The IC inside the CDI

[paul8899]

That's interesting to see it working. Might explain why my bike only revs to 10500

Do you have access to an m-max delimiter to see if it does the same thing as just having the circuit board fitted ?

Also, can you check how far the ypvs opens when the circuit board is unplugged ? Just curious as to what ( if any ) difference that makes

Keep up the good work

[Louis]

Might explain why my bike only revs to 10500

Could be, but with the use off stock pipes you should hardly noticed as they peek at 10.000RPM
Perhaps if you hold full throttle longer, after peek power. You may feel it indeed.

Do you have access to an m-max delimiter to see if it does the same thing as just having the circuit board fitted ?

Yes I have, will certainly test it.

Also, can you check how far the ypvs opens when the circuit board is unplugged

Yes, that is one off the first things ill be testing.
I cant hardly belief that the pv wont open all the way, to reduce the power that much they should hardly open.
So my guess is that this is perhaps done with the ignition.
Will see

[paul8899]

I have held the bike flat out ( in all gears ) to see if I could get the revs up but the most I could get was 10600, I did think that it should go a bit more but having your results on the ypvs explains why it won't rev.

Thanks for testing the m-max box, will be interesting to see the results

Got another question, do you know what happens to the ypvs if the metal tab is left in the circuit board from start up ?

The reason I ask is that on one of the videos on your site when you put the tab between the sensors the ypvs opens up and when it's removed it drops back the 30 degrees, does that mean that if the tab is there all the time the bike is in unrestricted mode ?

[casal-fan]

Hi there Paul, just read your last post.
As I understand it, the tab needs to be there when speedo is reading 0 km or ml/h. Then it has to NOT interfeer with the gizmo anymore.
The method posted in 2006 on the forum of that time is still valid, or so I understand it.
http://pure2strokespirit.net/TZR/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboard88d3.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=129

If you look at the pics in the 5th post, by Warwick in that thread.
Pic in the left is shows the tab in its original length. Speedo is a 0 km/h. The right side of the tab is in between the the 2 small "tower like" gizmos, that is OK.
Then, as the speedo begins to move (higher speed), the tab follows the speedo needle, and the left side of the tab as you see it in the first pic, when needle is at 180km/h gets again in between the 2 "towers" in the gizmo. This is what gives the sign for the YPVS valve to close.

Now look at the pic. to the right.
The left end of the tab has been cutted away. This means that the speedo needle needs to be in a position where it would be showing VERY VERY high speed (250-300 km/h ) for the tab to get in between the towers.
Thats it.

I did this mod to my 3XV. Together with the other cylinder work by TZR cylinder guru Martin77, OX racing SP pipes, airbox mods and a few hours of carburation work, the bike reved to more then 12000 rpm on the tacho. Also the 180 km/h mark... well... it was not an issue

For a guy with your skils, doing this mod. would be as easy, as for a teenager to get a b*nner, if he accidently was to walk into the girls changing room after a gymnastics class.

[paul8899]

Hi there Paul, just read your last post.
As I understand it, the tab needs to be there when speedo is reading 0 km or ml/h. Then it has to NOT interfeer with the gizmo anymore.
The method posted in 2006 on the forum of that time is still valid, or so I understand it.
http://pure2strokespirit.net/TZR/localhost/cgi-bin/ikonboard88d3.html?s=cc546999de3446d361d9dd7b0f95594a;act=ST;f=5;t=129

If you look at the pics in the 5th post, by Warwick in that thread.
Pic in the left is shows the tab in its original length. Speedo is a 0 km/h. The right side of the tab is in between the the 2 small "tower like" gizmos, that is OK.
Then, as the speedo begins to move (higher speed), the tab follows the speedo needle, and the left side of the tab as you see it in the first pic, when needle is at 180km/h gets again in between the 2 "towers" in the gizmo. This is what gives the sign for the YPVS valve to close.

Now look at the pic. to the right.
The left end of the tab has been cutted away. This means that the speedo needle needs to be in a position where it would be showing VERY VERY high speed (250-300 km/h ) for the tab to get in between the towers.
Thats it.

I did this mod to my 3XV. Together with the other cylinder work by TZR cylinder guru Martin77, OX racing SP pipes, airbox mods and a few hours of carburation work, the bike reved to more then 12000 rpm on the tacho. Also the 180 km/h mark... well... it was not an issue

For a guy with your skils, doing this mod. would be as easy, as for a teenager to get a b*nner, if he accidently was to walk into the girls changing room after a gymnastics class.

