3xv: Project Phoenix

[Warwick]

Sounds really promising, Steve. Just the fine tuning now then really. Now you are running the hotter ignition and the motor is not being held back by the -00 (also operating in restricted 'rev-capping' mode) this is the stage where you will need to proceed with a bit of additional caution of course in order to avoid expensive motor failure due to detonation. The part throttle stuff you can only really do by feel, but keep a very close eye on the plugs when assessing the mains

Exciting, if daunting, times...   

[Martin77]

yeah, now you know what was hidden in the motor, just think how much better it's going to be on track..

Sounds to me like you will have to wind in the idle air screws to richen it up on low throttle openings. This is kinda normal, the pilot jet and air screws work in very slightly different areas, but with large overlap. What I mean is, #15 pilots with air screws 2 1/2 turns out might be similar to #12.5 pilots and air screws 1 turn out, but give slightly different throttle response at low openings. Basically, try things and see what works best, as Warwick says, do it by feel and take your time.

The Victory is not yet won... victory is crisp carburation, and surviving a trackday with a running engine..

[Steveog]

Thanks, gentlemen. Was hoping for your feedback.

Warwick - I know the technique for proper plug chops, but you've got me thinking that easing up for 12K chop in sixth gear might be done in a series of steps. 10K, 11K and 12K all in sixth. Checking the plugs with each step as I move up the rev range. This engine has never seen more than 11.5K (on the stock tach) and plug reading with the same plugs I have now were a nice golden brown. Just an idea. Seems as though it couldn't hurt.

I can also now calibrate the tach using the Zeel. Seems like an easy process. Phil clued me on the "how to" using the adjustment on the back of bike's tach.

Martin - Of course, you're right. I wasn't claiming victory in a serious way. I was joking, using a dark reference from an American Movie, "Apocalypse Now." Its a somewhat common phrase here in the US, specifically for those 40+ years of age. This engine made it through one track day, so far. But, never saw more than 10K.

Yes, I will try the air screws, first today. If going richer improves things, I may consider changing the pilot back to #15 and the needle back to #3 position. The bike ran better from 4K with these setting on the -00 box.

The PV's seem to be pretty close as there is a smooth, but aggressive power-up right at the point the Zeel is opening the PV's. They may need a fine tune (per Phil's suggestions), but I want the bottom cleaned up, first.

Time to hit the shop.

[Warwick]

I know the technique for proper plug chops, but you've got me thinking that easing up for 12K chop in sixth gear might be done in a series of steps. 10K, 11K and 12K all in sixth. Checking the plugs with each step as I move up the rev range. This engine has never seen more than 11.5K (on the stock tach) and plug reading with the same plugs I have now were a nice golden brown. Just an idea. Seems as though it couldn't hurt.

Certainly wouldn't hurt. Ultimately though it's more about load than simple revs per se.  Chopping the motor on a slight incline at max torque is always a good test, but, yeah, build up to it. And take you time. Better to be too rich than pushing the bike home...   

[Steveog]

Thanks. There's a nice gradual, mile long incline near our home. Will have to check the plugs tomorrow. Classic Indiana, summer thunderstorm headed our way.

It was only 28.8C here today. That could have made more difference than my minor jetting changes.

I did a bit of fiddling with the cables and air jets and got the bike to idle @ 1.2K. Pulled the slides up a bit and added 1/4 turn (IN) to the air screws. Pretty good from 5K to 12K. (Tach is now calibrated against the Zeel.) Its sluggish from just off idle. Should be snappier.

Although it means little, the plug is a bit oily when pulling in after my 3 mile loop. I can go to WOT in 3rd from 2K and it will pull with no hiccups, but again, doesn't get serious until 7K. Believe I ran into the rev limiter (set @ 12K). No, I'm not going to bump up the limiter, even though it wants to rev.

By the way, the track in Atlanta has large elevation changes. Should be a challenge.

[Steveog]

A couple of plug chops. 12K+ 6th gear. Series 10R plugs. It was still pulling, so I cut the power at the top of a hill. Probably 3-4 seconds at max revs. Ambient temps 29C. Humidity less than yesterday, but not by much. I found a road that was totally exposed to sun. No trees or corn fields.

I worked up to this. The earlier chops at 11K seemed to show slightly more color to the shade of tan than shown in these pics. It was a very close call for me to judge any real difference. I'm thinking this looks good to go. The forecast for Atlanta on Saturday is 32C and partly cloudy.

