Derestricting my TZR 250 3XV RS

[SouthCoastRich]

Are those parts laid out on puppy training piss pads???
If not, apologies, they look like it!

Yes, I don't need them now, been very good lately.

Just saves the carpet and it easy to spot wayward bolts etc.

[bulldogboy]

Ingenious 

[Steveog]

Dropping the engine isn't a huge hassle, Rich. Reinstalling it (solo) can be a bit tricky. I use a floor jack intended for raising an entire, small bike. Blocking the engine to be square with the primary engine mounts, then easing it into place. Sorry, I don't have a picture.

Unfortunately, I've had too much practice using this technique, but is good for a one man operation.

Good luck

Steve

[SouthCoastRich]

Dropping the engine isn't a huge hassle, Rich. Reinstalling it (solo) can be a bit tricky. I use a floor jack intended for raising an entire, small bike. Blocking the engine to be square with the primary engine mounts, then easing it into place. Sorry, I don't have a picture.

Unfortunately, I've had too much practice using this technique, but is good for a one man operation.

Good luck

Steve

Thanks Steve. This helps!

Some considerations. The bike's on its side stand and I don't have paddock stands to have it square. I also don't have a (suitable) second pair of hands nor a suitable jack and I don't have a suitable place/means of holding the engine out of the bike.

I'll attempt this in the frame and it I get stuck I'll look at the above and switch tactics. 

[mellorp]

Not sure if this works for the 3XV, but on the RGV I position the motor on it's nose with the bottom rear engine mount inline with the frame. Wiggle that into place using a long screwdriver, then using that as a pivot swing the motor up at the front and  into place. Fix the top rear engine bolt, then remove the long (loose fitting) screwdrive and insert the bottom engine bolt. No jack(et) required !!

Jack can be had from srewfix or toolstation  for not a lot. Well worth the money
https://www.screwfix.com/p/hilka-pro-craft-2-tonne-trolley-jack/7504g
https://www.toolstation.com/hydraulic-trolley-jack/p12136

[SouthCoastRich]

Not sure if this works for the 3XV, but on the RGV I position the motor on it's nose with the bottom rear engine mount inline with the frame. Wiggle that into place using a long screwdriver, then using that as a pivot swing the motor up at the front and  into place. Fix the top rear engine bolt, then remove the long (loose fitting) screwdrive and insert the bottom engine bolt. No jack(et) required !!

Jack can be had from srewfix or toolstation  for not a lot. Well worth the money
https://www.screwfix.com/p/hilka-pro-craft-2-tonne-trolley-jack/7504g
https://www.toolstation.com/hydraulic-trolley-jack/p12136

Hmmm, that's not bad prices. Thanks Phil.  I'm sure that RGV technique will work thinking about it, but in terms of workshop (oops, garage) upgrades, I'm planning a hoist fixed to a wooden joist to help with replacing the rear shock. Another thread for another day, but belt & braces it could be feasible to provide support for the engine from above too (if only to stop it rolling off a jack  )

[AndyYam]

Rich,

If you want, you are welcome to borrow my paddock stands (rear goes under the swing arm flats at the end and I've got the front that lifts by the Headstock. My 21mm pin has now arrived too.

My frame, swing etc are all at the powder coaters so they are just taking up garage space for a good few weeks. I'll be driving from Oxford to Worthing Friday evening. I'll be short on time but could easily meet you just off the M27 or Sunday evening same thing as I'll be doing Worthing>Winchester>Worthing.

Drop me a whats app if it helps.

I would offer my EZlift stand to lower/raise the engine in but mine is currently on it and its also effing heavy to lift in n out of the car and very greasy!

If you ever see a 2nd hand one. They are really nice bits of kit.

New link here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-lift-Motorbike-stand-Eazyrizer-Original-Red-Guaranteed-Life-/254796446309?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=Cj0KCQjwqKuKBhCxARIsACf4XuE9_7MJFqPLST65N4J4VDFquKgj7ye1xCmIs7_Oj2vzHEFU38x6Te0aAoyeEALw_wcB

[SouthCoastRich]

Well it had to happen. I screwed up big time. 

Plan was to get the heads and barrels off tonight but it's gone badly and I need some help.

I got everything off the head, then all the nuts off the head, but the head wouldn't come off the barrel. Never mind, crack on. PV covers and mechanism off to gain clearance to the four nuts holding the barrel on. PV doesn't slide out, but look at that later, crack on. The cylinder bolts were pretty tight but a 10mm ring spanner and a couple of taps and they came loose enough for a socket to turn it.

