The IC inside the CDI

[eyrey1]

i hope someone is thinking of making one for reading the 3xv boxes like this year ?
we must have most of the boxes coverd between everyone !
i like what your doing ,what a good idea .
well done

[4l04ever]

The timing going down from 19 degrees to 18/17 is due to there needing to be a correction factor.

The higher the RPM, the more the correction factor needs to be.  It is a linear adjustment, so for every 100RPM, take off an extra xxx from the calculated time delay.  The Zeeltronic has a compensation value which is used for this, which has to be adjusted until the flat line ignition value stays constant over all the rev range.

Hope this helps! :-)

Rob

[Louis]

Hello Eyrey1

i like what your doing ,what a good idea

Thanks, we are close but its not ready yet.


Hello Rob,

Thanks for the explanation
Was thinking something like that to, as it walking away from 19 degrees equally with the rpm.

Olivier is helping me on this part, he writes the firmware for the iCP12.
He was already talking about a correction factor, but he has some busy days ahead.
So it will take some time, before a new firm ware is made.

In the mean time, hoping to have a working rpm meter within a couple off days.
To see advance versus rpm

If it will not work with tacho type 1, have ordered a other type with bright red digits that would do the trick

[tzr-v4]

I've been able to have some time to modify the CDI at 19° steady.

Louis need your test and feedback 

Change serial link from pooling to interrupt, increase the timer counting frequency and new formula!!!

We'll see the result.

New CDI-Testor application with RPM and Advance circular gauges 

[Louis]

Hello Olivier,

Your CDI-testor is looking great.

Have downloaded your 19 degrees firmware on the iCP12.
And have tested it, sadly it has a somewhat same results (perhaps it's walking less fast)
(If you look close to the last rpms, it seems that its walking to the 20 degrees to)

Have double checked it just to know for sure the firmware is downloaded correct.
Had no problems with installing the software



Here you have the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KztzgLlGwjw&feature=youtu.be

Sadly the rpm meter haven't arrived jet, so I can't tell you on witch rpm versus degrees it is walking
Hope to receive the meters soon, so I can help you more on this part

Louis

[Louis]

Found some info about accuracy. Perhaps this will bring you on new ideas

Accuracy:
The curve is thus defined by 131 points, authorising a tuning. But the accuracy is rough:
+/- 1° à 1660tr/mn
+/- 5° à 8330tr/mn
This low precision is due to the 100us step, "the measuring unit" used for measuring the duration between 2 pulses and to set the delay before the spark.
Those durations are counted in 100us units.
100us unit is small enough at low RPM but is not at high RPM!
This value is a compromise for low and high RPM.

ie: a 8300rpm, 30° mean 0.026ms while 35° mean 0.029ms, and both value are rounded to 0.03ms (multiple of 100us)

A 10us unit would be more accurate but in another hand, the table would be ten time larger, and would overflow the 8bits counter capacity at low RPM...

Changing the quartz will not improve the precision either. 4MHz is fast enought, to replace it by a 8Mhz crystal will not improve the accuracy.

And:

Duration of the spark:

The duration of the spark cannot be adjust on a CDI, it depend of the capacitor value and the coil value. After all we can adjust the duration of the pulse that trigger the thyristor. This pulse duration (called: dwell time) can be change for some slow thyristor but without impact on the spark duration:

[tzr-v4]

The timer step which counts the time between 2 pickup pulses is :  0.66666666667 µs
For counting the retard, the timer step is 0.08333333334 µs

The problem is that the 2 resolutions (steps) are combining themselves when calculating the retard.

For a fixed value of advance 19°, you have to wait 35°-19°=16° before firing the spark.
The time to wait for these 16° decreases as the rpm rises  so the counter has to count less then the resolution gets a bigger impact.

In my firmware, I compute the linear approximation between 2 points on the advance curve (should have no impact on the steady 19° firmware) I'll check this.

On my CDI-Testor, I compute back the advance based on the timer value send to the PC by the ICP12. So it is a bit theoretical.

Your RPM reader will be useful for looking at which rpm the signal is shifting.

[Louis]

I belief that it will be difficult, I'm trying to help you as good as I can

We had luck, today I found my first rpm type in the post.
So have tested it

Here are the results (Indication)

810rpm at 19,3 degrees

1280rpm at 19 degrees

2100rpm at 18,5 degrees

3030rpm at 18 degrees

3900rpm at 17,5 degrees

Roughly saying:
every 900rpm gives a half degree out

Hope this helps:
Will test the oem ic to, see what it does

[tzr-v4]

Hi all...

Was last weekend on track at the RD500LC meeting on my TZR250 2XT.
I'll post some pictures later.

I pickup a TDR250 CDI which will be used and converted to programmable ignition.

I'll test it first the hack it 

[Louis]

Hello Olivier,

Great you have that CDI, could be interesting to see if the components/design are somewhat the same as the 3MA CDI

Last weekend I spend some time to investigate the speed limiter system.
Found some interesting thinks.
One off them is, found the purpose of pin number 34 on the IC.

See here for some more info.
http://www.tzr3ma.com/speed-limiter.html

Could be handy to know that you have two lines (cables) from cockpit to IC
In the newer version we could use it for two options

Louis

[tzr-v4]

Hi,

Here the TDR250 CDI Box.

Will test it on me 2XT but need to sort what to do with the 3 wires connector used for the side stand switch.
- Black is ground
- Light blue is neutral contact
- Blue-Yellow is side stand

Should I leave it unconnected ?

Louis, how to open properly the box ?

[Louis]

Hello Olivier,

Will test it on me 2XT but need to sort what to do with the 3 wires connector used for the side stand switch.
- Black is ground
- Light blue is neutral contact
- Blue-Yellow is side stand

Normally neutral light/signal is given by a ground signal idem for the side stand.
The side stand needs a mass signal in order to give the right signal ''stand is in'' to the CDI

So you can put a mass signal on the side stand wire, to give the right signal to the cdi.
Neutral can be left open, or giving a mass signal same as shifting trough the gears.

Louis, how to open properly the box ?

Normally I flip the frond out, after that ill try to pull it out. (normally it not that strong glued)
But if she holds steady, ill cut here open.
(Saw it at the bottom about 1mm from the side)

[tzr-v4]

Back from family holidays and back to home 

I've made a little wiring loom 'very small' to have my 2XT running the TDR250 2YK CDI

Balance :
- wiring the side stand and the neutral light to Ground
- YPVS working (at least cleaning cycle)
- bike runs on the side stand in the garage

Picture to come.

Next step open the black box without damaging the circuit board and the box 

[tzr-v4]

Voila!!!

OEM IC writting:
D
071050-0030
511 128M
8804 Z07

Will try to get the OEM pin description this weekend.

[Louis]

Going Great Olivier

Looks like the IC is all most the same.
Ill be really interested in the pin setting, don't think they are that different