Looking at buying 3XV2

[ybk]

A little scruffy but overall a good bike! Looks like everything is there. It kinda looks like it has the bigger air intake boot on the top carb so that means carbs are good. Post up a project thread when you get it 

[Yuri]

The best will be to take photos when you get it home
The 3xv is the 250 with the most sp special parts
It was also the most expensive at 900000yen new

[busa1300]

 
I will definitely photograph the project from beginning to end.
And to record what the SP specific parts look like.
It helps when it takes a year from start to finish (remembering routing of cables and hoses and brackets and....so on)

[yellowandfast]

Ive got a 1991 3xv, but mines a bit of a bitsa. its the standard R frame with the SP motor fitted.
im running the 36mm carbs on stock porting cylinders with jakal/taodo pipes. but i still only run the standard -00 cdi.
The redistricting of the carbs is what took me the longest to figure out.  But ill sum it up in a sentence for you to save you some time. 36mm-round bore tm's, variable air jet blocks removed, the inlet port on the carbs must be blocked. then removed the brass ball and drill and tap a 4mm x.7 thread, so you can fit a 2.0 size air jet. after that its just like jetting in any other carb. I think off the top of my head i have 35 pilots, 410 mains with 55 power jets, if you want needle/needle jet numbers just let me know, i believe my clip is in the leanest position. I did however also need to change the factory carb out for a pingel unit with a universal adapter plate you dont have to weld on your tank.

Ive got lots of RDs, DTs, and a Gen 2 Vmax that has been tuned by Tim Nash, so Im well versed in bikes/ 2strokes, and honestly the 3xv is without a doubt the best handling, lightest feeling bike I have ever ridden. It is obscene how quickly they accelerate. I have yet to dyno the bike but honestly I dont really care, I can pull away from my brothers heavily modded RD 350 that only weighs 300lbs like hes standing still and his bike is supposedly 50hp.

[busa1300]

     I am hoping the bike still has it's 36 carbs on it.
Since it has aftermarket exhaust, I will be interested in seeing how it was tuned for them in Japan.....
....(as they seem to know most of the tricks)
Depending on what ignition box it has, I very likely will put a Zeel on it.
That way I can try and use as many circuits in the carbs as possible all the way through it's throttle travel....
Since the Zeel appears that it can control many of the carb variables.
Hope to be going to the dyno next month to get the Zeel on my RZV powervalve curved dialed in, and check for my my A/F ratio.

[Scotty4321]

If you fit a zeal the outputs usually operAte the electronic power jets. As yellow and fast said the variable air jets (vaj) are junked.
In each vaj there are 2 solenoid operated jets and one always open jet.
If you disconnect the vaj only the central jet passes air. You can lose the vaj and just put the jet in the pipe so they are easy to change when at the dyno then when sorted make permanent as per yellow.
I had no luck with the power jets, just could not get fuel through them quick enough. Bike goes well without them.
Definitely junk the std cdi and don't bother with sugo cdi unless you have all the other sugo kit and want to run race fuel.  The zeal
will do it all and can be adjusted to all states of tune.

[busa1300]

 
If the fuel could not go through quick enough because of restricted original fuel tap?
Does the Sugo CDI require a dedicated harness to match it up to the bike?
Or is the harness used to eliminate all the street equipment? I'm guessing basically like the Suzuki kit SAPC boxes?
Although for the RGV the Sugaya box is more street worthy...best of both worlds. Does the 3XV have something like that?
Looking through the pictures on the auction again, I believe I see the top of the power jet for rear carb...I'm to the understanding that only the SP had those...?
Still has the original 36's if that is the case. 

[yellowandfast]

Yes only the 36mm had those powerjets.
There are 2 types of 36mm tm carbs. The round bore (early) which I'm using on my bike, and tge oval bore, ( I have, but not fitted). They say the ovals are better for street use with the same topend power compared to the straight 36mm bore carbs.
The powerjets are electronically activated to cut fuel at the top for more over rev. I run my open all the time. And my bike signs off at 11.5-12.  The powerjets pulls fuel from the float bowl so if the powerjets were starving for fuel, everything was also. The purpose of the powerjets is to be able to run a big carb with a small main on a small displacement engine and keep a very responsive low-mid range. The dump fuel in at 3/4 throttle and above.