All apart from 1 nut, and this is how I screwed it up: Ring spanner on, tap tap, then 10mm socket as before, but was still stuck. Try again, stuck. Grab the impact driver and give it a few blasts and disaster. The 3/8ths socket I was using split and has damaged the nut, rounding it so not even the ring spanner can bite on it. I'm so annoyed because I have a proper daddy of a 10mm socket on 1/2 inch drive but I used the stupid weak socket.

Help.

How do I get this nut off?

[Warwick]

If the nut is hard to get at currently. leave things as they are and drop the motor out so that you can sort it more easily when you can more easily get at it. 

It's very definitely worth getting a rear paddock stand, or just use suitable blocks or axle stands to hold the bike square upright using the swinger.  It's horrible trying to drop the motor on the side-stand. And even worse putting it back in again.

The motor isn't especially heavy. It ls easier to remove with an assistant, but it's pretty easy to do it alone really. If doing it alone, I just remove the front mounts, pop a support under the engine (block of wood or something) and then remove the upper rear mount. It may well not even want go anywhere at this point if the lower rear mount is tight. If you cant lower the front of the motor down with the upper bolt removed, just loosen the lower mount while holding the motor with the other hand to allow you to lower the front of the motor to the ground (onto some sponge or something is always good). Then pop the lower mount bolt out, still supporting  the motor and lower the rear of the motor to the ground. 

Then pop the kettle on.   

[AndyYam]

Well it had to happen. I screwed up big time. 

Plan was to get the heads and barrels off tonight but it's gone badly and I need some help.

I got everything off the head, then all the nuts off the head, but the head wouldn't come off the barrel. Never mind, crack on. PV covers and mechanism off to gain clearance to the four nuts holding the barrel on. PV doesn't slide out, but look at that later, crack on. The cylinder bolts were pretty tight but a 10mm ring spanner and a couple of taps and they came loose enough for a socket to turn it.

All apart from 1 nut, and this is how I screwed it up: Ring spanner on, tap tap, then 10mm socket as before, but was still stuck. Try again, stuck. Grab the impact driver and give it a few blasts and disaster. The 3/8ths socket I was using split and has damaged the nut, rounding it so not even the ring spanner can bite on it. I'm so annoyed because I have a proper daddy of a 10mm socket on 1/2 inch drive but I used the stupid weak socket.

Help.

How do I get this nut off?

It doesnt look completely rounded to me. A good file might be able to take the edges off a bit and create some flat edges again.

Whilst you do that get some more penetrating oil on it if you havn't already and make sure you warm it up before you attacked it again.

If you can find a socket that gets a good grip try tightening a little first. just enough to move it. It might break the hold it has on the thread.

Are you using impact sockets (matt black) or standard sockets? They're not designed to deal with impact.

I have a full set of impact sockets also if needed.

If you get really stuck then kits like this can come in handy. They don't always work though - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Impact-Remover-Pieces-Extractor-Socket/dp/B07RNZBT3F/ref=asc_df_B07RNZBT3F/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=345504185242&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3719114491970996142&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007259&hvtargid=pla-760459423337&psc=1

[Steveog]

+1 on both Warwick and Any's comments, Rich.

The extractor sockets are a good investment (but you don't need the whole set). Also, a proper rear stand or even automotive style "Jack Sands" will make engine extraction much easier.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tough-2-Ton-Jack-Stand-T42002W-2/48580163?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222222036054905&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=10359693274&wl4=pla-1103075658389&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&wl10=Walmart&wl11=Online&wl12=48580163_0&wl14=jack%20stands&veh=sem&msclkid=257985d5f9d31dec9545e49e5803fc5b&gclid=257985d5f9d31dec9545e49e5803fc5b&gclsrc=3p.ds

Good Luck.

Steve

[SouthCoastRich]

If the nut is hard to get at currently. leave things as they are and drop the motor out so that you can sort it more easily when you can more easily get at it. 

It's real easy to get to, it's on the lower cylinder. So that's the forefront of my mind, engine in or out, I need to get the bugger off!

It doesnt look completely rounded to me. A good file might be able to take the edges off a bit and create some flat edges again.

Whilst you do that get some more penetrating oil on it if you havn't already and make sure you warm it up before you attacked it again.

