The IC inside the CDI

[Louis]

Remember that 3MA like 2MA are 2 lobes flywheel... (waisted sparks)
One spark every 180°.

Yes I remember . My thoughts drifted away when putting a 100 Hz signal on pin 22 to calibrate the (4dl) tacho on that.
But after walking around with it, it became clear this was not correct. (As one rotation would give two pulses to the IC.)

Have found working 3ma tach and it all becomes clear.

I could make an Arduino based signal generator with a PC program.
Picture to follow 

This could be handy by reading out the pv opening cycles
Is this easy to make?, or are the electronic parts expensive?

The idea behind my testing machine was to use a scope and read/write the ignition curves that where stored on the IC.
But now with a Max off 4500rpm this will not be the case.
So for now it will be used for generating the power needed to supply the 00 and 01 cdi's
In order to get the right signals to measure.

Will measure the TPS sensor. When exactly it jumps to another curve.
Could be handy when you want to setup the TPs correctly.
(So it will pick the right curve with the right throttle position)

[tzr-v4]

For the easy electronic, you only need buy an arduino uno board + USB cable if you don't have one.
Some little wire to jump from the arduino board to other electronics...

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardUno

20€ + VAT on the arduino shop http://store.arduino.cc/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=195
Maybe you could find some in Netherlands directly.



I'll do the Arduino code and PC program too.
See below the wiring
- from Arduino output (pickup signal) Yellow wire to CDI input
- green is Ground level (need to be the same on both electronics)

[Louis]

I'll do the Arduino code and PC program too.
See below the wiring
- from Arduino output (pickup signal) Yellow wire to CDI input
- green is Ground level (need to be the same on both electronics)

You do that also
Electronica seems to be your thing

Have found something that may be interesting, it could  have a influence if the Arduino will work on this setup or not.

Was not giving up that easily , have tried something else tonight. But now it is getting to complicated.
The idea was:
Let the ignition tester generate the high voltage needed to power up the cdi
Use the external adjustable electro motor with pickup to generate the pulse needed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8-gBRk4_eA

This setup works half.
It seems that the high voltage given by the ignition tester walks hand in hand with the pickup signal
Meaning a low( high voltage) from the tester with a high rpm from the phuls motor the cdi can't control.
Same for a low rpm (from pulse motor) will not work correct with a high rpm from the ignition tester.
Hope you can follow me on this

Think in short terms:
The high voltage coils (given voltage to the cdi) needs to be in a certain rpm range to work with the pickup frequency
(perhaps the charging time for the capacitor will be to short from a high phuls rpm with with a low voltage rpm)

Conclusion: if I wanted to use my setup to read out the ignition curve. Will need a much more powerful engine that can produce the rpm needed to pull through the resistance the high voltage coils are given.

That's way it is easy to work with a 3ma-10 cdi as it does not need a high voltage circuit to work. 12V is all it needs

[tzr-v4]

Ok little progress on my side with the iCP12 board.
Been able to monitor the simulated pickup signal made by the arduino board.
But not yet a firmware to test on Louis setup 

[tzr-v4]

A bit of progress today... 

Been able to :
- upload from the USB a new firmware : blinking leds so bootloader is working with my code
- upload a firmware which communicates with the PC using USB

[Louis]

Hey Olivier,

That is good news, (if I'm right) this means that your program should run on the ipc12
Another step towards victory

Will try to capture the pickup signal on the IPC12 this weekend.

[tzr-v4]

Yes Louis.....

Next firmware will be to test YPVS valve cycles for cleaning when a iCP12 pin is set to 5V and stops cleaning when set to 0V.

For this your setup will need to have
- the 12V with the battery or PC power supply
- 3 wires for the YPVS
- 1 wire for the ground 0V
- 1 wire for the VCC 5V

I'll do the test with my FZR400R exup servomotor and my own motor driver board too.

[tzr-v4]

Think in short terms:
The high voltage coils (given voltage to the cdi) needs to be in a certain rpm range to work with the pickup frequency
(perhaps the charging time for the capacitor will be to short from a high phuls rpm with with a low voltage rpm)

Conclusion: if I wanted to use my setup to read out the ignition curve. Will need a much more powerful engine that can produce the rpm needed to pull through the resistance the high voltage coils are given.

