Looking at buying 3XV2

[ybk]

Are you sure I thought the zeeltronic controlled the air solenoid and also has the capability to control the (electronic) power jet.

No sure I'm pretty sure the zeel does the air solenoids on RGV's so it should be OK for the 3xv as well. I don't think we have a zeel map that inudes the air solenoids at this stage?

Juergen did map the air jets on the stock boxes when he did all the CDI's so I guess we can map it to the zeel?

Here is the -60 for example:



I'm quite intrigued by the dual cdi since I have both already and the cdi connectors are available at https://kojaycat.co.uk. That combined with a spare loom you can make a nice set up without butchering the original loom.

[mellorp]

Something like this

http://www.characterdata.co.uk/TZR%20Manual/3xvcurve3.zee

00:
01: PDCI-20V <device ver>
02: 00 <boot ver>
03: 20.020611 <software ver>
04: 0000 <data ver>
05: 65 <static angle>
06: 12000 <rev limit>
07: 30 <delay comp>
08: 1 <pulse per rev>
09: 1 <ign setting nr>
0a: 19 28.0 28.0 24.5 21 18.5 17.5 16.0 11.5 10 10 10 <ign angle #1 TPS 0-33%>
0b: 17 29 24 19 17.5 14 10 10 10 10 15 15 <ign angle #2 TPS 0-33%>
0c: 19 28.5 28.5 25 21.5 19.0 18 16.5 12.5 10 10 10 <ign angle #1 TPS 66%>
0d: 17.5 29.5 24.5 19.5 18 14.5 10 17.7 13.5 10 15 15 <ign angle #2 TPS 66%>
0e: 19 29 29 25.5 22 19.5 18.5 17 13 10 10 10 <ign angle #1 TPS 100%>
0f: 18 30 25 20 18.5 15 10 17.7 13.5 10.5 15 15 <ign angle #2 TPS 100%>
10: 2000 3000 5000 6500 8000 9000 9500 10000 11000 12000 12000 13000 <ign Rpm #1 TPS 0-33%>
11: 2000 3500 6600 8300 9000 9500 10000 10000 11000 12000 12000 13000 <ign Rpm #2 TPS 0-33%>
12: 2000 3000 5000 6500 8000 9000 9500 10000 11000 12000 12000 13000 <ign Rpm #1 TPS 66%>
13: 2000 3500 6600 8300 9000 9500 10000 10000 11000 12000 12000 13000 <ign Rpm #2 TPS 66%>
14: 2000 3000 5000 6500 8000 9000 9500 10000 11000 12000 12000 13000 <ign Rpm #1 TPS 100%>
15: 2000 3500 6600 8300 9000 9500 1000 10000 11000 12000 12000 13000 <ign rev #2 TPS 100%>
16: 10 7 <nr ign points>
17: 1 <enable TPS>
18: 192 <TPS close>
19: 882 <TPS open>
1a: 1800 1900 3100 3200 4300 4400 6100 6200 <duty sol rev TPS 0-33%>
1b: 1800 1900 3100 3200 4300 4400 6100 6200 <duty sol rev TPS 34-66%>
1c: 1800 1900 3100 3200 4300 4400 11200 11300 <duty sol rev TPS 67-100%>
1d: 0 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 <duty sol power TPS 0-33%>
1e: 0 100 100 0 0 100 100 0 <duty sol power TPS 34-66%>
1f: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 100 <duty sol power TPS 67-100%>
20: 11500 <shift light>
21: 70 <kill time>
22: 0 <smart shift>
23: 0 <TCT mode>
24: 0 <ign sw>
25: 0 <advance>
26: 0 <advance 1>
27: 0 <advance 2>
28: 1900 5500 5 100 <power jet 1>
29: 7000 13000 66 100 <power jet 2>
2a: 1 <solenoid output type>
2b: 1 <pv setting nr>
2c: 185 <pv close>
2d: 815 <pv open>
2e: 2 <pv deviation>
2f: 1 <pv test>
30: 8 8 8 8 8 <nr pv points>
31: 100 0 0 30 40 60 80 100 <pv angle #1>
32: 100 0 25 30 40 60 80 100 <pv angle #2>
33: 100 20 30 40 50 60 80 100 <pv angle #3>
34: 0 20 30 40 50 60 80 100 <pv angle #4>
35: 100 30 40 50 60 70 90 100 <pv angle #5>
36: 900 1000 5000 6100 6500 7300 8200 9000 <pv rev #1>
37: 900 1000 6100 6900 7300 8000 8900 9700 <pv rev #2>
38: 900 6500 7500 8000 8500 9000 9500 10000 <pv rev #3>
39: 900 8000 8500 9000 9500 1000 10300 10750 <pv rev #4>
3a: 900 8000 8500 9000 9500 1000 10300 11000 <pv rev #5>
3b: 0 <pv sw>

[Warwick]

This thread is going a bit off topic, isn't it?  .  A 3XV2 doesn't have any oil solenoids as noted earlier. The oil pump is the simple cable controlled type that receives no direct input from the ignition, but is linked to PV position by cable. 

If using a sugo ignition, the logical thing to do would be to follow the Sugo carb set-up I'd think? Which includes ditching the air solenoids too. The Sugo box replaces air solenoid control function with the powerjet control - the same physical pins on the boxes are used.

