SUGO CDI for Borut... (ignition curves)

[maccas]

Yeah sorry to throw confusion into the mix everyone. It's just after seeing a 3xv with stock flywheel, tz top end and pipes, and 4dp-00 box make less power everywhere than with a 3xv-00 box then destroy itself it made me think about what is happening.

When we measured it, the advance was around 35 degrees at low rpms and was still 25 getting close to peak power. It had to be that the 4dp-00 flywheel at least had a much lower static advance than the 3xv flywheel.

Dan

[Warwick]

Yeah sorry to throw confusion into the mix everyone. It's just after seeing a 3xv with stock flywheel, tz top end and pipes, and 4dp-00 box make less power everywhere than with a 3xv-00 box then destroy itself it made me think about what is happening.

When we measured it, the advance was around 35 degrees at low rpms and was still 25 getting close to peak power. It had to be that the 4dp-00 flywheel at least had a much lower static advance than the 3xv flywheel.

Dan

Yes, those are uncomfortably high numbers, aren't they. My set-up was a 3YL top end (modded heads were somewhere between 11-12 cc fitted I think?). As noted, no idea about ignition numbers with the 4DP-10 ignition and stock SP rotor and pick-ups, sadly, but I never had any top end woes with it (what fuel was the blown TZ topper using? It'd be wanting AVGAS with stock heads, wouldn't it?).  Mine saw mainly road use (bit of comedy touring!), but did a couple of track days on it too. Crank went eventually (pre-mix, long downhill road run, mind on other things...). Still have all the bits somewhere I think.

[maccas]

Heads were opened up for use with super unleaded fuel.

Just seemed very odd to me. I wonder if the 92 and 93 tz flywheels differed significantly.

Juergen,

If you use the zeeltronic to find the static advance of whatever set up you are using, you can then apply that to the 3xv cdi's.

It doesn't really matter where the pick up is, or where the lobe is. Set the static advance so that programmed advance equals real measured advance (using 20 degree flat curve). Make a note of the static advance figure (say it was 62 degrees for example).

Then test 3xv cdi without changing flywheel or pick up position. The output ignition curve then simply needs moving up or down to match the 65 degree static advance on ALL 3xv flywheels.

If static advance measured was 62, then the extracted ignition curve would need advancing by 3 degrees. Does that make sense?

Dan

[maccas]

For the tz, the flywheel has to be set to match the initial advance set up in the manual in order to make sure the front of the lobe is in the correct place, as it was set in the factory.

3xv is easier as all the flywheels have 65 btdc from front of lobe and pick ups are fixed.

Dan

[41juergen]

Dan, I think we are on the same page now... As you said, as long as I can use the Zeel to "calibrate" the initial setup all CDI data higher then idle are still ok.
I was struggling with the idle data from the 3XV-00 /-10/-40 CDI's. But yesterday I went through the manuals again and saw that the 3XV1 and 2 have different flywheels (which I though is not). So now I would only need a LKZ14 flywheel to see how different the rear lobe is in relation to the TZ one I used. It would be good to see when adjusting a TZ to connect a Zeel and see if it shows the same base advance of 65°CA...
About the TZ flywheels I think a least the diameter changed from '92 to '93, but from what I have seen the 4DP2 and my "small" diameter flywheel have the same lobe setup.
Jool, yes I have send you a PM with my address... It would be good if you can also send me the rotor and stator to verify what I stated above.

[41juergen]

Got the -75 CDI from Yorkee and here are the results. The ignition timing is as high as you would expect from a AVGAS setup....

[Yuri]

Grate job Juergen !!
Now Warwick must just send his 3xv70 cdi then we have them all

[casal-fan]

Also missing the 60 CDI
Already have Juergens adress. Sending mine to him next week.
Interesting bugger the 60.
Bellow a pic. of the 00 and the 60, from the manual.

[ybk]

Quite similar to 9A, although a bit more extreme..



Have we reached consensus in terms of the actual timing values? As far as I understand all the curve shapes as well as their relative position to each other are correct. It's just that they may need to be transposed up or down a few values maybe?

[41juergen]

I believe that all data higher then idle rpms are correct as the idle is determined by the end of the rear lobe (which is different between the 3 different TZR flywheels). But as the TZ flywheel I use has the same start and end of the lobe as the 3XV1 only the idle data for the -00 CDI are definitely correct, the others I would like to clarify. So does somebody have a flywheel with the marking TLKZ14 what I can get loaned to check this?
cheers
Juergen

[Yuri]

Late in the SP race series standard head sizes was only allowed. I think that is the reason the 3xv75 has more advance than the 3xv9A   

[zoomzoom]

Also missing the 60 CDI
Already have Juergens adress. Sending mine to him next week.
Interesting bugger the 60.
Bellow a pic. of the 00 and the 60, from the manual.

Im running a 60cdi in my track bike, it made the most poer out of all the cdi's i tested, be interesting to see figures myself.

[Yuri]

Also missing the 60 CDI
Already have Juergens adress. Sending mine to him next week.
Interesting bugger the 60.
Bellow a pic. of the 00 and the 60, from the manual.

Im running a 60cdi in my track bike, it made the most poer out of all the cdi's i tested, be interesting to see figures myself.

Your head volumes are so small it makes the timing advance
I heard you are running a 0.6mm squish

If you install a sugo cdi the timing is too advance...

[zoomzoom]

Also missing the 60 CDI
Already have Juergens adress. Sending mine to him next week.
Interesting bugger the 60.
Bellow a pic. of the 00 and the 60, from the manual.

Im running a 60cdi in my track bike, it made the most poer out of all the cdi's i tested, be interesting to see figures myself.

Your head volumes are so small it makes the timing advance
I heard you are running a 0.6mm squish

If you install a sugo cdi the timing is too advance...

You heard wrong Yuri, whoever told you that im running 0.6mm squish knows nothing, the squish was 0.8mm (Y) 

[casal-fan]

Zomzom, belive me, I have spendt quite a lot of time looking at your research