without till I've moved house in a month or so. I don't think anywhere in NZ will have these and stuff ordered from overseas is taking ages - most recently a CMS order arrived with Fedex having taken 10 weeks! - so I'll have moved long before they get here.

Also in the first photo are Scotch-Bright wheels (or buffs if you prefer) to go in the drill (and some pads) that are good for cleaning stuff up. Scotch-Brite comes in different grades of roughness, usually green, grey and red, though different makers of similar products use different colours.
For degreasing/cleaning I get a product called Supa-rip (made by Pacer) which is a concentrate (mix with water) alkaline product. Regardless of brand, the alkaline stuff is brilliant stuff. Degreaser always works best when warm (about 30c) so don't be shy of putting a jar or bowl full in the microwave before dropping some bits in to soak.

Those tyres will be fine Andy. They're good for ages if left out of the sun with no weight on them to deform the shape. What sort of Michelins are they? I'm trying to get Alpha 14's or Pirelli Supercorsa SP V3's but I'm waiting for a call-back from a supplier to see if he can find stock in NZ.

You should give the powder coating place a bollocking. They should know full well that bearing and mating surfaces should be masked off.  At least the disk mount bolt points are clean - and how hard it is to get off shows how hard wearing it is.

EDIT
PS Andy, and with reference to your post on the previous page, those Renthal grips are the same as the ones I was thinking of getting. Both of my hadlebars, whilst not bent, have big lumps ground off, so I got some second handers which only had tiny scuffs on the end and I've pretty much polished those out.
I had ordered a chain and sprockets form an NZ supplier but they've since come back to me and said 'Out of Stock'. Webike Japan have Sunstar sets (https://japan.webike.net/bm/pl/Sprocket+Chain+Set/1580/p.m=13571&p.b=732/) with the hard Aluminium rear sprockets but the postage will again be super slow. I've read that TZ250 sprockets are the same pattern but need the mounting holes drilled out from 8mm to 10mm.

Hi Manon

it is possible to pull the speedo drive apart - there is a large circlip which holds the drive clutch in place (marries up to the drive dogs in the wheel- also removable).

On my bike, when I was prepping it for racing some years ago, I took the guts out of the speedo drive before I later had stainless top hat spacer made to replace the speedo drive casting.

As I've mentioned a few times, R/RS and SP wheel setups are different in terms of bearings, seals, spacers etc.

Mananon. It looks like you have effectively an R/RS front wheel setup in your 'SP', so you need to to be referring to an R/RS parts book for the wheel parts and layout, while Andy has an SP wheel set up in his 'R', so needs to refer to the SP parts manuals for his. 

Full manual links are here: http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/3XV/index.php Much better to refer to these than the generic ones used on parts seller sites.

I think you should both be able to make things work OK with the right combination of parts, but if you were closer geographically it would probably make sense to swap wheels to keep things simple.  (-P)   

Quote from: Steveog on January 13, 2022, 12:55:19 AM
Any unwanted powder-coating can be eased off with HD paint remover, Andy...(Thanks to Karel for that tip). Just mask off the area to save, paint it on with a "throw away" brush, wait a couple of hours, then wipe it off. Any remaining coating can easily be taken off with a course grade "Scotch-Brite" pads or a small pocket knife (or similar device) as seen in the picture.

Looks like your Dremel took care of the inner bearing surface. You may want to try the paint remover trick if you encounter more extra coating.

Good Luck

Steve

Ah that's good to know if I find any more thanks. Might get some on order for when that arises.

Quote from: Mananon on January 13, 2022, 02:41:19 AM
Hi Andy,

We're again sharing some similar frustrations. Just remember as you read that my chassis is an SP.
Below is a photo of my front spindle/axle viewed as if you were stood in front of the bike.
Obviously the main spindle is in the middle.
On the left (in a packet) is a new cir-clip.
Then there's a new seal for that side of the wheel. This part is completely wrong (even though the part number is correct) as it's quite a few mm bigger than the old one and there's no way it'd fit.
The bearing (item 2), the spacer (item 4) and the other side bearing (item 3) are in the wheel so aren't shown in this photo.
Then (fitted on the spindle) there's item 12 which the parts book calls Collar, Wheel.
Then upper right of photo there's a new seal for the speedo side, then the speedo drive, then a new washer and the old castle nut. I note I ordered a new castle nut but Megazip haven't sent it. I'm finding that a number of other parts I ordered (and was charged for) are also missing. Some parts look right and fit right but are different (presumable compatible) part number. 

I note that I'm missing item 5 (Clutch Meter 341-25149) and item 6 (Clutch Retainer 341-25846).

Anyway, I reckon item 12 is in the speedo drive (not sure if this can be taken apart). With the seal fitted to that side of the wheel (with an imaginary clutch meter and retainer that I don't have) there'd be no room for another bush. From the outer face of the wheel it's about 14mm in to the bearing face and the speedo drive protrudes into that space about 12.5mm - so I'm thinking that couple of mil is taken up by my imaginary parts.

I don't see why item 11 looks as shown in the parts book. My spacer (in the wheel between the bearings) is only fractionally bigger (ID) than the bearings to give a tad of room for grease. The axle is a snug friction fit through both bearings so no room for a 'captive' bush.  See photo below with disc loosely mounted. The old seal is to one side to give an idea of how big the spacer/bush could be - which is exactly as big as the bush mounted on my axle. Does yours not look like this?

I'm also stumped as to how the speedo side stuff goes together. I suspect that the drawing is s a bit misleading. It makes it look like the item 12 bush sits against the face of the inner race of the bearing and that the other stuff is fitted after, on top of the bush, which can't be right.
I reckon that after fitting the bearing it should be parts 5, 6, 7 and then the bush and then the speedo drive is at the lower right side of photo.
If you go through putting that bit together I'd greatly appreciate a photo - especially how my missing parts should be fitted - thoug I note I haven't been through the workshop manual yet.
Items 5 and 6 I'll have to live without till I've moved house in a month or so. I don't think anywhere in NZ will have these and stuff ordered from overseas is taking ages - most recently a CMS order arrived with Fedex having taken 10 weeks! - so I'll have moved long before they get here.

Also in the first photo are Scotch-Bright wheels (or buffs if you prefer) to go in the drill (and some pads) that are good for cleaning stuff up. Scotch-Brite comes in different grades of roughness, usually green, grey and red, though different makers of similar products use different colours.
For degreasing/cleaning I get a product called Supa-rip (made by Pacer) which is a concentrate (mix with water) alkaline product. Regardless of brand, the alkaline stuff is brilliant stuff. Degreaser always works best when warm (about 30c) so don't be shy of putting a jar or bowl full in the microwave before dropping some bits in to soak.

Those tyres will be fine Andy. They're good for ages if left out of the sun with no weight on them to deform the shape. What sort of Michelins are they? I'm trying to get Alpha 14's or Pirelli Supercorsa SP V3's but I'm waiting for a call-back from a supplier to see if he can find stock in NZ.

You should give the powder coating place a bollocking. They should know full well that bearing and mating surfaces should be masked off.  At least the disk mount bolt points are clean - and how hard it is to get off shows how hard wearing it is.

EDIT
PS Andy, and with reference to your post on the previous page, those Renthal grips are the same as the ones I was thinking of getting. Both of my hadlebars, whilst not bent, have big lumps ground off, so I got some second handers which only had tiny scuffs on the end and I've pretty much polished those out.
I had ordered a chain and sprockets form an NZ supplier but they've since come back to me and said 'Out of Stock'. Webike Japan have Sunstar sets (https://japan.webike.net/bm/pl/Sprocket+Chain+Set/1580/p.m=13571&p.b=732/) with the hard Aluminium rear sprockets but the postage will again be super slow. I've read that TZ250 sprockets are the same pattern but need the mounting holes drilled out from 8mm to 10mm.

Yup you have an R / RS by my workings out too. One major difference I noted also was the shape of the internal spacer between the bearings. on the SP it is just like a section of pipe where as ont he R / RS it is more like the rear where the ends are sort of flared on the outers.

You're bearings are 40mm OD too I'd assume. How funny (annoying) that we've both had the opposite experience as Warwick points out.

I bought new clutch meter and retainer on ebay. They are used on many bikes to plenty around. I do now have a spare 2nd hand Clutch meter but I'm guessing you'll get one more local, cheaper.

Interesting your point about the lack of space for the spacer. I wonder if on the sp the bearing recess is deeper. My R / RS wheel I hastily ordered through Sendico arrived today from Japan so I can have a look at that soon.

thanks for the info on the wheels, they look very good. I'm excited to get some now and go to town! (Very sad i know!)

Also for the reasurance on the tyres. I was hoping no one would come back and say, DO NOT USE THEM YOU WILL DIE but ready for it regardless.

I still need to order the grips but also need to make a decision on the bars first. In some googling of part numbers I found this Greek bike breaks with some bars which might be an option if nothing more local is available.

I hadn't expected any issue in ordering chain and sprockets, seems to be lots of options on ebay.Am I not considering that the SP sprocket hub is different from the R?

Quote from: jools on January 13, 2022, 09:17:03 AM
Hi Manon

it is possible to pull the speedo drive apart - there is a large circlip which holds the drive clutch in place (marries up to the drive dogs in the wheel- also removable).

On my bike, when I was prepping it for racing some years ago, I took the guts out of the speedo drive before I later had stainless top hat spacer made to replace the speedo drive casting.

The speed drive does certainly come apart. My one is from some 4DL 125 spares I had and I think its the same part. It was a mess so i stripped it down and cleaned it up and its now sitting full of grease but could do with an outer paint. However none of the parts you see in the exploded are from inside. They most definetly are accoutned for. Before I rebuild mine I will try to remember to take a photo of it all laid out like Mananon has and label them all as per the exploded diagram of the SP.

Quote from: Warwick on January 13, 2022, 11:48:38 AM
As I've mentioned a few times, R/RS and SP wheel setups are different in terms of bearings, seals, spacers etc.

Mananon. It looks like you have effectively an R/RS front wheel setup in your 'SP', so you need to to be referring to an R/RS parts book for the wheel parts and layout, while Andy has an SP wheel set up in his 'R', so needs to refer to the SP parts manuals for his. 

Full manual links are here: http://pure2strokespirit.net/redandblueftp/download/3XV/index.php Much better to refer to these than the generic ones used on parts seller sites.

I think you should both be able to make things work OK with the right combination of parts, but if you were closer geographically it would probably make sense to swap wheels to keep things simple.  (-P)   

Thanks again Warwick and good thought on the swap but shame about the distance.

Thanks again Warwick and good thought on the swap but shame about the distance.
[/quote]

Seconded. Many thanks Warwick and Jools, and to you Andy.

I've obviously been too confident that my entire rolling chassis is SP with only the engine being an R model. Now I look at the parts manual for the R, things make more sense.
Andy, yes, my front bearings are 6203's which are 40mm O/D. Fortunately the seals are extremely common, so I should be able to get one locally. I'll try the Yamaha dealers for the speedo clutch and retainer but, despite them being common to a very large rage of bikes, I don't hold out much hope. With only 5 million people in NZ demand isn't high and so very little stock is held - and what there is tends to be only for the most common bikes, which in NZ is usually motocrossers. Supply-chain is dire here at the moment. Most small shipments would usually come on passenger aircraft and our borders are defectively still closed (hence no omicron here and very little delta) so there are bugger all flights. Fingers crossed though.

Hi Manon,

I may still have the clutch and retainer you can have for the price of postage (I'm in Australia) let me have a look.

Jools

That would be great Jools, if you have them.
I popped into the Yamaha dealer earlier and there is neither part in the country.

Wow, it's a been a long time since I last posted on here. I've not had a PC in the garage and started a full time job in a new career (web development) in Jan 2022 so time became very limited and as I'm working from home and desk based I guess I stopped spending the evenings on the computer as well. I've been keeping the South Coast chapter updated/bored with lots of photos and long messages with queries and demands  ;D.

I also had a lock up on my RD350 F2 towards the end of autumn last year and so funds and time had to go into getting that rebuilt, which is now up for sale.

I also... had to start commuting to Oxford more regularly (from Worthing, West Sussex) and so so my DRZ400S got re-commissioned which resulted in a 2 week battle with a stuck swing arm pivot bolt.

So where are we at with the TZR?

The previous photo of what looked like a rolling chassis was just with the wheels propped up between. Last year after fitting the bearings I was then able to get it to a proper rolling chassis point and that was a great feeling. That was all prior to the RD engine issues and DRZ stuff.

(https://i.ibb.co/TkWG7cK/IMG-20230611-WA0006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vHXWT1s)

I resolved all my wheel bearing issues and ordered everything up and fitted. I recorded a couple of short videos on the rear hub setup. Primarly for myself in the future but I do plan on whacking it on youtube when I get a mo.

I did somehow order the wrong oil seal for the hub still so that is now on order. It should have been a 50 30 6 and I got a 47mm OD somehow.

Fast forward to a few weeks back when the RD was ready for sale and the DRZ was useable and reliable and I decided to start a dry-run build of the TZR. The idea was to work out what was missing, find any threads that needed cleaning/repairing and get a general idea of how the bike goes together.

The reason for this is so that when the engine comes out and gets rebuilt, I don't want it to be sitting waiting on other parts. My garage time is generally very limited with gaps in between and I want it all to be fresh in my mind.

It's been going well and here is where I'm at and what I've learnt.


Bars

I managed to find a second hand set of straight bars and so they are now no longer a concern.

Forks

These still need rebuilding. Thanks to SouthCoastrich who found a supplier for the correct sizes and even sent me a pair FOC IIRC! I now have a set of bushes/sliders and so can rebuild them. The lowers will likely get a lick/spray of paint. I'm fairly close to the intended rider size/weight so will stick with stock springs and so am hoping they are in servicable spec.

Chain slider / Frame protector

I had a friend who was going to 3D print me one of the frame protector sliders from the designs that {insert name, I forgot} posted up. Unfortunately he changed jobs and lost access to the machine. I will pursue this further soon.

I have a good Swing arm pivot protection slider that I can use. I was hoping to get it 3D scanned for re-production purposes but might have to just go ahead and use it.

Engine

I have a set of Wossner pistons thanks to Jim.
I have an SP crank from webbs.
There seems to be a few options for full gaskets sets at the moment so might buy a full set and inspect the quality of the head gaskets. The astronomical prices of OEM really wind me up.
My cases have damaged around the gear change shaft. It's been repaired, badly and I assumed cases were rare and expensive but when a set came up on ebay for a reasonable price from Suzuki Race I made contact and they are now in my garage (still in the box waiting to be opened).
Once the engine is back out, I'll strip and get the cases etc aqua blasted.
I don't intend to do any tuning work to the engine at this point. I'm running stock pipes so why bother?
It'll be all bearings and seals and a good inspection.
This is the biggest job remaining I think.

