3xv: Project Phoenix

[ybk]

Yeah I would replace the seal, they're not too expensive. I do them on all motors that end up on the bench. I usually heat up the surrounding area with a torch then just wedge it out with a gigantic flat screwdriver.

Yamaha recommends molybdenum grease for the linkages for its hard wearing properties:

https://www.amazon.com/Yamalube-ACC-MOLDM-GS-10-Molybdenum-Disulfide-Grease/dp/B005XA2EQK



The 3xvA/B workshop manual I find a bit more useful since it has extra information thats not in the 3xv1/2 one. Most of the RS stuff is universal to the R's.

By the way, the 3YL TZ uses the same shift shaft bearing we were discussing before, the part number is available in the TZ manual if you still want to replace it, part number 93317-21236. Interestingly the 4DP uses a solid bush which probably takes out the slack quite a bit at the expense of movement..

Info courtesy of Yuri with his encyclopedic knowledge of Yamaha parts 

[Steveog]

Thanks, Karl. As always, great info. By extension, thanks to Yuri, too.

I soaked the water pump seal in Kroil, but will proceed to heat it up tomorrow. It took a bit of propane torching to free up the rear suspension linkage bearings.

Heat and Kroil (sounds like a progressive Rock Band) were the only thing that broke through the swingarm "fusion syndrome".

If I decide to replace the shift-shaft bearing, I believe I can source it, locally. However, having the part number from a TZ for cross reference is a big help.

Balancing expenses at this point is the challenge, but the deeper I get, the more logical it seems to fix everything...now. With these unique bikes and parts becoming more rare, as we speak, a thoroughly refreshed machine would seem a good investment. I'm sure I'm not the first one here to reach this: "WTF" point of view.

Just ordered the MdS Yamagrease.

Back to the pic. Is this seal failure to be a expected after 28 years of duty? I would think so, but I'm only approaching my first anniversary with the 3xv. Some of you have been at this for more than a decade.

Willingness to share that knowledge with me is quite profound and deeply appreciated.

Steve

[casal-fan]

Balancing expenses at this point is the challenge, but the deeper I get, the more logical it seems to fix everything...now.

Steve

Amen

[Steveog]

Took the day yesterday off for some steroid injections. As Indiana Jones said, "Its not the age, it the mileage". In my case its both.

OK. Here's some more pleasant updates.

Got the water pump impeller seal out (thanks Karl). Its a complex three banded affair that acts much like a bearing. For those of you needing to dig this guy out, be very careful to not use the edge of the water pump housing as a lever for prying...unless you protect the aluminum first. I used one of the seals from the suspension linkage as a guard.

Kudos to Warwick for turning me on to "Simply Bearings". Website easy to navigate and pricing is more than competitive. Have several seals in the cue basket right now. Will complete the order right after this post.

Also, just picked up the frame and swing-arm from powder-coating guys. Very happy. The repair to the weld on the swing-arm is seamless and they didn't charge me for this third-party service.

Pics attached.

[ybk]

That finish looks real nice

[Steveog]

Thanks, Karl. Its a satin black, textured in the power-coat, not looking though to the sandblasting. Not cheap, but far better than the paint some one slapped on the chassis just to sell it. The first couple of times I took off the tank, the dreaded 3xv vacuum petcock dripped on the frame beams and streaked the paint. Never again. I now have an RGV tap and this surface won't streak.

Now, let's hope the reassembly looks as good.

Steve

[Steveog]

Not much progress today, but waiting on many items such as bearing and seals. In the meantime, thanks to a kind, but weird small businessman, I was able to break the bond of a couple of phillips-head screws anchoring the counter-shaft and balance-shaft bearings.

He lent me a hand-help impact-tool that (after heating) broke right through the Red Lock-tight. Now, I can pull the bearings, have my local shop measure them and replace with higher quality stuff. No, they didn't have cross-references for Toyo numbers, even though they sell that brand. They seemed confident that they can match if measured.

Started the tedious task of cleaning and scraping the old sealant from all surfaces. Will move next to cleaning up the L/H bearing runs while waiting on parts.

As one of our friends had so perfectly stated, "It's always fucking something".

I've discovered what many of you already know. There is no such thing as a "finished" 3xv.

One last note for this day, "May you all be blessed with wives who try their best to understand."

Steve

[41juergen]

As one of our friends had so perfectly stated, "It's always fucking something".

