The IC inside the CDI

[Louis]

Another small question.

Looking at your IC drawing

It looks like the pickup signal is directly on the pin number?
On the original it gets his signal from a T2333

If the engine stops, should there not be a signal to set the IC back for his starting point?
Like the Reset pulls on pin 18 (given by a another T2333)

Originla the Ypvs drive signal is going to a Bridge?

My point/question
Do we use the original signal's (only the one's we need) on the new PIC
ore are we trying to get hour signals somewhere on the board it self? (sodering wires)

[tzr-v4]

Hi Louis

The purpose of my drawing is just to summarize what you have found looking closely at the OEN CDI.
At the end this will help us for the routing on the new IC pins.

For sure the DC motor which drives the YPVS box is not directly connected to the IC... there is a H-bridge in between.
Same for Ignition signal which drives the spark...

This is why we need the experimental measurements while the bike is running.

We want to use all the OEM components from the YAMAHA CDI except the IC. so we need to replicate the output signals and be sure that the input signals will not damage the new IC (PIC).

For example to drive the spark generation, we need to know if the OEM IC output signal is :
- case A : signal is normally low 0V and goes high 5V for some time then goes low again. Rising edge drives the spark.
- case B : signal is normally high 5V and goes low 0V for some time then goes high again. Falling edge drives the spark.

For the solenoid you will also find some components maybe the other bridges to drive the 12V from the 5V output signals (IC pin can not drive a lot of current).
 

[4l04ever]

The YPVS position should be related to RPM, but it may also be affected by other signals such as TPS (Throttle position).   This can better be found when you have the simulated engine running.   You can also draw up a nice graph showing YPVS position against revs. :-)

[tzr-v4]

The YPVS position should be related to RPM, but it may also be affected by other signals such as TPS (Throttle position).   This can better be found when you have the simulated engine running.   You can also draw up a nice graph showing YPVS position against revs. :-)

Yes for sure at the end but to do some testing of the new IC and firmware.
This test will validate :
- the TPS capture
- the YPVS position capture
- the YPVS motor driving.

To go further... test the capture of RPM signal to drive the YPVS at least as good as the OEM CDI...

[4l04ever]

I do have some information on making a CDI.....including circuits for converting pickup signals to TTL 5V levels suitable for processor inputs....

[tzr-v4]

I do have some information on making a CDI.....including circuits for converting pickup signals to TTL 5V levels suitable for processor inputs....

From the pickup signal OK, Can you share?

Did you try it doing the same on the Yamaha Orange wire driving the coil and also going to the tachometer ?

I'll be interested in for adapting other tachometer to my bikes...

[Louis]

Hello Olivier,

The purpose of my drawing is just to summarize what you have found looking closely at the OEN CDI.
At the end this will help us for the routing on the new IC pins.

Ok sorry I didn't know the meaning of your drawing, thought it was the end drawing

We want to use all the OEM components from the YAMAHA CDI except the IC. so we need to replicate the output signals and be sure that the input signals will not damage the new IC (PIC).

Yes that is exactly the plan

Today the speed controller for my ignition tester came in.


I hooked it up at my microdrill and tried it. It does work, but not that good as I thought
Perhaps the microdrill engine is to small to be controlled by that (big) controller
So hopefully it will do better on my (bigger) ignition tester engine

Have a little bid time this Saturday, if all goes well the ignition tester will work

[jools]

Louis,

perhaps another solution might be to remove the variable speed control from the micro drill and house it in a box and incorporate a digital tacho somehow ?

A lot more work, but you will be using the control designed for that motor.

[Louis]

Hello Jools,

Thanks for the tip, but it looks like its working perfect

Today I connected the speed engine controller at the ignition tester (device).
And its spinning like a kitten, can use any rpm

http://www.tzr3ma.com/start-build.html

So one small worry is gone for me, will try to mound the pickup on his location this Saturday.
And than I should have a working ignition tester to controle the 00-CDI

Slowly but steady Getting there

[tzr-v4]

Good progress Louis.
Tomorrow I'm lecturing 8hours on C# windows programming and Saturday at work for the award ceremony...

So week-end will be short but next week seems clearer 

[Louis]

Thanks Olivier,

Tomorrow I'm lecturing 8hours on C# windows programming

Just for my interest, on how high level do you teach (university?)

So week-end will be short but next week seems clearer

Ok, don't worry. These projects wont run away by them self

Have Saturday a bid time for my self, so if the tester is working will connect it to see how that goes
(and connect a 3MA tacho meter just for indication rpm)

With a bid off luck my frame and swingarm for the project three bike will be ready.
In that case, I'll be busy with that to

[tzr-v4]

Yes I'm lecture at Master of Sciences level in a French school of engineering.
My research topics are in the field of robotics, mechatronics, image processing...

I've at home and at the school lab some stuff to emulate the rpm signal in TTL format (0-5v).
So I can test the PIC programming.
The idea is to get the rpm signal captured by the PIC and from this capture compute the spark retard.
Spark signal will be simulated by a flash led on the output.
I could check both signals rpm and spark on the double trace oscilloscope.
I could also send the data through a serial link to my PC application to save the experiment and plot the CDI curve.

I'm looking for spare a damaged TDR250 ignition to test at home.
My TZR250 2MA spare one is not easy to open as the box is fully potted.
And very reluctant to open my 2XT box...

Will try to look at your video (plugin fail last time  )

http://www.tzr3ma.com/videos/turn-at-flywheel.wmv
http://www.tzr3ma.com/videos/Ignition-tester-first-start.wmv

[Louis]

Yes I'm lecture at Master of Sciences level in a French school of engineering.

Ok, that good to know.
Getting teach by teacher from the Master of Sciences level school of engineering
My parent's will be proud on me

Sadly have a small sad back
Did not changes any wires on my ignition tester engine, but it refuses to rev any futher now.
The only thing I did was mounting the pickup.
(of course have removed it, just to see if it changes any thing. But no. pickup is not the problem)

Have made a test setup with a 12V battery and the regulator, so the device could charge a battery and not stores/damage his own stator.
It is working it charges about 14V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3TwC-Y0HR8&feature=youtu.be

Sadly du to low rmp can't read the tacho, (think it will be spinning about 2000/25000rpm)

Did manage to capture the in-coming and out-coming signal
In-coming


Out-coming


Do you guys have any idea what it could be that the electro motor is not spinning that fast any more?
-Fields??
-contact brush

Working on this problem now

[Louis]

Have solved the RPM problem.
It seems that the charging system was to much for the electro engine to Handel
Disconnected that system, and the RPM is on the move again.
(makes you wonder how much HP charging is costing you )


Still not completely satisfied.
The ypvs servomotor and (3ma) tacho still don't work correct.

Investigating what problem that could be.

Captured the RPM (ignition/tacho) signal (with side standard out)


Normal RPM signal (Capacitor Discharging?)

[tzr-v4]

The charging system make some forces to appear on the rotor (magnetic field + induction current...).

On road bike the maximum speed with light on is lower than with lights off  .

You can try to replace the battery by a big capacitor (Battery eliminator).
This will give a smoother 12V on your loom and the tacho will work properly and the YPVS too (but not cleaning cycles).

So with the battery you could test the YPVS signals (3 signals) during cleaning cycle and the TPS signal.

With the capacitor you could test the ignition signals :
- signal coming from the pickup (input for the IC)
- signal driving the capacitor discharge (output for the IC)