(https://i.ibb.co/9w3mNjW/IMG-20230623-173210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M85ysL7)


Carbs

I've ordered a set of inner gaskets (I had  a feeling I bought some from gasket guru before he shut down but can't find them).
I've ordered the needlevalve sets.
I've got an US cleaner so I'll strip them and give them an inital bath today. Hopefully the needles themselves are good as I see they are NLA.
I'll be running stock pipes for now but will have the zeel so I think I should be okay with stock jetting. Any thoughts?

Cooling System

Some time back one of the guys(Unsure if he's on the forum and only know by his real name) who joined our Southcoast whats app group and met at loomies at the infamous 5x 3XVs together meet (it's still talked about amongst Loomies goers), sold me a very reasonably priced radiator when I found that mine was likely an RGV250 rad (now for sale on ebay at a silly price but if you want, message me for a deal).

I was worried I'd have a nightmare with mounting points and for some reason I thought there was some kind of intermediary bracket between the rad and the frame so was pleasantly suprised to find that I had all the grommets and collars needed (or as close to be good enough) in takeway pots of old bolts etc.

I did find that my left hand side frame mounting point was missing the stud so I've used a bolt for now. Unsure why a stud is used, any light on that one experts? I will find a stud and domed nut in my takeaway pots for the full build and might even stretch to buying gen yam ones if I'm feeling rich at that point.

I'm missing a rad cap but looks like many will fit so I'll grab one from my spares boxes for now.

My lower cylinder coolant stub had the same consistency of a Danish pastry. Fortunatley Bulldogboy had just had a joblot of bits arrive from Japan and had a couple of spares which myself and Thump managed to get our names on (reminds me that I've not paid yet  ::))

I had obviously ordered a spare thermostat housing at some point which has been blasted so that'll need a strip down, clean and maybe some kind of coating to protect it? I think the coolant stub that faces forward is supposed to be black, so I'll likely paint that when I do the forks.

I also found during this that I'm missing the cable guide that fits to the upper left rad mount. Longer story on this in the 3XV section of the forum and a wanted post in the....wanted section suprisingly.

(https://i.ibb.co/C2mX3cX/IMG-20230619-WA0013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FVmfLrf)

(https://i.ibb.co/5hcZ0Vz/IMG-20230619-231247.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YBjgCGK)

Brakes

I think I've already mentioned but I got my calipers rebuild and painted by Powerhouse (Fantastic job) so they are just waiting to go on.
After some complications with lengths I've got the right braided hoses now.
I had all the hose guides powder coated in the same as the frame and wheels (rivet counters and purists look away). They look good to me but what I didn't realise was that I was missing one of the rear brake line clamps (the smallest on thats 3rd from the caliper end). During a visit to Thumps house (on the way home from the Flitwick Motorcycles 2 stroke day) he kindly gave his only spare. I fitted it and then when going through the big bag of OEM bolts/nuts that I ordered right at the start of this build, I found an NOS one! I had completely forgotten. So Thumps can be returned the next time we meet at loomies which is hopefully in the next few weeks.

(https://i.ibb.co/VB2sL4j/IMG-20230630-WA0012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bdzk69W)

(https://i.ibb.co/mRkCHdZ/IMG-20230630-WA0002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p1cv3NV)

(https://i.ibb.co/bFb4Qy8/IMG-20230621-WA0024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gd40mXB)

(https://i.ibb.co/K2VDFzd/IMG-20230621-WA0032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/StVcR7b)

(https://i.ibb.co/sFNQcBw/IMG-20230621-WA0030.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fCytZcp)

I had all of the front hose guides and those are fitted now.

The front master cylinder was poweder coated in the same colour. I rebuilt it with the kit I found online but was not aware I was missing the lever pivot bolt. Sourced one using the part number from an XJR spares website. I fitted the resevoir and straightened out the "bent" mounting bracket before realising it's intended to be bent to keep the res level. What a donut.
I also noticed that my master cylinder clamp has a mirror mount so is clearly wrong. I have the same issue (and more) for the clutch perch but more on that later on.

(https://i.ibb.co/k3cgF8Z/IMG-20230630-115924.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tZCM5sR)

The rear master cylinder had the same treatment but it yet to be fitted.

I also sourced a set of used front discs/rotors which are now fitted with new loctited bolts.

The rear disc still needs to be fitted.

Headlight / Clocks and cowling

These have all been fitted, I had to pursuade the bracket to be the right shape but this was possible and seems all good. I had ordered some of the right grommets and collars and the rest came from my takeaway pots.

(https://i.ibb.co/yB5tSRt/IMG-20230630-115040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HpY6d26)

(https://i.ibb.co/ysrNrww/IMG-20230630-115909.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ggxrx55)

(https://i.ibb.co/qFkfdRT/IMG-20230630-120215.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prJ8x3Y)

I'm thinking I'll order the clock face stickers from ebay to convert to mph. Does anyone know if this mean I don't need a mechanical converter? I guess I'll find out when they turn up.

Last thing I did last night was fit the front cowling. That was exciting for me and relieving that it fit right. Thanks again to the southcoast guys who guided me through working out that I did not need collars through the grommmets as the stubs on the fairing take up that space. Non oem nuts used at Bulldogboys disgust  ;D. Again, I might replace these later.

(https://i.ibb.co/dDk4Q27/IMG-20230630-201545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M7PkRV9)

(https://i.ibb.co/G5dm4JD/IMG-20230630-201456.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d5fZwcv)

Indicators

Mine came without but I'm not a BMW driver so I will need these. I found some FZR250 ones that were all busted up but gave me a basis to start from. I've found some chinese copies on ebay so am gonna give them a chance.

Rear light and mudguard

Dry run fitting of these went well. I've got some neoprene foam (again supplied FOC by thump) to make up the padding L shape thing that goes in there somewhere.
My original light unit was damaged so I found one from a 4FL 125.


Misc

I've fitted the side stand, footpegs with levers, coils, fairing brackets, oil tank, coolant expansinon bottle, rear brake light switch and front chain guard.
The rear chain guard I also left in the bag of stuff to get powder coated so that is now black too (Purists are blowing a fuse now eh!). I actually like it.
Switch gears have gone on but will need some TLC.
My clutch lever is wrong for sure but will do for now. I've found that the TZ125, early YZ125 and IT175 used the same perch etc so will source one at some point.

(https://i.ibb.co/yqpwJKW/IMG-20230630-161509.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4p26xCP)

(https://i.ibb.co/qncW803/IMG-20230630-161518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cvZC9bS)

(https://i.ibb.co/pv96NMX/IMG-20230630-173513.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BVSHvQs)

(https://i.ibb.co/Lr5qV6N/IMG-20230630-173507.jpg) (https://ibb.co/68BpjbX)

Fuel tank and tap

Following more advice I'm ordering the RGV250 tap (FPC-320) and some 8mm and 10mm fuel lines. I'll need to get a T piece to connect it all up still.
My tank is in poor cosmetic condition and has been welded up on the underside. I'm hoping this means that it's been treated well since and I know it has a very oily petrol/2stroke mix in which is being swirled regularly. I have a tank cover that I got on ebay so I'll be using that for the time being.

Conclusion

So that's where I'm at for now. I've got another free day today so will hopefuly make a load more progress.
I've got a nice ebay basket of bits to buy and a couple of OEM bits too (only because there's no option, not to please anyone  ;)).

I was able to taken Thumps for a spin whilst we were at Flitwick motorcycles. Thanks mate, that was hugely appreciated! It was my first actual ride on a 3XV and it met my expectations and some. That's probably the main reason I've managed to find garage time this week. I'm now highly motivated!  ;D

I'll try to not neglect this thread moving forward too!

(https://i.ibb.co/H4x5Rbr/IMG-20230630-201600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V9Qfbzv)

(https://i.ibb.co/dDk4Q27/IMG-20230630-201545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M7PkRV9)

(https://i.ibb.co/RzsQhty/IMG-20230630-201614.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BqQT4vN)

(https://i.ibb.co/r7rymCz/IMG-20230630-173440.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kHCcxRw)

Quote from: AndyYam on July 01, 2023, 11:00:50 AM
Some time back one of the guys(Unsure if he's on the forum and only know by his real name) who joined our Southcoast whats app group and met at loomies at the infamous 5x 3XVs together meet (it's still talked about amongst Loomies goers)

Great progress Andy! I know it's been a slow burn, but everything is going together correctly and methodically. The number of times I've had to take mine apart again and again because of "one more issue uncovered" is fate I'm sure you'll be avoiding with this approach!

This'll be a great bike  (-P)

Let's see it @ Loomies  :D

Cheers Rich. Yours is certainly making you work for it but it will all be worth it when we do make it to a loomies meet with atleast all 6 of us on 3XVs. Pain is temporary, glory lasts forever 😁.

I put the remainder of my fairings on yesterday and ended up taking lots of photos and starting at the bike. It's been 5 years now, since I bought it I think.

(https://i.ibb.co/G2xyH93/IMG-20230701-164011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/swmnWCJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/4FZWPTr/IMG-20230701-163959.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8mDM65Z)
(https://i.ibb.co/WtN6qj8/IMG-20230701-164011-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TLDkpdj)
(https://i.ibb.co/tmKZ7bS/IMG-20230701-170821.jpg) (https://ibb.co/znx8yS1)

Looking good Andy  (-P)

Agreed its taken a while but sometimes better not to rush it and to do things properly first time.
On the down side ,its likely going to be another 3XV I wont be able to park next to for fear of making mine look tatty  :))
Looking forward to the next stage   :)

What a post!!!!
Amazing work dude I'm so pleased for you.
Tatty no used lol, I think mines the tattiest but is ridden so who cares.....
Now you've ridden one you've got the bug finally..... motivation is hard but very very well done.....

Quote from: thump566 on July 02, 2023, 12:07:05 PM
Looking good Andy  (-P)

Agreed its taken a while but sometimes better not to rush it and to do things properly first time.
On the down side ,its likely going to be another 3XV I wont be able to park next to for fear of making mine look tatty  :))
Looking forward to the next stage   :)

Haha I very much doubt that and hope not! Photos make it look nice. If you zoom and look at the fairings, you'll see they are/were coverered in mould and have plenty of cranks and marks and (minus the mould) will probably stay like that.

Quote from: jamietzr250r on July 02, 2023, 01:37:59 PM
What a post!!!!
Amazing work dude I'm so pleased for you.
Tatty no used lol, I think mines the tattiest but is ridden so who cares.....
Now you've ridden one you've got the bug finally..... motivation is hard but very very well done.....

Cheers Jamie,

feels like a bloody age since we met at loomies. No chance of you getting on whatsapp anytime soon? So much convo happens there and it would be great to have you on there.

Spot on mate, As I was starting from nothing (the original jigsaw puzzle) it made sense to send all off to the powdercoaters so to be fair a lot is in great condition now. It's not the right colour etc but if I don't enjoy riding it because of a 1% colour diff then frankly I shouldn't be on the bike.

Yeah well and truly bitten by that bug. The motivation has always been there I think it's been lack of confidence that I would ever complete it and something always seems to get in the way. The latest is that last night our Car blew it's head gasket. We don't have another so I've now got to spend the time to repair that instead of TZR time....but hey, that's a surmountable obstacle to overcome compared to the mental health and career problems that have put this on the back burner so many times before so 'bring it on' I say.

Photos will follow but some goodies have been turning up over the last few days:

• Carb body inner gaskets
• Fuel lines
• RGV fuel tap
• Needle valve sets
• A few grommets and collars
• Exhaust bungs
• The correct read hub oil seal

I also bought a bunch of collars, grommets and bolts etc on ebay from what looks like a breakers. I'm sure some will be useful and others might be good to have as spares and if anyone doing projects on here needs them.

I'm going to order the clock face mph sticker kit too

If you can get one of those kph to mph converters for the speedo. They also effectively disable the speed limiter in the stock cdi. More expensive than the sticker but work better.

Quote from: SeaR1ck on July 06, 2023, 12:00:33 AM
If you can get one of those kph to mph converters for the speedo. They also effectively disable the speed limiter in the stock cdi. More expensive than the sticker but work better.

Think Andy has a Zeel, which should achieve the same thing?

QuoteNo chance of you getting on whatsapp anytime soon? So much convo happens there and it would be great to have you on there.

Lol I'm just a simple old man who absolutely hates the www, internet whatever. To me it's an invasion of privacy, having my details plastered all over the net. I try to keep my personal stuff personal. I don't do any kind of social media with the exceptions of Signal (which is a far better app than what's app), playstation and here. I flatly refuse to be associated with Meta, jumped up litte ginger cunt (sorry).
I know I'm missing out but if you really need to contact me, some of the guys have my mob number.

Just saying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_people_with_red_hair

Lmfao, thanks mellorp
If you read my post it's a dig at ONE single person not all of them.......

Quote from: thump566 on July 06, 2023, 12:07:17 AM

Quote from: SeaR1ck on July 06, 2023, 12:00:33 AM
If you can get one of those kph to mph converters for the speedo. They also effectively disable the speed limiter in the stock cdi. More expensive than the sticker but work better.

Think Andy has a Zeel, which should achieve the same thing?

Correct. I like the idea of actually seeing mph written on the clocks too. I had a gearbox converter on my DT125RE though and it worked a treat.

Quote from: jamietzr250r on July 07, 2023, 10:47:09 AM

QuoteNo chance of you getting on whatsapp anytime soon? So much convo happens there and it would be great to have you on there.

Lol I'm just a simple old man who absolutely hates the www, internet whatever. To me it's an invasion of privacy, having my details plastered all over the net. I try to keep my personal stuff personal. I don't do any kind of social media with the exceptions of Signal (which is a far better app than what's app), playstation and here. I flatly refuse to be associated with Meta, jumped up litte ginger cunt (sorry).
I know I'm missing out but if you really need to contact me, some of the guys have my mob number.

In that case you should be aware that this forum does not have an SSL certificate. What that means is that technically someone could jump in the middle and grab any details you've put in to this site. That includes your password so just make sure you don't use the password you use here, anywhere else. I'll put a message up about getting it fixed. I shudder ever time i log in tbh.

I'll grab your number tomorrow at boxhill then and download signal.  (-P)

I've been moaning about the certificate for ages even started a thread about it, but there are other ways to protect oneself from the ether lol

Quote from: jamietzr250r on August 19, 2023, 01:50:18 PM
I've been moaning about the certificate for ages even started a thread about it, but there are other ways to protect oneself from the ether lol

Yep, it's on the to do list, likely to coincide with a big upgrade to the next version of the forum software. Enabling the SSL on the site has some implications, ie it will break all the externally hosted images in all threads. The workaround is an add-on that downloads all the images and hosts it on the server but that will likely bust my allowed storage quota which means more hosting costs... So yeah, some testing to do beforehand but I will get round to it  (-P)

Quote from: ybk on August 20, 2023, 02:58:03 AM

Quote from: jamietzr250r on August 19, 2023, 01:50:18 PM
I've been moaning about the certificate for ages even started a thread about it, but there are other ways to protect oneself from the ether lol

Yep, it's on the to do list, likely to coincide with a big upgrade to the next version of the forum software. Enabling the SSL on the site has some implications, ie it will break all the externally hosted images in all threads. The workaround is an add-on that downloads all the images and hosts it on the server but that will likely bust my allowed storage quota which means more hosting costs... So yeah, some testing to do beforehand but I will get round to it  (-P)

Awesome, good to know it's on the list. I'm a php web dev if you want any help.

