3xv: Project Phoenix

[ybk]

I really don't want to tear in to the gear-selector mechanisms, but in order to replace the bearings on the shift shaft (which feel worn), looks as if I have no choice.


New question: I'm confused by the parts manual concerning the use of radial thrust bearing on the SP model. The book shows no shim between the outer edge of the swing arm bearing and radial thrust bearing. Then no shim before the outer seal housing. I have a pic from Andy Bush's thread that shows his SP bearings and there are shims. Please advise.

The gear selector drum stays put, you can just pull just the forks and 2 gear clusters. It's really easy to put back together - just slide the gear clusters with the forks as a unit back into the plate (without the fork shafts). Then just ensure the forks are seated on the drum's grooves and put the fork shafts back. They 'find' themselves again in the correct layout. You can do a quick gear check before final assembly to make sure all gears can be selected. (just make a note or take pictures where each fork go, they are different)

The manual is not super clear about the shim layout :



The green circle denotes the SP shims and bearing but the manual drawing shows them as a combined unit.

[Warwick]

Weird that you are getting different widths on the two R thrust washers, Andy. Parts book gives the same part number each side? I've got an R swinger out at the moment too, so will check what's in mine tomorrow if I get a minute. I was planning to look at the feasibility of radial rollers in that one when I put it back together too and assumed I would just try to source some suitable bearings the same overall width as the washers if possible.

[Steveog]

Ybk - Yes. I've discovered what you're advising about the shifter and tranny. Thanks. I've since pulled the shift shaft and after several "test fits" have decided that the shaft bearing must be replaced. Too much "slop". The big bearing are in great shape. Only the seals need replacing.

Pulling that tiny needle bearing in the shift rod cavity brings a challenge. Going to my bearing guys for a solution. A tiny puller, maybe.

I'm also experimenting with feeler gauge material to tighten up the shift-shaft bushing. This is an old trick used to tighten up suspension forks. Same principle, but much tighter tolerances.

Also, your insight on reading the parts book is invaluable. No wonder I was confused. Big help.

Warwick - I'm willing to be the guinea pig on this thrust bearing mod. However, your input is important, as always. It just seems that, "it must work if the swing arm and frame for the SP and R are the same dimensions". Thanks.

I'm facing brutal cold here for the next few days. Good test for my Shop's insulation and radiant heat. That said, "If I end up like Nicholson at the climax of "The Shining", I'm hoping someone will finish what I've started." My wife will gladly sell you the pieces.

[Warwick]

Weird that you are getting different widths on the two R thrust washers, Andy. Parts book gives the same part number each side? I've got an R swinger out at the moment too, so will check what's in mine tomorrow if I get a minute. I was planning to look at the feasibility of radial rollers in that one when I put it back together too and assumed I would just try to source some suitable bearings the same overall width as the washers if possible.

Measured mine  both at 4mm. Maybe one of yours was worn, Andy?

[Andy Bush]

Not worn, just the wrong item.....or in my case items. The 3mm side was actually two shims, so I'm guessing this isn't how yamaha intended ! Swingarm is powder coated, so will have been apart before.

[Warwick]

Not worn, just the wrong item.....or in my case items. The 3mm side was actually two shims, so I'm guessing this isn't how yamaha intended ! Swingarm is powder coated, so will have been apart before.

Ah, got ya. Bonkers, innit? Imagine going to the trouble of powder coating the arm and then lashing it back in with whatever washers you happened to have kicking about... 

[Andy Bush]

Twill all be sorted with a nice thrust bearing upgrade ?

[Warwick]

Twill all be sorted with a nice thrust bearing upgrade ?

Yeah, ordered a pair of AXK2542 4mm needle roller jobbies today.  Hopefully they will do the job as a straight replacement for the R type washers.  Find out when they arrive... I have a knackered knuckle bearing & bush to replace too. All adds up, dunnit?!     

[Steveog]

Thanks for your mutually benificial research, guys. Very helpful for my project, too. As I said before, I will source radial thrust bearings and shims locally.

We can compare results following installations.

Going to the "Frozen Shop" tomorrow. Trying to remove the shift-shaft bearing. Thinking that nature is now cooling the bearing in question to below (0-F)  (soaked in Kroil for the past 36 hours) will cause it to free up. I'm  hoping heat on the aluminum carrier will help pull it out.

Thanks again for all your help with swing-arm thrust bearing question.

[Steveog]

Assuming I haven't been clear, this is the bearing that need replacing. Spoke with the bearing pros. Their puller felt a bit big for this job, plus it was $140USD. Not a good investment. I have a DIY solution in mind.

Will share if successful on the extraction, if not I can read the numbers on the bearing for an American cross-match, should I need to break it free with more medieval methods.

Steve

[ybk]

Is that bearing worn out? I've never really had to replace that one, even on knackered engines. As far as I remember the bearing isn't listed in the part manual so you'll have to get it somewhere else. I found the gear shift linkages develop slack pretty easy which I think is the main source of problems. On my 10000km bike the joint on the shaft clamp is already loose. I usually weld them at the back which removes quite a bit of slack from the whole shifting action.

[Steveog]

Yeah, ordered a pair of AXK2542 4mm needle roller jobbies today.  Hopefully they will do the job as a straight replacement for the R type washers.  Find out when they arrive... I have a knackered knuckle bearing & bush to replace too. All adds up, dunnit?!   

Warwick are sure about that part number? I entered it into Megazip and a washer for a Subaru came up. When going to '91 SP parts diagram (posted by ybk), I got 933-42225-18-00 for the Thrust bearing. Did I miss something? Thanks.

[Warwick]

AXK2542 is the generic bearing id number, Steve, not the Yam Part number.

I've taken a punt on these  with the AS2542 washers to see if they will do the job:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AXK2542-Needle-Roller-Cage-with-2-AS2542-Washers-25x42x4mm/192003528913?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20170920101022%26meid%3D0ac3b6cfac8f45e49f5f8077458f84db%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D190372606178%26itm%3D192003528913&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

Should arrive by the weekend, so I should be able to assess their suitability then...   

I put the new IKO TA2525z swinger bearings in today. They are exactly the same bearings that Yamaha put in at the factory, but without the Yam oe parts price tag  . 

[Andy Bush]

These are the thrust bearings I got

[Warwick]

They look like they'll do the job, don't they. 1mm+2+1 yeah? Let us know how they look when offered up if you get to them before the weekend, Andy? It'll save me the antici...pation...

My (I presume) factory-fitted R swinger sleeve bearings were located a mm or two inboard of the end of my swinger hub. I've fitted the new ones flush with the end of the hub end as I reckon the bearing end will give the radial bearing shim support that way  .