Thanks for the link and explanation, the problem I have is that I've fitted digital clocks so the circuit board is mounted separately so the only way I can have the tab moving is to move it manually.

Looks lke I'll have to work out some sort of switch at start up now

If I'm getting this right then, at standstill the bike has the restricted ypvs ?

[Louis]

Quit busy these days, but managed to do some measurements for you Paul.

Have to say, the testing unit placed is a 3MA-00 CDI the 3MA-01 CDI could have a different out come.

Metal tap between optics all time.
-Ignition curve is the same as full throttle (or closed depends on throttle position)
  only the pv are closing at 10500rpm.

Speed limiter disconnected
-This surprised me to, but the ignition curve is still the same (no safety curve)
  pv's go back at 10500rpm

TPS sensor disconnected.
- Ignition is using the full throttle curve, and pv's are closing at 10500rpm

I'm surprised with the outcome to.
As I know that what you have been feeling when speedlimiter is disconnected
It feels like a lame duck
(same if you have put the TPS sensor 180 degrees wrong on your carbs)

But can't measure a difference in the ignition curve, with this setup.
I'm looking if I can find a 3MA-01 CDI fore some measurements
(I have one, but like to hold that one original for some testing with the closed curve and shortened exhausts)

[Warwick]

On both the 3XV and 3MA I've always found performance to be just the same with the restrictor unit either unplugged or with the tab between the sensor (ie: with the speedo cable removed so the speedo sits at '0' through any testing, so your findings match with that Louis.

If using the stock ignitions I always used to suggest leaving the restrictor unit fitted in the speedo, but with the tab trimmed to leave a bit at the beginning because it always seemed to me that the optics needed to see the tab initially at start up before it 'disarmed' the restriction as the tab moved out of sightt of the optics as the speed rose. The trick being to prevent the tab going back between the optics t 180, thus sending the 'restrict' signal to the CDI.

On the 3XV, the Posh Firm Moto boxes allow you to remove the restrictor unit if you want because they connect only to the wiring loom itself (not the restrictor unit), thus taking it out of the equation all together. The M-Max boxes seem to work differently and need the restrictor unit in place as they connect between the restrictor and the loom. I don't know if Posh Firm Moto made the same kind of unit for the 3MA that I have for the 3XV though?

     

[paul8899]

Quit busy these days, but managed to do some measurements for you Paul.

Have to say, the testing unit placed is a 3MA-00 CDI the 3MA-01 CDI could have a different out come.

Metal tap between optics all time.
-Ignition curve is the same as full throttle (or closed depends on throttle position)
  only the pv are closing at 10500rpm.

Speed limiter disconnected
-This surprised me to, but the ignition curve is still the same (no safety curve)
  pv's go back at 10500rpm

TPS sensor disconnected.
- Ignition is using the full throttle curve, and pv's are closing at 10500rpm

I'm surprised with the outcome to.
As I know that what you have been feeling when speedlimiter is disconnected
It feels like a lame duck
(same if you have put the TPS sensor 180 degrees wrong on your carbs)

But can't measure a difference in the ignition curve, with this setup.
I'm looking if I can find a 3MA-01 CDI fore some measurements
(I have one, but like to hold that one original for some testing with the closed curve and shortened exhausts)

Thanks for doing those tests Louis   

Those results are very interesting, especially when the unit is disconnected.

I know that as standard the bike peaks at 10500rpm but it would be nice if it there was the option to hang onto the gears a little bit longer.

I'm pretty sure that there was a difference in performance when the unit was disconnected but after seeing your results it might of just been me knowing that it wasn't there which made it feel like it did.

[Louis]

Hi Warwick,

Yes you are right, ignition curve (performance wise) there is no difference  (with tap or without tap or disconnected)
To gain full function off the pv's, the metal tap needs to be seen ones.

The only thing I'm interested in now, is if there is a different between the 00 or 01 3MA CDI's
All the testing is done on a 3MA-00 CDI, So can't compare.
Have scored a 3MA-01 CDI to see if any differences can be found, now I know how to read them out.