Indications from your post is you've had it running? Can you confirm!!?

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on March 23, 2024, 02:29:19 AM
Indications from your post is you've had it running? Can you confirm!!?

?:-| :o

Me? Which post is this?

No certainly a way off a running state but I should update this thread with the latest progress.

Another depressingly long gap between posts. Things have been happening, slowly!

Excuses this time, followed by resolutions:

Lack of available finances  -> RD350 has now sold and gone to Canada!
Car broke and spent every weekend trying to fix -> Car has been sold for spares.
Got into Airsoft -> This isn't going away but we'll strike a balance as this will only be once a month max!
My garage is cold in the winter -> It is no longer Winter.
There have been no SouthCoast meetups to make me feel lonely -> These are likely to happen again soon.

Engine and gearbox
My replacement cases arrived and I've stripped my current engine now.

Both heads had some signs of damage but one was far worse and so I decided to check stock levels at Gav's of Berkshire  ;). The parts guy there had a few in stock and so he hand selected me the best one and it arrived a couple of days later. Thanks Gav, much appreciated!

I've taken my cases, cylinders, heads, clutch cover, water pump cover and powervalve end caps off to Chris at Mid Sussex Vapour Blasting and he reckons in about 2 weeks I'll have them back. I'm a tad excited about that.

(https://i.ibb.co/y55Z9Y8/IMG-20240329-154016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QnnTgC6)
(https://i.ibb.co/xY145cz/IMG-20240310-121526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MfcXNjP)
(https://i.ibb.co/89Pm8W8/IMG-20240309-WA0031.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fHrX0h0)


I chewed a few of the bearing retaining heads along the way. I was using Acetone/ATF, heat and a set of JIS screwdrivers and a proper impact driver but they were still being naughty. I've got an order with Andy at Webbs about to go in so have added the extras to that.

The bores seem ok to me. I'll get some photos up but wondering what would be the criteria for requiring a re-plate? I'll be fitting a set of Wossners from Jim's group buy.

No photos of the cylinder condition interestingly. Guess I was too busy looking with my eyes.

The powervalves have now had a good clean. One looks like it might have been modded slightly, is that just me? The bushes on the end which I understand have an o-ring behind would not come off so are staying like that.

(https://i.ibb.co/s1J6cRL/IMG-20240401-122524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z2H7CxK)
(https://i.ibb.co/z8hnmvF/IMG-20240401-122554.jpg) (https://ibb.co/db0WfYt)
(https://i.ibb.co/BZJ1KQW/IMG-20240401-122608.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5837xSp)

I've pulled all the internal bearings and seals, measured and checked against the OEM parts and compiled a shopping list which I'll share as a google sheet once I've separated it off from my rambling notes. Ultimately it means you can get all the bearings and seals (not including crank seals and bearings but you'll see why in a mo), for less than £100 compared to the £350-£400 if bought from Yamaha.

(https://i.ibb.co/87JdCPf/IMG-20240331-215227.jpg) (https://ibb.co/crPCB2Z)
(https://i.ibb.co/yRmcBnq/IMG-20240330-205709.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z5WTHhZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/25SgHrQ/IMG-20240330-205731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/52kBw3y)
(https://i.ibb.co/XzKLnp8/IMG-20240330-205750.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CnY8jv2)

(https://i.ibb.co/jT75Fmm/IMG-20240331-200237.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hypMvbb)
(https://i.ibb.co/T8F9f2N/IMG-20240331-200917.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PhfqLjV)
(https://i.ibb.co/q1y0tXV/IMG-20240331-200927.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7yYgw8L)
(https://i.ibb.co/WzCXLxR/IMG-20240331-210108.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1XcNkv4)
(https://i.ibb.co/BV96YTS/IMG-20240331-213209-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZq5GFv)
(https://i.ibb.co/SNW05qK/IMG-20240331-213331-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sjkQbLF)
(https://i.ibb.co/tK1vPvn/IMG-20240331-215232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nmKY8Y4)

Strangely I have a needle roller bearing for the gear change shaft but don't see that listed on the parts manuals. Is that an omission or am I mad? It is an IKO TLA1212Z.

I've also placed an order with Mitsuo of Cruzin Image for:

Full gasket set
All 3 crank seals
2 x small end bearings
Carb rebuild kits.

https://www.cruzinimage.net/?s=3xv

This was all very reasonably priced and the shipping was around £15 (once you submit a request for a total, versus just clicking buy it now). Not sure if I'll get hit for the import duty and 'bend over' charges that the couriers like to add but even with that it seems great and reviews seem good too. Undecided on whether I'll use the head gaskets yet but will check the quality when they arrive. I've had a Royal mail text from the moment they were shipping in Japan! - Update, these are no due for delivery tomorrow. Speedy.

I enquired with Arrow about refurb of the oil pump but he doesn't work on the 3XV pumps so I'm unsure where to go with this. I don't remember seeing much on here about other people refurbing them so do people generally leave them alone?

I already have 2 sets of gaskets that I ordered from Dan (Gasket Guru) before he shut up shop so I have both .5 and .75mm bases gaskets which I understand are nice to have as options for setting the squish.

As mentioned in previous comments I have an SP crank from Andy at Webbs ready to go in.

Exhausts

This is exciting news for me and the latest kick up the a55 to get me prioritising the bike again. I managed to snag a set of Jackals from fastline via ebay. As I mentioned at the start of the project I am/was/is/ doing this on a budget with the primary goal being to have a rideable bike. I'm not going for max power and so was happy to have stock pipes knowing that a set of nice pipes were probably not likely to come up and I didn't really know which ones I'd want either. The pipes came up at an affordable price for me and I hadn't spent anything on the bike since the RD had been sold so I splurged.

(https://i.ibb.co/XVdQhhh/IMG-20240308-123847.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GF16KKK)
(https://i.ibb.co/r3VK6h0/IMG-20240308-123851.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vhSCPWq)
(https://i.ibb.co/G0SDG3z/IMG-20240308-123855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pxFTNrY)
(https://i.ibb.co/dg2s9LH/IMG-20240308-123901.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HdzLvx9)

Carbs
These are stripped and the bodies are going to be aqua blasted too after a few sessions in the Ultra sonic didn't seem to resolve it.
I've ordered a set of body gaskets from ebay which are listed for the DT125R which also used the tm28.
Carb kits from Cruzin image

(https://i.ibb.co/2qY9kQH/IMG-20240329-162951.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8M4C7pt)
(https://i.ibb.co/4ZcnHKX/IMG-20240329-163621.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0jkRxm6)
(https://i.ibb.co/FhjDbWm/IMG-20240324-WA0035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p19LvPb)

Big things still on the list to do

• Rebuild the forks
  Rebuild the engine
  Wire in the Zeel
  Fit the brakes, chain and sprockets.

...do you know there's lots actually so i'm not gonna keep going here and overwhelm mysefl!

I've spent many hours cleaning up and inspecting various things like:

Airboxes - One needed a little repair.

Inlet manifolds & reed cages - These all seem good after a clean up. Reeds are sealing and no splits in the rubbers.

PV linkage - The rubber boots were toast, are NLA and have a flat/blade style shaft, rather than a round shaft. I can't find replacements so will probably do as Rich did and use some from elsewhere.
Air jet things - I still don't fully get them and I've not touched them. When I'm at the stage of testing I will and would like to strip and clean but am scared of making things worse right now.

Gear lever and footrest hanger - I took this off today stripped it down and clean it up. In photos it doesn't look much different! I've found that my gear lever "L" bit thingy has obviously snapped off previously and so a threaded bolt style insert has been fashioned as I see that stock it is all one part. I'll see how I go with this and decide if I want a new lever at some point. As Thump found out, they are still available from Yamaha and offer a marginal improvement over some rubber band retained allen keys.  ;D


(https://i.ibb.co/419fyMP/IMG-20240401-124208.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tLkhfc8)
(https://i.ibb.co/bmxh0wh/IMG-20240324-181452.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9G12q1)
(https://i.ibb.co/QpyBBnk/IMG-20240324-190039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JmDLL2q)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYVVQYK/IMG-20240324-190046.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4xxY4F)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ny5vCRL/IMG-20240324-190048.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6KLjk5)
(https://i.ibb.co/vs74MNk/IMG-20240401-133449.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbGhsWQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/WybLx60/IMG-20240401-133310.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gT5xj3d)
(https://i.ibb.co/NsW6YQD/IMG-20240401-175416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/474ZN9v)

Clocks

I have got a set of conversion stickers. I opened them up again the other day and they look like the white bits have gone pink. Might need to check again in better light and then make contact with the seller if that has happened.

So yeah, that's where I'm at now.

A few questions I have if anyone has any answers:

1. Are the captive threads in the swing arm that secure the hugger replacable and if so, how? One of mine spins.

2. What are the closest grips to stock or the best/nicest ones. I know that's subjective but interested in opinions.

3. What have people done with their mechanical oil pumps? I know I sorta asked earlier.

4. Apart from anything I've covered are there any Gotcha's or import bits of info that people who have rebuilt these (Engines or whole bikes) wish they'd kknown before or wish they'd done whilst the engine was apart?

5. Do you see anything in any of my photos that suggests an issue that I may have overlooked?

I feel like I'm doing a pretty comprehensive job but I am always very open to any criticism, suggestions or advice.

Brave for using cruzin image parts?

QuoteGav's of Berkshire

LMAO!

The gear lever upgrade (from the Allen key and rubber band temporary solution after the original failed) was actually machined up by a mate, haven't actually checked if the OEM part is still available?

Great update Andy, it looks like you're making a lot of progress.  (-P)

Quote from: thump566 on April 03, 2024, 05:20:49 PM

The gear lever upgrade (from the Allen key and rubber band temporary solution after the original failed) was actually machined up by a mate, haven't actually checked if the OEM part is still available?

Great update Andy, it looks like you're making a lot of progress.  (-P)

OEM is available, something like £60 I remember?? They have about 150 in stock!!!

These work pretty well if you countersink the back of the lever a bit and use loctite on the threads. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143675298652?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=W21DxTW1RwC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=A9UvKJ3lTrK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Quote from: SeaR1ck on April 03, 2024, 04:01:55 AM
Brave for using cruzin image parts?

Really? I've have a look around and saw loads of positive reviews. There was one guy who was moaning about the wrong part arriving and in the end he was apologising to Mitsuo. They've now arrived and the quality looks fantastic to me. I'll upload some photos.

I've put them in a public album to save spamming this.

The baset gaskets seem to have a layer of metal in the middle and all have sealant in the places you'd want it.

The heads even look good. I've not got any Genuines here to compare to but they look as good as Athena's that I've always used on DT125R engines.

Open to expert opinions!

https://ibb.co/album/whFW24

Quote from: thump566 on April 03, 2024, 05:20:49 PM

The gear lever upgrade (from the Allen key and rubber band temporary solution after the original failed) was actually machined up by a mate, haven't actually checked if the OEM part is still available?

Great update Andy, it looks like you're making a lot of progress.  (-P)

Oh right! I thought you bought a new one. Yeah they seem to be available. (Edit, replied here before seeing that Rich confirmed too!)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362541293409

Quote from: Warwick on April 04, 2024, 07:13:19 PM
These work pretty well if you countersink the back of the lever a bit and use loctite on the threads. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143675298652?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=W21DxTW1RwC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=A9UvKJ3lTrK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Ah yeah, that's a good idea. I've already bought a new cover, not knowing mine has been repaired already so if my cover fits over snugly then I'll probably stick with that as it's already been threaded but nice to know there are some backups. Maybe I'll carry one of those stashed under the seat.

Quote from: AndyYam on April 05, 2024, 06:51:56 PM

Quote from: thump566 on April 03, 2024, 05:20:49 PM

The gear lever upgrade (from the Allen key and rubber band temporary solution after the original failed) was actually machined up by a mate, haven't actually checked if the OEM part is still available?

Great update Andy, it looks like you're making a lot of progress.  (-P)

Oh right! I thought you bought a new one. Yeah they seem to be available. (Edit, replied here before seeing that Rich confirmed too!)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362541293409

Thumps gear lever came apart some time ago and when I broke mine in a crash I used the yahama jp website to check for parts and ordered via Andy at Webbs. Bonza!

Quote from: AndyYam on April 01, 2024, 10:32:52 PM

I chewed a few of the bearing retaining heads along the way. I was using Acetone/ATF, heat and a set of JIS screwdrivers and a proper impact driver but they were still being naughty. I've got an order with Andy at Webbs about to go in so have added the extras to that.

Yeah those bearing plates can be a bastard. I use a bit in a socket to get those. You can get a stronger torque action with a socket wrench. Then also a bit that fits perfectly. I found my JIS bits/screwdrivers don't always fit as snugly. I bought one of those cheap sets with tons of bits and found some that fit super tight in in those screw heads with no movement. Then some heat as well and they came out like butter.

Quote from: AndyYam on April 01, 2024, 10:32:52 PM
I've pulled all the internal bearings and seals, measured and checked against the OEM parts and compiled a shopping list which I'll share as a google sheet once I've separated it off from my rambling notes. Ultimately it means you can get all the bearings and seals (not including crank seals and bearings but you'll see why in a mo), for less than £100 compared to the £350-£400 if bought from Yamaha.

Some of the gearbox bearings are clearance rated (C3 I think) so just match those if going non-oem. I managed to find the same Koyo's but price was similar to OEM... :-\

Quote from: AndyYam on April 01, 2024, 10:32:52 PM
Strangely I have a needle roller bearing for the gear change shaft but don't see that listed on the parts manuals. Is that an omission or am I mad? It is an IKO TLA1212Z.

Check Steve's rebuild thread, I think he managed to find those IKO's at a supplier. (They are not available from Yamaha).

Quote from: AndyYam on April 01, 2024, 10:32:52 PM
I enquired with Arrow about refurb of the oil pump but he doesn't work on the 3XV pumps so I'm unsure where to go with this. I don't remember seeing much on here about other people refurbing them so do people generally leave them alone?

I think the pumps are quite reliable...

Quote from: AndyYam on April 01, 2024, 10:32:52 PM
I managed to snag a set of Jackals from fastline via ebay.

That's nice set!

Quote from: AndyYam on April 01, 2024, 10:32:52 PM
So yeah, that's where I'm at now.

