3XV1 - It had to start some time!

[AndyYam]

Hi all,

I'm Andy from West Sussex in the UK. I'll start with a bit of info about me and by bike history. I'm probably one of the younger 3XV owners at 29, meaning this bike was born a year after me. This is a novelty as my current bike is 4 years older. An 86 Rd350 F2.

I've owned that since I was 21 and could do the full UK license, selling my imaculate DT125RE 2005 to fund it.

As you can see my love affair with YPVS bikes started early and shows no sign of ending. I also have a DT200WR in a bit of state but thats another story.

Being born in 1990 I wasn't really aware of these bikes and so it wasn't really until a friend ended up buying a basket case TZR125RR series 3 4DL and asked for help, that I started sumbling across the 3XV. We got a bit confused with the series 3 4dl and the 4FL, hence finding out about the 3XV.

This was back in 2009 ish and it was love at first sight.  The 350 ypvs came up very cheap the day after passing my test and so I bought that. Then life got in the way and I had to save for a mortgage and then had to actually pay the mortgage every month, who'd have guessed!

Skip forward a few years and around circumstance changes and I always saw the 3XV prices rising beyond my reach. Then a jigsaw puzzle appeared on ebay that would wipe my savings but brought the owenership possibility withing my grasp and also within a reasnoable driving distance. I bit the bullet and made an offer. It was accepted and I bought a "complete bike" in pieces with a new set of marlboro fairings and a a spare set of stock pipes. The damage? £2250...

I know it will need a lot of work but I figured if I could buy and refurb things bit by bit then eventually I'll have my dream bike and not having had to hand over 6 grand in one go!

It since sat in pieces in my garage and other things have always taken priority. A couple of weeks ago I decided to change tactics. I'm going to build it back into a bike. Take stock of what I have, what I'm missing, what needs refurbing, what needs replacing and go from there. As the proverb goes, A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. I needed to take that first step and here we are.


So, where am i at now?

I've started to put the bike back together and admittidly I've not taken as many photos during this stage as I should have. I got fairly excited about seeing it as a bike so rushed it a little. I do not know much about the bikes at all and so the learning curve will be steep and if you are able to offer help, please accept my apologies for my inital ignorance and what may appear to be obvious questions.

Here is what I know/think I know!

It's a 1991 3XV1 based on frame numbers, 00 cylinders and head
It has a 3xv-01 CDI (Could anyone shed any light if this is correct for the bike)?
It has a NOVA reference.
The frame and engine numbers do not match (Is this normal? It seems 3XV is the original stamp then the rest has been stamped later.)
The engine has been sat out of the bike for a around 3 years but has been turned over by hand every now and then.
The tank has sat with a very rich mixture of 2T and petrol that has been swished around, also every now and then.

The engine appears to have suffered damage around the gear change shaft and been repaired at some point. I actually only noticed this when putting the engine back in the bike.

The swing arm end cap and body has suffered some chain damaged. I'm not sure how I can repair this at the moment.

Heres a bunch of photos. Please do comment, good or bad!

[Steveog]

I've had a 3xv1 for two and a half years. Outstanding bike. Wish I'd bought one in this condition, because even though mine was a working unit, I've since rebuilt or replaced almost every moving part. Mine is intended for track only use, but the story would be almost the same for a street-bike (the track bike is just abused constantly when used rather than a few trips up a country road).

I highly recommend you read through the 3xv projects here on the forum. Paul's and Mellorp's would be good starters. If you want to see what happened with my bike, that project thread might be good for a virgin to these exotics.

I wish you luck, but know your in for a serious investment in time and money. There are good (less expensive) workarounds for OE parts, but some crucial pieces must be purchased at retail prices. Some will be NLA. Ask the guys here for help on those "missing" parts. There are also good tips on where to buy parts in those project threads I mentioned.

Please do your research before spending money. Your time is free and the wisdom here will be a blessing.

Let us know how it goes with your "build".

My best from the USA. Welcome to the Forum.

Steve

[AndyYam]

So last night I spent a good few hours reading through Steve's Project Phoenix thread. It was incredible and gave me so much info and inspiration. Amongst other things it made me remember that my swing arm pivot bush had similar marks on so a full rebuild of that is going to have to happen by the looks of it.

I think I've put an order in with TSO for a loads of parts but have yet to pay or be told how much the shipping is. I selected paypal and it said it would send an invoice but I've not seen anything come through yet. Any ideas anyone?

I've also got the needle bearings and thrust bearings in the basket on simply bearings.

I can't find the keys so I'm going need to get a new ignition switch and filler cap. I have found an old Yamaha key that opens the filler cap but I'm sure it wasnt from the TZR as the ignition ket would have been with it. I think this was from a DT125R that i owned at some point.

