3xv: Project Phoenix

[Martin77]

Yup.. they can be extremely fiddly to get apart and even worse to re-assemble. I suspect they get their end nipples soldered on in situ once placed into the splitter.

Have you ever made cables up before?

[Steveog]

Hi Martin. Negative on having made my own cables.

I've been in contact with another member who has had Motion Pro make up a dual-pull cable for a 3xv based on his own drawings.

As of now my cable bundle is somewhat afflicted with a few cable ties holding things in place, trying to keep them synchronous. The bundle needs replacing. I'll take it to the track as it is and look for alternatives after.

Good thinking?

Thanks.

Steve

[Martin77]

As long as you are 100% sure that the carbs will close quickly when you shut the throttle, then yeah, would be fine to use on track.

[Steveog]

All testing has shown good throttle pull and return. The only concern came with the comment that my idle may not be settling down due to throttle cable probs. The difference at idle is only about 300rpm. The carbs definitely snap shut. I believe I haven't yet tuned the air screws and idle circuits properly.

If the rain holds off, planning to get plug chops today. I'm thinking that with pre-mix, I should catch max revs, then pull clutch, hit the kill switch and get her stopped as soon as possible. Keep the coasting to a minimum. 

Thanks, as always.

Steve

[Martin77]

Coasting is no problem...the motor will be stopped anyway.  Sometimes I kill the motor too soon when I have a target parking spot, and have to tuck in and roll as far as possible!

Build up how long you hold it wide open for, until ultimately you can hold it flat in top for a while. This is not always condusive to polite motoring, but it's the only real way to get a sure plug chop. The plugs sometimes can take a good hammering before they start to show their true colour, what may look sweet in a 4th gear run, may look lean when held open on track for a few laps. This is the cautious approach. Basically, just make sure the plugs don't look too pale or even grey.

[Warwick]

As Martin says, coasting to a stop with the clutch in will be fine, Steve. The thing to avoid with premix is any extended period of higher revs but a closed throttle - think cruising down an incline on a closed throttle with the motor engaged. On the track this is seldom ever really an issue, but running the biggest pilots you can get away with while not impacting the pick up unduly can give a degree pf protection when barreling into a tighter corner on a closed throttle off a high speed straight.  But you can always blip the throttle on the downshifts for some extra lube and an old skool kool soundtrack in this situation of course... 

[Warwick]

Build up how long you hold it wide open for, until ultimately you can hold it flat in top for a while. This is not always condusive to polite motoring...

This made me laugh out loud 

Cheers, Captain!

[Martin77]

hah... we're both guilty of it...

[Steveog]

Good stuff, Boys. Warwick, I laughed at the "tuck and roll" comment. Fortunately, I use the state Highway I discussed earlier. Biggest concern there is the county police, AKA: Sheriff. They would definitely have a problem with a fourth gear, WOT pass being impolite motoring.

That said, Having done exactly that, the engine ripped from just above 6 to 11.5K, then stumbled all over itself trying to pull above that. I was expecting to find rich readings. The good news is both cylinders seemed balanced. Judge for yourself.

This WOT stumble could be the -00 box, but last year with the v.1 of this bike, I saw 12K+ several times. That was usually during the morning sessions or when air temps were well below those of today.

It definitely wants to be unbridled, Martin.

Today was very humid again, but air temps were down a bit. Based on your comments Warwick (today and earlier) and your's Martin (today), I feel as if I should jet up on the mains for the track. Currently: 200/270 to 210/280.

Opinions welcome, as always.

Grandson will be here soon, so no more shop time today.

Steve

[Warwick]

I don't see the speedo cable fitted, Steve? If it's not, remember that the -00 Cdi will be capping the fun at about 11.5k without any alternative arrangements to deal with the speedo restrictor.

[Steveog]

I've been running with no speedo cable since mid-summer, 2018. I know it's supposed to clamp-off power at 11.5K, but somehow that hasn't always been true. I've seen the tach swing to almost 13K. No explanation.

If you remember, my speedo had that sensor gizmo completely removed when I got the bike, so the speedo cable was having no effect, anyway.

During the build, I removed the gears in the front wheel that drive the speedo cable.