A few questions I have if anyone has any answers:

1. Are the captive threads in the swing arm that secure the hugger replacable and if so, how? One of mine spins.

2. What are the closest grips to stock or the best/nicest ones. I know that's subjective but interested in opinions.

3. What have people done with their mechanical oil pumps? I know I sorta asked earlier.

4. Apart from anything I've covered are there any Gotcha's or import bits of info that people who have rebuilt these (Engines or whole bikes) wish they'd known before or wish they'd done whilst the engine was apart?

5. Do you see anything in any of my photos that suggests an issue that I may have overlooked?

I feel like I'm doing a pretty comprehensive job but I am always very open to any criticism, suggestions or advice.

1. Is the thread stripped? Not sure what can be done..maybe tap it again?
2. Renthal does a similar diamond pattern grip. It's dark grey though. I just stick with OEM, still available. All other grips are usually an eye sore..
3. I've never had a faulty pump so far..

4 and 5 - Some things that spring to mind,

What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

Remember the water galley seal between the cases when you do the crank cases. The conrods also have a way to end up poking through the reed cage if you don't pay attention. For some reason I know. Also all the locating dowls. And a few drop of 2 stroke oil on the crank bearings prior to installing.

The larger crank seal is installed in 'reverse' direction, ie, cup side to the outside.

The OEM balance shaft seal is different from the aftermarket ones I've seen, like it has an extra sealing surface. I recommend using that. Crank seal I would also go OEM with. (What do the Cruzin seals look like?)

Remember loctite on the internal oil pump screws and the bearing plates. The torque values for those are in the 3XVA-B manual.

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM


What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

My method was to heat the case up and cool the bearing down. Interference fit turned out to be a "drop in" -> https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk (https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk) (much to my surprise!)

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM

Some of the gearbox bearings are clearance rated (C3 I think) so just match those if going non-oem. I managed to find the same Koyo's but price was similar to OEM... :-\

Awesome, cheers. I seem to have found all of them. I've got them all here now and been comparing and all seems good. Every single one represented a big saving compared to oem whilst keeping the same Manafactuar and number/clearance rating. I think I put a screenshot earlier but I'll try and get it in a google sheet that I can make public so it can go into the resources section.

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM

Check Steve's rebuild thread, I think he managed to find those IKO's at a supplier. (They are not available from Yamaha).

Yup managed to get this one too. Just found it odd that it's not in the manual.

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM

I think the pumps are quite reliable...

Good to know, will have a look at it and see if there is anything that is obviously worn/wrong and go from there.

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM

That's nice set!

Cheers, I'm well chuffed. Can't wait to hear and feel them!

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM
What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

Cases in the Oven, bearings in the freezer. I have a heat gun that goes 550c too so probably apply that once the whole cases are already heated. On a day that my partner is at work/out!

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM
Remember the water galley seal between the cases when you do the crank cases. The conrods also have a way to end up poking through the reed cage if you don't pay attention. For some reason I know. Also all the locating dowls. And a few drop of 2 stroke oil on the crank bearings prior to installing.

Yes I have that! To be fair it's a strong rubber seal by the looks of it. I guess they are single use but I bet they would last a few times.

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM
The larger crank seal is installed in 'reverse' direction, ie, cup side to the outside.

Good to note. I think I took lots of photos of the strip but that sounds like an easy one to get wrong. I've seen lots of Rd450 builds where the seals have gone in the wrong way and arguments ensue about how "mines been like that for years". I think the haynes manual actually shows it the wrong way round on that one!

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM
The OEM balance shaft seal is different from the aftermarket ones I've seen, like it has an extra sealing surface. I recommend using that. Crank seal I would also go OEM with. (What do the Cruzin seals look like?)

Hmm ok. Will double check that comparison again. I had a feeling that alot of the seal I got were "Twin lipped" maybe?

I'm currently planning to go with the Cruzin Image crank seals. They look great. As I say, no genuines to compare with but in terms of quality of the seal they seem great.
Here they are in an album. Think you should be able to view https://ibb.co/album/whFW24

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM
Remember loctite on the internal oil pump screws and the bearing plates. The torque values for those are in the 3XVA-B manual.

Thanks. I might take a look through and make a list of those bits that need Red sauce adding.


Thanks for taking the time to add all those replies. Much appreciated.

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on April 08, 2024, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM


What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

My method was to heat the case up and cool the bearing down. Interference fit turned out to be a "drop in" -> https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk (https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk) (much to my surprise!)

this sounds very promising!

what sort of temps did you go to? The video link is private rich. You should be able to set to "unlisted" which means anyone with the link can view but it doesn't get indexed on youtubes search.

Quote from: AndyYam on April 09, 2024, 10:47:40 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on April 08, 2024, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM


What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

My method was to heat the case up and cool the bearing down. Interference fit turned out to be a "drop in" -> https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk (https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk) (much to my surprise!)

this sounds very promising!

what sort of temps did you go to? The video link is private rich. You should be able to set to "unlisted" which means anyone with the link can view but it doesn't get indexed on youtubes search.

Doh! Set the video to unlisted, so you'll be able to see I only used an electric heat gun. I'll have to check back my notes on how hot I got it to, but it wasn't much and I only put the bearing in the freezer for half an hour or so!

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on April 10, 2024, 12:19:44 AM

Quote from: AndyYam on April 09, 2024, 10:47:40 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on April 08, 2024, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM


What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

My method was to heat the case up and cool the bearing down. Interference fit turned out to be a "drop in" -> https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk (https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk) (much to my surprise!)

this sounds very promising!

what sort of temps did you go to? The video link is private rich. You should be able to set to "unlisted" which means anyone with the link can view but it doesn't get indexed on youtubes search.

Doh! Set the video to unlisted, so you'll be able to see I only used an electric heat gun. I'll have to check back my notes on how hot I got it to, but it wasn't much and I only put the bearing in the freezer for half an hour or so!

wow, I really hope mine goes as easy as this then! That was one hell of a celebration. Had you had lots of attempts previously or was it just a task you were dreading/expecting to go badly?

Quote from: AndyYam on April 11, 2024, 06:07:00 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on April 10, 2024, 12:19:44 AM

Quote from: AndyYam on April 09, 2024, 10:47:40 PM

Quote from: SouthCoastRich on April 08, 2024, 02:34:25 PM

Quote from: ybk on April 08, 2024, 07:51:06 AM


What's your plan to get all the gearbox bearings in? Some of them can be a bit tricky if you don't have access to a press. The gearbox plate is fairly easy, the output shaft can be a hassle.

My method was to heat the case up and cool the bearing down. Interference fit turned out to be a "drop in" -> https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk (https://youtu.be/4D_9myoVwRk) (much to my surprise!)

this sounds very promising!

what sort of temps did you go to? The video link is private rich. You should be able to set to "unlisted" which means anyone with the link can view but it doesn't get indexed on youtubes search.

Doh! Set the video to unlisted, so you'll be able to see I only used an electric heat gun. I'll have to check back my notes on how hot I got it to, but it wasn't much and I only put the bearing in the freezer for half an hour or so!

wow, I really hope mine goes as easy as this then! That was one hell of a celebration. Had you had lots of attempts previously or was it just a task you were dreading/expecting to go badly?

First attempt and I never expected it to work!!! PS - it was heating the case up to 45C (just so there was less heat gradient) then the areas around the bearing to just over 100C

Some further progress this week as I've had the week off work. No where near as much as I expected and I'm going out there for the rest of the afternoon to do some smaller jobs but I'm really pleased to have got most of the big work done that I just wouldn't be able to do in the evenings after work. The two big jobs were Fork rebuild and Engine build.

Cylinders

I thought moer about my cylinders and managed to comlete a mental journey from the beginnings of "nah they'll be alright" to "it would be mad to not replate them at this point". So I'm settled on that but that has caused me some further stresses and as a result of the below, have gone on hold so that I can make progress in other areas and come back to them. If they become the only thing holding me up from "completion" then that will be a good problem to have.

1. Stud removal

I needed to strip the studs out and on one cylinder they all came out fairly easily using 2 nuts locked together. On the 2nd cylinder, a couple of head studs came out ok but then the rest did not with the same amount of pressure. I was using Acetone/ATF mix and a little draper versaflame butane blowtorch. No joy and ultimately sheared off one of the studs that goes through the waterjacket. Whoever designed that gets a pass because they were part of creating the 3XV but I'd still shake a fist at them and go "grrrrr". I'm still a bit stuck with these and now more scared. This one will have to be drilled out ofcourse and hopefully without the need to helicoil. The others are still studs so hoping that someone with better tools and methods might be able to help.

2. The replating itself.

I saw BDK engineering and had a phonecall with Charles and so that was/is my first preference. It's been suggested that they won't actually do the replate and will likely send on to Langcourts. I'm paranoid about the parcel being lost in transit with my cylinders and Wossners in. I mean, what value would you insure the parcel for to start with and in the even they do get lost, what a hassle that would be to replace. So if they go to BDK then get shipped again, thats twice the risk. Due to that I'm thinking that if BDK do it in house then I'll go with them and will go in person and if they post on then I'll take to langcourts. Both Langcourts and BDK are about 3 hour drive from me.

(https://i.ibb.co/wKwT0WN/IMG-20240422-WA0008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p3Rg0zv)

Forks

Thanks to:
SouthCoastRich who gave me his spare bush kit following his work to track down some aftermarket replacements and provided varuous bits of advice.
Malc for creating the PDf guides on the SP forks which was massivley useful  (found here http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=134.msg745#msg745)
Everyone else who has added comments and useful info the various fork rebuild threads.

A couple few complications/addendums that I'd add are:

• Make sure you have a decent long reach 6mm allen socket to get to the main retaining bolt in the bottom of the fork. I did not and had to use a 6mm allen key and a spanner. It worked but was not ideal.
• The PDF seems to suggest that the fork oil level is measured without the springs in (Unless I mis-read). This is not the case and when re-assembling you put the damper and spring in together and bolt this through the lower then add your fork oil and extract the excess til you get a 116mm gap from the top of the Fork outer tube
• To get the main retaining bolt mentioned above in back in, I dropped the Cap into the fork leg (the right way up) then put my bolt and washer in, going through this cap. Then I dropped the damper, spring etc in. With the allen key pressed against the floor (rubber matts) I pushed down, compressing the sprin, and rotated the whole assembly to get the thread to bite. It wasn't pretty but it worked after a few attempts
• Work out a bungee system to hang your upper leg from the ceiling whilst you are tapping the bushes in. Malc described this in the pdf and I honestly thought it was a joke at first but when I realised what I needed to do it worked amazingly. I used a cable tie round the stanchion to hold all the other bits up higher and out of the way. You'll see what I mean when you do this. Photos below help.
• When splitting the outer and inner tubes; use heat. I struggled til my arms were almost too tired to keep "yanking" and seeing no further movement. After using a heat gun to heat the area up quite a bit it probably took another 10 or so "yanks" but they came free. I think my bushes and seals might have actually been replaced fairly recently to the bike going off the road so maybe they werent worn as much but they were being very stubborn.
• Use the washer that sites between the seal and the bush to knock the bush in first, then go round gently tapping if it is not fully seated. My first few attempts at going round the bush to knock it in were fruitless and felt wrong to fit one side of a bush. The washer distributed the fork around the whole thing and it went in easily. A fork seal driver woud ofcourse be even better.
• You do need to remove the fork caps from the damper rod*? in order tp pump the damper to fill it with oil. This involves pulling down the inner tube to expose the 14mm nut and holding this whilst you undo the fork caps. Get the 2 spanners in a V shape from the center and squeeze and it releases then you can unscrew by hand.
• Exposing the 14mm nut I did by putting a small allen key/bar through the holes in this inner tube and pushing down. It was fiddly and annoying as the cap seems to come down with it. If you can, get a 2nd pair of hands
• The reverse of getting the cap back on is also fiddly as the top of the damper bar is below the level of the inner tube so you have to compress the spring again. I did this by putting the fork upright under the lip of my workbench/table and again, used a bar through the 2 holes in the inner tube to compress against the floor until the inner tube was a few inches compressed and then pushed under the lip of the table, enough so that the thread could be pulled up out and the cap can be put on. I know that's not too clear but you'll see when you try. Feel free to pm me if you're planning on doing this.

(https://i.ibb.co/jR2qYG2/IMG-20240423-WA0011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fv5ZWt5)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xkc6dZZ/IMG-20240423-135217.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M5FKjDD)
(https://i.ibb.co/KDFmTNY/IMG-20240423-135228.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bFz7cHx)
(https://i.ibb.co/dJFS0pD/IMG-20240423-140027.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tPgSM2D)
(https://i.ibb.co/q5rQXhg/IMG-20240423-152310.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FVDTNcY)
(https://i.ibb.co/n6gqQSf/Screenshot-from-2024-04-27-13-04-23.png) (https://ibb.co/hL7x2vH)
(https://i.ibb.co/xC7kGQ5/IMG-20240423-153807.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kHS70Fc)
(https://i.ibb.co/GWHnpty/IMG-20240423-170351.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jyJbfWm)
(https://i.ibb.co/YTGW93K/IMG-20240423-172846.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5xV9D6z)



Vapour Blasting

I'm super happy with the work that Chris (Mid Sussex Vapour Blasting) has done. A fellow biker and 2 stroke enthusiast which is always reassuring. Always nice to see a before and after so here is before:

(https://i.ibb.co/y55Z9Y8/IMG-20240329-154016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QnnTgC6)

...and after...

(https://i.ibb.co/NFWHh0d/IMG-20240414-192917.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MgP3Tzx)
(https://i.ibb.co/GWWVzFV/IMG-20240414-193058.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3pp0gk0)
(https://i.ibb.co/njkdGjb/IMG-20240414-193023.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vkzyFkH)
(https://i.ibb.co/X478WbL/IMG-20240414-193004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mB98RGT)
(https://i.ibb.co/TrLRs0D/IMG-20240414-192955.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M96pm1y)
(https://i.ibb.co/ngH3jWq/IMG-20240414-192941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kHR3XdV)
(https://i.ibb.co/NyS389r/IMG-20240414-192938.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2kN6DvS)
(https://i.ibb.co/7J3SGYK/IMG-20240414-192930.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nsXwDgj)

You'll note the cylinders not included as there was no point in paying for these to be done if they are going for replating.

I'm going to brush on a thin coating of ACF-50 prior to installation to protect the surfaces for a longer period of time. I know this will attract dirt to stick but I'd rather this with regular clearning and re-application that allowing it to get back to the tarnished state it was in. Open to thoughts here.


Engine bearings

My bearingkings order arrived with all my bearings and seals arrived and so I had an evening of comparing with the ones removed from the bike to be sure everything was correct.

(https://i.ibb.co/GvxGBNc/IMG-20240408-205006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SXsHWGR)

All were A-OK (Unless the wine consumption affected my ability to read and measure accurately...  ;D)

Engine rebuild (Phase 1)

Without the cylinders I knew there would be a point I'd have to stop but wanted to get all the bearings fitted and the gearbox assembled whilst it was still relatively fresh in my mind. I also don't want to get my SP crank out of it's Yamaha box and bag until it's really needed. Is that silly and unnessecary? Maybe but full disclosure, that Crank cost me more than I've ever spent on an entire Car until last weekend.