That's way it is easy to work with a 3ma-10 cdi as it does not need a high voltage circuit to work. 12V is all it needs

Do you use a 12V power supply or Battery ?
From memory, the HT coil in the stator are only there for charging the capacitor in the CDI.
So effectively, the rpm of the rotor will give a power associated with the energy demand of the capacitor.

You could try :
- a 12V supply (battery)
- spin the rotor with the 220v motor
- generate the pickup signal with your dremel setup.

Give feedback on this.

[Louis]

You could try :
- a 12V supply (battery)
- spin the rotor with the 220v motor
- generate the pickup signal with your dremel setup.

That is exactly what I have been doing.

-12V external power supply (power station)
-spinning testing machine to generate the ht voltage needed to power the cdi
-external motor with gives the pickup signal.

Situation 1
I let my ignition tester rotate 4500rpm witch generate a certain voltage to the CDI
If i let my pickup signal motor rotate high rpm, 12000rpm and above the tacho is sweeping and the sound off the plug is different.

Situation 2
I let my ignition tester rotate 4500rpm.
Drop my pickup signal motor below 4500rpm the tacho is sweeping/vibrating and also the sound off the plug is different.

Situation 3
I let my ignition tester run 1500rpm.
Push the pickup signal motor to high rpm, same problem/sound

I thought that it has something to do with the time the capacitor is charging and discharging.
Can image that a low charge coming from the ht coils with a high rpm from the pickup signal.
The capacitor has a hart time to give the right voltage/power to the plug

But can have it wrong of course
Hope this make sense to you

[jools]

do you still have the pickup connected to the CDI? if so it could be that the superimposed pickup signal is out of synch with what the CDI is expecting and it is trying to fire more than once on that plug maybe?

[Louis]

Hello Jools,

do you still have the pickup connected to the CDI?

Don't know exactly what you mean
You mean that the CDI could have another possibility off measuring the rpm?
(don't know if the HT coils give a certain pulls that is translated on the CDI to some kind off rpm)

I have the pickup signal coming from a separated source (external motor)
So deferentially the don't run synch.
Still think that the high rpm pickup signal is trying to get more sparks from the capacitor then it could give.
(When the capacitor is charged with a low rpm)
But this would just weaken the sparks because the capacitor can't charge it fully for the next spark.
(getting back on the charging time)

Will try to get some values on the ICP12 this weekend, although need to make some parts ready to for the powder coater

[jools]

what I meant was do you have all the wires from the stator plugs connected to the CDI ?

I know this is a 3ma, I'm only familiar with the 3xv at the moment, but there would normally be 3 white wires for the power which go to the regulator returning a red and Black wire which is your 12v feed. the ignition pickup wires are white/green or white/black or whatever colour is used, and these trigger wires would normally go to the CDI.

What I was suggesting is that if these trigger wires are connected to the CDI and you are also using a slave trigger signal there could be a problem if they are not synchronised ie you have the flywheel spinning at 4500rpm but your slave trigger set at a different frequency?
Not having a wiring diagram to look at doesn't help me.

[Louis]

Ah, now I know witch direction you want to go.

No, don't have all the wires connected. Have mentioned that I have  removed the charging system (not by not connecting it but completely removed the copper wirings from the spools) this in order to let the engine rev more. (the charging system cost to much power for my electro motor to Handel)

Only the HT coils are connected to charge the cdi (capacitor) (3ma can run without a battery)
And I have a external 12V power supply to power up the rest of the cdi (ypvs, airjets etc)

[tzr-v4]

Been able to drive the YPVS using the iCP12 board.

Louis can test it on his bench and no need to have the rotor moving just 12v to the CDI.

[Louis]

Louis can test it on his bench and no need to have the rotor moving just 12v to the CDI.

Then I probably need a small explanation, cause have the ypvs connected and that is it
(Can i control it manually?)

Can only see the YPVS sensor move, when rpm drops/rises
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSeN_viwwl8&feature=youtu.be


Have connected quit a few thinks.


*Black - All mass wires from IC to IPC12
*Red - YPVS sensor
*gray - TPS sensor
*Blue - YPVS motor
*yellow - YPVS motor
*purple - Pickup signal
*green - outgoing ignition signal (not connected)

Some more info here
http://www.tzr3ma.com/connecting-the-ipc12.html