It appears the bike was missing a few bits that I've noticed so far and I'm sure there will be others:

-Rear plastic luggage? box that goes inside the rear seat fairing (ordered one from a 4FL on ebay)

-Oil tank rubber cover (ordered one from a 4FL on ebay).

-Indicators.

-Rear brake hose clamp ( the little hook type one, must be easy to make)

-speedo cable

-tacho cable

[AndyYam]

I've had a 3xv1 for two and a half years. Outstanding bike. Wish I'd bought one in this condition, because even though mine was a working unit, I've since rebuilt or replaced almost every moving part. Mine is intended for track only use, but the story would be almost the same for a street-bike (the track bike is just abused constantly when used rather than a few trips up a country road).

I highly recommend you read through the 3xv projects here on the forum. Paul's and Mellorp's would be good starters. If you want to see what happened with my bike, that project thread might be good for a virgin to these exotics.

I wish you luck, but know your in for a serious investment in time and money. There are good (less expensive) workarounds for OE parts, but some crucial pieces must be purchased at retail prices. Some will be NLA. Ask the guys here for help on those "missing" parts. There are also good tips on where to buy parts in those project threads I mentioned.

Please do your research before spending money. Your time is free and the wisdom here will be a blessing.

Let us know how it goes with your "build".

My best from the USA. Welcome to the Forum.

Steve

Hi Steve,

thanks for your reply. As you've probably now seen, I read your thread last night. My fiance was amazed that I was reading something as I don't really do much reading of books. I literally sat there glued to the screen reading all 35 pages! When you're post came up to expplain your lock up my heart sank and then I was amazed at how calmly you picked up and carried on. Kudos!

I'm would like to say I'm well aware of the time and money that will go into this but I'm not sure I am yet! Haha! I'll be keeping a note of all costs so it will be interested to see what it sits at.

I'm not looking for a concourse bike, escpcially initally. I would just be happy to have a rideable bike. From there I may keep going but it depends where I'm at in the journey of life and jobs.

My initally intention was get the frame, swing arm etc powder coated and work my way up but if I did that it will never happen.

[AndyYam]

I should say I had initially put a post up on a Facebook group for TZR's and was pointed in this direction by a couple of top blokes who I now have on WhatsApp. Both have sent me some really useful photos and offered some great help and advice. I thank them both and am sure they're on here somewhere and will recogonise the pics but wont post their names without their permission.

to you both!

[AndyYam]

I do have a few questions at the moment and I'm sure plenty more to come. Hope some of you more experience guys can help. I will be reading through as many threads as I can so I'm sure I will find some of the answers but appreciate any pointers nonetheless.

1. Do the upper engine mounts push into the frame from the outisde or inside and should they have flat spots?

2. What the options for suspension? I'm guessing mine will need rebuilds at minimum, what would be your advice?

3. Are the standard brakes calipers good enough and are rebuild kits available?

4. Do you think I will be able to repair my swing arm. I will get some more photos this week, it has deep score marks from the chain around the end cap area.

5. Opinions on the engine damage/repair job?

[Warwick]

1. Don't know (never replaced any as they seem to last forever. Think I answered a question like that on FB?) I have a frame accessible at the moment though so if you want any pics to show what they should look like, just ask.

2. For the road the stock stuff is fine. Strip and rebuild the forks with fresh oil, maybe. If the shock is OK for damping, maybe just use it for the time being and think about something posh if you find you need it later?

3. Brake calipers are enough to throw you over the handlebars with two fingers if they are in good nick. good Caliper seal kits on ebay from Powerhouse. Make sure you get all the corrosion out of the seal grooves.

4. Chemical metal for the swinger if it has grooves cut? New oe end caps are still available. Check out Steve's Project Phoenix thread for all the bearing numbers - all generic.

5. The case repair looks a bit rough, but all that's in that bit of case is the shift shaft, so as long as it seals at the end and is strong enough, it'll probs be fine.

Cheers! Good to have a 'young 'un' on board! 

[ybk]

Welcome   Nice project

It has a 3xv-01 CDI (Could anyone shed any light if this is correct for the bike)?

to you both!

Maybe double check your CDI, don't think there is a -01, you probably have a -00 which is stock. The -10 is the SP box.

Re the chain chewing up the end cap, just replace the end cap. I've had spares bike that had chewed through the cap and through the swingarm right into the bearing. I donated that swingarm to a friend and as far as I know he had it welded up so yeah, not too bad.

Here is the engine mount on my bike, not sure if that clears it up (inside, outside)?

[AndyYam]

1. Don't know (never replaced any as they seem to last forever. Think I answered a question like that on FB?) I have a frame accessible at the moment though so if you want any pics to show what they should look like, just ask.

2. For the road the stock stuff is fine. Strip and rebuild the forks with fresh oil, maybe. If the shock is OK for damping, maybe just use it for the time being and think about something posh if you find you need it later?