Post blasting cleaning

I started by reading horror stories of media left over from blasting so first got the cases out and went about doubling my water bill with the Jetwash. Somewhat unorthadox maybe but I'm now condident there is no media left in the cases.

(https://i.ibb.co/8jn3Ff3/IMG-20240425-121445.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qRLGbcG)
(https://i.ibb.co/3CyHqC9/IMG-20240425-121442.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCZTgCr)

Bearing fitting

Next was getting ready to fit the bearings. I got so hung up on the fact that there are 2 bearings in blind wholes that I completely forgot that I could wind in the rest with bearing drift / press tool (threaded bar and spacers sorta thing). I do have one of these and did end up using it to push home a couple but most dropped once the cases had been in the oven for a while and the bearings had been in the freezer for the morning.

This felt like quite a task but probably me making a pigs ear out of it and I'd be comfortable doing it again now. I even managed to burn myself on a very hot gasket surface on the cases!

I used new Gen screws/bolts for the bearing retaining plates and red threadlock. The new ones from Yamaha were black whereas the ones that came out were silver. I hope they work the same and that it doesn't upset any purists.  (-P) >:D ;D

The result was satisfying though with all 9 bearings across the cases and gearbox Cassette (Is that the right word?) now brand new and at 25% of the price of Yamaha.

1. Counter / Blance shaft ball bearing
2. Counter / Blance shaft needle bearing
3. Gearchange needle bearing
4. Clutch arm needle bearing
5. Gearbox bearing - Output shaft sprocket end (in cases)
6. Gearbox bearing - Input shaft clutch arm end (in cases)
7. Gearbox bearing - Output shaft (in Cassette)
8. Gearbox bearing - Input shaft Clutch (In Cassette)
9. Selector drum bearing (In Cassette)

(https://i.ibb.co/HXMs6JX/IMG-20240425-WA0011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1bp51Sb)
(https://i.ibb.co/MS05bnv/IMG-20240425-WA0010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7CmNHvf)

Fitting other bits

I then moved on and re fitted the various other bits that go on the cassette

• Gearbox oil pump
• Selector Drum
• Gears
• Clutch - I rough fitted this to make sure I had everything I needed but will come back to this during stage 2.

(https://i.ibb.co/Xj7W1MD/IMG-20240425-193735.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9cbp6Sh)
(https://i.ibb.co/XygMmWp/IMG-20240425-193731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6vxL6yb)
(https://i.ibb.co/MGYtkdM/IMG-20240425-173303.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Y6XRkP)



And some bits that fit to the cases:

• Waterpump seal and impellar - I was a bit worried about how tough this was to rotate but I think that suggests a good seal on the shaft/seal. There is not bearing, just a thick seal.
• Counter / Balance shaft and gear.
• Clutch actuator arm. this took some working out and ended up looking at photos from the workshop manual. Very useful and I'm starting to translate the 3XV1-2 manual in bits and pieces as I need info.
• Gear selector gubbins. This is fiddly to get right. Had to have a weird process of holding the little spring loaded flaps in whilst threading the plate around this. I got there though!

(https://i.ibb.co/Z8D7X0N/IMG-20240426-144108.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YkswQxb)
(https://i.ibb.co/wQ1ZsQW/IMG-20240426-142854.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t25wX2s)
(https://i.ibb.co/RD8mKhT/IMG-20240426-142845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MCd4H8k)
(https://i.ibb.co/qFgkJRF/IMG-20240426-142842.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BK6qngK)
(https://i.ibb.co/CWR8znZ/IMG-20240426-142838.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KmThX9k)
(https://i.ibb.co/SN2G7vs/IMG-20240426-142835.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WnQjpKx)
(https://i.ibb.co/3Rdrq8Z/IMG-20240426-133247.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FH3xMfT)
(https://i.ibb.co/RgnMq3B/IMG-20240426-133231.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x2vcN1f)
(https://i.ibb.co/PzNYfW9/IMG-20240426-133225.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vvHBKdQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/6J3XG5x/IMG-20240426-133213.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x8pFwQ0)
(https://i.ibb.co/xCjmfKq/IMG-20240426-133202.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgFbCKh)
(https://i.ibb.co/fd0P5d8/IMG-20240425-212901.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N2YHP21)
(https://i.ibb.co/SBcytK0/IMG-20240425-212847.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VTx9gvD)
(https://i.ibb.co/2jLvxk1/IMG-20240425-212844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qR4NKr3)


Misc

I found my clock stickers an the whites on them appear to be pink. I don't remember whether they were like this when they arrived but they've been in a box out of sunlight since then. I've messaged Classic Gauges whom supplied them and will report back with the outcome.

The trouble with the cylinder head studs has reinforced my ideas of using Waterless coolant. I'll be totally dry to start so won't need to prep fluid AFAIK.

I'm wondering about getting titanium studs for those and will use some good thread sealant too when they get fitted. Thoughts welcome on this. Has anyone else gone down this route? Pretty sure they are m8 x 1.25 and 60mm in length.
The other 6 studs (3 per cyl) are m8 x 1.25 and 50mm in length.
Exhaust studs are m8 x 1.25 and 40mm in length.
I'll probably go Stainless steel with hex ends for easier fitting/removal.

Carbs still need building, which will be a joy now they are blasted. Again I will be cleaning these carefully to make sure no media is in any passageways. I've found that the needles from Cruzin Image are both the same. I think one should be a 7 and one an 8 but they are both 8. so I'll probably re-use my 7 and feedback to Mistsuo.

On the Cruzin Image note I'm still waiting to hear where the bad rep comes from. My Dad has a GT750 and turns out his pistons are 2.5mm OS from Cruzin Image (1 OS beyond what is normally available) and he's been running those for a long time now as do a lot of the kettle owners, so that was reassuring. As I say the quality looks spot on for the gaskets and the paper ones even come with the sealant bead which only OEM seem to have. Here are some photos (There's a link in previous comments to the full album):

(https://i.ibb.co/NFqmYLC/IMG-20240403-201146-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vcWQzJq)
(https://i.ibb.co/w6cmH11/IMG-20240403-201059-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/88YZ3VV)
(https://i.ibb.co/LxNKDds/IMG-20240403-200339.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GWHmfQr)
(https://i.ibb.co/wzZvK58/IMG-20240403-195748.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x7K4Mxw)
(https://i.ibb.co/C2tpDYg/IMG-20240403-195741.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nC0qtY9)
(https://i.ibb.co/PrpBX1S/IMG-20240403-195737.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S6TqYVL)
(https://i.ibb.co/12SkK9c/IMG-20240403-195726.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ryWVMZ9)



My clutch springs do look a little tired so I'm thinking I might order a new set of those. Any reccomendations on replacements or considerations for upgrades there and reasons why? Treat me like an idiot as I don't know why you would but I've heard conversations about upgraded clutch springs.

My Carb body gaskets arrived from ebay. I have since found another set that I must have ordered previously but not made a note of so that's a nice spare set to have I guess:

(https://i.ibb.co/4ZXB3Jv/IMG-20240408-212124.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jvQ7sH0)

My clutch perch and lever was not original and contrary to my dig at purists earlier, I did want the original perch and lever. I've previously found that it was also used on a TZ125 around 1994 and that was it. What a special perch! Anyway...that part number was 5F6-82911-00 and was where my searching were turning up blanks other that Europe/US at prices that extended beyond my cheapass limit until I found this link:

I then found this link: https://pro-formance-cycle.com/products/yamaha-bw-it-tz-ytm-yz-lever-holder-4v4-82911-00-4v4-82911-00-98-5f6-82911-00

...which seems to suggest that the same part has a few different part numbers. Not sure if this is 100% correct but I put that link into ebay after some issues trying to order from that site direct and found a couple of NOS:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2332490.m570.l1313&_nkw=4V4-82911-00&_sacat=0

I ordered the pin/bolt from Yamaha and a pattern lever and it all went together well

(https://i.ibb.co/6BF2CD1/IMG-20240408-211939.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WtfQJBP)

The clamp part was also available from Yamaha at a reasonable price so go that too (not pictured)

My plastic welding gun arrived so at somepoint I'll have a go with that on some test plastics. I ordered loads of extra staples and a better quality pair of snips to hopefully cut the staple excess off as flush as possible:

(https://i.ibb.co/QdG8DBZ/IMG-20240426-154739.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BNR4nDm)

Our work have bought a 3D printer also which I'm allowed to use. I tried to print the frame protector (not the chain slider but the one jools posted on here http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=6800.0). I obviously didn't set it right as I came back to a birdsnest of plastic all over the place. I'll try this again.

My boss also told me that the new iphones can double as 3D scanners so I'm tempted to find a friend who has one and try to get a basic scan of my fairly good condition chain slider (fits to the swing arm).

So that's where I'm at now. There are a few other bits I've found I need to acquire, which I'll create a wanted post for:

Riders seat mounting bolt/post - If I can't get one I'll follow rich down the button release upgrade.
Battery to loom connector - Not hugely worried but mine seems to have been modified to just have spade connectors to go straight to the battery.

Clutch plates and springs for the wet clutch. Are the same as the current generation yz125. You can use the oem kit it just comes with one extra plate.
Search the kit part # might be able to find a kit using the yz125 # for less than buying them separately.

As far as the cruzin image thing goes. The parts are cheap prices. Doesn't state country of origin where they are made.

If the gaskets look fit for purpose I'd have no problem using them. I'd be less inclined to use the important metering carb parts though. If you have the oe needles and needle jets maybe use those in the first instance so you have fewer complicating variables for the initial start up and set-up. Then maybe try the CI bits later to compare?

Nice update, very thorough  8) The blasting looks real nice.

Fork oil height is measured without the springs, sounds like you did it with the spring in?

Part number 3GW-82509-00 for the battery connector if you want it stock, pricey though.

Quote from: SeaR1ck on April 27, 2024, 05:12:23 PM
Clutch plates and springs for the wet clutch. Are the same as the current generation yz125. You can use the oem kit it just comes with one extra plate.
Search the kit part # might be able to find a kit using the yz125 # for less than buying them separately.

As far as the cruzin image thing goes. The parts are cheap prices. Doesn't state country of origin where they are made.

Interesting. I'll look into the clutch bits.

That's true. They seem to good to be true which is why maybe people are sceptical. I've also since found out that my Dad's Kettle (Suzuki GT750) has been running Cruzin Image pistons as they make O/S ones that go beyond the top O/S anyone else does. Time will tell I guess!

Quote from: Warwick on April 28, 2024, 01:43:56 PM
If the gaskets look fit for purpose I'd have no problem using them. I'd be less inclined to use the important metering carb parts though. If you have the oe needles and needle jets maybe use those in the first instance so you have fewer complicating variables for the initial start up and set-up. Then maybe try the CI bits later to compare?

Good point there. Maybe unless my stock stuff needs replacing I should clean and go with that to start.  I have an US cleaner so it can all go in there.

Quote from: ybk on April 29, 2024, 03:27:17 AM
Nice update, very thorough  8) The blasting looks real nice.

Fork oil height is measured without the springs, sounds like you did it with the spring in?

Part number 3GW-82509-00 for the battery connector if you want it stock, pricey though.

Thanks YBK. I think documenting the process is a big part of the enjoyment for me.

Yeah I am really happy with the blasting I just hope it stays nice for some time. I guess that's all down to me now!

Forks
I think I understand what I did wrong then with the fork oil level.

I did the whole process with the caps still attached to the end of the damper rods so for me the springs went on the damper rods from the bottom and then the whole assembly into the lower leg.

It was only when I realised I needed to pump the damper rods that I took the caps off and I was already in the mindset that the springs had to come off from the bottom. At this point I could have just lifted them out right?

I think I'll be taking them off again to sort that then. To be fair it was about 400ml of oil in each but I guess those springs will have displaced quite a bit of oil so I'll need to add some more.

Thanks for flagging that. Not sure what the impact would be there. Much less air gap = ???

As I write this I had a sudden moment of panic when I thought that meant the fork seals and bushes had to come out again but that's not true. I just need to:

• Undo the caps
• Compress the springs
• Remove the caps
• Withdraw the springs
• Set the air gap again
• Reverse 4 through 1

Battery connector

Thanks for the part number. For now I'm going to stick with what I have. If it's just a connector with the fuse in then I'm not too fussed. This bike won't be a purists dream, it's my dream  ;D.

Quote from: AndyYam on May 10, 2024, 10:08:23 PM

As I write this I had a sudden moment of panic when I thought that meant the fork seals and bushes had to come out again but that's not true. I just need to:

• Undo the caps
• Compress the springs
• Remove the caps
• Withdraw the springs
• Set the air gap again
• Reverse 4 through 1

Hehe, I know the feeling, thankfully just changing the oil level is not the worst! ^-^

Waiting for the next update 8)

YBK, you don't need to wait too long! As a web dev, a big red Warning message grabs my attention, lovely that it was just to alert me to a new reply though. Phew!

Cylinders, heads and plating

I finally got round to calling BDK back to ask if they would be sending the Cylinders off elsewhere for plating. The answer was no. It's done in house but they take them somewhere for the diamond boring required on on the plating.

That conversation turned into an extremely interesting 1h+ chat with James from BDK about 2 strokes in general and really put me at ease about sending them off to them.

In a remarkable turn of events he also (inadvertantly) convinced me to get the heads o-ringed as well. It certainly wasn't a case of a upselling but I was convinced.

That all got packed up and sent Special delivery to them Tuesday morning.

I was slightly suprised when I got an email Wednesday morning to say that it had all arrived but....

... one of my cylinders had a steel liner fitted and was shorter than the other. Staggered that I didn't notice that when stripping them but then I was more focused on the bar steward of a stud that snapped. turns out it was the cylinder where they all came out fine too!  ::)

I think I was even more suprised when I found out that he had one on the shelf that I could buy!

So, they are handling the stud removal, replating to clearances suited to Wossners, machinging grooves in the heads for O-rings and re-pofiling the combustion chambers to correct the squish.

Not much in the way of photos of this so far but they'll be lots when they come back and I'm drooling over them.

James has sent me a teaser of one of the heads that he finished today though.

(https://i.ibb.co/KXg8Q08/3XV.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QfVxqbx)

Clock face stickers

I don't think I put anything about these in the last reply. I decided going down this route over the stickers on the lens or gearbox comverter. I bought a set ages ago from Classic Gauges here in the UK. For months I thought they were lost but turns out they had been "tidied up" but my partner. When I opened them up I was suprised to find the bits that should be white, were pink:

(https://i.ibb.co/wMj35R2/IMG-20240424-151128.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gzhHk3c)

I wondered if they'd been left in the sun but then even if they were, they shouldn't go pink. They'll hopefully see some sun "in anger" one day anway.

