Derestricting my TZR 250 3XV RS

[rz500guy]

Wow. Takes a good person to show and ask about an incident like this. Lucky man. Looked like you got knocked out for a while. How long was it before you got up and when did you realize what condition you were in? How cold was it when you were out. There will be a lot of answers and let us all keep it friendly. I can not believe the two people just walking down the street oblivious to what just happened.

Just from my short watch it looked spinning before that area of smooth concrete and then grabbed. You had oil or water on the tire or ran over water or something before then. I am surprised the rear kicked up in the air so much when it grabbed at that speed also. Count your blessing you were not in the windshield of that car. Is the rear shock standard and was it set up for you. No matter what tire you had a bit of water would have probably done the same thing.

Thanks for sharing and all I can say is thank goodness you had decent gear on. I do not think an air bag would have deployed in that incident. I am going to ask my Alpinestar tech if you do not mind me sharing. Also send it to a few of my instructors. Will watch again and see if notice anything else and again I am glad you are on the mend.

[rz500guy]

Just watched again. Looked like a recent patch was done on the road where it spun up. Probably slick as could be with oil coming out. Especially with a bit of water the oil will be on the surface. Let us see what others think

[SouthCoastRich]

Wow. Takes a good person to show and ask about an incident like this. Lucky man. Looked like you got knocked out for a while. How long was it before you got up and when did you realize what condition you were in? How cold was it when you were out. There will be a lot of answers and let us all keep it friendly.

Just from my short watch it looked spinning before that area of smooth concrete and then grabbed. You had oil or water on the tire or ran over water or something before then. I am surprised the rear kicked up in the air so much when it grabbed at that speed also. Count your blessing you were not in the windshield of that car. Is the rear shock standard and was it set up for you. No matter what tire you had a bit of water would have probably done the same thing.

Thanks for sharing and all I can say is thank goodness you had decent gear on. I do not think an air bag would have deployed in that incident. I am going to ask my Alpinestar tech if you do not mind me sharing. Also send it to a few of my instructors. Will watch again and see if notice anything else and again I am glad you are on the mend.

It was about 50F out, and there was four people on the scene in about 20 seconds getting me on my feet, I'd rather have sat in the road for 5 mins! I think I shut the throttle off (can't really remeber) which is why the tyre was able to grip? You make a good point, the tyre was grippy to get that effect, so being new wasn't a big factor.

Quite right I was lucky on the timing, had that oncoming car been a bit further down the road I would have met the front of it rather than the side. I shudder to think.

The rear shock is a rebuilt SP one, at standard compression and rebound (I'm 75kg so it should be good for road riding).

I would be really interested in if an airbag would have gone off. My ribcage hit the tank on my way off the bike so I'm guessing it'd have to be a bike signalled airbag rather than a stand alone suit activated one?? Please share and I'd be interested in the conclusions from the techs 

Just watched again. Looked like a recent patch was done on the road where it spun up. Probably slick as could be with oil coming out. Especially with a bit of water the oil will be on the surface. Let us see what others think

Yes, that's something I handn't considered. I thought it was going from new to smooth tarmac.

I'm glad I got the footage from the car behind in this. It shows I waited until there was a huge gap in the traffic, enough for the car behind to get out also!

I hope by sharing I not only explain the cause of the damage for fixing the bike, but also get some insights on how this happened.

[oldiggy]

Nasty ! I ran the video at .25 speed and looks like you're rear tyre has a shiny patch like you had stopped on some fluid at the junction ?

[SouthCoastRich]

Nasty ! I ran the video at .25 speed and looks like you're rear tyre has a shiny patch like you had stopped on some fluid at the junction ?

That may be the new tyre but contaminants seems to be a thing I've overlooked. It was a dry morning and about 10 degrees and I didn't see any water / oil or smell any diesel

[Warwick]

With such low revs and throttle load I think I'd be suspecting something on the tyre if nothing really obvious on the road. It looked dry, so I think only gravel might be a road surface possibility, perhaps?  But could the carbs have been overflowing a bit perhaps? Or some other kind of leak from the bike itself maybe? Really weird for it to let go like that without soime kind of lubricating help?

Nasty little off whatever the cause. Hope you and the bike heal well. 

[jamietzr250r]

Dude so sorry, just read thread, big bummer. Watched crash vid, I've seen this before looks to me like cold tyres on bad road surface.....

[ybk]

Wow, that is a comprehensive crash analysis! Hope you're on the mend already

Had a similar incident with a new tyre on a RG250 once (minus the oncoming car..). Just a normal turn, even on-camber and just let go and gripped again in a similar way. My vote is new tyre related perhaps in combination with some gravel?

[SouthCoastRich]

With such low revs and throttle load I think I'd be suspecting something on the tyre if nothing really obvious on the road. It looked dry, so I think only gravel might be a road surface possibility, perhaps?  But could the carbs have been overflowing a bit perhaps? Or some other kind of leak from the bike itself maybe? Really weird for it to let go like that without soime kind of lubricating help?

Nasty little off whatever the cause. Hope you and the bike heal well. 

Everything on the bike was tight as, in fact I'd go so far as to say... it was finished 

The grey tarmac is much smoother than the black tarmac, I did some tests using my road car and I can light up the rears on that bit but not before. May have been something on the road but it's more slippery on that section too. Thanks for the good wishes - bike parts are on order and me parts are being fixed for free (well, more time needed on the cracked ribs!)

Dude so sorry, just read thread, big bummer. Watched crash vid, I've seen this before looks to me like cold tyres on bad road surface.....

Thanks Jamie & thanks for the call, catch up soon mate 

Wow, that is a comprehensive crash analysis! Hope you're on the mend already

Had a similar incident with a new tyre on a RG250 once (minus the oncoming car..). Just a normal turn, even on-camber and just let go and gripped again in a similar way. My vote is new tyre related perhaps in combination with some gravel?