3. Brake calipers are enough to throw you over the handlebars with two fingers if they are in good nick. good Caliper seal kits on ebay from Powerhouse. Make sure you get all the corrosion out of the seal grooves.

4. Chemical metal for the swinger if it has grooves cut? New oe end caps are still available. Check out Steve's Project Phoenix thread for all the bearing numbers - all generic.

5. The case repair looks a bit rough, but all that's in that bit of case is the shift shaft, so as long as it seals at the end and is strong enough, it'll probs be fine.

Cheers! Good to have a 'young 'un' on board! 

Hi Warwick,

Yes that would have been me on Fb too. I would have said yes please however YBK's pics semt o have cleared it up. They push through from the inside of the frame.

The shock makes an unusual whooshing noise on the rebound. I'm assuming its not supposed to do that. I'm going out in the garage for the afternoon so will get a little vid. Is getting it rebuilt a viable option or is it more advisable to buy a replacement?

Good news on the swinger and engine. I'm not looking for anyone to say yeah you'll never need to worry about that, just reassurance that its not a "chuck it and buy another" situation!

Cheers and it's good to be here!

[AndyYam]

Welcome   Nice project

It has a 3xv-01 CDI (Could anyone shed any light if this is correct for the bike)?

to you both!

Maybe double check your CDI, don't think there is a -01, you probably have a -00 which is stock. The -10 is the SP box.

Re the chain chewing up the end cap, just replace the end cap. I've had spares bike that had chewed through the cap and through the swingarm right into the bearing. I donated that swingarm to a friend and as far as I know he had it welded up so yeah, not too bad.

Here is the engine mount on my bike, not sure if that clears it up (inside, outside)?

Perfect! Mine are in the wrong way round haha which explains the gap on the inside of the frame between the engine mounts.

I don't think its gone through into the bearing yet. Fingers crossed im safe! Will report back!

[AndyYam]

My mistake, the CDI is 3XV-10 so that's an SP CDI. Are they still compatible with my model?

[Steveog]

Hi, Andy. You're starting to get advice from some of the gurus who helped me. Very good for you. If you saw my thread then my suspension mods are about as inexpensive as possible, but with obvious results. I'm now running 15wt fork oil, but haven't ridden it yet. 

The "wedge" for the rear spring really does stiffen things up without jacking up pre-load. If its making noise at the rear, again referring to my project: Take a look at the swing-arm pivot. You'll see that its a point of failure if not kept under control. The noise could be coming from the suspension movement. Its full of bearings and seals. If not, spray a bit of soapy water on the shock and look for air leaks. There are only a few places that air could escape or be sucked in.

As Warwick has hinted, a new shock is ideal...but the good ones are expensive. I'm still on the original. The stock shock can be re-built, but I'd avoid spending money for limited results. A modern shock is far superior to a brand new stock shock (unless you could a new SP unit). Even then, any top modern brand would out-perform Yamaha's gear from 28 years ago.

Concerning lock-ups. As you probably read, the stock "R" crank lower end bearing cannot be inspected, was probably parked outside in Japan and then sat in a warehouse just corroding a bit more with each passing year. September 11, 2018 was its last revolution. There are two solutions. 1) Have the stock crank rebuilt or 2) Get an SP Crank. I highly recommend the latter. I had a heat seizure in August of 2019 and the SP crank is still solid and worked beautifully that September. Important tip: If you hear any strange noises or the engine just does not "feel" right...pull the clutch. Coast to a stop. Call a buddy to come pick you up. Don't try to do anything to the bike until you get back to your shop.

Hang in there. Most of us know that the rewards of resurrecting one of these gems is almost as good as riding it.

Steve

[James P]

Good luck with your project Andy - I will watch your progress with interest.

I'm not a 3XV owner, so there will be others who can advise better than I. However, from reading a lot of submissions on the forum, it seems that SP-model CDI units (and exhausts too, I think) are more restrictive than early R-model items. I infer this was intended to negate the performance-improving effects of SP-model carb and porting differences, for compliance with the JDM 45ps limit (reduced to 40ps from around mid 1993 onwards).
Here is a link to a thread where the various 3XV (and some other) ignition characteristics are plotted for comparison: http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.msg49744#msg49744. You'll see that the 3XV-10 characteristic retards a lot quicker and further than the 3XV-00 characteristic from about 9500rpm onwards...yet has a fair bit more advance up to about 5500rpm.

