3xv: Project Phoenix

[SeaR1ck]

Are trying to say it has a cracked area on the swingarm?

[Steveog]

Thanks for the quick response, guys.

Warwick - Checking the linkage bearings and seals are next. I'm sure the seals should be replaced. Based on the swinger, I'm betting the bearings, too. The linkage bolts all came out clean. Everything, except the weld spot, was in my budget planning. Sorry, but the pic of the weld damage is the best of the lot. There are clean breaks at the end of the bead. Very odd.

Rick - There is no evidence of a crack in the swing arm aluminum. The weld was broken off "clean" with the surrounding area gouged. Not deep, but obviously after it had been painted. We may be in bizzaro-world trying to figure how this could happen. A weld bead should not just break away from the underlying castings. I'm at a loss to explain. I have other pics, but this one is the best, I believe.

My plan is to get it welded up and move on. Any reason to be more concerned?

Thanks, again.

Steve

[ybk]

Must have been some water in the swingarm pivot for a long time..glad you got it out.

That swingarm looks normal to me, they have some gaps in the welding if I recall correctly (ie, it's not welded to be a sealed unit)..

[Steveog]

Thanks, Ybk. Yes. After looking closely at the other side where it's welded, it's obvious my issue is not as it should be.

I will proceed to blasting the swing arm clean and seek an aluminum welding specialist. I have a client that can offer such services, will take one-off jobs, but isn't cheap.

I'm taking the frame and swinger to blasters tomorrow.

[Steveog]

Now that the bike is mostly apart, I'm going to ask for opinions on an earlier discovery.

When I was taking the clutch apart, I discovered that the drive hub had a significant amount of free play. The video shows how far it could be turned before moving the engine internals in either direction.

With the bike mostly disassembled, this would be a good time to address this issue, assuming this needs addressing. I only noticed any drive-line lash while riding, when the bike was bucking a bit a low throttle, leaving or coming back to the paddock. Once the carburation was cleaned up, this "lash" was no longer noticeable.

I cannot see anything in the gearbox that would cause this kind of "free play", but again, this may be normal. When running, the bike shifted easily and smoothly with only a noticeable "clunk" on initial engagement coming out of neutral.

All opinions are welcomed. 

Thanks.

[enduras_wr200]

  Hi there mate, I don't think this freeplay is a problem. It is not a freeplay. You should be able to turn it all around countless times me thinks. It's the outside basket that has the gear. If both the hub and the basket turned together there would be constant mesh, not clutch. I just woke up from a night shift, so maybe I'm completely wrong, some others will help set the matter straight! :-)


   Cheers, Fanis

[casal-fan]

Dog gears engagement mate
Dont know if there is any gears on the 3XV box that "bypass" the dog gears so that only mesh gears engage, (don´t think so)
Not a problem, just how the gerabox is built I´d say, but please notice this is only my opinion
Someone with more knowledge then me on the subject will probably shim in soon and clarify.

By the way, in the USA, there are repports of people reducing the number of dogs by half on the RD/RZ350 gearbox, together with superfinish and machining of the shift "star" leading to absurd low ignition cut of time for changing gear - practically seemless shift.

[Steveog]

Casual Fan. Thanks. I've just returned from my shop and discovered you are absolutely right. The engine was obviously still in gear from my trying to get the primary drive nut free. Pretty embarrassed to have asked that question. I've been riding bikes with sequential transmissions for 45 years. Just haven't had the clutch that far apart since my dirt-bike days. Thanks again.

I've just been in the tranny, as you must take the gear clusters out of the casing to pull the internal oil filter. One of the three screws that holds the filter housing must be addressed at an angle if the gears are still in place. If not, it might be stripped. Don't ask how I know. (See Pic) I say all that to comment on your mention of modifying the engagement dogs for faster shifting. Very intriguing idea. The RZ-350 was the last 2T street legal bike imported to the US. The boys that have them bought them at a reasonable price. Glad to hear a bit of American engineering creativity is still churning. While I'm not able to afford such a mod at the moment, further intel would be interesting.

For those in position to dig into the tranny case, please check the oil filer. ybk encouraged me to do so. He was right. The screens were mucked up. Pic attached. Yes, that a insect.

[Steveog]

It's Sunday here. Did some clean-up more than process, but did discover a slight lash in some of the gears on the splines of the transmission shafts. I have no intention of replacing the gears nor spined shafts. The bike shifted beautifully since the first ride.

Cleaned main drive sprocket. It's worn a bit. Tempted to go with 14/39. Non-O-Ring chain. Aluminum rear sprocket. Opinions?

Included a new pic. My wife found this low-depth gavinized steel pan that has become my working benchtop surface. Highly recommended for strength and contolling spills.

The frame goes to blasting tomorrow.

[Warwick]

A new chain and sprockets always feels nice. I generally go for 15/38 final drive myself. A little taller than stock, so a smidge more top speed, and so long as you have a bit more grunt than stock it's a good base setting I reckon.