Getting better, at least the bruising is gone now so I can sleep!!

I think the thoughts here are right, it's a combination of the low grip section, new tyre, cold tyre and bad luck.

Did you manage to save the RG? I think given another 6-10ft width I'd have been ok and saved mine.

[ybk]

Did you manage to save the RG? I think given another 6-10ft width I'd have been ok and saved mine.

hehe thankfully yes, wasn't my bike so relief was felt! If I remember(I don't) then I usually roughen new tyres with some 80 grit. Yep I reckon if it weren't for the oncoming car you would have recovered that one 

[SeaR1ck]

Bummer heal up bikes are replaceable fixable you aren't so much. It's when you hit the car is when you hurt yourself.

Cold Tyre looks like it was morning? Maybe some moisture in the air still. Could have been some dew on the road surface cold pavement.

This is where all my years of dirt biking would have paid off. You get real used to tyres breaking traction. Your tyre spinning up feeling. Hard Braking and handle bars swapping. Throttle control. Really helps you develop the feel for what the bike is doing. Why all the top motogp guys cross train with it.

I "might" have been able to stop it with a foot dab with the right foot. Right after the tyre spun let off the gas and hit the front break. Might have dropped the bike though. But probably not hit the car.

Looks like when the tyre broke traction then hooked back up. You whiskey throttled when your balance was thrown off and went into the car.

[SouthCoastRich]

Did you manage to save the RG? I think given another 6-10ft width I'd have been ok and saved mine.

hehe thankfully yes, wasn't my bike so relief was felt! If I remember(I don't) then I usually roughen new tyres with some 80 grit. Yep I reckon if it weren't for the oncoming car you would have recovered that one 

Getting those tyres pre-scrubbed is something I'd never heard of apart from once the Ducati dealer did that on my Multistrada. I'll be doing that from now on just to add a margin of safety. 

[SouthCoastRich]

Bummer heal up bikes are replaceable fixable you aren't so much. It's when you hit the car is when you hurt yourself.

Cold Tyre looks like it was morning? Maybe some moisture in the air still. Could have been some dew on the road surface cold pavement.

This is where all my years of dirt biking would have paid off. You get real used to tyres breaking traction. Your tyre spinning up feeling. Hard Braking and handle bars swapping. Throttle control. Really helps you develop the feel for what the bike is doing. Why all the top motogp guys cross train with it.

I "might" have been able to stop it with a foot dab with the right foot. Right after the tyre spun let off the gas and hit the front break. Might have dropped the bike though. But probably not hit the car.

Looks like when the tyre broke traction then hooked back up. You whiskey throttled when your balance was thrown off and went into the car.

I did the ribs coming off the bike when I hit the car. I nailed the tank on the way off. I thought it was just bruised ribs so have carried on doing as usual but this weekend they have got worse so must be cracked and I'll need to do the 6 week rest thing.

Cold tyre seems to be a big pointer here, as ambient was 50F, and all the other rides in the video are the same distance from my house, but undoubtedly warmer ambient and I would not have been crawling around slow with used tyres, so getting heat into them would have been more likely. The only exception was the run with my son's Bandit. That had new tyres on and the turn is the same distance from where I started in all clips.

I'm pretty sure I was neutral or off gas during the slide and after, I deduced this from the RPM on the rider cam at this point in the video https://youtu.be/Kfgx_rPaYH8?t=198. After that I was either getting pinged out the seat (naturally closing the throttle at that angle) or I was on the front brake. Difficult to see and harder to remember.

One thing that would have made a significant difference though is riding dirt bikes. You're spot on correct there that this may be the missing piece in my experience. I've never drifted the rear, or needed to control that as a consequence. Had I got that off road experience I  may have been able to collect it earlier in the initial slide. I doubt the missus will see this as a compelling argument to get a CRF mind you 

[SouthCoastRich]

I have a replacement nose cone to fit & paint. Massive thanks to Gav, basically the forums arms dealer of TZR parts, for finding this in Japan and navigating the purchase and delivery. Thanks fella, really appreciated.

I also have the replacement gear lever brand new from Yamaha (taking the 10% forum discount) from Andy at Webbs. Don't panic buy one of these, there's 7,499 still in stock in Japan!!!

Lastly Maidstone Motoliner have done a brilliant job on the front end. They straightened the following

Front wheel
Front disc
Front wheel spindle
Both forks
Both yokes

The yokes and wheel were most out apparently, and MM touched up the paint on the forks and wheel plus everything they stripped to go into jigs they reassembled. All of this £350 plus VAT which I think is a bloody bargain considering the alternatives.

I can do light work on the bike but without a bench things will have to wait a while til the ribs can handle all the crawling around. This bike will be finished, I am determined

[rz500guy]

Just home and saw where someone slowed video down. I forgot all about that. After watching it slower looks like you followed the cut in the asphalt all the way to where it went to a vee. Appeared to be water in the entire crack and even more in the vee. Was water as most think that started the slide. Second thing is the rear shock. Looks to me your spring is soft and your rebound is set to hard or fast. That rear squatted a lot, I mean all the way down, and in a split second it went fully extended. You were just a passenger at that point. At that speed to have the rear wheel come all the way off the ground seem a bit much. Then when it came down the second time it started all over again. It compressed all the way down and went straight back up taking you out of the seat. You need to show that video to a good local suspension guy close to you. Someone that does race bike stuff. I just sent video to one of my suspension guys. My normal race guy opens at 10AM. Too my novice opinion,  your spring is too light with too much preload on it and your rebound is set way, way too fast. I will tell you how to check the spring it pretty easily and you will need assistance or other eyes for the rebound check.