3xv: Project Phoenix

[Steveog]

I get it Warwick/Andy. Yes, the R swinger has its primary bearing recessed slightly. I know, as I had to chisel out the stock washer/spacer. I'm confident this will allow the new radial needles and shims to fit.

OEM prices for the parts are not bad, but shipping is absurd. Like you guys, I'll source, locally.

Andy - I'm with Warwick. Looking forward to your report.

Thanks to you both.

Steve

PS - It was -2F here today. (Too lazy to do a Celsius calculation, plus its cocktail time) It's f**king cold. My new insulation and heating did the job keeping me comfortable, but handling bare metal made the session a short one. No progress pulling the shift-shaft bearing. It will be 60F by Saturday. Hoping to make some progress by then.

[Warwick]

My take-a-chance-on-me (like ACME but more experimental  ) thrust bearings were waiting for me when I got in from work today. Speedy delivery there from Bolton Engineering Products!  .

Looks like they will work out fine  . The washer-bearing-washer put together as a bearing pack are the same dimensions as the original solid thrust washer and fit on the shaft and in the end cup seals neatly. The proof of the pudding will be when it all goes back together of course, but it looks good so far.

The line up pic below shows L to R: A three part bearing pack, then the oe washer, then the three individual parts of the bearing separated.

The end view shows the or R model washer (right) and the alternative bearing stack (left) widths. Don't have calipers to hand and it's snowing outside so I'm not going out to get 'em, but they look more-or-less identical - close enough as should make no difference in any case   .

[Steveog]

Thanks, Warwick. ACME. Very funny. Great details and demo pics. Looking forward to your test-fit. It has to work. I'll take your part number to my local guys. I have the dimensions and now good pictures to show if they can't match directly.

Very Helpful.

Added later: Just contacted Bolton via email. Perhaps they are less restricted than bike specific shops with shipments to the US.

[Warwick]

One of the reasons I posted the link was that it mentioned overseas postage, Steve. If it's a problem for them direct (can't see why it would be. It'd only be small airmail package?) and you can't source locally (I'd imagine you will be able to as they are a common bearing), I'd be happy to forward a pair to you.

With the caveat that we haven't definitively ascertained that they will work in practice yet of course.

[ybk]

The R swingarm only uses one washer per side though? That would make the SP stack much wider than the R setup? (I'm probably missing something..)

[Warwick]

The oe R thrust washer is 4mm thick though, Karl - as is the total thickness of the 3 part bearing above (1mm washer - 2mm bearing - 1mm washer) - see pics. Logically it should work fine as a little R/RS model upgrade I reckon.

We'll know more when one of us gets round to actually fitting an arm with the alternative bearing back in the frame of course  .   

[ybk]

ha yeah    of course I'll see myself out now 

I'll get a set for my RS as well.

[Steveog]

Warwick - Yes. Thanks for the link to Bolton. I tried to source the exact thrust bearing through my local experts, but that brand didn't show up. I know they have the 4mm thrust washer stack, as I had the counter man source their suppliers.

Thanks for the offer to forward the AXK2542 bearing. Also, very kind to test it all out beforehand.

ybk - HA. Finally, I know your real name.

Work in the shop today wasn't too productive, did what I could cleaning parts, but I can't really use volatile cleaning products in a closed environment, heated occasionally with an open Propane Flame.

I do have a new question. The shift-shaft exits the left side of the case through a needle bearing and seal. It is very sloppy. I have the seal, but can't find it in the parts diagrams on Megazip. I can read the info on the bearing. Anybody have an OE part number for the bearing: IKO G6 Japan TL A12127. I'm sure you all know where this bearing is, but I attached a pic of it.     

[Warwick]

That bearing is not listed as an individual part in the parts book, Steve. Probably because they don't generally wear or need replacement. As Karl said, are you sure it's really worn? Needle rollers always feel loose when they have no shaft in them to load them. Unless there is physical damage or clear signs of wear to the rollers, it may well be fine to leave it as it is? It spends its entire life in an oil bath after all. If you really want to replace it though, you should be able to source the bearing in the US (ebay or whatever) using the IKO bearing number. Note that the bearing id is TLA1212Z though, not 7

If the bearing itself doesn't look physically damaged, replacing the seal alone will give the shaft a nicer, tighter feel. You should be able to find a good quality generic suitable seal online too I'd think? Just measure the dimensions and punch the numbers in. I'm sure there will be plenty of outlets like Simply Bearings: https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/login.php in the US? If not, the UK site offers pricing in US $ so I'd imagine they will ship to you? I ordered a pair of seals from them yesterday afternoon in fact and they arrived this morning, so they are pretty sharp. If you'd rather pay a bit more for a seal in a little Yamaha parts bag, the seal part number is 93102-12106. It's a common seal, so should be easily sourced. 

[Steveog]

Understand your point Warwick, but while many of the bearing in the engine are good to go, the shift shaft bearing is obviously "sloppy" and must "go" (IMHO). I loosely reinstalled the cassette plate and ran the shift shaft back throuh the case to make this judgement. Just guessing, but it wiggled, maybe 1mm in either direction, but that means a total of 2mm slop.

There is a similar bearing for the clutch actuation shaft. It has an OE Number.

I'm not disputing you or Karl's knowledge, but as we've discovered with the swing-arm pivot, there are things about this bike that are odd by normal standards.

I already have the Yamaha OE seal. I bought it with several other pieces, so the shipping of a single tiny piece isn't quite a stupid as it could have been.

Appreciate your tips on getting stuff cheaper, as my budget window gets closer to closing.

Also, thanks for correcting the bearing ID number. Big help. Yes. I can probably get this bearing locally. Just wanted validation that the OE part did not exist.

Looking forward to getting the frame and swinger back from my blaster/powder guy, tomorrow.

Will post pics.

Thanks, again

Steve

[Steveog]

Is that bearing worn out? I've never really had to replace that one, even on knackered engines. As far as I remember the bearing isn't listed in the part manual so you'll have to get it somewhere else. I found the gear shift linkages develop slack pretty easy which I think is the main source of problems. On my 10000km bike the joint on the shaft clamp is already loose. I usually weld them at the back which removes quite a bit of slack from the whole shifting action.

Sorry I missed your comment. I have no explanation why my shift shaft bearing would be so sloppy. Do you believe 2mm (guessing) movement at the bearing is OK? (I'll try to get some actual measurements and video.) The seal there was weeping (not leaking, per se'). It seems that the lateral force coming from the shift shaft would cause wear for everyone at that bearing. Again, I'm not disagreeing with you or Warwick. Your experiences with these bikes is far greater than mine. If I'm just being overly cautious, I certainly don't want to spend unnecessary money.

Thanks for the tip on the linkage. Mine is very sloppy on both ends. Yours is a simple, inexpensive fix.

Thanks for all your help, Karl.   

[SeaR1ck]

So what's the bearing info if it's not listed as a separate part from Yamaha?

[Steveog]

Rick - This is stamped on the bearing: IKO G6 Japan TL A1212Z. I have yet to get to the shop today. Plan on measuring the free play and shoot some video.

Thanks.

Steve

[Warwick]

So what's the bearing info if it's not listed as a separate part from Yamaha?

Do you mean the 'TLA1212Z' bearing id number, Rick?

[SeaR1ck]

Does it give dimensions on the race surface? Or just the bearing number for that manufacture.