If you can find a socket that gets a good grip try tightening a little first. just enough to move it. It might break the hold it has on the thread.

Are you using impact sockets (matt black) or standard sockets? They're not designed to deal with impact.

I have a full set of impact sockets also if needed.

If you get really stuck then kits like this can come in handy. They don't always work though - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Impact-Remover-Pieces-Extractor-Socket/dp/B07RNZBT3F/ref=asc_df_B07RNZBT3F/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=345504185242&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3719114491970996142&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007259&hvtargid=pla-760459423337&psc=1

I've taken your advice here and gone for the extractor set and yes I did use the wrong socket on the impact driver, this is a foul up all of my own making.

+1 on both Warwick and Any's comments, Rich.

The extractor sockets are a good investment (but you don't need the whole set). Also, a proper rear stand or even automotive style "Jack Sands" will make engine extraction much easier.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyper-Tough-2-Ton-Jack-Stand-T42002W-2/48580163?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222222036054905&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=10359693274&wl4=pla-1103075658389&wl5=&wl6=&wl7=&wl10=Walmart&wl11=Online&wl12=48580163_0&wl14=jack%20stands&veh=sem&msclkid=257985d5f9d31dec9545e49e5803fc5b&gclid=257985d5f9d31dec9545e49e5803fc5b&gclsrc=3p.ds

Good Luck.

Steve

Thanks Steve, a consensus on these extractors is what I've gone with, plus a 10mm walldrive socket too (rated for impact driver), as this shouldn't be affected by the rounded corners.


Thanks for the offers and suggestion on the lifts & stands. I will be going down this route but for now, I need to get this barrel off as priority 1, then work out why the head won't come off, then work out why the PV won't come out. All of this is hanging in the breeze on the lower cylinder so I'm going to focus on that -  If I can't get that done, little else matters.

[Warwick]

To draw the Powervalve out, the piston crown needs to be fully below the bottom of the exhaust port. This allows you to turn and kind of wiggle the PV out of the left (connector) side. It'll be self explanatory when you've done it once. Both caps need to be removed first, of course.

The head is probably just stuck to the gasket. A few sharp taps on the side of the head with a wooden hammer handle or similar will likely loosen it, but you can take the cyl and head off together and remove the head later of course.

A slightly smaller than 10mm tight fitting old imperial socket tapped on to the nut with a hammer will often allow you to get a stuck nut off if you have any such sockets to hand? Bit of a bodge, so don't beat it to death of course if trying this. Often works well enough though. Those special 10mm spanner 8mm thread cylinder base nuts are NLA from Yamaha I think?     

[Steveog]

I have a couple of those 10mm cylinder nuts if you need them, Rich. Just PM me your address. 2 X Nuts and shipping will be covered.

Yeah, I know: "I'm Mr. Generous" with an envelop. Don't expect the same deal on a piston kit. HA.

Good Luck

Steve

[SouthCoastRich]

To draw the Powervalve out, the piston crown needs to be fully below the bottom of the exhaust port. This allows you to turn and kind of wiggle the PV out of the left (connector) side. It'll be self explanatory when you've done it once. Both caps need to be removed first, of course.

The head is probably just stuck to the gasket. A few sharp taps on the side of the head with a wooden hammer handle or similar will likely loosen it, but you can take the cyl and head off together and remove the head later of course.

A slightly smaller than 10mm tight fitting old imperial socket tapped on to the nut with a hammer will often allow you to get a stuck nut off if you have any such sockets to hand? Bit of a bodge, so don't beat it to death of course if trying this. Often works well enough though. Those special 10mm spanner 8mm thread cylinder base nuts are NLA from Yamaha I think?     

Thank you Warwick - you've solved two immediate worries there.  I was on the edge of despair for a while and as usual had no idea about these things 

I do have some imperial sockets so that's a good shout. I also have the socket extractor arriving today and a replacement impact screwdriver (my old one I used for my last project, a ZR50-X1 back in 1986, has long since been lost/stolen/lent & not returned/gifted)

I have a couple of those 10mm cylinder nuts if you need them, Rich. Just PM me your address. 2 X Nuts and shipping will be covered.

Yeah, I know: "I'm Mr. Generous" with an envelop. Don't expect the same deal on a piston kit. HA.

Good Luck

Steve

PM sent - Thank you Steve. I had no idea these would be NLA. I'll PayPal your generosity in return