Zeeltronic Programmable Ignition

[Edd]

Hi Guys;

I have bought Pauls zeel which he programmed for me with same setup he is running on his 3ma. I have now calibrated my pv's and tps. Big improvement I mus say. Next step is to understand the degrees advance and how I can play around and test diffrent maps.

Edd

[Warwick]

Personally, I'd concentrate on the jetting, get it as good as it can be with the stock ignition and get some 'base' dyno readings using the stock box (it's good for low 60s Hp at least). And then fit the prog ignition, set it up to match the stock power curve on the dyno and then tweak it from there? That way, you'll be starting from a solid, and, importantly, safe ignition curve baseline rather than starting off by reinventing the wheel?  Makes sense to me in any case  . Best of luck with it, however you proceed . 

[Paul]

you can try this on PV

0% 7500
100% 9500

interested to hear what you think

[EEKNOWS]

you spend time on the pv curve on the dyno, look at the flats and dips in the curve and adjust accordingly.

[Edd]

Hi Guys;

Unfortunately it will take time to re wire to refit the stock cdi and i fancy taking a change before I go that route. I want to enter the stock cdi curve Louis has posted but I see it is a estimate . So before I fit the stock cdi I want to first understand the advace that it is set at. I see Paul has put 15 degrees in at all rev intervals with a static angle of 43 degrees. Is this atandard for all 3ma's or can I change settings here and what does it mean.

Paul I have dropped two main jet sizes It is ok without the airbox fitted but once I fit the airbox to rich have not drilled holes as per your setup thats the next step.

Edd

[Paul]

No boet
I gather you have now switched the TPS on.
I had it OFF when I loaded it for you because you did not have a programmer to calibrate TPS.
If you look now in each of the 3 curves you have 0-33% etc. you will see one of them has my curve. If you switch the TPS off again you will see my curve comes back. Because TPS off only uses 1 curve. Please leave your TPS off until your bike is running properly. It is doing nothing anyway as you have fixed air jets.

[Edd]

Hi Paul;

I have calibrated the pv and tps. I will switch it off and see what happens. What are the angles and degrees all about?

I see Paul has put 15 degrees in at all rev intervals with a static angle of 43 degrees. Is this standard for all 3ma's or can I change settings here and what does it mean.

I understand that you increase hp as you advance the timing; firing before tds.

Edd

[Paul]

are you going to picisa (or however you spell it) 1&2 Sept?
we need a few beers and to talk this all through
did you get a cable for your cdi? can you download what it is now with calibrated TPS and PV?
if you want to use the TPS make all 3 curves for different throttle positions the same as the one i loaded
that is why your bike was not impressive as it is working like a YZ250 after 33% TPS with a flat curve of 15%. not good. buy a scooter

[Edd]

Hi Paul;

Got the cable got a working PC in the garage all set to play down loaded everything I can and a bit more . Just need to understand what I am playing with and what the outcome is going to be.
Unfortunately I will be playing in a golf competition on that weekend Like warwick says if we can get ash's forum data I can just follow your post there and be done with it.

Edd

[Paul]

golf...... i don't know, what a %&*^&%^%$^^ing sport

download your CDI with PV and TPS calibrated and email it to me, I sort it out!

[maccas]

I've got to add my experience here even though it is not with a 3ma.

More advance DOES NOT necessarily mean more horsepower. Generally more advance will equal a holed piston/seized engine/expensive bill to pay.

You only need to run as much advance as the engine NEEDS/WANTS. Just because an engine can tolerate a certain amount of advance does not mean that it is the best advance for the engine. More ignition advance raises the combustion chamber temperature. Too much and thats when problems start occurring.

I have made this mistake and I don't want people to go down the same path and blow up an engine like I did. I programmed a TZ 250 curve into my 3xv which has a hell of a lot of advance everywhere apart from close to peak power where it comes down to a more 'normal' value. The reason that the TZ needs so much advance in its ignition curve is that it is very inefficient at low revs and before it comes on the pipe.

A 3xv is much more efficient than a TZ so requires much less advance to make good power (sadly I have no experience with the 3ma as yet). This is where the dyno is needed as you can see the stability of the engine temperature as changes to the ignition curve are made. On several occasions with my 3xv we have found that retarding the ignition by a substantial amount GAINED power and made the engine run much cooler.

I would do as Warwick says and program the zeel to match a stock 3ma box and then make small alterations from there. The factory ignition curve is like that for a reason, it will give good power while not putting too much heat into the engine. The top end of the ignition curve may not be ideal as Yamaha may well have programmed it to prevent high revs from being attained to prevent warranty claims from over revving engines. The stock ignition curve is a compromise between reliability and performance. I bet you that the curve for best reliable power is not many degrees away from the stock curve.

Just be careful mate, it doesn't take a lot to blow an engine from too much advance, especially when coupled with jetting slightly on the lean side.

Dan

[Neal]

Yip - 4 degrees too much advance can equal 4mm hole in piston in 4 seconds 

[maccas]

If your jetting is lean aswell it can 

[Edd]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it I wanted to say more leaner with advance but it didnt make sence so I went for more Hp. However my question is still how is it measured and what does static angle mean. I want to understand the mathematics behind it. How is it calculated, I know on ash's forum Louis once showed a degree wheel he fitted to theflywheel side of the crank to measure these angles. I didnt pay much attention as I was not going that route at that point in time but Paul peruaded me

Paul is loading his file for me which is good to get the bike up and running in no time Thanks Paul. However I need to understand how this all works. I intend to have all the wires on that zeel connected and doing a job

Edd

[Paul]

Edd
The static angle is correct for 3MA
You check it with a timing light by programming in a flat curve and measuring that set degree with a dial gauge. That is another topic and you don't need to go there. I only ventured that road when the zeel didn't work on the 3xv.
I say rather go the dyno route.