JDM TZRs were not supplied with engine serial numbers until fairly late - I think the SPR was the first 3XV variant to have an engine serial number stamped (maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm). Earlier models simply had the basic model code prefix "3XV" marked on the engine casing, with space for the serial number left blank. Some countries require engine numbers, so it is likely that yours was stamped after importing. My own 1KT/2AW/2XT 'bitsa' had an engine number stamped in the blank space by the importer when the bike arrived in Australia - he just used the frame number as the engine number. The same applies for my SDR. It is thus a little surprising that your engine number is different to your frame number - could someone have exchanged engines at some point? You mention that the engine was out of the bike - maybe it was never 'in'...!

Let us know what you find out.

Regards,
James

[AndyYam]

Hi, Andy. You're starting to get advice from some of the gurus who helped me. Very good for you. If you saw my thread then my suspension mods are about as inexpensive as possible, but with obvious results. I'm now running 15wt fork oil, but haven't ridden it yet. 

The "wedge" for the rear spring really does stiffen things up without jacking up pre-load. If its making noise at the rear, again referring to my project: Take a look at the swing-arm pivot. You'll see that its a point of failure if not kept under control. The noise could be coming from the suspension movement. Its full of bearings and seals. If not, spray a bit of soapy water on the shock and look for air leaks. There are only a few places that air could escape or be sucked in.

As Warwick has hinted, a new shock is ideal...but the good ones are expensive. I'm still on the original. The stock shock can be re-built, but I'd avoid spending money for limited results. A modern shock is far superior to a brand new stock shock (unless you could a new SP unit). Even then, any top modern brand would out-perform Yamaha's gear from 28 years ago.

Concerning lock-ups. As you probably read, the stock "R" crank lower end bearing cannot be inspected, was probably parked outside in Japan and then sat in a warehouse just corroding a bit more with each passing year. September 11, 2018 was its last revolution. There are two solutions. 1) Have the stock crank rebuilt or 2) Get an SP Crank. I highly recommend the latter. I had a heat seizure in August of 2019 and the SP crank is still solid and worked beautifully that September. Important tip: If you hear any strange noises or the engine just does not "feel" right...pull the clutch. Coast to a stop. Call a buddy to come pick you up. Don't try to do anything to the bike until you get back to your shop.

Hang in there. Most of us know that the rewards of resurrecting one of these gems is almost as good as riding it.

Steve

Cheers Steve,

Yeah it's really great to have people with such a wealth of knowledge and the willingness to help!

I'll start with a fork rebuild and I'll start looking into rear shock options. The wedge you use I've not quite got my head around. It doest fall out?

The noise is 100% air passing something so i guess its rebuild or replace and seems like replace is the best bang for buck option.

With regards to the engine, my current plan is to get it running and see how it sounds, feels etc. I would only strip and rebuild if there was an issue. Is this a bad idea? I don't ride my bikes really hard and have never had any 2 strokes lock up or break as yet.

[AndyYam]

Good luck with your project Andy - I will watch your progress with interest.

I'm not a 3XV owner, so there will be others who can advise better than I. However, from reading a lot of submissions on the forum, it seems that SP-model CDI units (and exhausts too, I think) are more restrictive than early R-model items. I infer this was intended to negate the performance-improving effects of SP-model carb and porting differences, for compliance with the JDM 45ps limit (reduced to 40ps from around mid 1993 onwards).
Here is a link to a thread where the various 3XV (and some other) ignition characteristics are plotted for comparison: http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.msg49744#msg49744. You'll see that the 3XV-10 characteristic retards a lot quicker and further than the 3XV-00 characteristic from about 9500rpm onwards...yet has a fair bit more advance up to about 5500rpm.

JDM TZRs were not supplied with engine serial numbers until fairly late - I think the SPR was the first 3XV variant to have an engine serial number stamped (maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm). Earlier models simply had the basic model code prefix "3XV" marked on the engine casing, with space for the serial number left blank. Some countries require engine numbers, so it is likely that yours was stamped after importing. My own 1KT/2AW/2XT 'bitsa' had an engine number stamped in the blank space by the importer when the bike arrived in Australia - he just used the frame number as the engine number. The same applies for my SDR. It is thus a little surprising that your engine number is different to your frame number - could someone have exchanged engines at some point? You mention that the engine was out of the bike - maybe it was never 'in'...!

Let us know what you find out.

Regards,
James

Hi James,

Thanks for following. It's great to know that people are interested!

Thanks for the info on the CDI thats a great thread. There is so much on this forum that I really do need to keep reading as Steve and the other guys suggest. As long as my CDI works with the bike thats good enough for me. I'm not going to be racing and I'd imagine it will be a while off that I need more power.

That makes a lot of sense about the numbers. I have a DT200WR project and the engine numbers are just the 3xp prefix. I've no idea where that bike came from though!

It's quite possible that the engine was replaced at some point. I have the paperwork from SA and the frame and engine numbers match on that. It shows 1997 as a date of somekind but specifies its not the date of manafactuar ofcourse. But yeah the engine was definitely the one inside the bike when it came to the UK.