The alternative would be to use a Zeel of course, but I think the OP has the Sugo box already to hand so that might have a bearing on choices?

Either way, the main work will be in the setting-up, rather than simply fitting the parts I expect. 

[busa1300]

  Thanks for the ideas guys.
A Zeel is still a possibility, but I do want to try the Sugo 3XV-80 out first.
Since I will be running SPR air snorkels with the SP airbox, and oil pump, I will not be able to go directly by the kit manual.
I would imagine that using the airbox will need slightly smaller jets/settings, and only fuel going through the jets instead of premix will need smaller jetting as well since the fuel will have less viscosity?  ? Compared to the kit settings

Thanks for the Zeel program, wish I had 3D of the Sugaya R2.....Zeel only supplies a 100% curve.

[41juergen]

And be aware, when going the full SUGO specs you need to run AVGAS as fuel....

[Steveog]

Busa - Down here we need to be an "insider" to get AvGas. It is not sold to the general public. We do have a access to 110 leaded Sunoco Race Gas sold only in containers. About $10USD/gallon.

Perhaps someone with proper experience and some knowledge of chemistry can detail the difference. What does AvGas have that makes it a "must" for the Sugo kit? Seems that avoiding pre-ignition/detonation would be the goal of higher octane gas. 110 octane would seem to be a good option.

Steve

[busa1300]

I was getting AV gas from a small airport close to work.
The guy told me how to get gas out of the pump....basically fake that you have a plane....had various things you needed to input into the pump like tail numbers and so on....
But that was too much work....so now.....

I have race gas at a pump about 15 miles from me, close to the dragstrip.
I use 20-25% race gas mixed with premium for my RZV with advanced Zeel ignition map, and my VJ23 with the Sugaya map.

[SeaR1ck]

So do you carry race gas with you when you go on rides?  because it doesn't sound like you go on very long rides. What would you do if you were on a ride and was low on gas because 99% of gas stations don't sale race gas at the pumps.

[busa1300]

I have to admit that I do not carry extra race gas with me when riding my bikes.
And I will also admit I did not buy this TZR to go on long rides.....

I bought this TZR because it is a bad ass little 2 stroke screamer....as well as a long term investment.
If I want to go on a long ride on a 2 stroke I will use my RZV because it's gas tank is about twice the size of the TZR...
.....and a long stroker ride for me is maybe 200 miles...

Or I'll take my KTM so my wife can enjoy some similar madness 

[mellorp]

Investment. A 2 stroke. You are having a laugh 

Buy it, fix it, ride it, enjoy it. Don't expect to make more than you spend on it......

Anyway soap box away, back to the 3XV2 thread :-)

[busa1300]

Investment. A 2 stroke. You are having a laugh 

Long term.....it should be worth more by the time my family has my estate sale....

 

If using a sugo ignition, the logical thing to do would be to follow the Sugo carb set-up I'd think? Which includes ditching the air solenoids too. The Sugo box replaces air solenoid control function with the powerjet control - the same physical pins on the boxes are used.

If running SPR airboxes, would I basically try to start off with something in between what the Sugo kit calls for and what the stock SPR has for jetting?

[Warwick]

 
If using a sugo ignition, the logical thing to do would be to follow the Sugo carb set-up I'd think? Which includes ditching the air solenoids too. The Sugo box replaces air solenoid control function with the powerjet control - the same physical pins on the boxes are used.

If running SPR airboxes, would I basically try to start off with something in between what the Sugo kit calls for and what the stock SPR has for jetting?

In mentioning 'following the Sugo set-up' I was thinking more in terms of the kit slides, powerjets, needles and needle jets really.

Whatever you do in terms of the key internals, the final main jetting, power jets and pilots will be determined by a host of engine and environmental factors too of course, so can only sensibly be arrived at by testing.

The Sugo set-up assumes open carbs and Avgas, so you'll need to experiment a bit to find what works for you if running the airboxes.  It's all part of the fun!   

[busa1300]

Got a better tail for the bike....far from perfect, but I can be seen in public now and feel ok 

Yea....picture quality sucks still...too cheap to buy a new phone.

EDIT....better pics....I used wifes phone

[Steveog]

So, Busa. You have a grand collection of 2T's, your shop looks immaculate, you make me proud to be a Hoosier (don't bother looking that up world-wide friends. We don't even know why that name stuck to those of us from Indiana, USA), but...you can't afford a new phone? Hmmmmm.

HA. You know I'm joking, but...I look forward to seeing your work and bikes. "Get it together, man". (Easy Rider, 1969)

Merry Christmas.

Steve

"The 3xv2 looks great."

[busa1300]

So, Busa. You have a grand collection of 2T's,  but...you can't afford a new phone? Hmmmmm.

Well, I have the choice of spending $700 or more on a phone....or $700 on bikes.....
No choice really, as the bikes win every time 
Also.....wife, kids, and grandkids drained a large chunk of my projects finances as well for Christmas....
....but making dreams tangible has its price 
The smile or scream when opening is worth it though...

Merry Christmas as well....


I forgot to say....
I just watched Easy Rider again about 2 weeks ago...
How times have changed