Could be interesting.
I'm guessing the differences will be minimal as I have tested them on a dyno with hardly any difference.
But the 3MA's still surprises me, so perhaps something can be found

Will see

[Louis]

Hi Paul,

I know that as standard the bike peaks at 10500rpm

They peek at 10.000rpm with stock 3MA-1 exhausts.
So you have a +/-500rpm over rev.

but it would be nice if it there was the option to hang onto the gears a little bit longer.

I know, working on that.
The optic's speedlimiter circuitboard, are nothing more then a electrical swish.
I'm trying to find out if it can be replaced with a normal on/of swish.
So you can give the correct signal to the CDI ones the engine is started, and swish to full ypvs curve when needed

Give me some time for it.

Just fore my personal know how, what CDI unit do you have fitted the 00 or 01?

[paul8899]

On both the 3XV and 3MA I've always found performance to be just the same with the restrictor unit either unplugged or with the tab between the sensor (ie: with the speedo cable removed so the speedo sits at '0' through any testing, so your findings match with that Louis.

If using the stock ignitions I always used to suggest leaving the restrictor unit fitted in the speedo, but with the tab trimmed to leave a bit at the beginning because it always seemed to me that the optics needed to see the tab initially at start up before it 'disarmed' the restriction as the tab moved out of sightt of the optics as the speed rose. The trick being to prevent the tab going back between the optics t 180, thus sending the 'restrict' signal to the CDI.

On the 3XV, the Posh Firm Moto boxes allow you to remove the restrictor unit if you want because they connect only to the wiring loom itself (not the restrictor unit), thus taking it out of the equation all together. The M-Max boxes seem to work differently and need the restrictor unit in place as they connect between the restrictor and the loom. I don't know if Posh Firm Moto made the same kind of unit for the 3MA that I have for the 3XV though?

   

That's good to know how the bike feels with the speedo cable removed, that was something that I was interested in hearing about. I've read that some people have had their bike set up on the dyno but when it was used on the road they seized, if the bike has a different setting once it goes into de-restricted mode then that might explain why that happens. 

What I'll do ( once it warms up a bit ) is move the circuit board so that I can see how the bike revs/feels when it sees a metal tab at start up

I might even see if I can work out some way to make a switch that moves the tab out of the way of the optics

[paul8899]

Hi Paul,

I know that as standard the bike peaks at 10500rpm

They peek at 10.000rpm with stock 3MA-1 exhausts.
So you have a +/-500rpm over rev.

but it would be nice if it there was the option to hang onto the gears a little bit longer.

I know, working on that.
The optic's speedlimiter circuitboard, are nothing more then a electrical swish.
I'm trying to find out if it can be replaced with a normal on/of swish.
So you can give the correct signal to the CDI ones the engine is started, and swish to full ypvs curve when needed

Give me some time for it.

Just fore my personal know how, what CDI unit do you have fitted the 00 or 01?

If my memory serves me right the highest rpm I saw was 10570 which ties up with your results.

I was thinking of making a mechanical switch, having a push button would look a lot nicer but I'll leave that to someone who knows what he's doing

The CDI unit I have is a 01

[Warwick]

Just to confirm Louis: I've always used a -01 ignition/PV unit too, so the notes above refer only to my experience with that unit in regards to the 3MA. It'll be interesting to see if you find any difference between the -00 and -01 boxes in terms of how they restrict on your test rig. Seems unlikely that they would change something like that, but who knows? And it will be interesting to see in any case .   

[tzr-v4]

Back on the project of programmable CDI

I've tested my TDR CDI with new YPVS IC and OEM IC on the TZR... so i'll test my lab setup for winter software developments.

Maybe we need to split the thread in 2 parts :
- 3MA specific functions
- programmable development 3MA and 2XT + TDR...

Any comments.

[Louis]

Just to confirm Louis: I've always used a -01 ignition/PV unit too, so the notes above refer only to my experience with that unit in regards to the 3MA

Ok thanks, that is good to know.
Will do some tests when I have the 3MA-01 CDI at home, and see if those fields are different.

Back on the project of programmable CDI

Will do

The pulse generator, can generate a relative wide range off rpm's (Solid and steady steps of around 500rpm)
Now it will be possible to see where the firmware on the iCP12 is walking away.

Also noticed that pin23 is generating a ignition pulse to.
Only this one is not getting longer/shorter when turning at the TPS sensor.
Will investigate this further

Any comments.

Keeping up the good work