[Scotty4321]

I don't have any. but believe the oval carbs are 34mm and were used when the 36mm carbs were banned for racing, probably because the Yams were winning. SPs just had the round 36, the 34 were later and on SPR I think.
All good on the power jets. Don't know why but by the time they were turned on and the fuel was up to them they were shut off again!
Check the power jet jets as they may be blank with no hole in them (need to take them apart to check).
I think the sugo box fits straight on a road harness but you have to mess with the wiring to swap over to powerjets. The sugo harness drops all the street stuff. I have a sugo cdi if you are set on one, I was talked out of using it, the timing is for race fuel. Cheers Scotty

[SeaR1ck]

You have the 36mm carbs off the sp 91 n 92 with the power jets. Then you have the 32mm off the sp 93 n 94 with power jet. Then you have the 32mm tri oval bore with power jet off the 95.

There's also 38mm carbs off the tz 250 with power jet.

[ybk]

Does the Sugo CDI require a dedicated harness to match it up to the bike?
Or is the harness used to eliminate all the street equipment? I'm guessing basically like the Suzuki kit SAPC boxes?

Doesn't require the Sugo harness, plugs into the stock one. The air solenoids are discarded (sugo carb kit eliminates them), powerjets are enabled, speedo restrictor is disabled along with sidestand cutout switch. The Sugo harness re-locates the CDI to the front of the bike and substitutes the battery for a capacitor (have't used the sugo harness myself though).

I still think the the Sugo CDI's are useful, especially on the early non solenoid 2t pumps (which gets disabled by the later model sugo box). A -70('91) or -80('92) would still work on your bike just fine. I have a -80 on my 3XV5 frankenstein bike (3xv5 and 2 are pretty much the same bike) and it runs OK (ish). Running on pump petrol and it's done 2000 odd track km without grenading.

Have you seen the sugo curves?



From this thread: http://pure2strokespirit.net/forums/index.php?topic=679.0
The 7K was made for unleaded and you can see it's pretty much identical to the -80.

I might change my tune once I get a Zeel as well though, wouldn't mind playing around with different curves etc.

[busa1300]

  Thanks guys.
I did see those curves when I first considered a Zeel for the bike.
I was hoping there were some curves to start off with and then tune to fit the bike.
Are there any powervalve curves for the Zeel, or on off points for the powerjets?

Still trying to find some good curves to try on my RZV Zeel.

[mellorp]

Borut has a 3XV, so the plug and play map it comes with is pretty good. I had one 30 min session on a dyno to tweak the PV settings on the 3XVRS (Bulldog Boy now owns that bike). After that I just rode it and that bike goes like stink.

[Scotty4321]

There is already a massive thread debate about this!
It's fair to say this:
All motors are slightly different, in all sorts of ways, porting, compression, squish, head volumes, reeds, jetting etc etc
A sugo CDI will work best with the full sugo kit it was designed to work eg  with pipes, carb kit etc. There are head mods required and I believe it does use race fuel. If you haven't gone nuts on squish and use 99ron you are prob fine with one but it's never going to be optimum.
A zeel allows adjustment to get the best from whatever mods you've made or whatever state of tune you have.

I had a free sugo 70 cdi that came with my bike and never used it, favouring a zeel.
If you don't have one and need to buy something it is a no brainer. Apart from the fact the wiring diag that comes with the zeel has mistakes in the wiring for the powerjets.
Would love to see someone get a RGV duty air solenoid running on a 3XV. The 3xv and RGV Zeel is the same unit and so the functionality is there for it. If made to work the mixture could be set to whatever you wanted it to be at any revs making the power jets crude and redundant. The duty solenoid basically opens and closes really quickly you can change the ratio of time on and time off (pulse width modulation). I had a quick  go at the dyno but run out of time.

Phil was lucky to get his bike sorted in 30mins that's for sure. If you experiment with jetting, ignition  timing, power valve timing and power jets it takes a good few hours minimum.
How much is a sugo cdi worth now? Cheers Scotty

[mellorp]

The 30 mins on the dyno was to do the final tweaks. As usual I rode round (on the road) for quite some time making changes using the real riding experience to set the bike up. Not only the engine but tyres, brakes, suspension. IMO you can have the best engine set up in the world and post all sorts of fancy dyno figures about power etc. but if you aren't comfy riding the bike, it handles like a shopping trolley and stops like a horse and cart, dyno time is totally pointless