I've discovered what many of you already know. There is no such thing as a "finished" 3xv.

One last note for this day, "May you all be blessed with wives who try their best to understand."

That fits perfectly and I fully agree with all your statements, Steve! 
Juergen

[ybk]

Haha, true words^^

Those screws can be a pain, I have destroyed a few with my ignorance   Now I attack them with a proper JIS bit:



They fit those screws real snug:



Then heat it up with a torch and use a socket wrench with suitable attachments to get it out The added advantage is you can properly torque (8NM) them as well with the wrench on reassembly. If you don't have a proper JIS bit then often you can find a bit in those cheap toolsets for electric screwdrivers that fit better than your average philips.. Failing that you can even file down the tip of a normal philips bit which will give a better 'bite'.

[Steveog]

Juergen - Thanks for the support. Glad you're looking in on my project. The more eyes on my activities the better to stop me when approaching a cliff.

ybk - Thanks for the insight, Karl. I feel a bit foolish in not knowing that those two screws were anchored with Red Locktite (which requires heat). I'm not sure of the brand of the #3 Phillips the "tool shop guy" gave me to try, but once seated, it did not "cam-out". In fact, that screw holding the counter-shaft bearing was pretty buggered up (by me). Glad it all came apart, but I'm wondering if I can find a hex-head or torx-head version of these screws. It certainly would make things easier, assuming I dig this deep again on this specific bike.

My local bearing shop just called. Time for another 40 mile round trip.

Steve 

[ybk]

Glad it all came apart, but I'm wondering if I can find a hex-head or torx-head version of these screws. It certainly would make things easier,

Strangely enough when I ordered those screws from yamaha I received ones with a torx head! Then second time round I got the philips heads again. Luck of the draw?

[Steveog]

HA. At least we know they exist. I've got two large nut and bolt company's in our nearest town. I'm going to source them for a solution. They like it when I buy at least 20 units. If they can deliver, do you want a few torx head versions? US mail is not nearly as expensive as getting stuff from Japan.

Steve

My offer to supply these screw/bolts is open to all. This all assumes, I can source them, locally.

[Steveog]

Not a much progress on the 3xv, but we did get my partner's bikes moved into The Shop. A Super-Stock, race prepped 2011 ZX-6R and track prepped EX-400 are first in line. My FZR-400 is behind that one. An '96 SRAD GSXR-750 is hiding under the flat -black tank. My RM-80 is in the back.

The TZR chassis is under the blue cotton linen (see last post for pics of powder coating). The engine is on the bench.

I did extract the needle bearing for the clutch actuation shaft. It and the contingent seal oblivious need replacing. Very sloppy.

Waiting on parts. Some are delayed, but shouldn't fowl the schedule for our first track day.

My partner supplies the transportation to and from track days and he uses my shop space for maintenance. We've been friends for at least 50 years. All good.

Steve

[James P]

HA. At least we know they exist. I've got two large nut and bolt company's in our nearest town. I'm going to source them for a solution. They like it when I buy at least 20 units.

Steve,

I'm not sure how easy it is to get metric fasteners in USA, but I usually replace all JIS/Phillips head screws with high-tensile Allen socket screws. Most of these are available ready-zinc-plated for 'external' fittings. As far as countersunk (and also the rounded button-head) M6 Allen socket screws go, beware that these may only be good for use (i.e. installing and removing) a couple of times - the hex sockets can 'round out' if tightening torque is high. I use blue Loctite on these rather than the red stuff, which lessens the chance of damage on removal and heat is rarely required. The screws are cheap enough, so I usually buy 20 or more of each size, just to make sure I always have replacements ready.

If you do end up going for the Torx socket screws, please let us know your impressions!

Regards,
James

[Steveog]

Hi James. Thanks for your contribution. Many of our cars are now built with metric fasteners. Even modern Harleys are partially metric. A couple are more than half metric. This 3xv is tricky enough, imagine juggling two types of measurements and wrenches.

Lots of metric tools and fasteners here. In fact, I replaced the phillips screws holding the oil filter with hex-heads of the same length. Used blue locktite after tidying up the mounting holes with carb cleaner.

I like the idea of a torx-head for a the counter-sunk bolts holding the bearings in place. Seems that more, if smaller contact points would mean less possible damage upon removal. I have no science to back that up, just a feeling. Your point about limited duty cycles for any fastener is worthy of note, however.

I'll report how it all works out.