I found a contact email and sent of a message and Will from Classic Gauges called me. It was his Fathers business who has sadly passed away and he's no longer selling on ebay or really doing a huge amount with these at all but said that he can only assume this was a result of a bad batch of ink as he knows that he always used the best UV stable inks available.

He said he would dig out the files and get a set printed and sent out to me and the new set arrived a couple of days later. Top man Will!

He said he will still print these if people need them and advertises in Tansha (VJMC magazine). I won't post details here for the risk of naughty spammers finding it but if anyone is interested I can pass on details.

Run out of time to waffle on about other bits now but exciting teaser headline topics are:

Grips
Foam dampers
Oil pump hoses
Indicators
Loom

Haha yeah, nobody likes a red banner! ;D

Bummer about the liner, but good score with the spare!

The o-ring head is nicely done. I also had some R-heads o-ringed but only did the ring around the combustion chamber. Ideally I would have wanted to o-ring the cylinder...

Quote from: ybk on May 11, 2024, 11:04:31 PM
Haha yeah, nobody likes a red banner! ;D

Bummer about the liner, but good score with the spare!

The o-ring head is nicely done. I also had some R-heads o-ringed but only did the ring around the combustion chamber. Ideally I would have wanted to o-ring the cylinder...

Yeah I asked about that. My only other experience of o-rings for head sealing was a YZ125 I had when I tried motorcross for a year (wayyyy too scary). That has the grooves in the cylinder. IIRC James was saying that the head being generally much cheaper it makes more sense to modify that.

I guess my barrels could go back to head gaskets this way whereas if I o-ringed them they are forever more.
3xv
On another interesrting note that may have already been found, there 3D scans of a 3XV11 head and 3xv10 barrel (o-ringed cylinder on that one.) online.

You can click the 3D thumbnail and then Load in 3D viewer. If nothing else it's fun to just twirl around on the screen.

https://grabcad.com/library/yamaha-tzr-250-3xv-cylinder-3d-scan-1
https://grabcad.com/library/yamaha-tzr-250-3xv-cylinder-head-3d-scan-1

Quote from: AndyYam on May 12, 2024, 11:06:39 AM



On another interesrting note that may have already been found, there 3D scans of a 3XV11 head and 3xv10 barrel (o-ringed cylinder on that one.) online.

You can click the 3D thumbnail and then Load in 3D viewer. If nothing else it's fun to just twirl around on the screen.

https://grabcad.com/library/yamaha-tzr-250-3xv-cylinder-3d-scan-1
https://grabcad.com/library/yamaha-tzr-250-3xv-cylinder-head-3d-scan-1

Pretty cool! Those are SP barrels. Somebody must have had some spare time at work !

That was done at the University of Würzburg together with some NS400R parts..  ;)

Hehe! Small world  ;D Should have known really  :))

Yeah, that was really interesting, we got step files what would theoretically allow one to cut these cylinder out of a block of alumina (of course not really as the water passages can't be done with that ..), but one can use them to build sand cores and cast them...  ;)

Quote from: 41juergen on May 13, 2024, 01:50:32 PM
Yeah, that was really interesting, we got step files what would theoretically allow one to cut these cylinder out of a block of alumina (of course not really as the water passages can't be done with that ..), but one can use them to build sand cores and cast them...  ;)

When 3D metal print comes of age.... downloadable cylinders!

Quote from: 41juergen on May 13, 2024, 07:10:08 AM
That was done at the University of Würzburg together with some NS400R parts..  ;)

Aha! Must be fun to have access to that sort of Tech!

This year's update  ::)  ;D

Loom

I went over the the loom and marked up the various connectors. There were a few dodgy repairs and I improved these and wired in connectors for my aftermarket indicators which seem fine.

(https://i.ibb.co/V3T51Xp/IMG-20240506-171914.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nRjtGh8)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kmc1xxJ/IMG-20240506-174730.jpg) (https://ibb.co/52X7hhP)


The zeel has been wired in too  (-P)
(https://i.ibb.co/Pwtv2pr/IMG-20240527-153729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r4vRBPQ)


Clocks


I got my replacement stickers from Classic Gauges and stripped the clocks to fit them. In my excitement I overlooked the fact that I only needed to do the speedo and managed to snap the needle on the temp gauge. Had to source a 2nd hand replacment via ebay. Fortuantly the gauge is used on a few models which helped me to find one.

Nice to have mph clocks now though  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/J2DXhJM/IMG-20240602-WA0023.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y8Hvrsq)

Nose cone

When looking at my bike from the front I thought the gap above the headlight looked big and I've realsied my nose cone is from a TZR125R 4FL model. Fortuantely one of my previous impulse buys was a 2nd hand nose cone so I've got one that will go on. It's not exactly the right colours but that's for another time.

(https://i.ibb.co/NxSsjfM/IMG-20230702-100943.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2yxzNS)
Note the gap above the top of the light unit!!

Forks

I got round to taking these apart and setting the fork level with the springs in  (-P)

Engine

The engine is now built and in the bike!

The gearbox had gone in previously and so it was crank time and cases to be sealed up. My new SP crank finally made it out of my office and into the garage. I'm using Cruzin Image crank seals which looked and felt great.

(https://i.ibb.co/x2fcpyW/IMG-20240804-150828.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sg6D0hn)

All other parts went on unremarkably and was time to move on to the top end.

(https://i.ibb.co/8stqbvH/IMG-20240810-154320.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B3FbGW9)
(https://i.ibb.co/0GMSPgX/IMG-20240804-221041.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Js74Xfd)
(https://i.ibb.co/TWdZgxJ/IMG-20240804-221024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hh30HfR)

I'd got the freshly plated cylinders and o-ringed heads back from BDK.

(https://i.ibb.co/xYXqP6n/IMG-20240621-WA0010.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pQbjGdH)
(https://i.ibb.co/MG1sZrg/IMG-20240621-WA0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tb0kY6w)
(https://i.ibb.co/CntLmLz/IMG-20240621-181312.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cNvqkq1)

After reading some horror stories of people who assumed their freshly plated parts were clean and ended up with massive wear from diamond grit still on the bore that is not visible to the eye, I thouroughly washed and checked the cleanliness with clean paper and gear oil.

(https://i.ibb.co/TKNYpjc/IMG-20240824-130243.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pWkbGV2)
(https://i.ibb.co/j80ybSb/IMG-20240824-125908.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tHjqQ9Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/M6jssMh/IMG-20240824-125019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/74TXX2z)
(https://i.ibb.co/7YwSWG4/IMG-20240824-125001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cgGyFNL)
(https://i.ibb.co/hMNzRzZ/IMG-20240824-124945.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qn8QMQW)

I ended up buying all new genuine studs for the cylinders and chased all the threads before fitting with thread sealant.

(https://i.ibb.co/W3wWSMy/IMG-20240824-170314.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vBGx2TP)
(https://i.ibb.co/VHnjmcy/IMG-20240824-145831.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FsZxVLv)

I had one instance of "oh balls" when I stripped a PV bush thread but a helicoil fix has sorted that. It did feel pretty scary drilling into a cylinder that I've just had plated I must say.

(https://i.ibb.co/KDDKLyv/IMG-20240826-145149.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r33dcyr)
(https://i.ibb.co/zfJThCq/IMG-20240826-WA0014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F7VLbcR)

I also found that I was missing the retainer plate that fits over the PV oil seal on the lower cylinder and couldn't find one. @bulldogboy boy kindly traced one of his for me and the same engineering friend had a few made up at his work. They are a bit thicker that the original and so need a lower profile head for the bolts, like button head maybe, but they work!

(https://i.ibb.co/PT7rk0d/IMG-20240920-WA0005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5YN1ZwP)
(https://i.ibb.co/GQswnr2/IMG-20240916-WA0015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HTNvB9z)
(https://i.ibb.co/126ybxn/IMG-20241004-WA0035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHyr7WS)

I had a bit of fun trying to work out squish clearances and ended up having to use 2 different thickness gaskets that I ordered through Showe performance. They score 0/10 on communication and a 5/10 for consistency of materials but we got there in the end. I had a .10mm difference in the step from gasket surface to combustion chamber and similar variance in my cylinder heights I think. In all honesty I've forgotten the measurements but I was happy by then end and moved on. Somewhere around 1mm.

During the process of trying to work out why my measurements kept coming out wrong/different I enlisted the help of a friend who is a QA engineer and we took the heads into his work and did some fancy measurements using a "shadow graph" which told me the step from gasket surface was .9095mm on one and 1.0307mm on the other.

(https://i.ibb.co/TRw2K8n/IMG-20240903-214006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cvw8J7X)
(https://i.ibb.co/4SWCcd1/IMG-20240903-213805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wzn7QtV)
(https://i.ibb.co/0jv8V28/IMG-20240903-211827.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6bQnCQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Nx1fctW/IMG-20240903-WA0016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CBJ4RmV)
(https://i.ibb.co/X2q0qYc/IMG-20240903-WA0014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r7V8VdD)

I made sure to use some sealant on the base gaskets.

(https://i.ibb.co/TMjqzqV/IMG-20240914-201233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PGXzBz7)

With the reed cages and inlet manifolds on it was time to leakdown test. This did not go well and I could not get any pressure in. Eventually I realised that the inlet manifolds were not sealing at all. I spent quite a few evenings with limited time trying to get them to seal with sealant and waiting for that to cure, all to no avail. I eventually decided to try using some carfully cut pices of gasket paper over the sealing lip along with sealant and this worked! It now holds 6psi for 10 minutes plus. I do have some spares (2nd hand) on their way from Japan but I'm happy for now.

(https://i.ibb.co/37LjhcL/IMG-20241003-130019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/56fScLf)
(https://i.ibb.co/n0nYxsv/IMG-20241003-WA0003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CtMYR5Z)

The engine could then go into the frame, which felt like a big milestone for me. There's alot of stuff that goes on around the engine and so this being out of the frame meant I was limited as to what I could do each time I went in the garage.

(https://i.ibb.co/XstrxhB/IMG-20240831-195951.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9TWkHFX)
(https://i.ibb.co/nbTTMPg/IMG-20240831-195946.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f2bbdD1)

Carbs

I rebuilt the carbs with the jets etc from the Cruzin image kit too. The quality of the parts seem really good so I decided I'd go with them, against advice here so we'll see where that gets me.

Whilst checking all passages I found that the overflow tube in one of the bowls was completely blocked. It wasn't nice seeing all the dirt in what was a pristine bowl but good to check it cleared. Float heights set to 16mm. Standard jetting, new body gaskets, tourmax float valves.

I think I'm gonna stick with the stock needles for now as they look fine and the Cruzin images ones are both the same, which we know to be wrong.

I did open up the TPS to have a look inside and I don't really know what the setting/configuration of it should be so I'll probably refer to the manual when I'm closer to starting the bike.

(https://i.ibb.co/JrTVg4L/IMG-20240908-WA0006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/44Lz3Gy)
(https://i.ibb.co/3Cfn0VB/IMG-20240908-162048.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qr0vRhk)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZKwr9f2/IMG-20240908-161233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wCbqtdc)
(https://i.ibb.co/D7BJ3Sn/IMG-20240908-152723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q6Wgs1G)
(https://i.ibb.co/7b7975Z/IMG-20240908-152717.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6snspf)
(https://i.ibb.co/FHmxtQg/IMG-20240908-151906.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MBZ2LzM)
(https://i.ibb.co/QJ6y54H/IMG-20240908-151856.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hgK3qSd)
(https://i.ibb.co/KbyyVN7/IMG-20240908-144908.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zQffP8b)
(https://i.ibb.co/9wb5WGJ/IMG-20240908-142649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3fpZckw)
(https://i.ibb.co/gVg4ph2/IMG-20240826-173306.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fv0D5Lg)

Chain and Sprockets

I ordered a "kit" from M&P and never got round to fitting it. I've now found out that the only useable part is the chain as both the sprockets are not right. I've tried to explain to them but they just wanted to say "We've sold 9 kits and no one else has complained" and are adamanent that the sprocket they are selling fits the 3XV. A shame as they always provided great service but something has changed.

I ended up buying a TZ rear from Dennis Trollope Racing via ebay and a front from elsewhere on ebay too I think. The rear needed the holes drilling out as mentioned elsewhere on the forum.

(https://i.ibb.co/cwSmWTq/IMG-20241002-154850.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Qd93yh)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZNQ8KgW/Screenshot-2024-10-02-11-21-09-128-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XVnsp5S)


Brakes

I figured I could get the brakes all fitted and bled but during that process couldn't find the brake pad support clips/plates/thingys... Looking back through photos it looks like they never came with the bike. After some research and cross referencing I eventually worked out that the Yamaha Blue spot calipers use the same pads and a very similar looking support pad. @thump566 to the rescue as his R1 has these calipers on and he went above and beyond to take the support plates out of both that and his 3xv to compare. Thanks again mate! Just after this a facebook poster also confirmed that these support plates can be used with some material removed from each corner. Wemoto do them new for £15 each plus postage but I ended up buying a set of blue spot calipers with them fitted. I've also since seen that there is a post about how many Triumphs run nissin and very similar calipers too.

(https://i.ibb.co/3k7fXxw/IMG-20240601-181117.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wYRJHnT)
(https://i.ibb.co/QM9h0rK/IMG-20240601-181112.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9WnBPsr)
(https://i.ibb.co/GnZbSXV/Screenshot-2024-10-19-23-08-05-758-com-android-chrome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FmQjT9B)
(https://i.ibb.co/n7zp1LX/Screenshot-2024-10-20-11-07-58-675-edit-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/48PkSVb)

When I originally fitted my front discs hadn't chased any of the threads since the powercoating and naively went and wrenched the bolts in. Some were even sitting proud and the allen heads rounded from the cheap metal. I knew I needed to resolve this and finally, with some encouragement from my engineering friend I used direct heat and a torx bit hammered in to remove them. He then pointed me towards vital-parts.co.uk to order some torx head A-2 SS bolts. With the threads chased these are now holding the discs on tightly and I can sleep better  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/1dNXRkV/IMG-20241004-WA0037.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YLS4Hy)

Rear tyre

Finally got round to taking the read wheel down to the local petrol station and using their tyre inflator to get the tyre to sit. Took 54psi.

Foot pegs

I bought a set of virtually new rider footpegs from a later Yamaha that uses the 3XV pegs.

(https://i.ibb.co/zr0VPf1/IMG-20241027-WA0011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FKj4879)

Fuel

I was planning on just running E5 and not worrying about it but the more things progress and the money and time spent has increased I decided I'd join the RSUR club  ;D @jamietzr250r @bulldogboy @SouthCoastRich .

(https://i.ibb.co/DL9mC5b/IMG-20241026-170738.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4J8CTPf)

Cover

My garage is not the driest/warmest enviroment and I'm only a few miles from the sea so I decided to buy a Vehicle dome cover. It runs a fan to keep the cover inflated and has a filter. I'll have disposable dehudifiers inside too and it's nice and easy to unwrap it to work on it then put it back in after.