I'd turned the air screws in another 1/4 turn for these chops. The bike was harder to start, things got noticeably richer on the bottom end and the bike was bucking a bit at low rpm (under 3K, light throttle). I've since set the air screw back to 1 1/4 turns out. Plan on another test today. We load up tomorrow afternoon.   

Opinions welcomed.

Steve

[Martin77]

Agreed, plug looks fine from what I can see.

I bet you're relieved to avoid the attentions of the speed cops after those runs! bike must be flying now

Good luck for Atlanta, remember the tools, jets and plenty of bottle of water to drink!

[Steveog]

HA. Yes. It wasn't "polite motoring". The police around us here are County Sheriffs. They see many unlicensed off-road bikes and ATV's on these farm roads, but not one traveling 190+ kph.

The bike screams from 7K to the rev-limit of 12.5K. Its an all-new bike. So thankful to see it come this far. Its been almost a full year since it ate the crank and the decision was made to improve it, not just fix it.

As you know, I've had a lot of help. I won't ride it again in anger until we get to the track. We're pretty well stocked for these track days. Lots of water and energy food.

Thanks, again for all you help, support and goodwill.

Steve

[SeaR1ck]

Not sure if you've seen this before or not.

[Steveog]

No, I had only the most basic knowledge of plug-reading, Rick.

I believe my Mains are very close for our current ambient temps.

It's the idle and low rpm pick up where I'm having problems.

Thanks.

Steve

[Steveog]

Track Day Report: I'll keep it short, as I'm one tired 2T fan.

The day was hot (34C) and humid (91%).

The track was spectacular. Lots of technical sections, extreme elevation changes, plus a really long straight with a blind drop of at least 300 feet.

Roberts, Spencer, Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz and Hayden all raced here before going on to World Championships.

The 3xv needs help in the low end and mid-range. Specifically mid-range when run in anger at such a facility. All jetting issues. It was a banshee from 9-12.5K.

I could run down some the bigger 4T's in the tricky sections, but many of these riders had experience on this track. This was my virgin ride here. Needless to say they eventually would pull away.

One specific hill would run me into the rev limiter in 2nd, but felt like clawing up marshmallows in third. As I said, "More mid-range, please."

The good news is: The bike survived this extreme abuse and a motocross-like moment thanks to misjudging a blind corner entry. Picture Rossi/Stoner at Laguna Seca, but over at least 100 yards of grass. Riders who saw it said, "Great Riding." The corner Marshall said, "That was Fucking Dangerous."

Very happy, overall. Lots of tuning in my future.

Enjoy your Sunday.

Steve

[mellorp]

Welcome to a "normal" 2T track day :-) Expect the worst and enjoy it when it doesn't go wrong

[Steveog]

Phil: Yes.

Thanks for following my thread.

Steve

[Warwick]

It's always reassuring to return from the first serious/track test of a new motor with it all in one piece I reckon. Good stuff! Plenty of scope for playing around with the mid range carburation on the local roads, but bear in mind that the mains can have quite an effect here as well. I suppose the first thing to ascertain is if the issues stem from a too rich or too lean a condition there. 

As you have the Zeel fitted now, it's also worth thinking about how well matched the pre-programmed ignition and PV maps are for the tuned cylinders.  And bearing in mind that the -00 ignition and PV are set to give the maximum mid-range at the expense of top end. Judicious fiddling with the Zeel should allow you to get back most if not all of the -00s midrange though I expect.

It's a good day!     

[maccas]

Steve,

I just had a look at your PV curve. 100% at 9k will be fully opening the powervalve too soon I expect. Try 100% at 10k instead.
Your PV is opening too early too. Try 0% at 7k. That should get some of your bottom end back.

If you can get the bike on the dyno that will be the best way to set up the powervalve curve. Do repeated runs with the PV fixed at 0%, 10%, 20% etc. etc. then overlay the curves. The points where each curve crosses the next is your timing point.

One thing to bear in mind too is that with the 00 ignition, the airjets will be open at various throttle positions and revs. Now you are set up with them not coming on at all. You may need the airjets to get the bike fuelling well at part throttle before the bike gets up and onto the pipe. This isn't definitive of course. Try changing the PV curve first.

How did you arrive at your fully closed PV point by the way? I'd set the 0 point so that the powervalve is just about closing the sub-exhaust ports.

Dan