Never got the right version of the Posh Unit. Once it locked...well, new more expensive plans took over.

Looking forward to the Zeel.

Have a good weekend.

Steve

[Warwick]

Ah yes I remember now, Steve. You might sometimes see the revs on the tach, but I'd be pretty confident that a Dyno would show the drive dropping off a cliff at around 11,300 true RPM though with that set-up. I've tried it many times myself - you can see it on the -00 trace of the dyno shot I posted earlier (front wheel static on the dyno = restricted mode). It's really noticeable in use. It's a shame you don't have an unmolested speedo to plug in or the right Posh box to compare because the bike is very much nicer to use with the more rounded peak of the power curve that you get with the wiring all in place.

I guess yours could have some other kind of device fitted in the restrictor wiring somewhere of course? Did you trace the restrictro wiring through the loom when looking it over?     

Anyway, yes, the Zeel will sort all that of course     

[Steveog]

As always, thanks for your input. I plan to run the current configuration at the upcoming track day. I'll shift at 11K. Way too much work put into this build to not allow the -00 box to hold my reigns. A wise friend, suggested this approach. Semi-restricted Track time for a virgin build is a far better compromise than the expense of a huge mistake at this point in the bike's evolution.

Believe it will surprise a few 600's before we hit the straights. The power from 7-11K is a major upgrade.

I've entered as an intermediate. I've played in Novice up until now. Should be quite a lesson.

I'm not aware of any de-restricted wiring in the loom, but I did run my main power switch directly from the battery/magneto.

I'm guessing you agree to jet up on the mains. The plug chop looks text-book, but I'm thinking of Martin's warning of a 4th gear chop vs a long stretch of top gear WOT. The track we're riding definitely requires top gear in at least two places per lap.

I'm planning another chop at 4K/quarter throttle. That should give a clue about air/pilot jets. Yes?

Your continuing to monitor my progress is quite frankly is that of a friend.

Good evening.

Steve

[Martin77]

Personally, I would go up a size main jet initially, and then pencil in perhaps changing back down after a few sessions and it's proved itself.

Plug chops for lower throttle positions aren't worth doing in my experience, much better to just ride it to get a feel for clean running/crisp pick up from a closed throttle. Turn the screws and see what happens, then refine them in/out a bit until it feels nicest.

Careful in the intermediate class not to feel bullied by the bigger bikes.. find your feet, settle with the bike, relax.. enjoy it..

[Warwick]

Yeah, you'll be fine with the -00 unit for the time being. It's just a shame that you don't have the parts to hand to get the most from it while you continue development with it. On the other hand, fitting the Zeel when you get to that will be an immediately significant improvement even before you fully dial it in  .

I'm hesitant to offer any specific advice on main jetting because there are so many variables and your ambient conditions are very different to mine too.  And the consequences of getting it wrong are pretty expensive thesedays...  For reference only, the biggest main jetting we tried with that kind of set-up was around 300/260, but ended up with 250/210 as the optimum after a bit of road testing and a few runs on the dyno.  Logic suggests that your conditions might mean that you might need leaner jetting than me to get the best from it, but all you can ever sensibly do with jetting is start safely rich and work down in tested stages till you arrive at the point it will rev out cleanly, but keep a good plug colour under sustained 6th gear WOT testing (your 4th gear plug chops are not really enough of a test to confirm a safe main setting - as Martin notes, effective plug chopping on the road can be a little bit anti-social...    .

I'm not sure really if its a blessing or a curse, but with the -00 ignition and no doctored restrictor or plug-in de-limiter fitted it will be hard for you to get a good plug reading at the top in any case I reckon. If it's any reassurance though, the inherent tameness of the -00 ignition means that even with a delimiter fitted I never managed to melt a piston using the -00 despite some pretty heroic efforts  to do so... Without the limiter bypassed I'd think there it will be operating as an even bigger safety valve.

In you situation, I think I would be inclined to take a range of mains to the track and use the day as a set-up session, starting pretty rich and dropping a size between each session if the plugs and feel suggested that would be fine to do so. You'd need to take some care though, obviously.

And remember that you will need to start this process all over again - and proceed with even greater care - when you fit the Zeel.   

Good luck!