(https://i.ibb.co/YXyXZ9q/IMG-20241026-WA0012-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/42Y2dy5)

What's next?

Fit the brake pad plates and bleed the full brake system.
Check the Variable air jets are clear (Not sure if I need to do this? thoughts?)
Fit the carb tops with new gaskets and route the throttle cable.
Fit the cooling system (I've deciced to go with Evans waterless coolant).
...lots more I can't think of right now....

That's some proper progress  8) Those o-ring heads are awesome. I like the bike bubble as well ;D I'm also close to the sea so eveything rusts :/

Great update, also loving the heads  :)  (-P)

Great progress mate! Glad you're on the wagon too (no ethanol in your fuel!!!)

That leak down tester is doing the rounds eh?  :))

I feel like I'm on the home straight now but I'd felt like that for a while so I'll remain stoic but determined and just keep going.

The reason I have time to update this is because I've strained my back and can't do much else right now but maybe that's all part of the plan.

The TL;DR version is that the engine is now running and bar a few niggly bits it's ready for it's MOT. I have obtained a dating certificate via thr VJMC and so will be ready to send off a V55/5 for registration.

(https://i.ibb.co/67JYztZW/IMG-20250517-160314.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XrkX154C)
(https://i.ibb.co/m509btkW/IMG-20250517-160126.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fd9kqtfw)

Picking up from where I left on the last post I had these as my next jobs:

Fit the brake pad plates and bleed the full brake system.
Check the Variable air jets are clear (Not sure if I need to do this? thoughts?)
Fit the carb tops with new gaskets and route the throttle cable.
Fit the cooling system (I've deciced to go with Evans waterless coolant).
...lots more I can't think of right now....

The brake pad retaining clips went in fine after a small bit of grinding on the corners. I've bled the whole system and all is good. The front maybe feels a little softer than I expected but until I can test it on the road I won't know if it's just be me. The MOT will no doubt show up anything there.

I didn't open or check the VAJs, deciding to wait til I see how it runs and go from there. More on running later.

Carb tops went on with the brand new gaskets that that came with the Cruzin Image rebuild kits. Now...remember this for later on as Gotcha No.1... :P

I fit the cooling system including the Thermostat to Rad joint...remember this bit as Gotcha No.2....All topped up with waterless coolant.

I mentioned indicators prior, in that I bought some aftermarket units after struggling to find some reasonably priced 2nd hand units. I had to extend the tiny little wires they had on them but other than that they are fine in terms of quality and even came with bulbs. They fit fine and all work, albeit flashing a bit fast but who cares about that eh? Gotcha No.3....

After fitting these and testing them I noticed the headlight and taillight wasn't coming on. I'd seem them work before so I was confused and assumed a bad connection in the loom somewhere but couldn't find it anywhere.

A long story short after checking Earths etc etc I decided to take the switchgear apart. I had totally forgotten that I had sprayed a load of white lithium grease inside thinking it was safe for electrics and would be good at keeping it all protected. Turns out this is not a good idea and so after cleaning all that off with contact cleaner, the lights work again. Lesson learnt...

(https://i.ibb.co/gFzSsqvn/IMG-20250517-160529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3YBpt6fJ)

At this point I was working towards an initial engine start with Airboxes and Exhausts be required. As previously mentioned I nabbed a set of Jackals from Fastline Superbikes via ebay and after an initial look over of the fresh paint they wen't back in their box and were stashed since then (Jan 2024 I think).

So when I took them out it was a little sickening to see big junks of rust fall out from the inside when I inadvertently knocked one on a toolbox in the garage. Giving them box some heavy shaking and lots more came out. Realising this is not the sort of stuff I want sucked back into my cylinders I knew I needed to clean them out. I opted for an initial rinse with hot water an detergent and the results were pretty shocking.

Water sprayed out of pin holes on both pipes. Holes which were full of paint so obviously were present prior to the painting. I then gave them a full overnight internal soaking in white vinegar, wrapping the holes with electrical tape. Again, plenty of flakes of rust and probably burnt 2stroke, came out.

I eventually got through to Fastline and have to say they were very good about it. After me showing some photos to prove the holes were there prior to the paint and therefore at time of sale, we agreed on a partial refund. For now I've used some JB weld to fill the holes but the stuff isn't high enough temp so will need a proper fix at a later date.

Whilst this was going on I saw MellorP still had his damaged Jackals up for sale and so I bought those, in case I needed to send these ones bag to Fastline if we couldn't come to an agreement so I now have those as spares which I'll also be repairing.

With the Fastline pipes all plugged up they were ready to fit. Original metal crush gaskets for the flanges and some grease on the o-rings where they slip on. Maybe there should be silicone sealant on the o-rings or is the spring pressure enough to create a seal? Thoughts welcome.

(https://i.ibb.co/zTfztW4j/Screenshot-2025-04-03-10-57-09-509-com-facebook-katana-edit.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5gcPJXRt)
(https://i.ibb.co/DfkC0hwJ/Screenshot-2025-03-28-11-55-50-879-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4628FkT)
(https://i.ibb.co/pjBtS0Tf/IMG-20250328-105526.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DfHxZVF9)
(https://i.ibb.co/HLZqdRX2/IMG-20250330-152757.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wZt4s8YL)
(https://i.ibb.co/NgwY4CZn/IMG-20250329-163712.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zWKfkxGH)
(https://i.ibb.co/932w2fpK/IMG-20250329-162032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h1HXHngQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/RGnhgLxw/IMG-20250329-155627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p6DW1CtF)
(https://i.ibb.co/HTbMnh3z/IMG-20250329-155612.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7tZT2kLW)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZptMZHZ2/IMG-20250328-114152.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B5dC141n)
(https://i.ibb.co/S4V37fqD/IMG-20250328-113509.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XrFCkYmf)


Whilst fitting the pipes I was a bit confused about the attachment on the left hand side (rear/upper cylinder pipe) at the back of the fairing. Upon review of the manuals I see that again I'm missing a bracket. Part no 16 in the manual as it is now infamously named between me and Thump who, once again saved the day and sent me his spare. I've vowed to return it to him one day!

This connects to the fairing bracket which is riveted to the fairing. I had a repro of this which BullDogBoy sent me in the early days of this thread but also found an original in some spare brackets I ordered in my various late night yahoo auctions stints.

(https://i.ibb.co/8yDH4v5/Screenshot-2025-05-09-20-31-20-772-com-whatsapp.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cj5fsC7)


On the other side of the engine, the air boxes had a general clean up and new filters fitted and they had had a prior test fit at the point the carbs went on so I knew everything lined up. This related to Gotcha No.2 so stay with me on that!

(https://i.ibb.co/bmxh0wh/IMG-20240324-181452.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9G12q1)
(https://i.ibb.co/QpyBBnk/IMG-20240324-190039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JmDLL2q)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYVVQYK/IMG-20240324-190046.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4xxY4F)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ny5vCRL/IMG-20240324-190048.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6KLjk5)

Ok so now we're ready to go. Tank was primed with some 40:1 premix ()I'm using RSUR and Castrol Power1 R.

Fuel tap on and no leaks.

Oil pump lines are primed.

Basic carb syncing done with lolly sticks (popsicle sticks for US readers) in the Venturi, under the slides and throttle twisting to see they open at the same time.

Idles set to nothing so all on the hand for now.

Free play in twist grip adjusted to 3-5mm IIRC?

Choke operation checked.


So it started! Woohoo!

That was short lived by the ever increasing revs despite very little throttle as you see. It was the lower cylinder pushing the revs higher and higher whilst the upper (rear) dragged along so at least I knew which side to look.

Next was to investigate this which had to be an air leak with the most likely culprit being the inlet manifolds. I forget what I've shared so far but I had a b1**h of a time getting a seal on these during my leak down testing. I did end up ordering a 2nd set from Japan but managed to get a seal before they arrived with 6 psi holding so decided to leave it all well alone. Now I was wishing I didn't though.

But after starting her again and quickly spraying carb cleaner around the likely leak areas I got no change. I checked everywhere and Thump556 was kindly offering to send down his leak down test kit again to help but my gut was telling me it wasn't going to help.

I decided if it wasn't an air leak from inlets on then it must be something wrong in the carb. Both had been fully rebuild with new gaskets, jets etc all round. They'd been vapour blasted, ultra sonically cleaned  and kissed and stroked so I was pretty p1***d at them/it. As many will know, once the rad is on and the TPS wiring, VAJ hose, drain pipes, choke cable and fuel hose are all connected it's a bit fiddly getting it out again but it had to happen. Whilst doing this I suddenly noticed some light in place where light should not be....between the top of the carb and the body. Or more precisely between the top gasket and the carb. Whaaaaaa????

I checked the screws and they were tight so this baffled me. Upon taking it all off I eventually realised that the carb top gaskets are different between carbs due to the TPS carb top having 2 little tangs (I dunno what the word is?). Welcome to Gotcha No.1. My brand new gasket from the Cruzin Image kit was wrong. The kits are identical which is basically wrong. I may try to feed this back when I have time but I wouldn't let this put me off. The quality of the parts are great and pricing too and the mistake was really mine for not noticing.

For now the original has gone back in and thankfully the air leak was gone and revs no longer tried to get as high as SnoopDogg.

(https://i.ibb.co/PGNjvxkd/Screenshot-2025-04-06-20-19-03-204-com-alibaba-aliexpresshd.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5GTVJp3)

At this point for various reasons the only time I had available was late in the evening. In terraced housing with neighbours with young children, revving a 2 stroke late a night in a garage 20ft from their windows is not an option so I was onto jobs like fairings. I rough fitted all that I have. They are tatty, wrong colours and the seat unit is missing some mounting tabs under the pillion. There are cracks in various places and the headlight cowl is painted all Red and someone has filled and re drilled mirror mount holes in the wrong place. But hey, this is what I have for now and mechanical completeness is far more important to me than looks (I try to tell my partner this too XD ).

I ended up buying a fairing bolt kit from Speedy Fastners in the UK via eBay and it's a nice kit. All Allen head but they do also do a kit for £15-20 more with the DSUZ?? Screws and brackets. Quick release I think?

Everything lined up fairing well and my rear pipe bracket got riveted on and persuaded into the position it needed to meet the infamous No.16 bracket.

I had bought a few spare bits off eBay a while back including a V piece, left hand fairing and front mudguard so they went on too.

(https://i.ibb.co/cSy7rsXK/Screenshot-2025-01-12-19-57-59-201-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DH1SRjgP)
(https://i.ibb.co/GQC1Hsft/Screenshot-2025-01-12-19-57-52-208-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zzcw2HRY)
(https://i.ibb.co/5NR9Drj/Screenshot-2025-01-12-19-57-47-594-com-ebay-mobile.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w9zLHSQ)

I noticed how close the pipes get to the fairing and so ordered some fibreglass reinforced heat shielding and have fit this to the key areas on the left fairing so far. Nice stuff to work without actually as long as you have a sharp blade.

(https://i.ibb.co/vxnGrdd0/IMG-20250517-012521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0jbSW99H)
(https://i.ibb.co/NgjvwHYG/IMG-20250516-222916.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0pM7PdJz)

Ok so now we have a running engine and fairings that will fit, it's time to actually sync the carbs. I know there is a lot of debate about the use of Dyno's for this but my view is that 2 strokes have been tuned for many a year before the Dyno became a viable option. I'm not trying to squeeze every HP from my engine. The only people I'll be racing are Thump, SouthCoastRich, Jamie, BullDogBoy and Chippy and if I wanna win, I'll just shout "look a Vegan" and most of them will go charging off for a fight. J/K! But no, I'm happy with a a smooth reliable machine that will last and I genuinely believe I can get that with basic garage tools. None more basic than a U bend of clear pipe filled with 2 stroke oil. Yes a "manometer"!

I had a go at this on my own, connecting the 2 ends of the pipes to the YEIS chamber stubs in the inlet and then, once warm, adjusting the idles to equal out the vacuum from each cylinder. As the levels of fluid change in either side of the U you can see which cylinder is sucking more and adjust to counter this. I got it pretty good on the levels but it still didn't sound as good as I expected but left it like this at this point and moved on.

(https://i.ibb.co/p6159r1r/Screenshot-2025-05-23-at-16-53-56.png) (https://ibb.co/HLK3kpKp)

I was now ready to fit all the airboxes and start thinking about fairings but as I tried to fit the lower airbag boot to the carb it just wouldn't line up right. Confused as I had already checked this remember...but it simply wasn't right. Either the top of the bottom of the airbox to boot would be wrong, depending on the rotation of the boot on the carb. Thinking logically and realising the airbox has one position It had to be the carb and it was. It was rotated clockwise a bit too much in the inlet manifold. I loosened the clamp and tried rotating it back but it was not moving. The cable ...errr....tube... from the top of the TPS was pressed right against the solid thermostat pipe that links to the Rad. Here we are at gotcha No.2.

I had my throttle cable routed to the wrong side of that pipe. It should come our of the junction box, loop round and then hug the inner of the frame, inside the guide on the thermo bracket and then down the right hand side (if looking from a rider perspective) of the thermo to rad pipe. With all my cables in place, coolant in etc the only place to disconnect was at the junction box. I hate that thing...but I did it and didn't lose the spring or break anything only to find now the same throttle tube bit on the top of the carb was pressed against the other side of the thermo pipe and preventing the carb sitting in it's locating groove on the inlet, just now it's the other side. FML...

After probably an hour of analysing with support from Dad we decided we'd drain down the coolant and take the thermo and bracket off and see if it was bent. If it was then it would be pointing that pipe in the slightest wrong direction, exactly where the cable top needed to be. After draining the coolant and releasing the clamp where that solid pipe joins the rubber hose, the whole thing had enough play to move back a few mm and the carb fit fine. So the issue was basically that I'd tightened the rubber hose too far on to the solid pipe and those 4-5mm made all the difference.

Working out the issue is great, thinking about the time wasted on it is not...

Ok so anyone thinking about this will realise what impact me having to disconnect that throttle cable will have....my carb sync work is now undone. I had to release all cable play to remove the cable from the junction box....and the junction box also seems to have some teeth on the little white pulley where the 2 carb cables go into, meaning once tightening the free play in the carb tops needs to be adjusted again.

I did that and did my basic physical carb slide sync with my lollipop sticks and then called Dad again. He's had great success in helping friends in the local VJMC sync their carbs with this rudemntary bit of kit and he has more patience than me with waiting for things to level out after each adjustment.

He also highlighted that there are 2 blanked off stubs on the inlet side of both carbs that can be used for the vacuum, meaning I didn't need to remove the YEIS. This is obviously a big benefit as it means the YEIS can do its thing and I'll be getting more accurate readings on the levels.

 We set it up, warmed the bike up and within minutes she was sounding great. However... blips on the throttle were causing bogging whilst Idle was smooth as butter, hmmm.