TZ rear sprockets are a straight bolt-on when you open up the mounting bolts from 8 to 10 mm so plenty of options there. The front is a pretty common Yam fitment type, so again, no problem sourcing the size you want. Non O ring chains are ideal for the track I reckon - cheaper, and might give you half a HP at the rear wheel too. 

[SeaR1ck]

A good non oring chain would be good i have always used DiD ert2 gold on my dirt bikes. But when i was rebuilding my tzm 150 i found that RK chains where listed with higher tensile strength over DiD and most of the other common brands.

I went with a non oring on it since it uses a little 428 on the 150 i wanted the strongest chain i could get. The RK top of the line chain is the mk4z it's a gold link chain.

I got a little over 350 miles on it now and other than the initial stretch it has been holding up good. I'm sure the 520 is even better.

[ybk]

..
I've just been in the tranny, as you must take the gear clusters out of the casing to pull the internal oil filter. One of the three screws that holds the filter housing must be addressed at an angle if the gears are still in place. If not, it might be stripped. Don't ask how I know.

The gear clusters can easily be separated from the plate, just pull the shafts that hold the selector forks and then the gears, everything should just slide out  A bit easier to work with the plate by itself.

Regarding gearing, on a stock bike I went down a tooth in front to lower the gearing slightly. If the straights aren't too long then it's nicer than stock gearing.  With a derestricted bike I would go with higher gearing like Warwick suggested. Especially if you're a faster rider on a track with a long straight (>1km?). I'm dog slow so I like the extra acceleration from lower gearing.

[Steveog]

Good Afternoon, Gents. Thanks for your continued insight and advice.

I just took my frame and swinger to the blaster/powder guy this morning. We are fortunate to have 3 such shops in our town. These guys aren't cheap, but will get the swinger welded up for only an additional $20 USD. Budget getting stretched, but new chain and sprockets seem like a "must do" situation. Having an endless chain fitted is not something I want to do later.

Warwick - If I successfully rebuild the bike with the mods I have planned, it should run a lot stronger. Hoping for 60hp. So, a 15/38 sounds good. My thinking concerning shorter gearing was that it would bring ratios closer (slightly). I often found that with the "old set-up", I was a needing more over-rev in 2nd or a closer ratio 3rd. I'm guessing I can tune it with the Zeel and be happier with a bit taller gearing, but going with the -00 box on run-in and maybe even the first track day. Yes. I was going to source TZ parts for drive gearing. Glad to hear so much support for a non-o-ring chain. I remember putting a new chains on dirt bikes made a noticeable, positive change in performance.

Also, I'm going with Dunlop Q3+ Tyres. Stock sizing. I know many of you are Pirelli fans, but I have the new Dunlops, already.

Rick - Appreciate your opinions on chains. I hadn't decided on a brand. RK sounds good. I've used those before. The only chains that ever failed were the stock DID 428 types that came on my FZR-400. After being stranded...twice, I installed a 520 conversion kit.

ybk - Thanks. I've been examining the gears with the shafts off the backing plate. (seen in my last posted photo). I really don't want to tear in to the gear-selector mechanisms, but in order to replace the bearings on the shift shaft (which feel worn), looks as if I have no choice.

Concerning my need for gearing. I'm the fastest 68 year old guy at all the the Track Days. HA. I have fun with the 1000's and 600's in the corners. I'm competitive in Novice Class and haven't been pulled aside by a coach for a "friendly lecture"...yet. That said, once I price the drive package, I might get a 14 tooth counter-shaft sprocket, just in case.

New question: I'm confused by the parts manual concerning the use of radial thrust bearing on the SP model. The book shows no shim between the outer edge of the swing arm bearing and radial thrust bearing. Then no shim before the outer seal housing. I have a pic from Andy Bush's thread that shows his SP bearings and there are shims. Please advise. There is enough clearance for 2 X 2mm Shims and 1 X 2mm thrust bearings on each side of the swing-arm pivot.

Back to the shop guys. Last nice day before a major cold spell is due. Thanks again.

[Andy Bush]

You got me wondering too.

So...I checked the R model swing arm I have here, that's just come out my bike.
217mm across the swingarm. That's with no end caps or shims
Shims fitted were 4mm on the left and 3mm on the right, plus the end caps each end

Now the SP swing arm .
217mm across the swingarm
4mm on the left (thrust pack 1+2+1)
4mm on the right
Plus the end caps each end

Only 1mm difference, so I guess the SP is going to be snug fit in the frame.

Hope this helps
Andy

[Steveog]

Thanks, Andy. Very helpful for you to take the time to measure this out for me. I believe I'll go for it. As we discussed in your "Real SP" thread, my bearing supply people can get the radial thrust bearings and shims. They don't charge me shipping if the order is of certain USD amount. I'm going to be getting several bearings, so the cost for the thrust bearings won't be big gamble.

Good luck to us both.