The IC inside the CDI

[Louis]

Perhaps it has something to do with this

Ignition performing

PIC receives the signal from the pick-up and delays it by using an internal table. This means that the starting point of the ignition should be place before of PMS at the most advanced point in which you want to the ignition works.

First graph shows the real advance curve measured in degrees over the PMS, nevertheless the PIC can not perform advancing, else it will make a delay from the pickup signal (typically at 36 degrees). For the maximum advance point, the PIC will do a zero delay (for 36 deg. advance). When this maximum value is determined, the second graph can be done, this graph shows delay in degrees that the PIC should perform after receiving the pickup pulse.

The PIC computes the elpased time between the last pulse and the present one, and by using this count it access to a table in which are stored time to delays vs measured period.

[maccas]

Louis,

How many degrees before TDC is the front of the lobe on the 3ma flywheel?

43?

Dan

[Louis]

Sorry Guys my mistake.

These value's are with full throttle position (Tps sensor on 1)
I should have measured the closed throttle position (tps on 0)

As I sad, its cold out there


Hello Dan,

How many degrees before TDC is the front of the lobe on the 3ma flywheel?

Sorry I really don't know.
It's to late to measure it now. Will try to measure it when I have the time.
I know that the steady angular is 36 degrees. Perhaps this helps?

[Louis]

Think I have it


(Thanks to Rui, for the calculation)
26Hz----780Rpm------3,55ms----16,6deg 36-16,6=19,4deg
47Hz----1410Rpm-----2,05ms----17,3deg 36-17,3=18,7deg
66Hz----1980Rpm-----1,49ms----17,7deg   36-17,7=18,3deg
104Hz---3120Rpm----749us----14,02deg 36-14,02=21,98deg
140Hz---4200Rpm----577us----14,54deg 36-14,54=21,46deg
177Hz---5310Rpm----465us----14,81deg 36-14,18=21,19deg
209Hz---6270Rpm----411us----15,46deg 36-15,46=20,54deg
242Hz---7260Rpm----362us----15,78deg 36-15,78=20,22deg
273Hz---8190Rpm----318us----15,62deg 36-15,62=20,38deg
310Hz---9333Rpm----328us----18,36deg 36-18,36=17,64deg
344Hz---10310Rpm---352us----21,77deg 36-21,77=14,23deg
376Hz---11280Rpm---401us----27,14deg 36-27,14=8.86deg
407Hz---12210Rpm---455us----33,33deg 36-33,33=2,67deg

Then the resulds will be this. (the full Throttle curve)


Think the slight variation has something to do with me. As I'm manually picking the points on the grid to show me the delay time.
I'm looking if my oscilloscope can do that for me, that will be precise

[casal-fan]

Well done Louis!!!
Your measurements are quite consistent with your "guesstimated" graph (wich now is not that guesstimated anymore )

[Louis]

Your measurements are quite consistent

Well its still a bid wobbly , but now I know how to come at the values/degrees.

Need to know if my Oscilloscope can do the mathematical trick. (Time between channel one rising edge and rising edge channel two)
If this is possible, think you can compute that curve very precise.

[Louis]

Have readout the 0 curve to.
http://www.tzr3ma.com/curve-0--close-throttle-.html

Interesting for our experiment

10310rpm----19,92degrees
10740rpm----17,67degrees
11280rpm----13,47degrees

Meaning this we know, isn't that bad


After knowing this, perhaps a pipe peeking at 11000rpm would be better.
From what I have been reading a headvolume of 10,5cc (close to) works good with a 14 degrees at peek power.

Could have that wrong of course, but have read it serval times

[Toop]

Thank you for the 2MA grafic , it interests me 

[Louis]

Thank you for the 2MA grafic , it interests me 

No problem, there you have it

Made a great discovery, even have to rewrite some thing on my page

First like to say, I can make mistakes to. So I apologies fore the ones who have followed me on this.

Speed limiter circuit.

Have always sad that by removing the speedometer from the clock and connect it at the cdi will be enough to bypass the speed limiter. This is as I know now partly through.

Because I can generate quit some rpm steps with my pulse generator, thought lets find the speed limiter curve witch should be active when metal tap is between the optics.

But couldn't find any changing in the ignition curve when the speedlimiter should work. Have tested and replaced the speed limiter chip (clock side) checked again, etc, etc, but can't find any changing in the curve.

Little bid disappointed, went over to read out the ypvs curve

And those I have, here you are

Ypvs start opening at 5880rpm
Yps fully open at 9720rpm.

Thought that's nice to know, and pushed a couple more rpms to see what happens and there it was

At 10.500rpm the ypvs motor did a small step back. First I thought something went wrong.
But no, time after time at that point the ypvs closes a touch.

So instead of a safety or speed limiter curve, the ypvs just closes the powervalve a touch to drop the power

There is more:

The Speelimiter needs to see the tap first (signal to the CDI)
Only then the ypvs stays open from 9720 till about 14000rpm (did not go futher)

When the speedlimiter does not see the tap, before engine starts (signal is not given to the CDI)
The ypvs will close a touch at 10500rpm

This is of course not noticeable with stock pipes as they peek at 10.000rpm (there is where I went wrong)
But if you have pipes that peeks more than 10.000rpm, This could be as some described it ''hitting a wall''

So if you have a setup with the restrictor just connected at the CDI. Put something between the optics before you start the engine, after the engine runs or you ride pull the (example) tyrep a way and you have free power.

Will update my site with this, within a couple off days (will explain it better and with detail)

[maccas]

Now that is interesting Louis!

I agree that you need to put something between the optics on start up then remove it once running, but always thought it was the ignition curve that changed as you said!

Great stuff!

Dan

[Louis]

Thanks,

Yes, this was totally un expected for me to.
Will do some more test, with pictures and a movie to show how much the ypvs is lowering the pv's

Funny isn't it, after years working on them those 3MA's still surprises us

[maccas]

Yes definitely Louis! Those clever Japanese! I wonder if the 3xv limiter works in the same way?

Dan

[Toop]

Surprising conclusion of your work Louis, thank you for this interesting find 

[Warwick]

Yes definitely Louis! Those clever Japanese! I wonder if the 3xv limiter works in the same way?

Dan

I'd always assumed that the oe CPU rev limiter worked by an ignition tweak too, but backing off the PV a touch would do the job just as well I guess, so I wouldn't be surprised if it does work the same way on the 3XV too. A close watch of a stock bike's PV spool on the dyno would tell the story. Good stuff, Louis!     

[Louis]

Thanks Guy's.

Have updated my site, with some more details.
http://www.tzr3ma.com/speed-limiter-working.html

Now you can see how much the ypvs is going back


Hope this clears thinks up