Back to basics.

I know the jets are fine and right. I was very careful at checking those. I know the jackals may want a big more main but I also know of 2 bikes running jackals on stock and they both sound and ride lovely.
I know the needle position is correct.
I know the float height is correct.
I know I checked the air screw setting and that it should be 1 and 1/2 turns out but that's an easy one to double check.
I load up the manual to be sure and it's a face palm moment as I read that the rear carb should be 2 turns out and not 1 and 1/2.

Checking it I find it is 1 and 1/2.. Doh!

With both now set correctly we fire her up again and the levels in the manometer are off. This is good news. We tweak the idles some more and decide on the idle sounding nice at around 1900-2k on the clocks (Zeel reporting 1800-1900 interestingly).

The manual states 1300 but from videos of others and just by sound and feel, that didn't seem right.

I'm happy with this for now considering it's only had 2-3 heat and cool cycles and never been run under load yet. Once the engine is actually run in I'll return to this and do another sync.

Now it's case of getting it MOT ready and Dad threw a spanner in the works when he pointed out that the indicator flash rate was too high. I had no idea there was a limit but turns out in the UK they must be between 60 and 120 flashes per minute.

So why are mine way faster?

All of the suggestions online pointed towards either a bad Relay or a bad earth. I hate electrics so I was hoping it was the relay. I had one from an FZS600 which I tried but got the same result.

I started checking Earth with my cheapo multimeter and the readings were suggesting the earth wasn't great.

On 200 ohm setting, touching the earth wire in the relay connector block (black) to the earth point on the reg/Rec I saw 3.6, dropping down to 0.8 at best.

A bit more googling and another suggestions was that the bulbs were too low Wattage. The relay requires more resistance to control the flash rate. Gotcha No.3...

The bulbs in there were 10W and this seems to be stock so it seemed odd but after putting 21w bulbs (too big to put the lens covers on but ok for a test) in the flash rate was correct.

So I ended up ordering a pack of BA15S short globe 23W bulbs, which took some finding. In the mean time I totally forgot that I had ordered a replacement relay and when that turned up I looked back on eBay and found that it is one designed to work with LEDs and as such has a controlled flash rate of 90 per minute. It's plug and play other than the mounting point so I'll go with that. It also does not have the clicking sound of course as it's not thermal controlled like the stock one.

...and that is where I'm at now. I've probably forgotten a load of bits I'd done in between too.

I now need to go round and check torque settings and get the fairings all back on but I'm essentially ready for an MOT. I'm technically booked in tomorrow at 1030 but I've stuff my back and so don't think I'm going to make it which means another week.

Nice progress (-P) The to-do list never really reaches zero I found  ;D

I had the same issue with pinholes in my DFR pipes, in exactly the same spot. Crazy how they rust considering they spend their live covered in oil.. I had mine welded, couldn't get it to seal with other solutions.

Keep at it 8)

Quote from: ybk on May 25, 2025, 03:32:33 AMNice progress (-P) The to-do list never really reaches zero I found  ;D

I had the same issue with pinholes in my DFR pipes, in exactly the same spot. Crazy how they rust considering they spend their live covered in oil.. I had mine welded, couldn't get it to seal with other solutions.

Keep at it 8)

Yeah good point! To be fair though I'd not really want it to. I think a big part of the charm of these sort of bikes is that you can become initmately connected with them through all the regular maintenance and each job signposts you to the next!

I'd be bored if I never had to do anything I think, although i'll take a happy medium right now.

Based on where the rust is it must be where they've sat for time and condensation has built up and pooled at the bottom.

Mine will be living in a vehicle dome bubble once compelete with a dehumidifer inside with in and I also have exhaust bungs (Can be seen in the photos of the pipe cleaning), so I'm hoping to not have this issue again.

I do live only a few miles from the Sea so I have that to contend with too.

Do you mean patches of e poxy kept coming off? So far they all look fine but she's not really been up to temp properly yet.

Quote from: AndyYam on May 26, 2025, 07:33:24 PMYeah good point! To be fair though I'd not really want it to. I think a big part of the charm of these sort of bikes is that you can become initmately connected with them through all the regular maintenance and each job signposts you to the next!

I'd be bored if I never had to do anything I think, although i'll take a happy medium right now.

Mine will be living in a vehicle dome bubble once compelete with a dehumidifer inside with in and I also have exhaust bungs (Can be seen in the photos of the pipe cleaning), so I'm hoping to not have this issue again.

I'm with you on that! If the project runs out our I'd be bored to death! :))

I'm also at sea level and the fight against corrosion is tiring!

Quote from: AndyYam on May 26, 2025, 07:33:24 PMDo you mean patches of e poxy kept coming off? So far they all look fine but she's not really been up to temp properly yet.

Tried a different brand that didn't 'stick' properly. Also tried different solder types and different techniques that looked like it sealed properly. After a spirited ride oil was seeping out..there must be more pressure inside the pipe than I thought. Gave it to someone to weld so I can forget about it and move on to the next item  :))

I'm also at sea level and the fight against corrosion is tiring!

So I didn't go the MOT I had booked. My back said no chance so I re booked for the following Saturday (just gone) and...

..MOT passed! Woohoo!

All the paperwork has now gone off to the DVLA/DVSA for registration here in the UK...

...and now we wait...

I ended up trailering the bike up there because prior I had taken it for a few goes round the block and it was hard to pull away. It felt like it was going to stall but after that it pulled fine.

I thought that meant rich but after a bit of a chat with ChatGPT the best suggestion was that it was lean and to turn in the mixture screws 1/4 turn to see if it improved.

1/4 turn on both improved it a bit so went another 1/4 on each and it was completely gone and smooth to come off pilots.

I'll probably leave it like for now but get some larger pilots on order.

I'm running completely stock jetting, Zeel and Jackals which I know Thump is too so I know it's a safe base point.

I'll do some plug chops (not WOT ofc) once I have the bike on the road, just to check jetting on pilots and needle and keep an eye during the run in which hopfully I'll get through fairly quick if we have good weather in the evenings after work once I have a numberplate.

Hi Andy, Chris (Artful) who spoke with you at the recent Boxhill meet.

Have just spent the evening reading through your project mate from the start, Wow! what a journey! From talking with you I didn't realize just how much work you'd done over that period of time. You must have been soo happy to join the lads at Rykas on Sunday. That brief "first start" video is great, I was nervous for you lol.

I've been taking notes as I read through these threads - so much useful information - am really grateful to you (and the others that I'm yet to read) for taking the time to record these projects in such detail, it's inspiring.

Recon I'll be taking a peek under my (very dusty) dust sheets at the back of my garage at the weekend, I can definitely feel a future project brewing!

Cheers, C

Quote from: Artful on July 03, 2025, 01:07:21 AMHi Andy, Chris (Artful) who spoke with you at the recent Boxhill meet.

Have just spent the evening reading through your project mate from the start, Wow! what a journey! From talking with you I didn't realize just how much work you'd done over that period of time. You must have been soo happy to join the lads at Rykas on Sunday. That brief "first start" video is great, I was nervous for you lol.

I've been taking notes as I read through these threads - so much useful information - am really grateful to you (and the others that I'm yet to read) for taking the time to record these projects in such detail, it's inspiring.

Recon I'll be taking a peek under my (very dusty) dust sheets at the back of my garage at the weekend, I can definitely feel a future project brewing!

Cheers, C

I have a feeling that a quick spin on another 3XV last year also added a little fuel to his fire  :-X 

wow, what a journey. Just picked up a 3XV and this is one of the first posts I've read all the way through. Great to see the detail of all the work, esp the engine. Congrats on getting it back up and running.

Cheers, Russ

just had a scout through this as just picked up a 3xv from worthing  ( i live in eastsussex) its a real dog, having read ur project and seeing how long its taken im inspired and scared , if your heading to brighton burn up next month on it id love to take a look and chat.

Quote from: leigh_boy on August 06, 2025, 10:54:35 PMjust had a scout through this as just picked up a 3xv from worthing  ( i live in eastsussex) its a real dog, having read ur project and seeing how long its taken im inspired and scared , if your heading to brighton burn up next month on it id love to take a look and chat.

Hi @leigh_boy,

Yup I saw that one and tried to make contact with the owner, just to chat, but got no reply, so I'm glad to see it's going on to be restored by someone who'll appreciate it! It was me who commented on your FB post about making the Youtube link shareable in the comments. I've yet to watch any, sort of saving it for a treat  ;D  and very much looking forward to it.

Feel free to pm me with a number as I'm always happy to chat on whatsapp. I'm pretty sure I've covered most of what I encountered in the thread... and that covers a fraction of a % of the knowledge that exists on here and 99% of what I learnt also came from here!

I have quite a lot of links and notes about the parts I ordered and pricing of things. As mentioned throughout I did not use all OEM parts for things like bearings and seals where there really is no need, but spent lots of time sourcing the best options in those instances.

I doubt I'll be at the burn up but there will be another pure2strokespirit meet up at boxhill on the 21st which I'm planning on attending. I'll probably go to the Chalet, cowfold and ride up from there.

I've not posted an update on here since but I've now covered 500km so able to open her up a bit more with a bit more confidence and loving every second of that.

I've also fitted the marlboro fairing kit that came with it and am very happy with that; far more than exppected.

(https://i.ibb.co/gbL4yqsm/tzrsolo.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XfrYX0mj)

Quote from: Russ_3XV on July 30, 2025, 11:19:30 PMwow, what a journey. Just picked up a 3XV and this is one of the first posts I've read all the way through. Great to see the detail of all the work, esp the engine. Congrats on getting it back up and running.

Cheers, Russ

Thanks Russ,

Much appreciated it. It's very nice to be in this position now. It's been a journey. Looking forward to seeing and hearing about yours. Is it in need of work or all ready to go? Clue...the latter option is never really an option  ;D  :P  >:D

Quote from: AndyYam on August 19, 2025, 09:51:42 AM

Quote from: leigh_boy on August 06, 2025, 10:54:35 PMjust had a scout through this as just picked up a 3xv from worthing  ( i live in eastsussex) its a real dog, having read ur project and seeing how long its taken im inspired and scared , if your heading to brighton burn up next month on it id love to take a look and chat.

Hi @leigh_boy,

Yup I saw that one and tried to make contact with the owner, just to chat, but got no reply, so I'm glad to see it's going on to be restored by someone who'll appreciate it! It was me who commented on your FB post about making the Youtube link shareable in the comments. I've yet to watch any, sort of saving it for a treat  ;D  and very much looking forward to it.

Feel free to pm me with a number as I'm always happy to chat on whatsapp. I'm pretty sure I've covered most of what I encountered in the thread... and that covers a fraction of a % of the knowledge that exists on here and 99% of what I learnt also came from here!

I have quite a lot of links and notes about the parts I ordered and pricing of things. As mentioned throughout I did not use all OEM parts for things like bearings and seals where there really is no need, but spent lots of time sourcing the best options in those instances.

I doubt I'll be at the burn up but there will be another pure2strokespirit meet up at boxhill on the 21st which I'm planning on attending. I'll probably go to the Chalet, cowfold and ride up from there.

I've not posted an update on here since but I've now covered 500km so able to open her up a bit more with a bit more confidence and loving every second of that.

I've also fitted the marlboro fairing kit that came with it and am very happy with that; far more than exppected.

(https://i.ibb.co/gbL4yqsm/tzrsolo.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XfrYX0mj)

ah !!! cheers Andy, i might make boxhill on the RGV il drop you a pm with my number

(https://i.ibb.co/gbL4yqsm/tzrsolo.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XfrYX0mj)


Looks awesome mate, can't wait to see it in person  8)

Unfortunately she's now regressed to the project stage.

On the way to Boxhill last Sunday under load everything went loud momentarily almost as if the pipe had come off then jumped back on.

I rolled off the throttle and clutched and everything felt fine amnd sounded fine again so rode on to Boxhill with the other 5 riders in the group.

As I was leaving I looked to see if I could see anything obvious that woudl mean recovery and noticed that the springs holding the upper cylinders pipe to the flanges was snapped. Discussed with a couple of guys there and decided probably metal fatigue and would explain the noise so decided to nurse it home but planning to stop if it got too loud.

When I got home I pulled the pipe and took the oppurtunity to look up the port and noticed this:

(https://i.ibb.co/8n3GycGd/IMG-20250921-160852.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rKPqBsqc)

No not the vertical lines on the bore, I think that's just where it's still running in. The big crack in the middle of the powervalve.

After some thinking and removal of the pulley side of it and inspect I think this was caused by 2 things:

1. There was too much play in the bronze bush in the holder.
2. My PVs have been ground down.

Luckily I'd recently nabbed a miss-identified cylinder on ebay and it had the valve in (no holders though) and when comparing with my broken half I suddenly noticed the lack of the part number casting on my broken one.

(https://i.ibb.co/jvzxCQMY/Screenshot-2025-09-29-19-11-13-159-com-miui-gallery.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3yv8xjNb)

I've since gone back and looked at my build photos and realise that both have been ground down to some extent.

(https://i.ibb.co/GR7gwt1/IMG-20240414-171228.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PgxBp9b)

I know that people do reprofile the valve to match port jobs so I guess that alone shouldn't be the issue but the play (possibly uneven play) probably was a big factor.

@bulldogboy has kindly supplied me with a set of holders and I'm going to get 4 new bushes made up for now and hope my other valve is ok. If anyone has a spare valve they'd sell then please pm me!

They came out easily with a blind bearing puller. The end of the puller needed to be squeezed to fit in but as they're being replaced and will be pressed back it's not an issue.

(https://i.ibb.co/67NQFyK4/Screenshot-2025-09-29-19-11-24-253-com-miui-gallery.jpg)
 (https://ibb.co/DHLdQ1B7)(https://i.ibb.co/wNmfGSf9/Screenshot-2025-09-29-19-11-19-126-com-miui-gallery.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4ZrHv8H6)

I'm also going to look to see if I can find someone who would be interested in making up machined valves. There seem to be options for thr 350 ypvs engine so might be viable for someone with the tooling ready to go.

So yeah, my assumption is that the valve snapping causes a shockwave through the pipe that caused the ends of the springs to snap, which suggests my other side is ok still.

Will update once I know but waiting to get the new bushes made before I finish stripping so that it can be done in one session.

I feel for you.
Glad you got home safely.
Ironically the dt125lc MK3 PV head has a two part power valve that is supposed to split in the middle, held together with through bolts and dowels(if I remember)...

(https://i.ibb.co/84mmRb2g/Screenshot-20251002-211802-Chrome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VpLLhxDY)

(https://i.ibb.co/Q3q51rxc/Screenshot-20251002-211605-System-UI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dw3hzGHc)

So if you thinking of tooling for a new one then maybe this design as it wouldn't involve pullers etc....

Man that's bad luck :( Someone had quite a go at those valves the riffler file..

Much better than cylinder damage so that's the bright side at least